680616 - Lecture SB 07.06.03 - Montreal
(Redirected from Lecture on SB 7.6.3 -- Montreal, June 16, 1968)
Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalacaraṇa prayers)
- oṁ ajāna-timirāndhasya
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
- sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale
- svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ
- dadāti sva-padāntikam
- vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca
- śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam
- sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ
- śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca
- he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho
- dīna-bandho jagat-pate
- gopeśa gopikā-kānta
- rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te
- rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
- vṛṣabhānu-sute devi
- praṇamāmi hari-priye
- vānchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca
- kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
- patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo
- vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ
- śrī-advaita gadādhara
- hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
- hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare
So we have discussed some of the symptoms of this age. There is a long list of other symptoms. We have summarily discussed some of the symptoms for the last few days, and again we are going to the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement of the boy Prahlāda, who was teaching, or agitating, his class fellows to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
So, so far the symptoms of this age are concerned, it will gradually deteriorate. Gradually. We have got experience also, practical. Things are moving very rapidly towards worst, not towards best. Things are moving very rapidly. This is the symptom of this age. So our program is that they are trying to adjust things. Things cannot be adjusted unless we stand on the spiritual platform, because the actual necessity is spiritual demand.
The best example is your country. Materially, you are so much advanced. No other country can be compared. But a section of younger generation, they feel frustrated, confused. Why? They are brought up very nicely. The government system is very nice. They can get education. Everything is complete. But still, they are not happy; they are finding something else which will make them happy. Why? This is spiritual demand. Just like this child cannot express what is the trouble. Maybe some ant is there within the bedding, and it is cutting on his delicate body, but she cannot express what is the actual trouble. Cries; expression of difficulty.
So this frustration, confusion, is expression of spiritual unhealthiness. Because actually we are spirit. That we do not know. Suppose you have got a very nice coat, and within that coat you are actually, so far we are concerned at the present moment. Now, if you simply take care of the coat and shirt, and if you don't take care of your actual person, how long you can become happy? You will feel so much inconvenience even if you have got a very nice coat.
Similarly, this body, this gross body, is just like our coat. I am actually spiritual spark. This body, gross outward covering, and there is inward covering: mind, intelligence and ego. That is my shirt. So shirt and coat. And within the shirt and coat, actually I am there.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhiras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
There are many examples. Just like in a nice cage, in a golden cage, there is a bird. If you don't give any food to the bird and simply wash the cage very nicely, oh, there will be always, (imitates bird) "chi chi chi chi chi." Why? The real bird is neglected. Simply outward covering. So similarly, I am spirit soul. That I forgot. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." I am not this body, not this mind.
So people are trying to burnish the body and the mind. First of all they try to burnish the body. This is material civilization. Very nice clothing, very nice food, very nice apartment, very nice car or very nice sense enjoyment—everything is very nice. But that is to this body. And when one is frustrated to this very nice arrangement, then he goes to the mind: poetry, mental speculation, LSD, marijuana, drinking and so many things. These are all mental.
Actually, happiness is not there in the body, nor in the mind. Real happiness is in the spirit. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21). The real, the ultimate happiness is that which is beyond this material sense. Ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya. Atīndriya means—indriya means the senses—transcendental to the senses. That means that spiritual. There are many instruction and practical also.
So unless we go to the spiritual platform, we cannot have actual happiness. That is the instruction Prahlāda Mahārāja is giving, that sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām (SB 7.6.3). The happiness perceived by contact of senses or contact of body, sukham aindriyakam . . . our present appreciation of happiness is due to the senses, and these particular senses are according to the particular body. Deha-yogena dehinām.
The other day we have explained that a hog, because he has got a particular type of body, his sense gratification is to eat stool. His body is so made that he will feel happy by eating stool. Similarly, another man, his body is so made that he will be happy to have kṛṣṇa-prasāda. So that we can make by Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . .
(break) . . . change the habit of the body. That is possible. How it is possible? By knowledge. The hog cannot be educated. His body is so condemned that it is not possible to educate the hog or the dog or the cat or the animal. Here is a body, by education one can become from doggish habit to goddish habit. That is possible.
So we have to take advantage. That is explained in the first verse by . . . Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam (SB 7.6.1): "This human form of body, it is very rarely obtained. It is not to be misused." That is the first knowledge. But people are not educated in that way. They are encouraged that go on, sense enjoyment, "Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy." Some rascal comes, so he also says, "All right, go on. Enjoy. Simply meditate for fifteen minutes."
But actually, this body is not meant for aggravating sense enjoyment. We require sense enjoyment, because that is a demand of the body. If we want to keep body in healthy condition, then the demands of the body—eating, sleeping, mating and defending—must be provided. But it should not be aggravated. Therefore in the human form of life, tapasya. Tapasya means austerity, penance, vow.
These are the teachings of all scriptures. Either you take Hindu scripture or Christian scripture or Muhammadan scripture, in every scripture human form of life is meant for training. Tapo divyam. Lord Ṛṣabha, He instructed His boys. He had one hundred children, boys. So He instructed them:
- nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
- kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye
- (SB 5.5.1)
"My dear boys, this form, human form of life, although it is a body, but this body is in human society." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means . . . nṛ means man. "So when the body is obtained in the human society—not in the dog society, not in the cat society—that body is not meant for simply working very hard and ultimate sense gratification." That's all.
People are being taught in this way that, "Work very hard day and night, earn money and enjoy senses," nothing more. So this sort of civilization is condemned. The real civilization is that one has to control. Control. What is the difference between a man and an animal? Now, suppose there is very nice foodstuff. In your country it is not seen; in our India, the foodstuff, I mean to say, confectioner, they very nicely decorate in the street for selling. So one cow is . . . here, of course, in the street, cow is also not visible. In India, in the street, there are many cows. They are allowed to move free. And sometimes the foodstuff is there, and the cow immediately grabs the foodstuff and eats half of it. You see? (laughter)
Now, there are human beings also. Suppose a man is here. He is poor man, he is hungry, and he wants to eat that foodstuff. But because he is human being, he has got the control. He is not like, I mean to say, cow, that immediately takes up the foodstuff. Even if he is poor, he can beg, "My dear sir, can you spare little foodstuff?" But he'll not . . . this is human, humanity.
Suppose if there is a beautiful girl and one man is attracted, still, he will feel shame to capture that girl. Of course, here I see the boys and girls, they are kissing in the street, and in India it is very uncivil. No boy, no girls will do that, because it is a training. It is a training. So by training, one can restrain the senses. And the more you restrain your senses, the more you become slackened for these material shackles.
So therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "If you think that sense enjoyment is the pleasure of life, that can be had in all sorts of other bodies." The hog also has got sense enjoyment, the dog also has got sense enjoyment. They are not forbidden. Nature has provided sense enjoyment for cats, dogs and birds, beasts, everyone. Because that is a demand.
So human life . . . of course, this should be restricted, or as much as possible, as it is available without any extraneous endeavor. Just like we allow our students, "Get yourself married. So by grace of Kṛṣṇa the wife or the husband which you have, just live peacefully. But don't try to encroach upon other's wife or other's husband." That should be restrained. That is humanity.
So we have to live very peacefully so that we may not be disturbed in our material existence. But our ultimate aim should be spiritual realization. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehi . . . sarvatra labhyate (SB 7.6.3). If you are after sense enjoyment . . . sarvatra means in all species of life. Suppose you happen to get a body, next body, as a hog, as a dog, or even lower than that, that sense enjoyment will be there. But this opportunity will not be there. This opportunity, to make yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious and just to leave this condemned place and go back to Godhead, that opportunity will not be there. That opportunity is for the human being. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param (SB 7.6.4): "Therefore we should not simply waste our time for improving the paraphernalia of sense enjoyment."
The modern civilization is simply increasing the paraphernalia of sense enjoyment. There is no arrangement for advancement of spiritual knowledge. That is the defect of modern civilization. And Prahlāda Mahārāja says that:
- sarvatra labhyate daivād
- yathā dukḥam ayatnataḥ
- (SB 7.6.3)
- tat-prayāso na kartavyo
- yata āyur-vyayaḥ param
- (SB 7.6.4)
If you waste our time . . . we should . . . every one of us should always be conscious that this human form of life, although the body is material and there are so many material demands, so we have to adjust things in such a way that my major portion of my attention or energy may be employed for advancing spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be the motto of our life.
Because we have got limited energy, limited life. Suppose you have to live for hundred years. I think nobody is going to live for hundred years, but supposing if you live for hundred years, so your energy is limited, your duration of life is limited. Suppose I am old man. I have to live for, say, eighty years or ninety years. So seventy-two years I am now. That means I have already died seventy-two years. The balance portion of my life I have to complete.
We are dying every moment. That is medical science. We are changing every moment body and dying every moment. Death is accompanying me from the day of my birth. This child—if you ask, "How old this child?" "Oh, it is one month," that means he has already died one month. One month death is already there. We say that he is growing. No. He is decreasing. This is . . . actual fact is decreasing. Therefore we should not waste our time. We should be very serious about our life.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param. Āyur means duration of life—simply wasted. Simply wasted. Why simply wasted? Because for sense enjoyment, whatever you have to get, that is already arranged. If you are a cat, oh, your sense enjoyment is already arranged. If you are a dog, oh, your sense enjoyment already arranged. Similarly, if you are a human being, your sense enjoyment . . . if a cat can have sense enjoyment without arranging for it, if a dog can have sense enjoyment without arranging for it, do you think that a human being will not have sense enjoyment without arranging for it? Then why should you waste your time for sense enjoyment? The arrangement is already there by nature.
A man or woman has to satisfy his senses. By nature there is arrangement. Rest assured. Don't waste your time for improving sense enjoyment. That means wasting time. You cannot get more than what is destined to you. A dog or a cat cannot get more sense enjoyment than its body will allow. Similarly, we have got particular type of body according to our association of different modes of material nature. Now we have got, say, about hundred men or fifty or sixty men sitting here. Nobody's body will be just equal to the other's body. You examine. Every body is different from other's body. Nobody's face will be exactly this face of the other man.
So by nature's process the subtle law is such nice that according to the association of the modes of material nature, you have got a particular type of body. That means you are meant for a particular standard of sense enjoyment. Suppose your body is born in a low family—you cannot expect sense enjoyment as the higher grade persons, they enjoy. That is not possible. So one should be satisfied, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has given me this body, and He has given me this arrangement of sense enjoyment. Let me be satisfied. My real business is how to advance my Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
So Prahlāda Mahārāja advises very nicely, "My dear friend," tat-prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param, "don't exert yourself for increasing the paraphernalia of sense enjoyment. That is simply wasting your valuable time, your valuable duration of life." Because we must know, the duration of life is limited. That will finish. "As sure as death." And before death comes again, we must prepare in such a nice way—no more death, no more birth. That is education.
Therefore Bhāgavata says that, "He is not a spiritual master. He is not a father. He is not a mother. He is not a friend." In this way. "He is not a husband." Who? "Who cannot protect his ward from the impending death." That means the father, the spiritual master, the husband or the protector should be so spiritually advanced that he will teach, he will protect his ward in such a nice way that no more birth, no more death. In this life Kṛṣṇa consciousness education is finished so that after leaving this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9): after quitting this body, no more birth again. Then what is that? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya (BG 4.9): he goes back to Godhead.
This should be the, I mean to say, objective of human life: how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness and how to get away from this uncongenial atmosphere of material existence. Unless we understand that . . . but people, they think that they are very happy. This is illusion. This is māyā.
- tat-prayāso na kartavyo
- yata āyur-vyayaḥ param
- na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ
- (SB 7.6.4)
So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na tathā vindate kṣemam. Kṣemam means auspicity. The highest auspicity of life is to reconnect his lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. This is called yoga. Real yoga means this, that we are, at the present moment we have lost our consciousness. Not actually we have lost our consciousness; we have lost our memory.
Consciousness is there, but consciousness may be differently contaminated. Different person, your consciousness may be different from my consciousness. You are thinking in a different way, I am thinking in different way. Similarly, consciousness is there. That is a symptom of life, symptom of spirit soul. But the difference is due to material contamination.
Just like superficially your blood and my blood, the same, red. But if we analyze, oh, there may be so many chemicals present in your blood, and so many chemicals may be present which is not exactly equal. Similarly, as soon as there is life and there is spirit soul, the focus of the spirit soul, consciousness, must be there. I am present in this body—how I can understand? Because this consciousness. You pinch any part of your body, you feel. This is your consciousness. That means I am present in this body. And as soon as I am away from this body, you may cut this body into pieces—there will be no consciousness; there is no feeling.
So our consciousness should be purified. Now the consciousness is contaminated by material association in so many ways. Just like the blood purification tonic is given. If the doctor finds by examination of the blood . . . in your country, as soon as you go to a doctor, immediately, "Please offer your blood." The demand is immediately blood. That is, of course, scientific, modern science. But according to Āyurvedic system, there is no demand of blood. They feel the pulse, and according to the different, I mean to say, movement of the pulse, they can understand what kind of disease is there. All right, that is a medical science.
So anyway, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ: "Instead of wasting your time for increasing the standard of sense gratification, the best thing will be to apply your energy for reviving your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. Na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ mukunda-caraṇāmbujam. Tat-prayāso kartavyo: "That endeavor should be done by which your time is not wasted, but you can revive, you can purify your consciousness, you can revive yourself to your original position, and that is your highest gain."
- tato yateta kuśalaḥ
- kṣemāyā bhavam āśritaḥ
- śarīraṁ puruṣaṁ yāvan
- na vipadyeta puṣkalam
- (SB 7.6.5)
"My dear friends, therefore, so long the body is not fallen, or so long death does not come," śarīraṁ, tato yateta kuśalam, "you must try for the highest benediction, kuśalaḥ." Kuśala means benediction. "So long you are in this body, please try to achieve that success, full Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyus tad-ardhaṁ cājitātmanaḥ (SB 7.6.6). Now, supposing that we have got hundred years of age. Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that although you have got one hundred years to live, but because we cannot control our senses, therefore it should be taken half, fifty years. Why? That because out of twenty-four hours, we sleep more than twelve hours. So while we sleep, there is no activity. So immediately you cut off fifty years because you cannot work.
Although you have got duration of life one hundred years, but you cannot work one hundred years. Fifty years immediately cut off on account of ajitātmanaḥ. Ajitātmanaḥ means one who has not controlled the senses. So every one of us cannot control, most of us. Therefore half of the age is immediately cut off. Niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ. Why it is cut off? "Because without any profit we sleep very soundly, and therefore it is simply wasted."
Then, mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīḍato yāti viṁśatiḥ (SB 7.6.7). Then suppose there is fifty years' balance, oh, sufficient balance. Then he says, bālye kaiśore. Bālye means up to five years. And from five years to eleven years, bālye kaiśore. Because children, generally, from five years to twelve, thirteen years, they are very fond of playing. So niṣphalaṁ mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīḍato yāti viṁśati (SB 7.6.7): "Twenty years is wasted simply for playing." So half duration of life immediately cut off. Then again, out of that fifty years, again twenty years cut off.
Then jarayā grasta-dehasya yāty akalpasya viṁśatiḥ: then cut off another twenty years due to old age, invalidity, and so many other, accidents, and so many other things. So it is cutting, cutting, cutting.
- durāpūreṇa kāmena
- mohena ca balīyasā
- śeṣam gṛheṣu saktasya
- pramattasyāpayāti hi
- (SB 7.6.8)
"In this way, when a man is too much addicted to the materialistic way of life, cannot give up the family life . . ." You'll find many old men, almost going to die, but still, there is family attachment. It is very difficult to get out of family attachment. Although the other members—his wife, his son—disgusted with the old man, and all of them want that "This old man may die very soon. He is simply bothering us," but the old man tries to live: "Oh, let me live for some time. Don't drive me away."
I understand that in Russia they intentionally try to kill these old men (laughter). And in Africa, I have heard, there are still cannibals. They make a feast by killing the grandfather. (laughter) So old man is always neglected in the society, and therefore I have come out of my home—I have taken your shelter. You see? (laughter) It is actually a fact. You see?
So in this way we are wasting our time. Śaṅkarācārya, he was walking on the street and he was lamenting, because he has got the eyes to see. What he said? He said: "Oh," bālas tāvad kridāsaktaḥ, "oh, all the boys I see in the street, they are very nicely playing. They do not know anything except play." Bālas tāvad kridāsaktas taruṇas tāvad taruṇī raktaḥ: "And the young, youngsters, they are after young girls, embracing, kissing. That's all." So taruṇas tāvad taruṇī raktaḥ. And vṛddhas tāvad cintā-magnaḥ: "And the old men, they are thinking, 'How to pull on? What to do? How to adjust family affairs?' "
Parame brāhmaṇe ko 'pi lagnaḥ: "Oh, it is very lamentable. Nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He is lamenting, because he has got to . . . he has seeing practically. A sannyāsī is supposed to wander from one country, one village to another. So he is lamenting, bālas tāvad kridāsaktaḥ: "Oh, boys are playing. They are not being trained in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The youths, they are very much enjoying. So the old men, they are thinking, deep, thoughtful, the same thing. But nobody is interested."
So same thing:
- durāpūreṇa kāmena
- mohena ca balīyasā
- śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya
- pramattasyāpayāti hi
- (SB 7.6.8)
At the last end, the old men . . . because this material world is such a nice place that nobody can adjust things. It is simply waste of time, who are trying to adjust things. The other day, in television or radio, the man asked me, "Swāmījī, whether it is possible to adjust the misadjustments of this material world?" I told him flatly that it is not possible. You can simply refer the history that the same thing is rep . . . "History repeats itself." When there was Roman Empire, Mogul Empire, the same strife, the same political dissension, the same fight. Everything was there, say, two thousand years before, as history gives us evidence, and the same thing is happening also.
So there is no adjustment. The only adjustment is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long your life is there, you just improve, revive your original consciousness. What is that? "Kṛṣṇa, or the Lord, or God, is great. I am His eternal servant." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Kṛṣṇa" means the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and "I" means I am His eternal part and parcel. Every one of us—servant. Everyone. Now, you are all, boys, ladies and gentlemen, sitting here. Nobody can say that "I am not servant." Everyone is servant. Everyone is servant. If he is not servant to anyone, at least he is servant of a dog. You see?
So servant we are, but we are thinking, "I am master." This is māyā. This is māyā. Actually I am servant. I am serving this, that, that, that—so many. Even President Johnson, he is also servant of the nation. So nobody is master. Similarly, if you take president, if you go higher, if you go up to Brahmā, if you go still more, more—everyone is servant.
Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is very nicely said that ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142): "The only one master is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is servant." The only one master is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all other living entities, they are all servant. He may be a Brahmā, he may be a president, he may be a minister, or he may be a cat, or he may be a dog, or whatever he may be, everyone is servant. And to understand this philosophy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
It is not very difficult. It is not very difficult, if we understand our position. But māyā's spell is so nice that everyone is thinking, "I am master," "I am president," "I am minister," "I am teacher," "I am philosopher," "I am scientist," "I am this," "I am that"—at last, "I am God." (laughter) When everything fails, when everything fails, he thinks, "Oh, I am God," although he is still a dog. You see? This is called māyā. And to get out of māyā means to understand one's position, that "I am eternal servant." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
And the further advancement of this understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that, that "If I am constitutionally a servant, then what sort of service I am rendering?" Oh, kāmAdināṁ kati na katidhā palita durnideśāḥ (CC Madhya 22.16): "I have become servant of my lust, of my greediness, of my avarice, of my anger, of my senses." That's all. I have become servant of all these things. Actually I am nobody's servant, but I am servant of my senses. When I go to work somewhere, actually I do not believe that I am a servant, but I go there to get money. So I am servant of money. And why I require money? For sense gratification. Therefore I am servant of senses.
So actually I am now servant of senses, everyone. So that has to be transferred. Instead of being servant of the senses, of your so-called material body, you have to become the servant of the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means agreeing, "Kṛṣṇa, whatever You will say, whatever You like, I shall do that," just like Arjuna did.
First of all he was a servant of his senses. He was thinking, "How can I kill my teachers? How can I kill my grandfather, my brother, nephews, the other side, all my relatives? How can I kill?" So that was, that thinking was, he was servant of his senses. He was thinking that, "This father, this brother or this grandfather or this teacher will save me." But when he understood that "Nobody can save me except Kṛṣṇa," then he said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73): "Oh, I shall satisfy You, whatever You say." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all he was trying to satisfy his senses, and when he understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely, he agreed to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa.
So constitutionally we are all servant for satisfying senses. So when instead of satisfying our false senses, this material body, sense of this material body, if we try to satisfy the spiritual senses of Kṛṣṇa, that means our liberation. That we have to learn. Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching that philosophy, and we are trying to follow the same philosophy. We are very glad that you come and favor us. So it is very kind of you.
Now if there is any question you can ask.
Guest (1): Swāmījī, I've always been confused by the term "serving God," "serving Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: You are . . .?
Guest (1): It's confusing to me.
Prabhupāda: It is confusing?
Guest (1): Yes. I can understand how I can serve my own senses or how I can serve another man, but serving God . . .
Prabhupāda: You are serving your senses means you are serving the dictation of your senses. Is it not?
Guest (1): Right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, if you serve the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, then you serve Kṛṣṇa. You are serving your senses means your eyes want to see a beautiful thing, dictates, "My dear sir, please take me to that beautiful." You go. So you are serving your dictation of the sense gratification of the eyes. Your tongue is pinching you, "Please give me a cigarette." Oh, you at once supply, "Yes." So you are serving your senses means the dictation of your senses. Similarly, if you practice to serve the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. Simply you have to change the account. That's all. Your service position will continue, because we are eternally servants. You are never master.
Guest (1): Well, when I . . . serving my senses . . .
Prabhupāda: Then you are conditioned.
Guest (1): . . . attempting to satisfy them. Right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is for satisfaction. But if you, sense . . . if you falsely satisfy your senses . . . just like suppose you are a diseased man. If you have got fever, and you want to eat some delicious food, the doctor has forbidden you, "Don't accept such-and-such food." But your senses demand that, "If I could eat such-and-such thing," then you become more diseased.
So first of all we should understand that because I have got this body, it is my diseased condition. Because I am spirit soul. I have developed this particular type of body for this gratification of false material senses. You cannot satisfy your senses, because this is false satisfaction. Because actually this body . . . you are not this body. Therefore even you try to satisfy your senses, that is flickering and that is temporary. But actual sense enjoyment is spiritual sense enjoyment that has no end, that has no limit. Brahma-saukhyaṁ tad anantam (SB 5.5.1), unlimited.
Just like a diseased man, if you give a nice foodstuff, he cannot eat much. After tasting, "All right, that's all." Finished. Because he is diseased. And give to a healthy man, oh, he will take so much. This is a crude example. Similarly, when you are spiritually purified, then actually you can make your sense enjoyment. When you are materially contaminated, that is false, temporary, increasing your material disease.
Guest (1): So by serving Kṛṣṇa, serving . . .
Prabhupāda: By serving Kṛṣṇa you will also satisfy your senses. Kṛṣṇa's name is Govinda. Go means senses, and vinda means one who gives pleasure to the senses. Do you mean to say that here the boys who are giving service to the, I mean to say, Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, they are not enjoying? Without enjoying can they serve free? They are giving service free. Whenever you go to render some service, you immediately demand some money. But here in this temple, so many young boys, they are giving service free. Not only that: whatever they are earning, they are also paying Kṛṣṇa. So do you think unless they get some enjoyment they are doing it foolishly?
Sense enjoyment must be there, but that is spiritual sense enjoyment, purified sense enjoyment. We are training people in that way, that we don't stop your sense enjoyment, but enjoy it in its purified state. Because sense enjoyment cannot be stopped. You are living entity, living being; the senses are there. But we do not know the way of sense enjoyment. That is to be learned by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Śāradīyā: Swāmījī? When we go to Kṛṣṇaloka to be with Kṛṣṇa, do we . . . does Kṛṣṇa . . .
Prabhupāda: Just see this girl, little girl, is aiming for going back to Kṛṣṇaloka. Just see. (laughter) I am giving an example. They don't care for this material senses. They are always thinking, "When I shall go there, home, back to home, back to Godhead?" This is the psychology.
Śāradīyā: When we serve Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . even though we don't have a material body?
Prabhupāda: No. Material body you have to finish here. You are finishing your material body so many times, even during this bodily existence. So material body cannot go into spiritual world. You just . . . you have your material body here. Similarly, as soon as you enter in the spiritual world you have spiritual body.
Śāradīyā: We have a spiritual senses to serve Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: As good as Kṛṣṇa's body. Kṛṣṇa has got spiritual body, similarly, you will have spiritual body. Is that clear?
Śāradīyā: I want to know, when we serve Kṛṣṇa, do we have spiritual senses, then that satisfies our spiritual senses when we serve Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇaloka?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You dance with Kṛṣṇa, you eat with Kṛṣṇa, you talk with Kṛṣṇa, you enjoy with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will kiss you also. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa is very kind to everyone, either you love Him as a lover, either you love Him as your son, either you love Him as your friend, or you love Him as your master. In whichever way you like you can love, and Kṛṣṇa will respond. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the Bhagavad-gītā you will see Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who loves Me in different ways or different types," so Kṛṣṇa also loves reciprocating that way. If somebody Kṛṣṇa . . . loves Kṛṣṇa as enemy, Kṛṣṇa also gives him salvation in that way also. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Yes.
Devotee (2): Swāmījī, I think this man's question needs a little bit more clarification. He was asking how do we know what Kṛṣṇa dictates, by what authority. How do we know how we can serve Kṛṣṇa? Is that your question? How do we know how we can serve Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (1): Yes. Well, I, one thing . . .
Prabhupāda: That I have answered, that you can serve Kṛṣṇa by following the dictation of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not clear? Then the next question may be how you receive dictation of Kṛṣṇa. Is that?
Guest (1): Right. Yes. That would be the next question (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter (laughter) evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Just like you call this "table." How you understand this is table? You have taken the idea from your parents. And wherefrom your parents got this idea that this is a table? They also got from their parents. Therefore this idea of table—you do not say anything else—is received by succession. Similarly, you can receive succession order from Kṛṣṇa through spiritual master.
Guest (2): Swāmījī, what . . . you said that sleep is complete waste of time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you cannot work then.
Guest (2): What about dreaming?
Prabhupāda: Dreaming is still waste of time. (laughter)
Guest (2): Is it possible to have Kṛṣṇa consciousness when you are asleep?
Prabhupāda: Dreaming is practically interaction of the activities, mental interaction of the activities in which you are engaged. You dream in different way, I dream in different way. So when the body is tired, it cannot work. It stops functioning. The mind works. So dreaming is the function of the mind. That's all. So . . . huh?
Guest (2): . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. It is not from the spiritual platform, it is from the mental platform. In the spiritual platform, that is called suṣupti. There is no gross or material function of this contamination. So those who are advanced, they also dream Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, that requires time to make little advancement. But after all, dream is the activities of the mind. Just like we work, that is the activities of the gross senses. Similarly, we work also on mental platform. That is called dream.
Guest (3): Are we to take Kṛṣṇa conscious dreams seriously or as some illusion?
Prabhupāda: Well, that depends on your particular position, you see. Sometimes a Kṛṣṇa conscious persons dreams very seriously. Sometimes communication is there by dream.
Guest (4): Normal sleep for a man would be about eight hours. So is it possible to train the body through the use of yoga to decrease the sleep period down to about three hours or two hours?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Rūpa Gosvāmī, he used to sleep only for one and a half hours.
Guest (4): How long could the body hold up? How many years could the body . . .
Prabhupāda: Well, there is no guarantee of holding up your body even if you have no sleep or have sleep. The material condition is so cruel that body can be finished at any moment. So that is no consideration. The consideration is how to advance in the spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you make, I mean to say, considerable advance, then the eating and sleeping and sex demand or defense, these things will be negligible. Negligible.
These things are depending on our practice. Because actually, I don't depend on sleeping or eating or mating or defending. It is simply due to my bodily consciousness these things are required. But when one is actually spiritually advanced, he has no such appreciation. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified, but he never protested, because he had no bodily consciousness at all.
So when one is spiritually advanced, there is no bodily consciousness. But we should not imitate. That requires advancement, as we have mentioned. Nothing has to be done in hasty. But if we follow the rules and regulation, then someday it will be experienced that how we have spiritually advanced. Just like if you go on eating, not that in the first eating . . . first morsel, second morsel, you become immediately satisfied. But when you are full in your satisfaction of hunger, you feel happiness, you feel strength. Similarly, we have to follow the spiritual process, and gradually, as we develop, we become free from all these demands of the body.
There was Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was eating only, say, a few grains of butter every alternate day. Only. A few grains of butter only. Every alternate day he was eating. So eating is also nonessential, one who is spiritual advanced. And so-called sex life, oh, that can be given up from the very beginning. And so far defense, nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). One who is fully spiritually conscious, he doesn't care for death. He does not know what is the meaning of death, because he is living perpetually.
So these things are to be experienced when you are advanced. But this is possible. This is possible from the examples of great saintly persons, and from literature we can find that one can be completely free from the four demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating.
Girl: Did you say that having a family necessarily interferes with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee (1): Did you say that having a family necessarily interferes with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No. Nothing interferes if it is properly adjusted. Now here in our Society we are actually living in family. We have got brother, sisters, mother, father, everything. But there is adjustment. It is on the basis platform of love. There is no self-interest, therefore it is happy. So as soon as we turn everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the whole world becomes peaceful and happy.
Of course, that is not possible, but as far as possible we can do it familywise, we can do it individually. As much as possible we can extend. But the platform is such nice that in that platform the family life or friendly life or social life—everything becomes nice, joyful and peaceful. That is the test of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
All right. Thank you. Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)
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