720501 - Lecture SB 02.09.02-3 - Tokyo

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



720501SB-TOKYO - May 01, 1972 - 34:49 Minutes



Prabhupāda: ...his association, or its association with the different types of..., modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So you mix it, then that it becomes eighty-one. Three multiplied by three, nine, and again, nine multiplied by nine, it becomes eighty-one. So there are 8,400,000 forms on account of this mixture. That's all. So the mixture is possible, and according to the mixture, they have got different consciousness. According to the body, they have got different consciousness.

A man, highly intellectual brāhmaṇa, he is, "Oh, I am greater than everyone. I am so wise. I am so pure. I am brāhmaṇa." So he has got a different conception. And similarly, the hog, because he has got a different form, it has that "Oh, stool is so nice. Let me eat it." It is very (easy) to understand. According to the association with the modes of material nature, we are getting different types of body. And according to different types of body, we are developing different types of consciousness. Is it very difficult to understand?

But when we transcend this bodily concept of life, then we come to the one standard consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Try to understand. If there is any difficulty, ask. It is very important. Why there are different consciousness? Everyone could take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But they cannot take it, because they have got bodily concept of life. And body means association with the modes of material nature in a different way. Try to understand. Is there any question on this point? Say it clearly. If you have understood, explain. It is very important point.

Ramamāṇo guṇeṣ..., guṇeṣv asyā, guṇeṣu asya mamāham iti manyate. According to the body, the hog is claiming, "Oh, this stool is mine. You cannot take." He is thinking. Just like the other day in Hong Kong, we saw that one woman was collecting some nasty food from the garbage because he (she) is thinking, "This sort of food is my food." Mamāham. He (she) has got a certain type of body.

Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, nānā yoni brāhmaṇa kare, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakale viṣera bhāṇḍa (Prema-bhakti-candrikā). Those who are taking to the karmīs' life or jñānīs' life... Even jñānīs' life... Jñānīs' life means higher type of forms of body. Just like where so long... Here the jñānīs have got a very nice body, brahminical body, pure, cleansed and beautiful, knowledge. The higher development, they can go still up, Maharloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Satyaloka, Siddhaloka, Brahmaloka. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). The more you are in sattva-guṇa, you get higher level of living in higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā.

Those who are on the modes of goodness of material nature, they go higher and higher, higher and higher. But Kṛṣṇa says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16): even if you go to the Brahmaloka, that is also not security that you get rid of the four principles of material life, birth, death, old age and disease. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna. Again coming down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa para... Even if you go to the impersonal Brahman effulgence, from there also, you have to come back. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). So, madhya-dhāma gatvā punar janma na... But anyone who reaches...

The jīva, another reason of falling down... There is sometimes question, "How one who lived in association with Kṛṣṇa, how he fell down?" Generally, those who are living with Kṛṣṇa or Vaikuṇṭha, they never fall down. But those who are in the effulgence of Kṛṣṇa, in the impersonal Brahman, they fall down, because it is the propensity of the living entity to enjoy. But one cannot enjoy; there is no ānanda.

Those who are merging in the Brahman effulgence, they are getting the department of eternity. The Brahman is sac-cid-ānanda. So they are simply accepting sad-aṁśa. Sad-aṁśa means only eternity. Just like if you are asked to sit down in a place eternally, no, it will be impossible. You must desire a change, variety, because we are living entity, living being. So therefore our Vaiṣṇava philosophy has varieties of enjoyment.

This Māyāvādī philosophy, they are thinking of Brahman, "Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I have become Nārāyaṇa." So how long they will think like that? Therefore they fall down. Artificially he is Brahman, that's all right. Everyone is Brahman. But simply thinking, "I am Brahman, I am Brahman..." Suppose you are rich man. So if you simply think, "I am rich man, I am rich man, I am rich man," will that give you pleasure?

You must act like a rich man. If I am rich man, I must have a very nice motorcar, I must have very nice society, friendship, love, building. Then that will give me pleasure. And if I have got millions of dollars' bank balance and if I think, "Oh, I am so rich man, I am so rich man, I am so rich man," that will not give you pleasure. Is it not practical? Try to understand. Will any rich man, if he thinks simply that "I am rich man, I am rich man," will he be happy in that way? Rather, a poor man who has got variegated life, he is happy.

Even Kṛṣṇa, who is the Supreme Lord—He has nothing to do—He also sometimes thinks that "I must fight with somebody. I must play. I must become subordinate to somebody." Therefore He comes. He becomes subordinate to Nanda-Yaśodā. That is pleasure. He becomes chastised. He fights with the demon. Some of the demons, they are devotees. Just like if I want to take massage, I find out my masseurs from my devotees with all strength. You see? I cannot go outside. Similarly, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fighting spirit is there in Kṛṣṇa also. So when He wants to fight, in the Vaikuṇṭha there is no possibility of fight. Nobody will be able to fight. Nobody will agree to fight. So there is no fighting.

Fighting means must be inimical propensity. Unless you think, "I am your enemy," and I think, "You are my enemy," the fighting is not going on. If I think, "I am fighting with my friend," it will be false fighting. Fighting must be between two strong enemies. Therefore sometimes Jaya-Vijaya come. The question is that why the living entity falls down. It is not falls down. Just like Jaya-Vijaya came just to satisfy his master.

His master desired fighting, so some of His servant went to the material world and became great enemy, like Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa. For killing Rāvaṇa, Rāma is coming. Well, Rāvaṇa could not be killed without Rāma. If Rāma desired, millions of Rāvaṇas could be killed in one second. And why He is coming to..., personally to fight with him? Just to satisfy a pleasure pastime, that "I shall fight." That is variety.

Brahman, Brahman does not mean no variety. Varieties. There is fighting. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking pleasure when His devotee Bhisma was piercing Him with arrows. Actually He was taking pleasure. So Viśvanātha Cakravartī has given this example, that this can be realized by this example, that when a lover kisses the opposite lover, even sometimes kissing there is blood come out, still, it is pleasing. In that kissing process even blood comes out, still, it is pleasure. The lover does not complain. It is very suitable example given by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. So when Kṛṣṇa enjoys with His devotee, the fighting with piercing Kṛṣṇa's body, that is being enjoyed by Kṛṣṇa. I think I have explained this in Bhāgavata.

So impersonal, without any variety, nobody can live. No live... Even Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He can also say. He wants variety. So this variety of forms... Because they want variety of enjoyment, therefore they have got different forms of body according to the association. So Māyāvādī philosophers, when they come to know that this is māyā's place, so therefore they want to make it variety-less, formless. This is their theory.

So, but that is not the solution. This is māyā. This form or no form, this is māyā. When we develop our real, spiritual form and enjoy in company and association of the Supreme Lord varieties, just like Vṛndāvana, variety... In Vṛndāvana the cows, the trees, the water, they are also spiritual. Some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa becoming a cow. Some devotee wants to serve Kṛṣṇa becoming a bird, becoming a monkey, and somebody is serving as gopī or as cowherd boy, as father, as mother. But they are all spiritually.

Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. They are all expansion. Just like when Brahmā took away all the friends and cows of Kṛṣṇa, immediately expanded Himself in the same way. So all the cows and all the cowherd boys, in every case, they were all expansion of Kṛṣṇa, pleasure potency. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). Nija-rūpa.

So the varieties are there also, but here the variety is māyā. Māyayā bahu-rūpayā. The same example: the mirage. It appears like water, but that is not real water. Similarly here, māyayā, because it is false, they appear like that varieties, but they are false. Māyayā bahu-rūpaya. Ramante. This ramante, this pleasure, is material pleasure because guṇeṣu. Ramamāṇa guṇeṣu asyā. They are trying to take pleasure in the material modes of nature. Mamāham iti manyate. What is that?

Devotee: Mamāham iti manyate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these varieties, they have created a sense of personal property, mama, "mine." Therefore they are fighting: "Oh, this is our country, Japanese country. This is this country. You have come here. Show me your visa," immigration. So māyayā, by māyā. Why you ask for visa? It is your property? No. They are thinking, "It is my property. It is my property." Just like in Australia and other countries, colonization. They usurped others' property, and now they are thinking, "It is our property." You see? Before their usurping, the property was there. So before their usurping, when the property was there, whose property it is?

So we come here with different forms and claim something, "This is my property." Another man claims, "It is my property." Actually this is māyā, false. Everything Kṛṣṇa's property. Īśāvasyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). "Oh, this is..." But māyā, they have created this false idea, "It is my property. It is my property." Mamāham iti manyate.

The same thing explained in Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27): by false ego they have become befooled. Kartāham iti manyate. Kartā. Kartā means the proprietor, or the master. He is not actually master, but under the influence of different modes of material nature he is feeling, "I am master. I am enjoyer. I am bhokta." This is the trouble.

What is the next verse?

Pradyumna:

yarhi vāva mahimni sve
parasmin kāla-māyayoḥ
rameta gata-sammohas
tyaktvodāste tadobhayam
(SB 2.9.3)

Prabhupāda: Word-by-word.

Pradyumna: Yarhi... (break)

Prabhupāda: "I am now amongst the members of Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. I am one of the devotees, and because I have taken this association, and because I am working under their direction, Kṛṣṇa must be pleased, and He must give me protection. Therefore, I should not reserve anymore anything. Let me fully surrender." No reservation; fully surrendered. (break)

Our business is we want to sell books not to make money. Now, if you simply take it formally... Hayagrīva has taken the formality: we have to keep some cows; never mind we have to take payment from others. That is not cow protection. Cow protection means just like Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is tending the cows. He is going, taking the cows personally from His royal palace, going to the forest whole day, working there. Is it not, cowherds boy? And taken some little fruit, mother, whatever mother has given. They are playing that.

So this is cow protection. Not that "Somebody will give money and we shall keep some third-class cows and feed there, and become cow protector." We must tend the cows very nicely so that they will give us sufficient milk. And with that milk we shall live. "No, because we are giving protection to cow, you send money for the cows and the cow protector, and earn money there and give us money. We shall eat nicely and sleep." As soon as this practice is going on, then next will be, "Give me some LSD. Give me something else." This will go on. We don't want that.

Similarly, the GBC member means they will see that in every temple these books are very thoroughly being read and discussed and understood, and applied in practical life. That is wanted. Not to see the vouchers only, "How many books you have sold, and how many books are in the stock?" That is secondary. You may keep vouchers... If one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, there is no need of voucher. That is... Everyone is doing his best. That's all.

So we have to see that things are going on very nicely. So in that way the GBC members should divide some zones and see very nicely that things are going on, that they are chanting sixteen rounds, and temple management is doing according to the routine work, and the books are being thoroughly discussed, being read, understood practically. These things are required. Now, suppose you go to sell some book, and if somebody says, "You have read this book? Can you explain this verse?" then what you will say? You will say, "No. It is for you. It is not for me. I have to take money from you, that's all." Is that very nice answer?

Devotee: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then? "We have written this book for your reading, not for our reading. We are..., simply collect money, that's all."

Sudāmā: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If, while in the process of the studying of the book, there is some disagreement, one...

Prabhupāda: What disagreement? Everything is explained there. Why there shall be disagreement?

Sudāmā: Well, if there is no understanding, but still, the question, there is a question presented, then...

Prabhupāda: Then without understanding... Or understanding... What is the difficulty? Everything is explained there. So what is the difficulty of disagreement? Everything, word-to-word meaning is there. Translation is there. Purport is there. Where is the difficulty?

Sudāmā: The point is, then, to practically apply. Then you will understand.

Prabhupāda: Practical application means that this "I" and "mine," it is all misconception. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. I am His servant. When I say "I," "I" means "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." And if I say "my," "mine," Kṛṣṇa is mine. I am Kṛṣṇa's; Kṛṣṇa is mine. That is perfect "I" and "mine." And all "I am Brahman, I am God, I am the Supreme, I am moving the stars"—just like these rascals, they think like that—that is rascaldom.

There are so many rascals, they think like that, meditate, "I am the Supreme. I am moving the star. I am moving the sun. It is being controlled by me." That is their meditation. That is explained there. That is their meditation. Is it not? Does not somebody meditate like that? They do not take actual, whether actually he is able to move the sun and moon, but foolishly thinking like that. They are taught that "If you simply think like that, then one day you will become." Just how impractical proposition.

Our proposition, that we also think about Kṛṣṇa's pastime in order to enter into Kṛṣṇa con..., but not to become Kṛṣṇa, but to be allowed into the eternal pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, nitya-līlā-praviṣṭha. Our thinking... We are thinking of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6), not to become Kṛṣṇa, even not to become the cowherd boy. Our is always we want to become the servant of the cowherd boy.

Those who are thinking of becoming gopī—the maidservant of another gopī, that is our proposition. If I think that "I shall become Mother Yaśodā," that is also Māyāvāda. That is also Māyāvāda, exactly like that, if one thinks that "I shall become Kṛṣṇa." Our only proposition is how to be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is explained.

So if there is difficulty, we should discuss among ourselves and clear it. But there must be thorough discussion and understanding. And the president of the center, he should be able to answer the questions of other members. If he is unable, then he should ask the local general secretary. Then, at last, it should come to me. Not that all the questions are going to me directly, and "We are simply busy, vouchers and reports."

So these things should be very carefully noted. The president means he must be very expert. He should be... Secretaries, they should be all expert in reading. This is our main business: to study, to know things. Otherwise, what is this? Now, that this boy is asking question means he should have asked question to the senior members. What is your next question?

Devotee: The question is, Prabhupāda, that if there is question, or not understanding in the course of a class, if the proper answer cannot be given, if one sincerely approaches you within the heart, then you will give understanding?

Prabhupāda: I have given understanding already in my book. That I am explaining. Why these books are being written? Just to explain things very nicely. They are already there. You try to understand. If you cannot understand, then you... (break) ...has not made the thing clear. But you are unable to understand. So in that case you have to cleanse yourself. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12, Śikṣāṣṭaka 1). Both things.

You must be able to understand, and the instructor should be able to make you understand, both of them. Just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. One answer, and he's answered, but the answer is not understandable by us. But Arjuna is understanding. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is understanding. Just like this is a question, attempt.

Bali-mardana: Śukadeva Gosvāmī and Parīkṣit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So sometimes we cannot understand due to our incapable. But things are already there. So by discussing, by repeated trying to understand and being cleansed of heart, everything will be done. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). The two things are there, seva and praṇipāt: surrender, at the same time, some service. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). If one is inclined to give service, then automatically things become understood. This is science like that.

yasya deve parā bhaktir
yathā-deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
(ŚU 6.23)

This spiritual science cannot be understood simply by academic knowledge or by challenge. The sevā-vṛtti, the service attitude, must be there. Otherwise it will never be understood. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā-deve tathā gurau. These are the Vedic injunction.

Hmm. So let us... (break)

Each and every śloka should be very, very scrutinizingly understood. That should be the first business in the temples—of all these books. We have got so many books. Simply if we make arrangement for selling, not for understanding, then it will be simply materialistic. Both things must go on.

Go on. (kīrtana) (end)