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750203 - Lecture BG 16.07 - Honolulu

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750203BG-HONOLULU - February 03, 1975 - 44:45 Minutes

Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca
janā na vidur āsurāḥ
na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro
na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate
(BG 16.7)

(break) (01:53)

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them."


pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca
janā na vidur āsurāḥ
na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro
na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate
(BG 16.7)

So these are the symptoms of asura. We have already discussed the characteristic of divine nature and the characteristic of demonic nature. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa this is also confirmed: dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two kinds of people all over the universe. There is asuraloka and devaloka, planet. So devāsura fight, that is going on perpetually, daiva and asura, demonic nature and divine nature.

There are many people, they do not like us because we are preaching God consciousness. This is our fault. Even in our country, in India, the government do not like us, because nowadays, everywhere practically, the demonic people being very much increased, the government is also demonic. So they do not like people in divine nature. They will tolerate all kinds of noise—barking of the dogs, the motorcar passing, the aeroplane on overhead—but as soon as there is kīrtana, they're disturbed. They'll tolerate so many different types of noise, but they'll not tolerate kīrtana.

That is from the very beginning. In New York, when we started this movement, so in the morning, at seven o'clock, we used to hold our class, and there was little sound, immediately the tenants from upwards, they'll come down and complain. Sometimes they will call for police. And on the street, Second Avenue, there is always big, big trucks and motorcars going on, heavy sound. Then in your country the garbage carrier sound, the digging sound. So many sound they'll tolerate. And as soon "Hare Kṛṣṇa," "Oh, it is intolerable." (laughter) This is demonic, the demonic. They'll not hear. Because that will do good to them by hearing, they'll not accept it.

It is practically experienced, I know that the ghost, if you go in a house ghostly-haunted, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they'll go away. They cannot tolerate. In my life there was several incidences like that. In my household life, I was doing business in Lucknow. So there was one house, very big house, worth thousands of rupees' rent, but it was ghostly haunted. So nobody would take that house. I took it at two hundred rupees, (laughter) and very big house. And I was . . . all the servants, they complained, "Sir, there is ghost." So I was chanting. He was living in several spots, especially on the gate side. So I could understand. But I would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and I was saved. Everyone was saved. There was . . . and, say, in 1969 I was guest in the house of John Lennon in London. So there was a ghost in . . . it was a big plot. There was a guesthouse. So they complained, "Sir, here is ghost." So I advised them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and the ghost went away. Yes. This is fact. When there is Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting, these ghostly, demonic living entities, they'll not be able to stay there. They'll go away.

So two classes of men: demonic and divine. So divine nature has been explained in various ways from the very beginning. Now Kṛṣṇa is explaining about the demonic nature. The first characteristic of demonic nature is they do not know what should be the pravṛtti and what should be nivṛtti—proper and improper action. Improper action is mentioned here, beginning that na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7), not cleanliness. Cleanliness is essential. "Cleanliness is next to godliness."

In India, especially in the villages, you'll find cleanliness. He has got one cloth, poverty-stricken, one cloth, not very white. Due to dirt, it is black. But that one cloth should be washed daily, still, one cloth. They'll take one napkin and wash the cloth, and India, tropical climate, here also, and spread it on the floor. Within five minutes it will be dry, and then change clothes. And early in the morning, even in chilly cold, they will take bath, taking water from the well. And nature's arrangement is, if you take well water, it is hot early in the morning. Early in the morning it is very, not very hot, but is warm. You can take very easily your bath. They do that. This is called naimitti. Naimitti. Nitya, naimitti. Nitya, this is daily affair, taking bath and go early in the morning to evacuate, then wash your hand. Not required, soap. You can take the dirt from the earth and wash your hand nicely, then take your bath and change your cloth, washed cloth, then go to some temple.

Still this system is current. And see ārati, maṅgala-ārati. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Ring the bells. In every temple such arrangement is there. Then come at home and do your duty, the businessman. In the shop also, they'll cleanse everything very nicely. Even the scale, weighing scale, they will wash every day. This is required, śaucam. Satyaṁ śaucaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam āstikyam, jñānaṁ vijñānaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). One should be truthful. Truthful means that you should be so much truthful that even his enemy asks him, "Where is your money?" he'll say, "Here is my money." He'll not, I mean to say, hide anything. That is truthfulness. Of course, in this age it is very difficult, but these are the items: to become truthful, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, śamo damas titikṣā, tolerance; ārjavam, simplicity; then āstikyam, firm faith in the śāstra, scripture. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is scripture.

So firm faith . . . Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65): "You simply always think of Me, Hare Kṛṣṇa." Not difficult. Bhava. Kṛṣṇa has given you the tongue. Every one of you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the . . . you have no expenditure, but great gain. You become highly elevated gradually by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now, Kṛṣṇa says personally man-manāḥ: "Always think of Me." Not only that, anyone who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours, Kṛṣṇa gives him the certificate—the topmost yogī.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
(BG 6.47)

So Kṛṣṇa says . . . this is called theism, believing in the śāstra. Any śāstra. It doesn't mean that simply . . . all śāstras, according to time, circumstances, people, there're different śāstras. The Bible is also śāstra. Koran is also śāstra as much as . . . but they are spoken according to the time, according to the circumstances. Just like in the Bible, the first injunction is "Thou shall not kill." This means the people were, in those days, at least people who were all around Christ, they were very much expert in killing. Otherwise why he says first, "Thou shall not kill"? So this injunction must be followed. Unfortunately, they first of all killed Jesus Christ: "You are speaking 'Thou shall not kill'? I shall kill you." Just see. This is the position. "So what is my fault you want to kill me?" "Because you are speaking of God; therefore we shall kill you." And actually, it actually happened. This is demonic.

So there are many other instances. Prahlāda Mahārāja, five-years-old boy, he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. His father did not like. "Why you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" "Because Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." "Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord? I am Supreme Lord. You do not do this." So the boy would not give up. So the father was even prepared to kill a five-year-old boy. The fault was that he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. He was given poison. He was thrown into the fire. He was pulled from the hill. He was very powerful king, and whatever he ordered, his servant carried out. But he was saved in all circumstances by Kṛṣṇa.

So this is demonic nature. They will simply try to suppress Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because these symptoms are there: na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate (BG 16.7). There is no truthfulness. They do not know what is ultimate truth. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the beginning is, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. Janmādy asya yataḥ: "The Absolute Truth . . . I am meditating upon the Supreme Truth, Absolute Truth." What is Absolute Truth? Janmādy asya yataḥ: "From whom everything has come into existence, that is Absolute." So what is the nature of that Absolute Truth? Is it a dead body or a living body? There are two things: something dead and something living. So what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? So that is replied, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). Abhijñaḥ means cognizant, living. The Absolute Truth is not dead; it is living. We are pushing forward this theory.

The modern scientists, they are of opinion that life comes from matter. We say, "No, life comes from life. Matter comes from life." This is satyam. I do not know how they get Nobel Prize, putting forward a false theory that life comes from matter. The matter . . . so why don't you produce life in the laboratory? Matter is there. Chemicals are there. You mix them and produce a life. When some such chemist is inquired, "Whether you can produce life if I give you the chemicals?" they will immediately say, "That I cannot say." Then why do you speak like that? So this is asuric. If they accept that everything comes from the living being, then they will have to accept God. So they want to avoid this. "Everything matter." But that is not the fact. Origin is life - that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Aham. Kṛṣṇa is life. He's not dead matter.

So . . . now, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa, you can, if you think of yourself . . . this material body, how it has developed, such big body? Because the living spark is there. The gigantic material thing grows on the basis of spirit soul. We can understand that. The spirit soul is the basis. Our body, very small particle, spiritual particle, takes shelter in the womb of the mother, and gradually the living spark develops this body. That is our practical experience. And if, some way or other, the living spark is gone . . . suppose a dead child is born. It will not grow. It will not change. So this is very simple thing, that on this living being the matter grows, not from matter living being comes in.

So we have written a small pamphlet, and in German language it is already published. People are very gladly accepting, reading this book. What is the name you have given?

Haṁsadūta: Life Comes From Life.

Prabhupāda: No, German name?

Haṁsadūta: Leben Kommt von Leben.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate. The demonic people, they do not have the truth. Only a false theory, the Darwin's theory. We have commented upon Darwin's theory also in our book Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara Brahmacārī, he has written a small booklet. He has criticized Darwin very strongly, that he is a speculator. A speculator cannot give you truth. That is not possible. By speculation you cannot say, "Two plus two equal to five." That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four," that is everywhere. And if you speculate, "No, two plus two equal to five," or "Two plus two equal to three," that is not science. So scientific basis means it should be fact, not speculation. Mano-dharma, mano-dharma means speculation.

Therefore śāstra says, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Harāv abhaktasya, one who is not a divine nature or devotee of the Lord, he has no qualification. "Oh, he's M.A., Ph.D." No, he has no qualification. "Why?" Now, mano-rathena, he is simply speculating. He has no truth. How by speculation . . .? Every one of us, we are imperfect. We are very much proud of our eyes: "Can you show me?" What qualification your eyes have got that you can see? He does not think that, that "I have no qualification; still, I want to see." These eyes, oh, they are dependent on so many condition. Now there is electricity, you can see. As soon as there is electricity off, you cannot see. Then what is the value of your eyes? You cannot see what is going on beyond this wall.

So don't believe your so-called senses as the source of knowledge. No. The source of knowledge should be by hearing. That is called śruti. Therefore Vedas name is śruti. Śruti-pramāṇa, śruti-pramāṇa. Just like a child or a boy wants to know who is his father. So what is the evidence? That evidence is śruti, hearing, from the mother. Mother says, "He is your father." So he hears; he does not see how he became his father. Because before his body was constructed the father was there, now how could he see? So by seeing, you cannot ascertain who is your father. You have to hear from the authority. The mother is the authority. Therefore śruti-pramāṇa: the evidence is hearing; not by seeing. Seeing . . . our imperfect eyes . . . there are so many obstacles. So similarly, by direct perception you cannot have the truth.

Direct perception is speculation. Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog is speculating what is Atlantic Ocean. He is in the well, three-feet well, and some friend inform him, "Oh, I have seen vast water." "What is that vast water?" "Atlantic Ocean." "How big it is?" "Very, very big." So the Dr. Frog is thinking, "Maybe four feet. This well is three feet. It may be four feet. All right, five feet. Come on, ten feet." So in this way, speculating, how the frog, Dr. Frog, will understand Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean? Can you estimate the length and breadth of the Atlantic, Pacific Ocean by speculation? So by speculation you cannot have. They are speculating so many years about this universe, how many stars are there, what is the length and breadth, where is the . . . nobody knows anything even of the material world, and what to speak of the spiritual world. That is beyond, far beyond.

Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20), you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is another nature. This nature, what you see, the sky, a round dome, this, that, above that, there are layers of five elements again. This is the covering. Just like you have seen the coconut. There is hard covering, and within the covering there is water. Similarly, within this covering . . . and outside the covering there are five layers, thousand times bigger than the one another: water layer, air layer, fire layer. So you have to penetrate all these layers. Then you will get the spiritual world. All these universes, unlimited number, koṭi. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Jagad-aṇḍa means the universe. Koṭi, many millions clustered together, that is material world. And beyond that material world there is spiritual world, another sky. That is also sky. That is called paravyoma. So by your sense perception you cannot estimate even what is there in the moon planet or sun planet, this planet, within this universe. How you can understand the spiritual world by speculation? This is foolishness.

Therefore śāstra says, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet (Skanda Purāṇa). Acintya, which is inconceivable, beyond your sense perception, don't try to argue and understand it and speculate. This is foolishness. It is not possible. Therefore we have to go to the guru. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the process. But the demons, they do not know this is the process. They speculate; they manufacture. Simply by jugglery of words they manufacture their truth. No. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. That is in the Bhāgavatam, you'll find. And what is satyam? Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ tene brahma hṛdā . . . (SB 1.1.1). Everything is there.

So don't remain in the ignorant stage of life. That is called śūdra. Try to become brāhmaṇa. That is the meaning. It is not prohibited that one cannot become brāhmaṇa. No, one can become brāhmaṇa. If he gets association of a brāhmaṇa, if he agrees to be trained up by a brāhmaṇa, he can become brāhmaṇa. And brāhmaṇa means brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa, not by birth. Anyone who has full knowledge of the Supreme, he is brāhmaṇa. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. By birth everyone is śūdra. Even if he's born in a brāhmaṇa family he is śūdra. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. The saṁskāra means purification. That is satyaṁ śaucam. But the asuras, they do not want to be purified. They want to remain in the degraded stage of life. That is the difficulty. Otherwise it doesn't matter what he is, which family he's born. It doesn't matter.

Kṛṣṇa says, you'll find, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni. To take birth low-grade family, or animal family, these are called pāpa-yoni. Kṛṣṇa says that it doesn't matter if one is born in the pāpa-yoni, low-grade family. It doesn't matter. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. In the human society, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ, even woman and śūdra and vaiśya, they are also taken in the category of pāpa-yoni. Pāpa-yoni means their intelligence is not very sharp. That is called pāpa-yoni. And a brāhmaṇa means to become very, very highly intellectual. That is called brāhmaṇa. Because he'll understand Brahman.

To understand Brahman is not the business of teeny brain. Alpa-medhasam (BG 7.23). There are two Sanskrit words: alpa-medhasa and su-medhasa. Alpa-medhasa means having little brain substance. Physiologically, within the brain there are brain substance. It is found that the brain substance in man is found up to sixty-four ounce. They are very highly intellectual persons. And in woman the brain substance is not found more than thirty-four ounce. You'll find, therefore, that there is no very great scientist, mathematician, philosopher among women. You'll never find, because their brain substance cannot go. Artificially do not try to become equal with men. That is not allowed in the Vedic śāstra. Na striyaṁ svatantratām arhati (Manu-saṁhitā). That is called śāstra.

You have to understand that woman is never given to be independence. Independence means just like child has to be taken care, similarly, woman has to be taken care. You cannot let your child go in the street alone. There will be danger. Similarly, according to Vedic civilization, Manu-saṁhitā, woman should be given protection. In this way, ācāra. This is called ācāra. So the demons, they do not know. The demons, they do not know what is what, how one thing should be treated, how . . . they do not know. In the Western countries there is no such distinction between man and woman. But there is. We have to accept it and construct this social institution in that way. Then it will be perfect.

So everything should be learned from the standard Vedic literature, and society and other things, economic development, everything. So that is here in the Bhagavad-gītā. All problems, whatever you want, you consult Bhagavad-gītā—you'll have perfect answer. That is called Vedic literature. Perfect, without any flaw, you'll get. But to understand Vedic literature one has to become a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya. Even in vaiśya stage or śūdra stage no possible, not possible. Vaiśya stage, little, but in brāhmaṇa stage and kṣatriya stage people are intelligent. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā is said, Kṛṣṇa begins in the Fourth Chapter, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣayaḥ means king, kṣatriya, with qualification of brāhmaṇa. He has got . . . although he is king, he is not brāhmaṇa, but he has got the qualification of brāhmaṇa.

So that qualification of brāhmaṇa can be fully attained if one becomes Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is transcendental even to the brāhmaṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He becomes transcendental to the stage of all the three modes of material nature. There are three modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa is the stage of brāhmaṇa, rajo-guṇa is the stage of kṣatriya, and tamo-guṇa is the stage of śūdra, and mixed together is the stage of vaiśya. Vaiśya has mixed quality; and pure sattva-guṇa, brāhmaṇa; pure rajo-guṇa, kṣatriya.

So Kṛṣṇa says . . . Kṛṣṇa did not say Bhagavad-gītā to the loafer class. Kṛṣṇa said rājarṣi. Arjuna was a rājarṣi. So there are . . . because king would take responsibility. If the head man is taught very nicely everything about society, economic development and religion, if he is taught very nicely, then he can, I mean to say, introduce the ideas in the country. Therefore there was monarchy. The king would learn from the brāhmaṇas how to rule over the citizens. That was perfect. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Rāja and ṛṣi. Or rāja means king and ṛṣi means saintly person. So either the ṛṣis did know or the kings did know. Or a king who is not less than a ṛṣi, he could know and he could rule over. That is the Vedic injunction. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. But without being rājarṣi, without being highly qualified, nobody can understand.

Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to purify the people in general to the brāhmaṇa stage. Then they'll be, you'll be able to understand. Otherwise, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7). If he's not clean, if he has, he does not know how to behave, it is difficult. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is still more kind, that "Never mind whatever you are. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you become purified." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. It doesn't matter whether, what you are. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll be purified. Then you'll understand everything, what is God, what you are, what is your relation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)