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760311 - Morning Walk - Mayapur
Prabhupāda: ...at the lotus feet of Nitāi. Nitāi-pāda-kamala, koṭi candra suśītala. Because the shelter is so cool, a thousand times cooler than the moon. Where is that..., Yaśomatīnandana? He is not here? Yesterday he met Mādhava Mahārāja. So he had some talks. (chuckles) In that talk he mentioned that "Your Guru Mahārāja was previously a businessman, so... And we are, from our childhood, we are Vaiṣṇava. So therefore he is doing business and getting money."
Harikeśa: Kick him on the face.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, don't say like that. But the thing is... Business means... Business means four things. Yes, we are businessman. I was student of economics. I know how to do business, and the business principle means you require four things: land, labor, capital, organization. So ordinary man cannot do that. Otherwise, everyone would have done some business and become millionaires. But it requires these four things: land, labor, organization and capital. So where you have got these? You have neither land, neither capital, neither place. So how you can do business? I am doing business because I have got all these things. I went to America—land. Then I worked—labor. Then I earned some capital, and I have got brain how to do it. (to Lokanātha:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So why you are becoming paramahaṁsa? Eh? This is paramahaṁsa dress.
Lokanātha: Yeah, I have to dye it today.
Devotee: I told him I'd give him the dye.
Prabhupāda: Don't become paramahaṁsa immediately. Paramahaṁsa is the last stage of sannyāsa. First stage is kuṭicaka. Second stage is parivrājakācārya. Third stage is... No, first stage is kuṭicaka. Then second stage is bahudaka, bahudaka. And third stage is parivrājakācārya, and fourth stage is paramahaṁsa. Therefore paramahaṁsa stage is the topmost.
Lokanātha: They have got white? Do they wear white?
Prabhupāda: They are not under any rule and regulation, paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa means... Just like mlecchas and yavanas, they are not under any rules and regulation, similarly, a paramahaṁsa is also not under any rules and regulation. He can do whatever he likes. Śāstra is not meant for him. Avadhūta. He is not in the material world. Mahābhāva. So that is the last stage of sannyāsa. Kuṭicaka means when from family life, vānaprastha, and then one takes sannyāsa, that is kuṭicaka. Kuṭicaka means he does not remain at home but goes outside home, outside the village area, and makes a kuṭi, cottage, and lives there. But because he is not accustomed to beg, from his house some foodstuff is sent. Just like you are sending to that Sharma some food? This is kuṭicaka. But after some time, when he's little experienced, then he goes from door to door: "Give me a piece of bread." Madhukārī. Madhukāra. Madhukāra means the bee, honeybee. What is called?
Prabhupāda: Bumblebee. He collects little honey here, little honey there, wherever... And not one place so much honey. So this is called bahudaka. Not to collect lump sum food from anywhere. To any gṛhastha a sannyāsī can go: "Please give me a little piece of bread." So that is not difficult. "All right, take." Because many sannyāsī may come, so it is not burden, little piece. So as soon as it is sufficient piece, that's all. It is called bahudaka. Then, when he's further experienced, then preaching country to country, place to place, go on preaching. That is parivrājakācārya. And when he has sufficiently preached, then he can sit down anywhere. That is paramahaṁsa. (shenai playing in background) (break) ...system. In every big temple there is shenai. All through the year, morning, night. Not only temple; rich man's house. And they are so nice player that early in the morning, people, the resident, will rise by hearing the shenai. And at night they will go to bed and sleep hearing the shenai.
Jayapatāka: So that early in morning and late at night.
Prabhupāda: No, other time also. But this time especially.
Lokanātha: They also used to keep cock, hens and the cock, cock early in the morning.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) What is called? Alarm bell. Cocks. "Ka-kaa-ka: Get up please." "Ka-kaa-ka." Nature's alarm.
Gurukṛpā: Sometimes they crow, though, at twelve o'clock at night.
Prabhupāda: Just to cheat you, because you sleep more. (laughter) Because you sleep more, to cheat you. You do not rise early in the morning; therefore they are engaged sometimes to cheat you. (break) ...found a very nice house in London. Jayatīrtha is going to take the credit of purchasing it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we found a very nice house in London, and you're going to get the credit for purchasing it. Just see.
Jayatīrtha: Well, if Kṛṣṇa desires.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything Kṛṣṇa does, but one takes credit. That's it.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. We think that we're the doer, but actually Kṛṣṇa is the doer.
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's been a feeling that all year their hard work has all become worthwhile simply by coming here.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes. Make it more... Therefore I wanted first of all this house, not the temple, because where they'll stay? They'll come to the temple, where they will stay? If you get staying place, then you can act your brain and improve. And if you are harassed—no place—then brain will not work. Therefore I wanted first of all the residential place. And they criticize me, "Oh, you did not construct temple first." And a temple of the devotees is first, our temple. Then God. God will come if there are devotees. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyantī mad-bhaktāḥ (Padma Purāṇa). Unless there is devotee, where is God? God is not a stone. Any stone is God? Unless there is devotees, there's no God. Therefore, without devotee, the idol; this is idol worship. That is not worship. Therefore they cannot understand what is the form, what is the distinction between form of the Lord and idol. They do not know how to worship in devotion. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). They are thinking, "It is stone, and God is remaining here, stone. He will never speak," because they are not devotee. If you become devotee... Just like Sākṣī Gopāla. For devotee He went to give witness, "Yes, I'll walk." That is God. And if you are not devotee, how you can expect the stone statue is walking? You have read that Sākṣī Gopāla?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopāla was saying that "You are asking Me to go to give witness. Do you think a statue can go?" So he is devotee. He said, "Yes, if statue can speak, he can go also." So he had firm faith. So Kṛṣṇa had pledged him, "Yes, I'll go."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you also have that firm faith, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, without firm faith there is no beginning of God worship.
- śraddhā śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya
- kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya
- (CC Madhya 22.62)
Do you not read this?
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā, this faith, means so strong faith that one will know it perfectly well that simply by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is there. That is the beginning of faith. Otherwise there is no faith. And without faith there is no beginning. Ādau śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (CC Madhya 23.14). If you have got that firm faith, then next stage is to live with, to deal with devotees. Then the faith will increase because by seeing their behavior your faith will be increased. Then bhajana-kriyā. (shenai sounds again) Wherefrom this shenai was...?
Sudāmā: Vaikuṇṭhanātha temple.
Sudama: Originally he came from the Vaikuṇṭhanātha temple, Calcutta.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's staying up in that...
Bhāvānanda: They're in the front.
Prabhupāda: They are expert in Madras.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, when we went to Nellore, remember, they were greeting you each time with shenai.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very good.
Pañcadravida: Very expert in South India.
Prabhupāda: You can engage a company, three, four men, for all the year.
Jayapatāka: So they should... Before maṅgala ārati they should begin playing.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, in Madras.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the idea behind this shenai-playing early in the morning?
Prabhupāda: It is very pleasing to hear.
Yaśodānandana: Many temples also in South India, they have all the functions in the morning—waking up the Deity, bathing the Deity, dressing the Deity—they have different shenai tunes for that. Every temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly here introduce.
Gurukṛpā: You should play your flute. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa knows how to play the flute.
Prabhupāda: No flute.
Gurukṛpā: He can learn to play the shenai, though.
Prabhupāda: No... Shenai, yes. Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a man here that's been here, he knows how to play shenai.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. Anyone can learn. Yes. (break)
Lokanātha: ...playing flute imitates Kṛṣṇa or what?
Prabhupāda: There is no flute. You say simply Kṛṣṇa plays flute and nobody plays?
Lokanātha: You said no playing flute.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means in the morning.
Prabhupāda: So they are coming here?
Jayapatāka: Circumambulating the temple.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...very colorful with all the devotees. Sādhu-saṅgaḥ really has improved a million times.
Jayapatāka: In South India, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the ācārya goes out...
Prabhupāda: So you are taking this bamboo down? This?
Jayapatāka: It's already down.
Prabhupāda: No, this down?
Jayapatāka: Hah, down. Cleared out.
Prabhupāda: So it is cleared. You men can live there.
Devotees in distance: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Jayapatāka: They have big umbrella overhead.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they did it. They did it in South India when I was there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Nellore. That was wonderful.
Jayapatāka: We can make such arrangement?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Ācāryopāsanam. That is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ācāryopāsanam (BG 13.8). It is not self-aggrandizement. The ācāryopāsanā goes to Kṛṣṇa directly. Therefore it is needed. Not that it is a pompous thing. Ācāryopāsanā. Kṛṣṇa says. That is the way of knowledge. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: How does that work, that if somebody has the association of a pure devotee for only a lava, one-eleventh of a second, that he attains all perfection?
Prabhupāda: If he is so sincere. Just like dried wood immediately ignites. And if it is moist, it does not. It is the quality of the wood. One takes three hundred years; one in three minutes. That's it. (loud shenai)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can see them there. (break)
Prabhupāda: One is dry from the material moist of contamination, he becomes immediately ignited in spiritual...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that drying process?
Prabhupāda: Drying process is for many, many years one has tried to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, for many, many lives, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). When he actually becomes man of knowledge he surrenders unto God. Otherwise he is lost. His drying process may take three minute or three millions' years.
Gurukṛpā: But that knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is everything comes by Kṛṣṇa's mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is already there, but if you are not able to take it...
Pañcadravida: Then you don't even have to hear from a self-realized soul. Simply by seeing him you can become completely purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Both required. The matches must be also all right, and the wood must be also. Then there is fire. If one of them is defective, then it will not... But when you go to the fire, you become dry. But willfully we put again water. This nonsense business makes us late. This process is already there, how to become dry. But instead of taking the process, we put water. Then how it will be ignited? The rules and regulations is the drying process. But without following the rules and regulation, if you again become a victimized by māyā, then there is water, and again dry it. So this is going on: watering and drying, watering and drying. No straightforward process for drying. That will help. But difficulty is that we dry, and again water.
Viṣṇujana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, how did Choṭa Haridāsa achieve perfection by killing himself after apparently pouring water on his devotional creeper by talking to a woman?
Prabhupāda: His instance was that even an associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu can fall down. And if one falls down, his punishment is that: suicide. There is no other punishment. He must commit suicide. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruc... Otherwise, he is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's personal servant. He cannot fall down. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed this instance, that "Even one is My personal servant, he can fall down." And if anyone by any cause he falls down, his punishment is he must commit suicide. This is instruction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very strict.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. "You have fallen down? You must commit suicide. No more My association."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that the same as in the Bhagavad-gītā where Kṛṣṇa says, "For one who is honored, dishonor is worse than death"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally taught this. To be victimized by māyā is possi... There is possibility... Just like Jaya and Vijaya. They were gatekeepers in the Vaikuṇṭha. They also fell down, Hiraṇyakaśipu. So this falldown, there is possibility in any moment because we are very small. We can be captivated by māyā at any moment. Therefore we shall be very, very careful. And if you fall down, then punishment is you make suicide. That's all. Then next life we shall see.
Satsvarūpa: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, in The Nectar of Devotion it says devotional service is so pure that there's no prāyaścitta necessary. Just again engage in your service.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not prāyaścitta. This is exemplary punishment. He was not liable to be punished, but they played, that "This is the... This should be done."
Gurukṛpā: He did not kill himself immediately. He waited for a year.
Prabhupāda: He was waiting if Caitanya Mahāprabhu would accept him again. But when he saw that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not so lenient, he committed suicide. Vajrād api kaṭhora. Harder than the thunderbolt and softer than the rose. This is the position.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Prabhupāda, if you were as strict as... If you were that strict...
Prabhupāda: No, I am not Caitanya Prabhu. I am not... Why you are comparing me? I am an ordinary man.
Gurukṛpā: So in ISKCON, if someone falls down, it means that he should commit suicide?
Gurudāsa: We wouldn't have much of a movement, then.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We're too attached to our bodies anyway, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if he falls down, that is automatically suicide. If he falls down, that means it is suicide. He got the chance. If he falls down, that is suicide.
Gurukṛpā: Spiritual suicide.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual suicide. One gets the chance of becoming eligible for going back to home, back to Godhead, and if he commits mistake and it is stopped, is it not suicide?
Gurukṛpā: You once gave the example, Śrīla Prabhupāda, of taking your plane off the ground and then bringing it back to land again.
Gurukṛpā: You once gave the example that you take your plane to a destination, and you have to turn around and come back and start all over again, take off again.
Prabhupāda: There are so many. Dṛḍha-vrata. Bhajante mam dṛḍha-vrata (BG 7.28). So we should be very strong-minded and continue our devotional service very strongly. (greets devotees:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Garga-money, not Gargamuni. He's doing some transaction. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Garga means...
Jayatīrtha: I think he went to see about the electricity. He said that he was going to go early this morning to see about the electricity, why it is always going off.
Prabhupāda: Oh, garga, garga means "big jug," and "money," full of money. Big jug full of coins. Formerly they used to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keep.
Prabhupāda: No. Cheat the government. There was no income tax, but still they used to keep in big, big jugs all gold coins and put into the..., underneath the ground. Nobody could understand where is the money. Very easy thing.
Prabhupāda: And he did not disclose at the time of death; then it remained. And then, after some years, somebody digging, he got.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a nice example given in Nectar of Devotion about the digging for a treasure.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes. (break) ...shenai on the gate, that is nice. Jayapatāka?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatāka.
Jayapatāka: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: They should play shenai on the gate, and here kīrtana will go on. Not that kīrtana will be stopped to hear their dundubhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shenai is not a replacement for kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: No. Shenai is meant for... That is navadhana. That is called navadhana. (break) ...must be played. Not this dundubhi. They are playing as a dundubhi. That will not work. And along with shenai they can play.
Madhudviṣa: Getting his reeds together.
Madhudviṣa: Getting his reeds together. (shenai starts)
Devotee: There he goes. (laughing) (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're accusing you of being businessman.
Jayapatāka: We are selling Bhāgavatam; they are selling fish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are selling Bhāgavatam; they are selling fish. (laughs) (end)