770423 - Conversation B - Bombay

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



770423ME-BOMBAY - April 23, 1977 - 40:11 Minutes



Prabhupāda: And you want cloth. That is primary necessities. So if you become independent about these things, your eighty percent economic problem is solved. So this is a wrong type of civilization only. That Gandhi's program was very nice. We want to revive.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, we... In fact, we have sent our students at Sabarmati Ashram itself, and the person... He is still with us. He's top of the list in the Sabarmati Ashram, who was doing it. But now...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we can take up this enterprise immediately. Whether we can induce the villagers, neighboring inhabitants, to cooperate? That is wanted. Otherwise, what we shall do with this building?

Mr. Dwivedi: Correct.

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa. Catur-vidhā-rasa—dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they will stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ (Taittirīya Upaniṣad 2.7.1). If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. That we want. So if you people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with to artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex. And somebody, very pure, mokṣa-rasa. Catur-rasa. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness all the four rasas are there. Simply we have to present. So that is possible by the bhakti-rasa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam... (SB 7.5.23). So we have to begin. The villagers must come, sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and give them prasādam. If you can bring them, so far money is concerned for giving prasādam, that we shall arrange. Then gradually let them be engaged in spinning all their necessities, in plowing, in protection of the cows. They get some... We have done it already in foreign countries—enough milk, enough vegetables, enough food grains. They're so happy. They're so happy. These nonsense civilization, attracting to earn money and construct anthill... These skyscraper buildings are as good as the anthill. It has no meaning. But they are constructing. So the change of attraction. Raso vai saḥ. All the rasas, they should be trained up to take it from Kṛṣṇa. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42): "I have got the rasa from You. I don't want anything more." This is perfection. Otherwise, for these material rasas, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). That I was discussing last night. They have got sex rasa at home. Still, they're going prostitute-hunting. (break) "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got influence over the Muslims. Why don't you stop cow-killing?" And he said, "Oh, how can I stop it? It is their religion."

Mr. Dwivedi: Which is not a fact.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Which is also not a fact. Which is also not a fact.

Prabhupāda: I do not wish to discuss our...

Mr. Dwivedi: Because he tried to mix politics with religion...

Prabhupāda: Yes!

Mr. Dwivedi: And therefore...

Prabhupāda: It was failure.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...he could not succeed.

Prabhupāda: It was failure.

Mr. Dwivedi: If he had tried only religion or only social reform...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of religion. Religion is... Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, they are everything. Religion follows same thing, not that religion is impractical.

Mr. Dwivedi: It is nobody's religion, what little I know of the few religions, that to advise that "You must take a particular type of flesh and not the other type."

Prabhupāda: No, flesh you can take if you are carnivorous, but not this cow's flesh. That is particularly instructed in Bhagavad-gītā: kṛṣi-go-rakṣya (BG 18.44). Kṛṣṇa did not say that "You be non–meat-eater." That is not possible. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Every living entity is living by eating another living entity. That is the laws of nature. But there are different types. So in the human society, if there are persons who want to eat flesh, so they can eat that nonimportant, small animals. But don't touch cow. That is Gītā's instruction. Go-rakṣya, He has particularly said. If you are so mean that you have to eat some flesh, there are hogs, dogs and... And you can eat. But don't touch cow. Gandhi posed himself as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he did not understand a single line. That is the defect. Gandhi took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as a childish play. Dangerous. Therefore country is ruined. You must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there is authority. You cannot change it. If you change it, where is the authority? Can you change the simple law, "Keep to the right," "Keep to the left"? No. It is authority. If the direction is "Keep to the right," you must keep to the right. You cannot say that "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then there is no authority. So Gandhi, Tilak and Aurobindo and so on, so on, they took Bhagavad-gītā as a childish play. Whatever they want, they interpret like that. And Vivekananda supported, yato mata tato patha: "You can have your own opinion." These are all nonsense. Therefore country is ruined. You must take as it is. Then it will be... You cannot change the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya... (BG 18.44).

Mr. Dwivedi: Vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam.

Prabhupāda: So go-rakṣya, not... Just like Vinoba Bhave recently, "Cows which have delivered milk should not be sacrificed." Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Only the cows which are delivering milk, they should not be sent to slaughterhouse." Go-rakṣya. Even they are not delivering milk...

Mr. Dwivedi: Go-rakṣya means go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya.

Mr. Dwivedi: Go-rakṣya means go-rakṣya. It doesn't mean that the sick should not be protected, the weak should not be protected. Go-rakṣya means go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: Honest, in India, the ninety-nine, more or less...

Prabhupāda: They're all violators.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...are materialists. Go-rakṣya is go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: All violating. You see? I had been recently in Gandhi's āśrama at Trinoba(?). I do not wish to say, but they do not understand Gītā.

Mr. Dwivedi: Because they mixed politics with religion and wanted an adjustment...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Why you take...? Religion is also, we shall do. As soon as I say religion, you say, "I have got my religion." It is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is equally understandable by Hindus, by Muslim, by Christian. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone knows. Everyone should accept. "Because I am Hindu, therefore two plus two equal to five"—that cannot be. So Bhagavad-gītā was misrepresented that it is meant for the Hindus. If it is meant for the Hindus, why they are coming? What is the use? They were Christians. They were Jews. Why they are coming? It is a science. So we have to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is—science. It is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). But they misunderstand religion. We described in a...

Mr. Dwivedi: And even the present brāhmaṇas also equally misunderstand. For instance, Gītā is compulsory in every institution right from the very beginning. So at one time, because it was compulsory for Muslims, even it was compulsory for the harijanas. I stood excommunicated for some time. Now sometimes complaint goes to the government, "What is solution?" And therefore they say, "Why government should hear you? You are complaining everybody." "This is not everybody. This is..." Gītā is no particular religion's book. It is a cosmopolitan...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

We test like that. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, narādhama. That is our general definition. How we do it? Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Mūḍhas. So therefore it is required that people should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is all right. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Everyone, time, will believe.(?) So we can take up, we can immediately begin, but if local people cooperate, then we can do the rest. That is...

Mr. Dwivedi: There is no question of cooperation. We fully believe what you say. Cooperation means by...

Prabhupāda: Cooperation means what we say they must do.

Mr. Dwivedi: We have firm faith in what you say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then we can take any...

Mr. Dwivedi: Cooperation can come even from a person who may not understand a whit.

Prabhupāda: No, cooperation means that.

Mr. Dwivedi: In our own small way we try to live to what Your Grace has been telling me. We live actually in life.

Prabhupāda: Don't try to... That is cooperation. Don't try to amend the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. That is cooperation. The rascals, they amend. And what can I do? I can use this strong word. This is used in the Bhagavad-gītā: mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ. So it is not my manufacture. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why we should amend Kṛṣṇa's word? Surrender and do. That is cooperation. All these svāmīs who...

Mr. Dwivedi: Are we even one millionth of what Kṛṣṇa was? If we are even one millionth of what Kṛṣṇa was, we...

Prabhupāda: No, you are. You are. Kṛṣṇa says. You are sample of Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Dwivedi: We are sample of Kṛṣṇa. Correct.

Prabhupāda: But... So your duty is to cooperate. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Living entities, Kṛṣṇa says, they are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. Its duty, primary duty, is to cooperate what I say. I say the finger, "Come here." Immediately. That is the duty. That is cooperation. And I say the finger, "Come here," and finger goes anywhere, that is not cooperation. Similarly, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is cooperation. Then it will be successful. If you manufacture your own meaning, amendment, and your scholarship, nonsense, then you spoil. Hmm? In politics, nonviolence? Just see. Do you think Gandhi became successful by nonviolence? Do you think? Violence. When Subhas Bose organized this INA it was successful. Otherwise he failed in South Africa; he failed in India.

Mr. Dwivedi: I had the privilege of being fairly nearly with Subhas Bapu. The last I met him was just some time before his going, when he wrote a message...

Prabhupāda: He was... He was for...

Mr. Dwivedi: ...for my paper for all India. I do not know whether it was Subhas Bapu's influence or I do not know my own karmas, but at least in Gandhi's...

Prabhupāda: That it is a fact.

Mr. Dwivedi: I could not appreciate him.

Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. When Subhas Bapu... He was always pleading, "Gandhijī, these people are not to go by your nonviolence, and we have to take to violence." Gandhi would say, "I will not fight. Sva-rājya." Then Subhas went outside India. Somehow or other, he organized. And when the Britishers saw that "The military force, they are joining national movement. Now it is no hope..." Because the Gurkhas and the Sikhs and other military races, they were cooperating with the Britishers; therefore they were maintaining. They could not bring soldiers from their country. And when they saw, "The soldiers are joining Subhas," they left. "Now independence." This is a fact. Otherwise, Gandhi he was patting, "Mahatmajī, you are such a great man."

Mr. Dwivedi: In the... I used to meet in northly country in the late 20's, 1929 and '30, when Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru founded League for Independence of India. Subhas Bapu was the second.

Prabhupāda: I was present in that meeting.

Mr. Dwivedi: So I was in the working committee with Srinivas Iyengar from the South and this Ganesh Shankar Vidyapati from Kanpur. Subhas Bapu used to be very plain. When we used to put certain question to Jawaharlal, then he would say, "If you don't believe in Gandhi's ahiṁsā, you get out. Who will follow him, eh? Where shall I get the crowd to hear me?"

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."

Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt...

Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question... Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa; some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya; some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading... But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there. There is no...

Mr. Dwivedi: The buildings (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Simply it has to be repaired. Climate, I think, it is good, eh? Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Climate is fine, particularly of the place where we have our headquarters. Very pleasant, in summer especially, very pleasant. We don't have bad nights.

Prabhupāda: Why not go? If we go there, eh? In this time?

Mr. Dwivedi: The... In the way it might be not so pleasant, but when we have reached there it is quite pleasant because we are at a height of about 1684 feet, then surrounded by forest. So therefore we don't have this heat wave in that area. And especially when we are at our college building we can telephone not to...

Prabhupāda: So why not go?

Mr. Dwivedi: ...cover with the blanket.

Prabhupāda: So if we go and stay there and organize...

Mr. Dwivedi: I mean, these days it's quite pleasant at our headquarters, but Gwalior is very hot.

Prabhupāda: No...

Mr. Dwivedi: Mosquitoes also.

Prabhupāda: So we shall go there.

Mr. Dwivedi: At our place it's quite fine.

Prabhupāda: Building is there.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, we have got not one buildings. Lot of buildings.

Prabhupāda: So many. So why not think over it? Let us go there for some time and organize.

Mr. Dwivedi: You wanted me first of all to bring some workers to Your Holiness.

Prabhupāda: No, they may come or not come. There should be kavel(?).

Mr. Dwivedi: No... Or if Your Holiness likes, they may come, as many as Your Holiness..., ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty, to be gotten with us. And Your Holiness can further talk with those boys, and then at any time, either now or few months hereafter...

Prabhupāda: No... Just like you have come. You can hold meeting amongst yourself. If you are agreeable, then we take immediately. There is no doubt.

Mr. Dwivedi: We have... If... There is no what is it that I can think of disagreeing. Your Holiness has said nothing in which I do not already believe, in which I do not try to live myself.

Prabhupāda: Then we can go immediately and stay there for some time and organize. Immediately. I...

Mr. Dwivedi: And it will be fine, the line Your Holiness has suggested, a temple. Although we do not have a temple in our colony itself, but we have a temple roundabout, or the temple atmosphere where we are having our own...

Prabhupāda: No, so many buildings... If there is any hall, if there is any big hall for tem...?

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, sir, very big hall. We have a, I think is a hall to accommodate at least four hundred people.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is quite good.

Mr. Dwivedi: The second building which I showed to you already, this building (showing Prabhupāda papers), we have a big hall.

Prabhupāda: There we can have.

Mr. Dwivedi: The first hall is a big hall itself. The first hall is a big hall itself. We have our rooms...

Prabhupāda: So how do you go from Bombay to Jhansi? By train.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, Bombay to Jhansi by train. Or it could be this way: Bombay to Gwalior by plane and then by bus or car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long it takes from Gwalior to there by car?

Mr. Dwivedi: About three hours or two hours and half, something like that. Seventy-five miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road is it?

Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road?

Mr. Dwivedi: Road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road? Good road?

Mr. Dwivedi: Car road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Car road.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, throughout.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Winding? No.

Mr. Dwivedi: No. That, little winding.

Prabhupāda: So why not go by train to Jhansi?

Mr. Dwivedi: The same thing. It's equidistant from Gwalior and Jhansi. If you... Jhansi... I say Gwalior because there is plane service. There is no plane service to Jhansi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then from Jhansi to here, how many...?

Mr. Dwivedi: Same, seventy-five miles. As from Gwalior, so from Jhansi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two and a half, three hours.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five miles, it is two hours. That's all.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, about two hours...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If it's a good road, two hours.

Mr. Dwivedi: So also from Savai Madapur, equidistant.

Prabhupāda: So by train, where it is convenient?

Mr. Dwivedi: If we travel by car, then Gwalior will be better. Or even if we get down at Jhansi, that will also be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which is better by car, from Gwalior or Jhansi?

Mr. Dwivedi: Just the same. Just the same. Gwalior will be slightly convenient in this way, that you get down at Gwalior, then I have my own house at Gwalior, so at our own house we have little rest, take our food and then start. The plane also reaches there from Bombay, say, about 12:30 or so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A direct flight between here and Gwalior? Direct?

Indian man: No, that is via Indore...

Mr. Dwivedi: Indore, Bhopal, Gwalior. That's it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not good. Better to go by train, Prabhupāda.

Mr. Dwivedi: If you go by train...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Mr. Dwivedi: ...the train reaches about one o'clock roundabout. One-thirty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many hours from Bombay by train?

Mr. Dwivedi: Twenty-four hours. We start here... No, it's twenty-two hours.

Prabhupāda: There are so many trains, Bombay to Jhan...

Mr. Dwivedi: No, the fastest train is Punjab Mail, train to Jhansi. Punjab Mail. It starts quarter past four and reaches Gwalior about...

Indian man: Two o'clock.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...oh, just 1:30 or so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Afternoon.

Mr. Dwivedi: Afternoon, the next day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we could... It reaches Gwalior.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we could get down at your house...

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and wait till it cools down. Better to travel, say, about four o'clock. By then the sun is going down. It's cooler.

Prabhupāda: Or we can start in the morning.

Mr. Dwivedi: Or we can start in the evening, spend the noon there at my house, and, say, we start about four o'clock... When I left Gwalior just three, four days back it was, Gwalior itself was, also quite pleasant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about staying overnight in your house and leaving the next morning?

Mr. Dwivedi: That will also be quite fine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Morning is the best time for...

Mr. Dwivedi: Morning, evening, anytime is quite good. In the morning... Of course, morning is always cooler, and such better.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then we can rest up a little bit.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we have to travel by car after long train ride, it will be exhausting to Prabhupāda. For everybody.

Mr. Dwivedi: So even if you want to travel by car, then...

Prabhupāda: No, we can get our car from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana to Gwalior, how many miles?

Mr. Dwivedi: About a little over hundred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's nothing at all.

Indian man: Three and a half hours maybe.

Prabhupāda: So we can get our car from Vṛndāvana.

Mr. Dwivedi: From Vṛndāvana your car can come to Gwalior.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Mr. Dwivedi: And take you over there.

Prabhupāda: So why not make arrangement like that, so that we can immediately take up? The buildings are there. We can begin work immediately.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, yes, yes. Buildings, big hall. For instance, in our college building, the, our... Just as you have got this open enclosure, it's bigger, I think, much bigger than this, to accommodate easily about a thousand people.

Prabhupāda: I think we should arrange like that. Let us arrange. So where you are staying now?

Mr. Dwivedi: I am staying at Narancha(?). We have our own flat on this paper route, Abhesivasana's flat here in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: I see. If you like, you can stay here also.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, I have got because... I come here. I have to look after. We are running that paper, Rural India. It's again forty-years-old paper, and I shall be only too happy if Your Holiness just to give it just a little new direction.

Prabhupāda: Yes...

Mr. Dwivedi: We are selling a few copies to America, to France, to England also.

Prabhupāda: So... No, if you so desire, you can stay here. We have got accommodation, fooding, everything.

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) Because I have to do work in the night.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Mr. Dwivedi: So to correspond, I have got...

Prabhupāda: All right. So...

Mr. Dwivedi: Either you might keep this way, that... Just fix up some date so I shall also get myself ready accordingly, fixed up, finish up my other...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many days you are intending to stay now in Bombay?

Mr. Dwivedi: I am leaving on the 25th night. Then, on... I am reaching there 26th night. On the 27th I have to attend the marriage of my younger brother's son. That will take about two days, to 27th and 28th. And then, then, till about the 3rd I am busy in the sense that our president of Abhesivasana(?), he expired recently. So he left two sons. They... They just need my little guidances in such matters, the young boys. Not young; pretty old, but yet, because they, being the sons of a yajnir-datta(?), did not much look up to the work, now suddenly the responsibility has fallen over their heads. So... But after the 3rd or 4th, I am free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good. Gives a little time for preparing.

Mr. Dwivedi: The weather at our headquarters is always pleasant. Summer, very pleasant. You'll gain in weight.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Mr. Dwivedi: And strange enough, you gain in color also in summer.

Prabhupāda: Attractive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Said the right thing.

Mr. Dwivedi: Strange enough. And strange enough, this paper that we produce there, the worms do not eat it. And I shall be able to show you some of our record, registered, thirty, forty years old, registered, as good as they were then.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is the drinking water?

Mr. Dwivedi: Fine. Very fine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have well, deep well.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, we have got deep wells. And the water of our wells, particularly of the college well, is the best in the area.

Prabhupāda: So let us arrange like that. So... So let us arrange. Let us go there. If it is cooperation available, we take immediately. There is no doubt. Because we want to organize every village. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Not only your vill...

Mr. Dwivedi: So ours has been an institution, signed and all that. We're carrying things in the majority, but really...

Prabhupāda: So now one thing...

Mr. Dwivedi: ...we are working under the direction of our guru.

Prabhupāda: ...can be said in the meantime, how this property...

Mr. Dwivedi: He started all this. (showing paper) He is my guru. He started this, all the activities there. And we were all working under his directions. When we had our, say, our discussions, if he liked, he said, "All right." If he did not like, if...

Prabhupāda: And that should be.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...he advised, "It has to be done this way," then no further discussion in the matter. Everybody would carry out what he said.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Mr. Dwivedi: And that is what... So long, at least, I am alive, I want to carry on.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Mr. Dwivedi: And happily, in you I find a guru.

Prabhupāda: And my order means Bhagavad-gītā. We don't say anything extra. That is our principle. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "You become guru." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā... You understand Bengali?

Mr. Dwivedi: Just smattering of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Suppose you are living in that village. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "You become a guru here." Here. You haven't got to go out. Ei deśa, "where you are living." Just see how nice it is. Āmāra ājñāya: "By My order, you become a guru and deliver the people of this place." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So "I am not educated, I do not know. How I shall become?" No, you haven't got to bother. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128): "Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, you'll become guru." That's all. Everyone can do that. Gītā is there. You sit down in your place and preach Bhagavad-gītā and try to induce them to take it. You become guru. But these rascals, they are becoming guru and showing magic and so many jugglery, not Gītā-upadeśa, and spoil the whole country. Anyway, whatever is done is done. Now Kṛṣṇa has sent you. You have got all arrangement. I am prepared. I am asking my secretary to make arrangement. Let us cooperate. It will be very nice. Mr. Dwivedi is very nice man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Now you have got experience. Immediately take it, and let us go practically, some of us, and cooperate. I have decided like that.

Mr. Dwivedi: Some rough date?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rough date means when you're free.

Mr. Dwivedi: Little difference... There will be difference, one or two days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're free, you said, by the 3rd.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, on the 3rd I shall be free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what day is the 3rd? We can come any time after you're free—3rd, 4th, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If it's convenient to you, then we can come.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, it is quite convenient to me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have no other program pending now.

Mr. Dwivedi: Then you want to do this way? I send a letter and a wire over to you on the 2nd or 3rd itself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the thing is, we need at least ten days to make the train booking. Booking by train requires ten days to get reservations.

Mr. Dwivedi: Oh, I see. Then it will be right next week that you kindly have your booking, any time after 3rd.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any time after 3rd. So we'll make the booking, and then we'll telegram and write you the time of the arrival, day, etcetera, everything. We'll convey to you.

Mr. Dwivedi: Then I give you my Gwalior address, where your car has to come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you give me all of the addresses.

Prabhupāda: Details.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can do this, if you like Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the next room.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us all go there. We can finish now with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and then we can go and write everything down in my office.

Mr. Dwivedi: So my people need not come here now.

Prabhupāda: No. We are going.

Mr. Dwivedi: My... Their good luck in taking Your Holiness over there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Instead of the mouse going to the hill, let the hill go.

Mr. Dwivedi: (laughing) Hill go to the mouse.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Prasādam?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (end)