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770204 - Conversation A - Calcutta
Prabhupāda: So to approach a puffed-up man, falsely puffed-up man... Just like sometimes father begs from the son, "Oh, my dear child, oh, you are very... Give me this hundred rupees' note. You'll spoil it." But the child does not know that father is not beggar. The child thinks, "My father is begging. All right. Take it." This is childish. We are not begging. It is a means to approach the rascal puffed-up men. We are not begging. And what is that? If I sell one book, is that begging?
Prabhupāda: Call them. Because people are falsely proud, therefore we approach them in a humble way. That also, we do not beg. We give something and take something, exchange, and give something which is appreciated by the greatest learned circle. And you are saying we are begging?
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes they don't give books. They just give a flower or...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also humble way. Unless...
Satsvarūpa: But mostly we do books.
Prabhupāda: Yes, mostly we do. Don't say about that flower. That may be. That is also not restricted. We can beg. In India still, high scholarly sannyāsīs, they beg. That is allowed. Bhikṣu. They like. Tridaṇḍī-bhikṣu. So begging in Vedic culture is neither illegal nor shameful—by the proper person. Begging is allowed to the brahmacārīs, to the sannyāsīs. And they like openly. Tridaṇḍī-bhikṣu. Bhikṣu means beggar.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here, the Indian culture, brahmacārī, sannyāsī and brāhmaṇa, they are allowed to beg alms. That is the Vedic culture. And the householders treat them as their own children. This is the relationship.
Satsvarūpa: But what if it's done in a culture where this is entirely different?
Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is their culture—hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable. This is your culture. Fighting between Protestant and Catholics, and bombing... People are terrified. They cannot go out in the street. This is your culture. And begging is bad. To keep the people, whole population, in terrified condition, that is very good, and if anyone in a humble way begs, that is bad. This is your culture. Vedic way allows the brahmacārī to beg just to learn humbleness, not beggar. Coming from very big, big family, all family, they practice it. This is not begging. This is to learn how to become humble and meek. And Christ said, "To the humble and meek, God is available." It is not begging. You do not know what is this culture. You have your own culture, devilish culture, to kill even one's own child. How you'll understand what is this culture? Am I right or wrong?
Satsvarūpa: You're right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Describe in letter. You have got fourth-class, tenth-class culture. How you'll understand the culture of becoming meek and humble?
Satsvarūpa: The District Attorney who was trying to prosecute us, Ādi-keśava, he reveals his strategy here because many lawyers say that we have a right to practice our religion. This is freedom of religion. He says...
Prabhupāda: Free... It is bona fide religion.
Satsvarūpa: He said, "But it's not a question of religion." He said, "What we're..." He said, "Mind control has nothing to do with religion. It's a question of individual free will. I don't think an individual in his right state of mind would allow someone else to control his mind. Just think of it in terms of hypnosis."
Prabhupāda: Mind control is everything.
Prabhupāda: You are trying also. Now they are also trying mind control, our men kidnapping by force. This is another mind control. They have already given up their mind to us, and you are trying to control his mind by force—deprogramming, kidnapping. Is it not mind control? Here his mind is already in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and by force you are trying to deviate him. Is it not mind control? And "Your mind control is good. My mind control is bad. That is your philosophy." So anyone, any rascal, will say, "My activities are good, and your activities are bad."
Satsvarūpa: Anyway, on the whole, this report, it's a little more in our favor than not, I noticed. The good things are...
Prabhupāda: No, these things should be protested. They must publish. Answer.
Satsvarūpa: They had a nice statement in here by the president of Boston temple, Aja, Aja dāsa.
Prabhupāda: But the name Kṛṣṇa is there.
Satsvarūpa: Oh, yeah, everywhere. "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) That is our advertisement. What is the heading?
Satsvarūpa: "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Puzzle."
Prabhupāda: Bās, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is there, that's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa is there. That is our triumph. We don't mind what the nonsense is speaking. We don't mind.
Satsvarūpa: Even this one lady, she's chanting in reverse. She says, "They'll do anything for Kṛṣṇa. That's bad, a bad thing," she said.
Prabhupāda: That is mind control, another mind control. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Since the rascals have taken up, he is speaking differently. That is mind control.
Satsvarūpa: So much for that.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's all. Now, photograph ours? No.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. This, yeah... (break) (end)