680610 - Lecture SB 07.06.01 - Montreal

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



680610SB-MONTREAL - June 10, 1968 - 65:17 Minutes



Prabhupāda: (maṅgalācaraṇa prayers)

...śalākayā
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ
sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale
svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ
dadāti sva-padāntikam
vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca
śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam
sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ
śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca
he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho
dīna-bandho jagat-pate
gopeśa gopikā-kānta
rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te
tapta-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi
rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devi
praṇamāmi hari-priye
vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca
kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo
vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya
prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara
śrīvāsAdi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare
kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

This instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja to his class fellows we are discussing for the last few days. His point of view is that this bhāgavata-dharma, or the occupational duty in relationship with God. Everyone has got some sort of engagement, occupation. Bhāgavata says,

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in a particular type of occupational duty, never mind what is that occupation. You may be a religious priest, you may be a politician, you may be a nationalist, you may be a chemist, you may be a physist, you may be a philosopher, you may be a businessman, engineer—whatever you may be, it doesn't matter.

You may be Christian, you may be Hindu, you may be dark, you may be white, whatever is there, you have got a particular type of duty. Nobody is without any occupation. Everyone is engaged some sort of duty. The storekeeper is engaged in his business, the factory man is engaged in his business, the lawyer is engaged in his business. Everyone.

So Sūta Gosvāmī said, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are different kinds of duties according to the different division of the human society. That is a fact. Nobody can deny it. But how one can understand that the duty he is performing is successful? How one can understand? What is the test? You may be whatever you are doing, that doesn't matter. But how it is tested, that whatever you have done in your whole life, it has become successful.

The test is, according to Bhāgavatam, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Everyone's duty, the point of perfection is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13), whether by your duty you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the duty. Then it is perfect. You are a great scientist? Very good. But if you can prove scientifically that there is God, that is successful. Otherwise, it is nonsense.

If you prove that there is no God, God is dead by scientific method, it is simply lunacy, craziness. That's all. Similarly, if you are philosopher, very expert in mental speculation and writing volumes of books, speculative, but if you can prove that there is God, then your philosophy is perfect—any line you take.

Suppose you are a businessman. Formerly, in any part of the world... We have seen in your country, in my country, there are many old churches, old mosques, old temples. In India there are temples just like a fort—acres of land occupying big, big temples. So who has constructed these temples? Must be rich men, businessmen, landlords, princely order. Why? Because they wanted to satisfy God.

Either you manufacture..., either you construct a church or temple or mosque, it does not matter. The idea behind is that he wanted that he has labored so hard, he has accumulated so much money, "Let me spend something for God." But at the present moment there are so many skyscrapers, but nobody is constructing a nice church. This is the result of godless civilization. The mentality is changed, that formerly they... This bhāgavata-sūtra is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13).

I'll give you one practical example. In my householder life I was a drugstore businessman. So one Muhammadan gentleman, he was supplying me bottles. So by doing this bottle business he accumulated some money. So one day I asked this old man—his name was Abdula—"Well, Mr. Abdula, you have got some now money, I can understand. So how you are going to use it?" So he said, "My dear sir, I am thinking of constructing a mosque." He was Muhammadan. Just see his mentality, that he wanted... He accumulated some money, but now he wants to satisfy God, constructing a big temple or constructing...

You'll find in India some old temples, there are so many nice workmanship in stone. That means spent thousands and thousands of dollars. In here also I find so many nice churches, they have been spent by persons. What is the idea? The idea is anyone who has got some money, he wanted to satisfy God. So it doesn't matter what you are doing, but the test of your success will be considered as successful if you try to satisfy God.

Because we are, whole life, we are dragging from God. "God, give us our daily bread," and God is supplying daily bread. Otherwise, where you are getting bread? You say, "I am purchasing from the market." Oh, where the storekeeper got this wheat? It is produced by agriculture. But do you think that simply by machine it is produced? No. Unless there is some natural favorable condition, you cannot produce.

There are five causes: the land, labor, capital, organization, and Bhagavad-gītā accepts daiva, another cause. Daiva means godly. You may arrange everything, but if God is against you, in spite of your all arrangement, everything will be failure. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. They have searched out five causes for successful. So out of the five causes, daiva—daiva means the favor of God—that has been taken as the means for any successful thing.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching to his class friends that "My dear friends, you try to understand this bhāgavata-dharma." What is bhāgavata-dharma? This is Sanskrit word. Bhāgavata means pertaining to God. Bhagavān means God, and bhāgavata, pertaining to God, that is called bhāgavata. So bhāgavata-dharma means..., the purpose of bhāgavata-dharma means pertaining to my..., you have to test the success of your activities by pleasing God. That is bhāgavata-dharma.

Just like in your office you want to satisfy your boss. In your school or college you want to satisfy your teacher or principal. Similarly, the supreme teacher, the supreme boss, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). This is the sum and substance of bhāgavata-dharma, that one has to test the success of his activities. It doesn't matter what it is.

Now at the present moment in a godless civilization, if some great scientist proves... Just like Professor Einstein, he also said that as we are making advance in science we find that there is a big brain behind this cosmic manifestation. That is acceptance of God. What is that big brain? That big brain is God. The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmady asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Just like when you see a wonderful bridge or wonderful engineering work, you must think that there is a brain behind it. This nice construction, there is a brain behind it.

Similarly, those who are sane men, they'll see that with this cosmic..., in this cosmic manifestation, so wonderfully working. The sun is rising in due time, the moon is rising in due time, the seasons are being changed in due course, the rain is there, the produce is there, the fruit is there, everything is nicely arranged. So don't you think that there is a brain behind it? Must be. The Bhagavad-gītā says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Don't think that this material nature is working automatically or independently. There is a brain behind it.

The other day there was some difficulty in my Dictaphone, and the mechanic man came. He opened. So many arrangements of different kinds of wire. Similarly, we have got this body, a similar arrangement. The veins are so nicely arrangement, the intestines are so nicely arranged, just like the same way as in a machine the wirings are very nicely arranged.

So if for that machine there is a brain, don't you think that in this machine, behind this, there is no brain? There must be brain. This is commonsense affair. So this godless civilization means people have lost even common sense. Even common sense. Otherwise, you may, if you use in a harsh word, that they have become fools and rascals, that's all. They have lost their common sense.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja is stressing that this God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, should be learned from the very beginning of life. Kaumāra ācaret prājña. Prājña means one who is intelligent. So children, they have no intelligence. They have intelligence, but they have to be put into intelligence by the guardians.

So if the guardian, if the father and mother is intelligent, if the teacher is intelligent, if the government policy is intelligent, then the process should be to teach the small children from the very beginning of life God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise this world is going to hell. It has already gone, and it will go. The result will be that I'll kill you, you'll kill me. So both of us will be killed.

And this human form, or the facility of this human form of life, which was given to us by grace of God or by the mercy of material nature, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "Don't misuse it. Don't misuse it like animals, simply eating, sleeping and mating and defending." Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma (SB 7.6.1). Don't be assured that your next life is going again to be a human form of life. It may be... There are 8,400,000 species of life, and according to my work I may enter into any type of body. Durlabhaṁ.

Therefore this rare opportunity that we have got this human form of life, mānuṣaṁ durlabhaṁ janma..., durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. And it will not exist for very long time. But if you utilize it properly, then you can achieve the greatest boon. What is that? Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can achieve the greatest boon. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending that "From the very childhood, my dear friends, you learn what is God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, if you advance in age, then you'll be more complicated, more complicated."

Actually, we are experiencing. We have got about eight branches of our this movement. Not only this movement; any movement. Generally, these youngsters, they are being attracted. Any nice movement started, the youngsters, they become more attracted. Not the, I mean to say, elderly people. Because elderly people, whatever they have understood, it takes to forget for some time. But if they try they can also understand. But Prahlāda Mahārāja is recommending that before growing very old, from the childhood, receptive state, one should learn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Otherwise, he says,

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham
utsaheta vimocitum
(SB 7.6.9)

He has analyzed the life, that our duration of life may be for one hundred years. Out of that, fifty years we spoil by sleeping, because at night we sleep ten hours, twelve hours. There is twenty-four hours duration of day and night. So supposing that I sleep for twelve hours, day and night, then actually I live fifty years, because sleeping is death. That is also daily death. The sleeping...

What is the different between death and sleeping? There is no difference. Just like at the present moment we are sleeping, say, for twelve hours or eight hours or ten hours and getting up in the next morning, and death means we shall sleep for seven months continually, and when we get up I see another body. That is birth and death. That is birth and death.

Death means you give up this body. "You" means the soul. And you carry yourself with your subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. According to your mental situation you enter into the womb of a mother injected by the semina of your father; you get an opportunity to grow another body. It takes about seven months to grow that body. So during this period, I mean to say, quitting this body, entering into another body and to develop that body, come to the consciousness point of view, it takes seven months. So death means sleeping for seven months.

So this sleeping, our daily sleeping, is also a sample of death. We are experiencing for twelve hours only or ten hours only, but this death means you'll have to sleep for seven months, then when you wake up you'll see that you have got another body. That's all. Just like you are getting every moment a different body, similarly, death..., birth and death means to change this body and to get another, new body.

Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). The Bhagavad-gītā says that just like we change one set of garment which is not usable—we throw it away and take another set of garment—similarly, when this body is old enough, it cannot be pulled on, the machine has gone wrong, it cannot work anymore, that is called death. You stop breathing, but you are transferred, transmigrated to another body. So death we are experiencing daily.

So out of hundred years, old age, age, the span of life, we are practically dead for fifty years because we are sleeping. Then the fifty years, out of the remaining fifty years, in our childhood we are very much fond of sporting and playing. So twenty years by playing. So seventy years gone. Then during old age, family adjustment, so many things not done, thinking, thinking, another twenty years.

So in this way, unless we are trained up in our childhood about the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, it will be very difficult to take up this consciousness with our grown-up age. Prahlāda Mahārāja is therefore recommending, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1).

He's giving practical example that,

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham
utsaheta vimocitum
(SB 7.6.9)

When you are grown up... Nānu yauvane gṛhāsakto 'pi paśyad viraktaḥ syān kṣemaṁ yac chreyāt tat asambhavaṁ darśayan kaumāram eva ācaret. Now we have general tendency... The Śaṅkarācārya said... He was walking on the street, a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī's business is to walk from village to village, town to town, and approach the householder as beggar: "Mother, give me something to eat." He's not a beggar, but he takes the position of beggar.

Because everyone is charitably disposed, he thinks proud, "Oh, here is a nice beggar, sannyāsī, let me give him something." But the sannyāsī's desire is to introduce himself as a beggar so that the householder can take up the advantage that "Here is a sannyāsī. Please come on." Naturally he'll ask something, "Swāmījī, what is this? What is this?" So he'll get some opportunity to speak something.

So naturally we are inclined to enjoy this life. So if somebody thinks that "Now I am young man, let me enjoy my senses..." At the present moment, youth, the senses are very, I mean to say, in order. So let us enjoy it. And when we get old age, when their senses will not be so expert for enjoyment, then we shall think of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. That is the general tendency. Or the children, they think, "Let us play."

So Śaṅkarācārya says, bālasya tāvat kriyāsakta. "Oh, what I am seeing? All the children in the street, I see they're all engaged in playing." Taruṇas tāvat taruṇī-raktaḥ. "And the young boys and girls, they are after sex." So tarunas tavat taruṇī-raktaḥ, vṛddhas tāvat cinta-magnaḥ. And the old men, they are very thoughtful how to adjust the so-big family. "This son is not yet posted in a nice post. The daughter is not married." So many things.

So old man is thoughtful, thinking, and the young men, they are after boys and girls, and the children, they are playing. So Śaṅkarācārya is lamenting, bālasya tāvad kriyāsaktas taruṇas tāvat taruṇī-raktaḥ, vṛddhas tāvat cinta-magnaḥ parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ. "I do not see anybody searching after God consciousness." Everyone is engaged in a different way.

So unless we train the children from the very beginning of life, just we send to school, they learn so many things, A-B-C-D, similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very beginning. Otherwise, while he's grown up, either he'll be engaged in searching after boy or girl or in playing or in family matters, or so many problems, to solve so many problems, political, social. They'll be all engaged. Then one day, (makes sound) phat!, the death will come. The cruel death will not wait. "Oh, my dear sir, now come on." "Oh, I have got so many duties." "No. Finished. Come on."

I have seen practically. One of my friends at Allahabad, he died at the age of fifty-four years. He was very rich man, doing business. So he was seriously ill, and he was begging the doctor, "My dear doctor, can you not give me at least four years' life more? I have got some scheme; I could not finish it." Just see. Everyone is thinking like that. He has got a scheme, but he has no scheme where he is going either to hell or heaven. That scheme he has forgotten. He's trying to make scheme so long this fifty years, hundred years. You see? This is going on. Parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't misuse your this boon of life, this human form of life. Just begin from the beginning."

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham
utsaheta vimocitum
(SB 7.6.9)

Just like there is affection, attraction. This gentleman, my friend, who was begging from the doctor, "Doctor, another four years' duration of life." Why? He has got so much attachment. So once we are attached to this material way of life it is very difficult. It is very difficult. So brahmacārī is trained that this cosmic manifestation in which we are put by chance, this is temporary. Everything will be finished today or tomorrow or after a hundred years.

But just try to understand that you are eternal. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Na jāyate na mriyate kadācit (BG 2.20). You have no death, you have no birth. Your the birth and death is due to this body. That's all. Just like I told you, death means sleeping for seven months, again rise up. Suptotthito nyāya. Just like in the morning... While sleeping, you forget everything, but as soon as you get up from the bed you remember everything, "Oh, I have to do this, I have to go there, I have to do this." So many things you remember. Similarly, as soon as we get our again consciousness in next body, then our another batch of duty begins according to the body.

That is also explained, deha-yogena dehinām (SB 7.6.3). Another standard of sense gratification. Because the human body's sense gratification is different from dog's body's sense gratification. Or European sense gratification is different from African sense gratification, because it is due to the body. So wherever you take your birth, in this planet or another planet, or this family or that family, this nation or that, that sense gratification arrangement is already there according to your body. You cannot improve it. If a dog likes to gratify his senses like a man, it is not possible, because he has got a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinām.

So that sense... Just like a dog has no economic problem. So a cat has no economic problems, a bird has no economic problem. But we civilized human being, we have got economic problem. Why? Now, because the advanced consciousness which are to be used for understanding our relationship with God, we are utilizing, misusing it for sense gratification. The advanced consciousness which was given to us by the law of nature, to utilize it to understand what is God, what is my relationship with Him and what is my duty in that relationship, this is the boon to understand in the human life, but we don't care for it.

That is the misunderstanding of this present civilization. We are trying to improve the dog civilization. What is that dog civilization? A dog sleeps. So we are trying to improve the accommodation of sleeping. Dog eats. Oh, we are trying to improve the condition of our eating. The dog eats some meat, but we are not meat-eaters, but we want to imitate dog, so therefore we have to arrange so many things. We have to maintain a big slaughterhouse.

So dog has no problem, but we have got problems, because we are misusing our advanced consciousness simply in the same way as the dog: eating, sleeping, mating or defending. The dog has also defending power. As soon as another dog comes, "bow, bow, bow." So similarly, we have got defending power, immigration department, visa department, this department, defensive department. What is this? This is all defense.

So eating, sleeping, defense or sex life is required, but you have got another prerogative: consciousness. That is to be changed into..., that is to be improved into Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. That is your duty. So unless we are trained up to change our consciousness which we have had in many other animal life... Because this is evolutionary process. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni (Padma Purāṇa). From 900,000's of species of life of aquatics, then trees and plants, then reptiles, worms, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized men, then we have come to this form of civilized men who are..., there is intelligence for production, there is nice brain for so many things. So how it should be utilized? Prahlāda Mahārāja says it should be utilized for understanding God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, it is simply a misuse of life.

Thank you very much.

Lady guest: You say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness teaching should start at an early age. But does that mean we should consider ourselves at the age of a very small child towards beginning Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we send small children to nursery school, or preliminary, primary schools, similarly... Because that is the age, receptive age. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from that childhood age. Therefore I wanted that on Sunday, let people send their children here, and we shall teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

You'll be surprised that in India I approached so many gentlemen, "My dear sir, you have got four boys. Give me one boy. Let me teach Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So they'll say, "Swāmījī, what they'll do learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How they will struggle for existence?" So nobody wants it. Nobody wants. They think that by sending boys to Kṛṣṇa consciousness school, the boy will be spoiled. That is their idea. Yes.

Guest: Swāmījī, you mentioned that death is actually sleeping for seven months?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Is this provided you take on a human form of life?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily.

Guest: If you take on a dog's body then it's still seven months?

Prabhupāda: Not seven months. I am speaking from the human point of view. But that consciousness is, I mean to say, subdued for a few days, a few months, then you get another body. Again consciousness is there, and you begin your work. Even you get human form of life, but if you do not utilize it properly, then what is the use of getting human form of life? That is the defect, that there is no training. There are so many university department, but there is no department for understanding what is the soul or what is God. No department.

This Bhagavad-gītā teaches this department of knowledge. Beginning. From the very beginning. The Bhagavad-gītā is begun from the understanding that Arjuna was spoken by Kṛṣṇa, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāmś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11): "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man but," gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ, "but actually one who is learned man, he does not bother about this body either dead or alive." This is not the subject matter, to supply the necessities of body. This is not the subject matter of study for a learned man. In other words, the whole world is absorbed in the study of this body only.

So there is no learned man according to Bhagavad-gītā. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāmś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). That "You are talking..." Actually, so many learned men, M.A., Ph.D., with university qualification, they are talking so much, but as soon as they are asked, "Do you know what is the soul?" they stop.

Yes?

Guest: I have here a Holy Bible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: The Holy Bible is written by the Holy Spirit of mankind. Should we believe on the Bible or not?

Prabhupāda: But so far I know, that the man who wrote, he wrote with..., on revelation.

Guest: The Holy Spirit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you should read. That... Just try to understand. If somebody, ordinary man, writes a book, he'll write book on his own experience. Therefore he's a..., because he is imperfect, because his senses are imperfect, he has got a cheating propensity, he is sure to commit mistake and he's sure to be illusioned.

His position being such, he cannot give us any perfect knowledge. Because he's imperfect by constitution. Every man will commit mistake. Every man will be illusioned. Just like every one of us illusioned. I am not this body, but I'm thinking I'm this body. And the whole activity of my life is based on this body. So therefore whole thing is mistake, illusion.

Similarly, a conditioned soul, anyone, he has got a propensity to cheat. Everyone wants to be very intelligent. How? By cheating others. He thinks, "Oh, I have cheated that man. I am very intelligent." This propensity every one of us we have got. Therefore he has got a cheating propensity. And over all, the senses by which he's acquiring knowledge by speculating, that is imperfect.

Guest: The body is Krish-na. Krish-na (indistinct), Christ. Body of Christ, the whole spirit.

Prabhupāda: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Kṛṣṇa..., as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7),

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ
vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām
dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya
(sambhavāmi) yuge yuge
(BG 4.8)
sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā
(BG 4.6)

So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God's son comes or God's representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body.

Guest: "Kṛṣṇa" means Christ. He's the whole spirit. We are in the body of man. That is the body of God.

Prabhupāda: The body of man is not exactly body of God. There is no difference between the body and soul of God, because it is spiritual. The soul is spiritual, the body is spiritual. Just like if you have got your golden body and golden soul, there is no difference between the soul and body. But in our case, we, as we are, we are spirit soul, but this body is material; therefore I am different from this body. But when you are liberated, we get spiritual body. Similar..., at that time, as Kṛṣṇa has no difference between His body and soul, similarly, we also have no difference between body and soul.

But at the present moment we have got difference with the body and soul. Therefore as soon as the soul goes away from this body, the body being matter, "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." It mixes with the matter. The soul takes another body. The whole problem is that we have to stop this repetition of migration from one material body to another material body. That is the highest perfection of life.

Haṁsadūta: After that seven months of unconsciousness in the body, in the womb, what does that spirit soul experience from that time till it comes out?

Prabhupāda: He remains unconscious.

Haṁsadūta: After seven months?

Prabhupāda: After seven months he gets consciousness.

Haṁsadūta: And from that time to that ninth month when he leaves the body, what's his experience? Or what's his understanding, spirit soul?

Prabhupāda: So many understanding, experience. Just like we have got so many experiences in different types of body.

Haṁsadūta: He doesn't know his position.

Prabhupāda: No. That position, unless he goes to a spiritual master, tad-vijñānarthaṁ sa gurum evābhiga... (MU 1.2.12), how can he know? Just like a diseased man, he'll say he does not know what is his disease, but as soon as he goes to a physician, he says, "My dear sir, you are suffering from this disease." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, he was suffering from this material disease. He was thinking about his relationship with this body, and Kṛṣṇa treated him, that "You are not this body." Similarly, everyone wants to be treated that he is not body, he's spirit soul. Then he'll understand his real position.

At that time, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Oh, as soon as he understands, "Oh, I am spirit soul, I have got a spiritual kingdom," so many things, then brahma-bhūtaḥ prasanna..., he has no more any anxiety for this material condition of life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any anxiety, no more any desire. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: and he looks equally to everyone. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate: and again engages himself in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

This is awakening. And the Vedas say, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.3.14): "My dear sir, you have got this human body. Just wake up. Don't sleep any more like animals." Prāpya varān nibodhata: "You have got this fortunate body. Just utilize it." Tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." These things are to be learned. Yes?

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that? Janārdana?

Janārdana: (explaining) In Tibetan literature, there's a concept that there is 72,000 years allotted?

Guest: (indistinct)

Janārdana: You mean once you get a human body, then you can have 72,000 years?

Guest: (indistinct)

Janārdana: Well, in the Vedic scriptures there are 8,400,000 different incarnations.

Guest: No, not the species. I'm not talking about the species. But 72,000 years...

Janārdana: And what happens if you don't make it?

Guest: I don't know. That's what I'm wondering.

Prabhupāda: Now... I can understand. Now suppose a boy in this classroom is given some task. The teacher says, "You are allowed two hours to finish this task." Now if the boy is intelligent he can finish it in few minutes. Or if he is not intelligent, he cannot finish even in two hours.

Similarly, that allowance is very nice, the 72,000's of years. But if you get the opportunity in 72 days to come out, why should you not take that opportunity? Why should you put yourself into that 72,000 years? If there is a means to get out of this entanglement in 72 days, why should you lose this opportunity? Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
(BG 7.19)

"After many, many births"—the same thing; 72,000's of years or any number of years—"one who is wise, one who has attained wisdom, he surrenders unto Me." How? Now, he understands, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all-pervading. Vāsudeva means all-pervading. He is everything. Therefore let me surrender unto Him. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: that sort of great soul is very rare.

Now if this is the position, that ultimately we have to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead after many, many births, take it for 72,000's of years or any number... Now here I get the information from the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead I become wise man.

So why not surrender immediately? Why shall I wait for 72,000's of years? Let me do it immediately. That is wisdom. That is wisdom. The things which I am going to get after 72,000's of years, if I am getting it immediately, oh, catch up this opportunity. That is intelligence. (break)

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Indian man: Are we duty-bound to maintain our body?

Prabhupāda: You are not maintaining your body. You are given a body to fulfill your desire. You get a particular type of body to fulfill your desire. You desire... Just like we have got, you analyze each and every one of us, each and every one has got a different type of body. Why? Each and every one of us has got a different type of mentality. That mentality is going on, and according to that mentality you are getting different types of body. So this body means to give me opportunity to satisfy a different type of mentality. That is God's grace.

ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
(BG 4.11)

You wanted this body, God has given you this body. If you want a tiger's body, God will give you a tiger's body. If you want a demigod's body, God will give you a demigod's body.

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vrataḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

But if you want a God's body you will get it also. So why not take a God's body? This is the opportunity. This is the opportunity.

(break) ...desire this body, that body, this body, that body, I have traveled so many bodies, 8,400,000's of bodies. Now here is a body where is perfect consciousness. I can understand that if I like, I can get next birth God's body.

(break) ...means the same body as God has, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So this is illusion that I think that I am maintaining this body. You are not maintaining this body. The nature's law, nature's supply, nature's arrangement, that is... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The nature is acting according to the different qualities. And ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, being puffed up, one thinks that "I am doing this." Nonsense, you cannot do it anything. You are being forced to do by the laws of nature.

Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So if the activities is going on with the laws of nature, then how do you become Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Do you (indistinct) yourself completely?

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa says, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66). "You nonsense. You give up all this nonsense business. Come to Me." So we have..., you have to develop such knowledge. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa says like this, let me do this."

(break) "...faith that whatever engagement you have manufactured, it is simply troublesome, miserable for your life. Don't try to manufacture any more. Please come to Me." "Oh, how shall I live?" Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66): "Don't bother. I shall give you protection."

Unfortunately, we do not follow. We have no business to maintain this body or that body, but simply to surrender to God. Then everything will be done.

(break) ...maintain your body. Everyone is trying to become President Johnson or something like that. Does it mean that he will become? The arrangement is pre-arrangement. You may work day and night, hard labor, but you'll get whatever is destined to you. That's all. You cannot get more.

That is being taught by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Just like a dog, he has got a particular type of body. He is confined in that bodily activities. If a dog likes that "I shall be President Johnson," is it possible? However..., how much he may try, that body will not allow him. Similarly, we have got a particular type of body to enjoy a particular type of sense gratification. If we try to go beyond that, it is not possible.

Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't try foolishly in that way. If you have got any energy, try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will make you happy." Don't misuse your energy in that way, that "I shall become this, I shall become that." That you cannot become.

(break) ...the example, yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ (SB 7.6.3). You are trying to be happy in a different way. That is not the way of happiness. But you are thinking that "I shall be happy in this way."

But that also you cannot do. Your happiness, whatever is destined to you, that will come automatically. How? He gives the example, yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ. Just like a misery of your life, you do not try for it, but it comes upon you automatically. Similarly, the happiness of your life will also come upon you automatically. So do not try to waste your time for so-called happiness or to drive away so-called distress. Just push yourself under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. He will manage everything and you'll be happy.

(break) ...and so far occupation is concerned, just see whether by your occupation you are satisfying God. That is your perfection.

(break) Kṛṣṇa does not say that you change your occupation. Just like Arjuna. He is a kṣatriya. His business is to fight. The division of human society, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra, is very scientific. A kṣatriya is meant for fighting. A brāhmaṇa is meant for intelligent work. A vaiśya is meant for business. A śūdra is meant for labor.

But because there is no such division, people are not trained from the very beginning. Therefore a śūdra is called by the draft board, "Come on," to fight. Now, how he can fight? He is not a kṣatriya. So they are flying away. They're taking visa for another country and going away. How he can fight? He is not kṣatriya.

So Kṛṣṇa said Arjuna that "You are kṣatriya." He did not say... Kṛṣṇa wanted..., Arjuna wanted to become a false brāhmaṇa. He said, "Oh, I shall become nonviolent, and even though I don't get my kingdom I shall beg like a brāhmaṇa and shall live away. Kṛṣṇa, don't ask me to fight." This is false brāhmaṇism. "Oh," Kṛṣṇa said, "you are kṣatriya. You must fight." It cannot imitate a brāhmaṇa's business. This is false.

So anyone has got a particular duty, as I explained in the beginning, so he, let him do that particular duty. He doesn't require to change. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). But try to see whether by execution of your particular type of duty you have satisfied God. That is your perfection.

(break) ...life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we do not say that you give up all your engagements, come here in the temple and simply go on chanting. Consciousness..., you must come to the perfection of consciousness that "I am eternally related with Kṛṣṇa and God..."

(break) So Vedic literature does not say like that. It is order. You have to accept it. If you do not understand, try to understand it. That is a different thing. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā there is no question of interpretation. In the beginning it is said,

dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre
samavetā yuyutsavaḥ
māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva
kim akurvata sañjaya
(BG 1.1)

"My dear Sañjaya," Dhṛtarāṣṭra is asking his private secretary, Mr. Sañjaya, "my sons and my brother's sons, Pāṇḍava..." His brother's name was Pandu, therefore they are Pāṇḍava. Māmakāḥ means "my sons." Where is the scope for interpretation? Kuru-kṣetre. There is still one place—you know better; you are Indian—there is place Kurukṣetra still existing. Dharmakṣetra, that is a religious place, place of pilgrimage. Still, people go for religious performances. In the Vedas it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret: one should perform religious rituals in the Kurukṣetra.

So where is the scope for interpretation? Interpretation means when you cannot understand something. Then you can interpret. But here, kurukṣetra you can understand; dharma-kṣetra you can understand; māmakāḥ you can understand; pāṇḍava you can understand; they assembled for fighting, you can understand. Why do you interpret? What is the necessity of interpretation? That means he wants to show that he has got some better intelligence than the speaker of the Bhagavad-gītā. We do not accept such things, nonsense.

(break) If you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā, then you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā as Kṛṣṇa speaks or as Arjuna understands. Just like if you take a medicine bottle. The direction, as it is stated in the bottle, you have to take medicine in that way. You cannot make your own direction, interpretation.

(break) Nonsense. We don't accept.

(break) We are publishing one book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It has been taken by one great publisher, Macmillan Company, and we'll have it by the month of October. Don't interpret. We explain things as they are. That should be the attitude. Why? Why interpretation? By interpretation, there are 664 editions of Bhagavad-gītā. Simply by... One medical man, he has interpreted Bhagavad-gītā: Kṛṣṇa is a physician and Arjuna is a patient.

And he has tried to explain through Bhagavad-gītā all anatomic philosophy..., er, physiology, not this. Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the battlefield, full of violence, and he is trying to prove that the Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolent. These are all artificial attempts. These explanations will never give you the real light from Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

(break) (devotees offer obeisances) (end)