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750630 - Morning Walk - Denver

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750630MW-DENVER - June 30, 1975 - 29:00 Minutes

(in car)

Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was cursed, accepted one curse. And Dakṣa-rāja said that "I curse you that you will (not) stay anywhere." So he said, "Yes, that is very good for me." (laughs) He could curse, counter, but he accepted, "Yes, it is a very good curse. I shall not stay anywhere." "You have spoiled my children to become mendicant, go back to home, back to Godhead. They did not enjoy this material world. You are so heinous," like that. Our students' parents, they are also thinking, "What is this nonsense, no meat-eating, no illicit sex? The enjoyment of life, everything is spoiled. They are becoming sannyāsī." So they are cursing me.

Satsvarūpa: They say we must have been hypnotized to give this up.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Satsvarūpa: You must have hypnotized us to give this up.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Judah, what is that, charmistic? Charmistic or . . .

Brahmānanda: Charismic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic.

Brahmānanda: Charismatic, yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) He also said. Yes, they are thinking it is hypnotism. "All young men, their life is for this material enjoyment, and they are giving up everything and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is this?"

Brahmānanda: In Māyāpur there is one astrologer, and he . . .

Prabhupāda: Who is that astro . . .?

Brahmānanda: I don't know his name. He lives in . . . Across, on the other side there, where the bank is.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Bamanpukur(?).

Brahmānanda: No, on the other side of the . . .

Prabhupāda: Navadvipa?

Brahmānanda: No, on the . . . Where the railway is.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Svarūp Gañj.

Brahmānanda: Yes, Svarūp Gañj. So he likes our movement very much, and he said that . . . He told one of our devotees that you were the most powerful personality in the world. And he has given very accurate astrology readings to some of our devotees.

Prabhupāda: And he was, what he has told about me?

Brahmānanda: That you are the most powerful personality in the world.

Prabhupāda: If I am representative of Kṛṣṇa, then I must be the most powerful. Kṛṣṇa has got. . . all omnipotent. (laughs) Most powerful the most my Godbrothers. That is my credit. They are thinking like that, "This man became most powerful than all of us. (still laughing) He was a gṛhastha." They used to say all the gṛhasthas, paca-gṛhastha. Paca means decomposed. What Bon Mahārāja is doing now?

Satsvarūpa: I don't know up to date. I just know a few weeks ago he was in Canada.

Brahmānanda: When our devotees go to see a professor after Bon Mahārāja has spoken with him, the professors don't want to take our books. They make complaints that our books are too sectarian, they're not scholarly, they're not. . . in this way.

Prabhupāda: He is making that poison.

Brahmānanda: Yeah, he is giving some propaganda.

Satsvarūpa: The idea that he is more scholarly and more academic.

Prabhupāda: These rascals will not, "Where is your book?"

Satsvarūpa: He's just got that one book. And he doesn't have that anymore.

Prabhupāda: He has sold all?

Satsvarūpa: I think so. I never see it anywhere in any libraries.

Brahmānanda: He wanted to send some to America.

(break) (on walk)

Prabhupāda: . . .by his propaganda they are talking like that?

Brahmānanda: Well, one thing, there was one debate, and he was there and our men were there too. And he was representing Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Brahmānanda: Swami Bon.

Prabhupāda: How?

Satsvarūpa: It was an inter-religion meeting, and there were representatives from different Christian. . . and he was there for Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he didn't give any strong argument; he just presented it as if it were another way.

Prabhupāda: What is that way?

Satsvarūpa: Well, he said, he described it very . . . About Rādhā . . . That Lord Caitanya is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined.

Prabhupāda: That we say also.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, but the boys who were there, they said it wasn't at all the way you speak. He wasn't saying that ours was the best.

Prabhupāda: No, ours is the best. Neither he is best nor it is as it is.

Satsvarūpa: One of our men spoke up and said that . . . The president of Toronto temple, Uttamaśloka, he said, "So far we've just discussed different religions from a relative point of view. Why don't we discuss what is the Absolute Truth?" And they all became . . . They didn't like that. They said, "We feel defensive when you speak like this."

Brahmānanda: And Swami Bon said that "You don't know so much."

Satsvarūpa: Yeah, he criticized our Uttamaśloka. And then he said, "Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they don't engage in argumentation and debate." So Uttamaśloka said, "Yes, Lord Caitanya argued with Prakāśānanda."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very good.

Satsvarūpa: But Swami Bon said, "No, He didn't convert him by argument," he said, "He converted him by the effulgence."

Prabhupāda: (replying to Swami Bon:) "But there was argument, rascal." (laughter)

Satsvarūpa: And as a result of that . . .

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal, rascal.

Satsvarūpa: He told one professor that our devotees in general, they're not tolerant when someone speaks something.

Prabhupāda: (replying to Swami Bon:) "You are also not tolerant. Why you have come here? Because you are envious. You are the most intolerant. You are blaspheming."

Satsvarūpa: Yes. He also said that on the altar in Toronto . . . It's an altar just like in all our temples. He said, "Lord Caitanya should not be there with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." They have them separated like . . .

Prabhupāda: Why? My Guru Mahārāja have so many Māyāpur temples, Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Brahmānanda: All the Gauḍīya temples, they all have . . .

Bhāvānanda: Yoga-pīṭha has.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Brahmānanda: Bombay. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .men should be very strong to protest. They must know he has come purposely, purposefully. Of course, he will not be able to do anything. Simply ask him, "You, sir, what you have done for the last forty years? And who asked you to start this institute? And why you were called back by Guru Mahārāja?" You ask these things. "And you performed some ceremony for neutralizing your guru-aparādha." He did it. Some astrologers . . . He admitted that "I have offended my Guru Mahārāja. So I am not improving. So can you suggest anything?" He said that "You offer 108 bilva patra to Lord Śiva." And he did it for so many . . .

Brahmānanda: Prāyaścitta, is that called?

Prabhupāda: Prāyaścitta, yes.

Brahmānanda: You mention that in your Nectar of Devotion, that if some offense is committed, it's not necessary to perform any rituals but to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and that one will become purified in that way.

Prabhupāda: So nobody knows where he is?

Brahmānanda: Well, he was last seen in . . .

Satsvarūpa: He was staying sometimes in New York City in a place called the Theological Seminary. He was being put up there.

Prabhupāda: Theological Seminary?

Satsvarūpa: I've never heard of the place.

Bhāvānanda: Columbia? New York Theological Seminary.

Prabhupāda: He might have started. He might have started.

Satsvarūpa: And also he felt offended that the Brooklyn temple did not invite him. He said they knew he was there, but they didn't invite him.

Prabhupāda: Why? (replying to Swami Bon:) "You could see there. It is a Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava temple." Temple . . . I invited him from . . .

Brahmānanda: From Hawaii you wrote a letter. He spoke at several of our temples—Toronto and Ottawa.

Prabhupāda: So how did you go there? Did he . . .?

Satsvarūpa: He has some patrons among the professors. I know this one Professor O'Connell; he kept him at his home for some days and did some advertising for him for meetings. And then he has another professor friend in Montreal. So he knows different people. He has contacts. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .net result. Has he started anything?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Bhāvānanda: Some trouble. (laughter) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .come alone or with somebody else?

Satsvarūpa: I think alone. (break)

Brahmānanda: . . .disciple in Vṛndāvana, that American boy?

Harikeśa: Aśina-Kṛṣṇa.

Brahmānanda: Aśina-Kṛṣṇa. He asked him to come also with him to America, but he refused. The disciple refused. He told me that, he said, "You know, sometimes you can't do everything that your guru tells you to do." He said, "It was a little difficult saying no to my guru, but I had to do it."

Prabhupāda: His parents sponsored him.

Brahmānanda: Yes. From Long Island, Rock of. . . Far Rockaway, Jewish area?

Bhāvānanda: Far Rockaway. (break)

Prabhupāda: He did not come? That student?

Brahmānanda: I think he was afraid to come and see his parents and come back to America.

Harikeśa: He told me in Vṛndāvana that sometimes Bon Mahārāja is "a little too far out." His disciple said this.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Harikeśa: He said that Bon Mahārāja—this is a quote—is "a little too far out." His disciple said this.

Prabhupāda: None of his disciples living with him.

Brahmānanda: Yeah, he also said that. He said, "It is too difficult to live with my guru. I must live apart." (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .the Christian meeting, where it was?

Satsvarūpa: In Toronto, different professors.

Prabhupāda: What was the subject?

Satsvarūpa: Just world religions, with representatives from different religions. Each would speak on their understanding. They asked him what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: And who asked for the Absolute Truth, that . . .?

Satsvarūpa: Uttamaśloka dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, they avoided.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, they asked him . . . Swami Bon said, "Don't speak."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: He asked Uttamaśloka, "Don't speak. It's not . . . You shouldn't . . ."

Prabhupāda: What right he has got to say like that? It was a meeting. He did not say, "What right you have got to say me?" The president? He was president or what?

Satsvarūpa: He's a president.

Prabhupāda: No, no, in the meeting . . .

Satsvarūpa: No, Swami Bon was just a guest also.

Prabhupāda: So why he can. . . why he said like, "Don't speak"?

Yadubara: They tried to do that to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kurukṣetra. They did not want you to speak.

Prabhupāda: Kurukṣetra? No.

Yadubara: They allowed you?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Yadubara: But after some persuasion, I think.

Brahmānanda: They wanted Prabhupāda to speak at the end.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: Because you gave the final word. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I gave them these all . . . What I said?

Brahmānanda: So, first you said, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66): "Give up all of this so-called religion."

Prabhupāda: Yes. On cheating, I said.

Brahmānanda: Yeah. Then you, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ, then "It's all this cheating."

Yadubara: But the whole assembly was broken up after your speech.

Brahmānanda: Yeah, then after you finished speaking, you got up and left, then the ācārya, he was supposed to speak, but then everyone else followed Prabhupāda out . . . (laughter)

Prabhupāda: I gave my verdict, "This is all cheating." (laughs) Then "I cannot wait anymore." (break)

Satsvarūpa: . . .Uttamaśloka was telling me was that Swami Bon's talk was very difficult for an ordinary person to understand. He started right out by describing how Rādhārāṇī is the pleasure potency of Kṛṣṇa, and it was very difficult . . . He didn't do any preliminary . . .

Prabhupāda: Jugglery.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Very intellectual description of the psychology. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .result of that meeting?

Satsvarūpa: No result.

Prabhupāda: Simply talking? (break) . . .come to take some students to his institution.

Satsvarūpa: Something like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: After he speaks, he speaks about his institution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the institution is now closed. So he thought that he would bring some student from America. (break) He is also one of the, what is called, trustees of the . . . So he has said to Bon Mahārāja "You better hand it over to Bhaktivedanta Swami. You cannot do it." (break)

Bhāvānanda: . . .he is intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is businessman. Picking up the . . . (break) . . .in Hong Kong, they are picking up some food from this garbage.

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have seen it?

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Picking up food. (break)

Satsvarūpa: . . .got another report from that National Library Convention. They have a big sign that the artist has made, and it says, "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, the World's Largest Publisher and Distributor of Books in the Philosophy, Religion and Culture of India." Has that on their booth. And many professors and librarians come. They have given out four hundred catalogs. Mostly they don't buy on the spot. They take this catalog back to their library. And they're from all over the country. From every part of the country they go there.

Prabhupāda: So catalogs being distributed.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They're taking them. Then they take them back and check them off. And the librarians are saying, as soon as they see our booth, they say, "Any books on India and yoga and meditation," he says, "there's a great demand for them. Many young people want to read about."

Prabhupāda: But we have got the largest number of books.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No other yoga system.

Satsvarūpa: World's largest. (break) . . .librarians, they said, "Well, if someone comes in and asks you for a reference book on yoga and meditation, what reference books do you have?" And they admit that there are no encyclopedias or reference books on Indian philosophy. So they're describing that . . . Our men are describing that this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an encyclopedia of all Indian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). The essence of all Vedic knowledge. (break)

Bhāvānanda: . . .a few days previous Sudāmā Mahārāja and I were in Salt Lake City. We went to the Mormon Church visitor's center. Beautiful presentation. Dioramas, so many dioramas, and a big ramp, circular ramp like we want to have in Māyāpur. You walk up into a big diorama of the universe with . . . Lord Jesus is there. Beautiful presentation. A bogus philosophy, but nice presentation.

Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?

Bhāvānanda: That when you marry, then you are married eternally. And after you die, you go to heaven and you live with your family, your wife and your children, for ever and ever. That's their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Marry?

Bhāvānanda: Eternal marriage. And when you die, you go to heaven in the same body that you're in.

Brahmānanda: If you don't get married, then you don't go to heaven?

Bhāvānanda: Everyone gets married. They have a nice policy from the year nineteen to twenty-one, every man must serve missionary work all over the world, and then he comes back and is married eternally. (break) And movie theaters, eight movie theaters.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) . . .this way or that way? (break) What is that?

Sudāmā: Cesspool. Underground sewer. It's backing up.

Devotee: That's what that water there?

Sudāmā: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: It's coming out.

Sudāmā: It's stopped up. They haven't cleaned it, evidently, so the water is backing up with stools. (break)

Devotee: In Dvārakā, did Kṛṣṇa's queens play tennis?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of playing tennis? There is mention that Dvārakā they were playing ball on the roof of the palace, the queens. Maybe tennis also there. (break) . . .playing this there, on the roof. Kind of exercise for the woman, queens.

Devotee (1): Only for the women?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No men.

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa would sometimes play with fruits in the forest?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa and His friends would play sometimes, catch with fruits?

Prabhupāda: Fruits?

Devotee (3): Bael fruits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are playing in so many ways. (japa) (break)

Devotee (4): . . .zoo. Our men distributed over four hundred pieces of literature inside the zoo.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Devotee (2): Back to Godhead magazines?

Devotee (4): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Four hundred? Very good. (break) . . .books, small books also?

Devotee (4): Just magazines. We don't have any small books now. (break) . . .coloring books, too, Prabhupāda.

Devotee (5): Many, many children's books here.

Devotee (4): Coloring books. (break)

Prabhupāda: Oh, this is zoo. (break) . . .one dollar. (break) . . .with the leaders of the Mormon?

Devotee (2): We have talked with them before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. A man who just died one or two years ago, he had our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (japa)

Devotee (2): I think they have twelve apostles?

Bhāvānanda: Yeah, elders.

Devotee (2): And they were also interested in the books. (break)

Brahmānanda: . . . and the bird is also in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: The scientists, they would say, "Somehow or other, the bird or something . . ."

Prabhupāda: "Somehow or other." This is science. (laughter) "Somehow or other," "maybe," "perhaps." This is their science. (break) . . .speculation. The whole Western country, their all knowledge, simply speculation. Nothing definite. (break) . . .Professor Dimmock has "Definitive . . ." What is that translation, or something like?

Harikeśa: Definitive.

Prabhupāda: Definitive, then "translation of Bhagavad-gītā," like that. (break)

Devotee (4): . . .a human being? Does he become a human being?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (4): Dogs, they are becoming attached to the human being. Are they becoming human beings in their next life?

Prabhupāda: Maybe. (break)

Yadubara: . . .becoming attached to the dog. So they are becoming dogs in their . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dog is never attached.

Bhāvānanda: Eat his master.

Prabhupāda: That's it. (break)

Yadubara: . . .devotees say on saṅkīrtana there's only a dog at home. They knock on the door and there's only a dog.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Yadubara: Some of the devotees on saṅkīrtana. There is only a dog at home. They will knock on the door. Everyone is gone except the dog.

Brahmānanda: They go from house to house distributing books. They ring the bell, and just the dog answers. (laughter)

Yadubara: The dog is living in this big house.

Harikeśa: The people are out on the streets.

Brahmānanda: (break) . . .the dog. (break)

(in car)

Prabhupāda: . . .if you meet Bon Mahārāja, and if he talks again . . . (indistinct) . . ., say, "You were sent in London for establishing a temple? Why you could not do it? You remained there for three, four years. And why you were called back by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī? What did you do for the three, four years in spite of full support from Gauḍīya Maṭh?" They were sending seven hundred rupees. In those days seven hundred rupees means nowadays seven thousand. He was squandering the money. "Authority . . . Authority, scholarly, how many books you have published from your institution for the last forty years?" He was in London. In the 1930s he came back. Came back means Guru Mahārāja called him back. Then he separated from Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he tried to start this institution. Sometimes in the 1945, '47. . . not '40; '30. And it is '75, clear forty years. So "What books you have published? Authority, scholarly, what books you have published? And how many scholars you have produced? Why it is closed now?"

Satsvarūpa: He's bluffing.

Prabhupāda: He has simply collected money like anything by this bluff. Now people are asking that. Therefore Dalmia said one of the trustees, "You better give it to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They have seen. They have taken money from them. Or for maintaining the institution he regularly gets money from rich men in Calcutta, Bombay, one thousand, two thousand, 1,500, like that.

Satsvarūpa: He has given the school some title, "Oriental Institute." It is called the Oriental Institute?

Brahmānanda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy? Yes. And the students are coming to him with knives. That is his popularity. Amongst his own students he is threatened with knife. And he has to sign something by such threatening. (end)