730504 - Morning Walk - Los Angeles
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (introducing recording) April 4, 1973, Los Angeles. (break) Brahmānanda Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to teach life from life, not from matter. Just against. And if you come out . . . not if. You must. Because we are standing on truth. They are standing on untruth.
Brahmānanda: There's one police car is coming.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Policeman: Good morning.
Prabhupāda: Good morning. That is police car?
Brahmānanda: No, he's the engineer, I think.
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma . . . (CC Adi 17.21). Sattvam . . . there is an Indian government slogan, "Sattvam eva . . ."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sattvam eva jayate?
Prabhupāda: Ah. So this is sattvaṁ jayate. It must come out triumphant. We have to try for. How foolishly they are propagating a false theory, and amongst themself self-complacent, getting prize, eulogization. What is this nonsense? Expose them. Bluffing. The bluffing should be exposed. What they are doing here?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they are doing here?
Śrutakīrti: I think they have been taking out those posts from the sand. A little dangerous.
Śrutakīrti: They're dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Dangerous? Why?
Śrutakīrti: When the water covers them, they can't be seen. Someone can get hurt on them.
Prabhupāda: So many dangers. (japa)
(break) So there are no more talks in your . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there is a talk coming next week. There is a lecturer coming next week. He's slightly connected with evolution. He's a Nobel Prize winner. He's from . . . (indistinct) . . . He's coming next week, next Wednesday. He is going to give two lectures. He is going to give two lectures in our department. He is going to talk on evolution, theory of evolution, the first lecture.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, evolution in general. And second lecture is on the cancer, the causes of cancer disease.
Brahmānanda: Do they know the cause of cancer?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there are several theories. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot.
Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science. (japa)
(break) . . . suffer from cancer. (laughter) They don't suffer from cancer. So they are in better position than the so-called human society. They are creating causes of cancer disease and then making research and taking Nobel Prize. How foolish society it is, this. Why you create the cause of cancer disease? You accept these four principles of life—no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex—there will be no cancer. There will be no cancer. You find out, those who are strictly on this line, they never suffer from cancer or any disease. Now take for example me. I have come here in this country for the last seven . . . seven years?
Prabhupāda: 1965, and it is '60 . . . '73, eight years. How many times I have gone to doctor? That once, that heart attack. That is serious; that is another thing. Otherwise, generally how many times I have gone to? I don't pay any bill of doctors. So if we live very hygienic life, regulated life, there is no question of cancer or any disease.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The disease is created by their own . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, they create. By violating the nature's law, disease is created.
Brahmānanda: Their whole idea is that they want to violate the law, but not suffer for it. That is the whole basis of their research work.
Prabhupāda: But actually they suffer. Actually they suffer. Now, what is this research work? This is suffering, spending so much hard-earned money. So one of the cause of, I can say, one of the cause of cancer disease is this contraceptive method. You can make research on it. This is very dangerous stipulation, to use contraceptives. So they are, one side, discovering contraceptive medicine, contraceptive chemical; another side researching for cancer disease. And they say also that smoking is also one of the causes. Smoking. So why do you not give up smoking? Smoking, illicit sex, contraceptive method.
Brahmānanda: From the meat-eating comes the heart disease.
Prabhupāda: From meat-eating?
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda, the material world is a reflection of the spiritual world. So we have different variegatedness in the material world, different living entities, plants, animals.
Prabhupāda: Without the inconveniences. Means, in the material world there are so many inconveniences. So spiritual world, there is no inconvenience. Inebriety. It is a reflection of the spiritual world, but there are so many difficulties there. Therefore it is called material world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, my question being, so they have all the variegatedness in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are trees, there are water, birds, beasts, but they are all spiritual. Just like here everything is material. Here water is working according to the material laws. In the spiritual world if I say: "Please come here," he will come here. That is spiritual world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the difference is that the spiritual . . .
Prabhupāda: Everything spiritual. As here everything is material, there everything is spiritual. Now try to understand what is matter, what is spirit. Spirit, as I was explaining yesterday, the spirit is the conductor, operator, of the aeroplane. So matter is working under the guidance of spirit. So there everything being spirit, there is no necessity of another spiritual guidance.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we have, in this material world, we have the evolution. We have the evolution.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no evolution, because there is no birth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, in the material world.
Prabhupāda: Material world, there is evolution because there is birth. But in the spiritual there is no birth. Birth, death, old age, disease, these things are not there. There is no question of evolution. Evolution means to transmigrate from one body to another. But there is no such thing. Everyone is eternal. There is no death, there is no transmigration. This is botheration. Therefore spiritual world means all the varieties of the material world less botheration, minus botheration.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the Vaikuṇṭha planets . . .
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had so many girlfriends. There are so many nice description of embracing, kissing, but there is no pregnancy or abortion. There is no description of such thing. And that is spiritual world. The attraction for young boy, young girl is there also. They are also enjoying their company. Everything is there. But there is no such thing as pregnancy and abortion. Here people do not want that, pregnancy and abortion. But they are forced to do it because there are so many inebrieties here.
That thing is minus in the spiritual world. They are also attracted by the bodily features of the women. There is attraction, but they are more attracted by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore this bodily attraction of woman does not affect them. Just like if you have got better attraction, you don't care for the lower attraction. The attractions are there. The body of the woman is very beautiful. But men are not so much attracted with the body of the woman. They are more attracted to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. These are described in the Bhāgavata. Here also, practically we see, those who are attracted by the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they are not very much attracted with the bodily features of the women. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So attraction is there, but better attraction. Life is there, better life. Everything better, superior. Superior energy.
Brahmānanda: You've said that our Society, ISKCON, is like a sample of the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Brahmānanda: We develop our attraction for Hare Kṛṣṇa; we lose our attraction for sex life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktiḥ . . . (SB 11.2.42). That is the sign of advancement of bhakti. If you don't be . . . I was explaining this. If you don't be detached with these material things, then you should know that you are not advancing in material . . . er, spiritual life. If you have got still attachment for these nonsense material things, that means you are not advanced. Just like if you are eating, and if you are not getting health, that means you are eating nonsense. Eating must result in good health. That is eating. Eating does not mean to fill up the belly with all rubbish things. Eating means that you become healthy, nice eating.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Understanding that in the spiritual world . . . in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, we get that all the inhabitants are four-handed forms of Nārāyaṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly like Nārāyaṇa. Their bodily features . . . just like here, you cannot distinguish by the bodily feature who is President Nixon, who is a common man. You cannot distinguish by the bodily feature. Similarly, there also, you cannot distinguish who is a common man and who is Personality of Godhead. They are like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still, there are plants and all the living entities in the Vaikuṇṭha . . .
Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge. He knows, "Here is God. Although He is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planet, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the . . . yes, that's all.
Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So all the living entities are completely satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Because they are in the spiritual life. That is real life. Here it is covered. There is no such season as winter season, as summer season. Always spring. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), simply ānanda, blissful life of knowledge. What do they know, the scientists, about the spiritual life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is no . . .
Prabhupāda: No information, no research. That kūpa-maṇḍūka, this frog in the well. That's all. They have no information of the Pacific Ocean. They are researching within the well. That's all. They have no information even of this material world. What do they know about the so many planets, so many huge outer space? What do they know?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Almost nothing.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. Not even of this planet, what to speak of other planet. And still, they are proud. "Nobel Prize."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they know that there is definitely a blissful world, spiritual world, they would not work this hard.
Prabhupāda: Yes, why? Just like Lomaśa Muni. Lomaśa Muni, his duration of life is that when one Brahmā dies, one hair from the body falls. So in this way, when all the hairs of his body will fall down, he will die. He has such a great length of . . . so he was standing on the side of sea and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Nārada Muni approached him, "Why don't you make a small cottage here?" He said: "How long I shall live? (laughter) Aiye, standing will do. Let me finish my business . . ." Just see. And here they'll live for twenty years and making skyscraper building "tok-dong, tok-dong, tok-dong." (laughter) Does not calculate that, "I shall live for twenty or thirty years."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is not guaranteed also.
Prabhupāda: That is also not guaranteed. Why I am taking so much trouble? They are so foolish persons. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā (Vidyāra Vilāse 3). This so-called scientific education means people become more attracted with this temporary world, and he works very hard, just like an ass. Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that, "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses," although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass.
So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that, "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say: "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they have no idea of the next life. Harer nāma harer nāma . . . (CC Adi 17.21).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: London is also like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, London, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The smell we are getting now from burning the gas or coal is also one of the causes of cancer. The hydrocarbons.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the artificial life is the cause of all diseases. And they won't accept our natural life. That they think primitive, "We must advance." What is your advancement? Primitive life was also subjected to death. You are also subjected to death. So where is your advancement?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Advancement in decorating the dead body.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, yes. Decorating a dead body, yes.
(sound of a chainsaw)
So this is another foolishness. First of all they fill all these logs. Now they are cutting. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. And millions of dollars will be spent for this purpose.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have so many plans, one after another. Never stop.
Prabhupāda: Restlessness. Not fixed up. What they are doing here?
Brahmānanda: They want to break these posts to dig this hole.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is a very big . . . it's quite deep. I think they are digging so they can take this out. This is called technological advancement. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, to work foolishly. (break) Six thirty-seven. Is that all right? What is your time?
Brahmānanda: Six thirty-four.
Prabhupāda: Oh, little slow.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I am writing a letter to Rāmānanda Prabhu . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, "Come and join. Let us do some service to Kṛṣṇa." What is the value of our education? Earning money, that also ordinary porter also . . . they are also earning more than that, than scientists, these men?
Brahmānanda: Oh, yeah.
Prabhupāda: What do they charge per day?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are getting much more than the normal scientist, because manual labor is very expensive here.
Brahmānanda: About seven, eight dollars an hour or something like that?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Seven or eight thousand dollars?
Brahmānanda: About seven or eight dollars an hour.
Prabhupāda: An hour. And they work for how many hours?
Brahmānanda: Eight hours. So fifty-six dollars, or fifty dollars per day. Who can earn, the scientists, fifty dollars?
Devotee: The bricklayers get a hundred dollars a day. Carpenters . . .
Prabhupāda: Just see. So why don't you become a bricklayer instead of scientist? (laughter) You get more money. Dr. Bose, he called me . . . I told you. He asked me, "What you are doing?" "Now, I am going to the share market." So he immediately said, "Then what is the value of your education if you are going to the share market like the Marwaris, who are illiterate?" Share . . . share market means to have some tricks how to sell and purchase shares. That, by practicing, anyone can do. It is not very difficult.
(break) . . . life from life. Make vigorous propaganda. Let them come to argument, scientific discussion.
The man and woman in your country, they have got equal rights. Why not here, (laughter) in the lavatory? Why this discrimination, "woman," "man"? Why? Equal rights. Must be equal rights.
What is the basic philosophy for contraception . . . contraceptive action?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Philosophy?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do they prefer contraceptive method?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their point being to reduce the population.
Prabhupāda: Reduce the population.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Not to increase.
Prabhupāda: But population is reducing . . . it is increasing. You take the statistics, the world population is increasing, it is not decreasing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is increasing, but not as fast as the . . .
Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is increasing; it is not decreasing. And besides that, there is no such restriction among the birds and beast. How you can make more for . . . a cat, a dog, a hog, this birth—one dozen children at a time. And twice in a year. So increasing population is more there. They have got more capacity. So they are not fasting.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that because of our medical science, the number of deaths are decreasing. The number of births are increasing, and death, the rate is decreasing because of medical science.
Prabhupāda: Due to medical science, death is . . .?
Brahmānanda: Decreasing. People are living longer.
Prabhupāda: It is all nonsense. Who lives now hundred years? Thirty, forty, fifty—finished. It is another nonsense. At the present age, does anybody live like his grandfather? No. No. That's not a fact. At the present moment the maximum years, eighty years. Formerly they were living a hundred years. My grandmother lived for ninety-six years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They take a statistical average, they call. That means the average number of people living now, they have longer lives, on the average.
Prabhupāda: Average duration of life in India is thirty years. Thirty years. It has decreased. (end)