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720223 - Lecture BG 16.05 - Calcutta

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720223BG-CALCUTTA - February 23, 1972 - 46:31 Minutes


(daivī sampad vimokṣāya)
. . . nibandhāyāsurī matā
mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm
abhijāto 'si pāṇḍava
(BG 16.5)

Arjuna is advised by Kṛṣṇa. He has described before the . . . what is daivī sampat and what is āsurī sampat. Abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir. These are daivī sampat:

abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir
dānaṁ damaś ca yajñaś ca
svādhyāyas tapa ārjavam
(BG 16.1)
ahiṁsā satyam akrodhas
tyāgaḥ śāntir apaiśunam
dayā bhūteṣv aloluptvaṁ
mārdavaṁ hrīr acāpalam
(BG 16.2)
tejaḥ kṣamā dhṛtiḥ śaucam
adroho nāti mānitā
bhavanti sampadaṁ daivīm
abhijātasya bhārata
(BG 16.3)

So there are two classes of men . . . there are two classes of men within this world. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said that viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ (Padma Purāṇa). Those are viṣṇu-bhaktas, devotee of Lord Viṣṇu . . . three deities—Viṣṇu, Maheśvara and Brahmā. Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So those who are devotees of Viṣṇu, they are devatā. Not that the asuras, just like Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was a great devotee of Lord Śiva, and Hiraṇyakaśipu was great devotee of Brahmā, but both of them have been described as asura and rākṣasa. They are great devotees. Therefore the conclusion is there are two classes of men, asura and devatā. The viṣṇu bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ, those who are devotees of Lord Viṣṇu, they are deva, devatā, or demigods, and asuras tad-viparyayaḥ.

What is the difference between devatā and asura? The . . . that is explained by Kṛṣṇa, that daivī sampad vimokṣāya (BG 16.5). If you develop your divine qualities, as they're described, ahiṁsā, sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ . . . sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. Sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ means existentional purification. Our . . . we, as spirit soul, we are pure originally, because Kṛṣṇa is pure. Arjuna accepts Kṛṣṇa, after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram-paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12): "You are paraṁ pavitra." And God is paraṁ pavitra is admitted in the Īśopaniṣad: apāpa-viddham (ISO 8), asnāviram.

Asnāviram means in the body of God there are no veins, and so therefore apāpa-viddham. Veins, as soon as you have got this veins, that is material body. The body is maintained under certain material condition. You eat, and this eating substance transformed into secretion, then through the veins this comes to the heart, and heart it becomes red, corpuscle, the blood, the blood is diffused. Therefore there are so many channels, veins. And these things are pushed on with air, and if there is shortage of air circulation, the man becomes paralyzed. This is scientific.

So these things are required for the material body, not for the spiritual body. In spiritual body, asnāviram, there is no vein. Therefore one who misunderstands Kṛṣṇa as having a material body, he has been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍhā. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). He has no veins. There is no difference between His body and soul. We have got difference with our body and soul; therefore this existence with this material body is not śuddha, is not pure. Therefore, sattva-saṁśuddhir, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir.

Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has described this abhayam means fearlessness. Because unless I become fearless, I cannot give up my present position. Just like, according to our Vedic system . . . not our, everyone. Vedic system is for everyone. It is not that for a particular class of men, Vedic system. That's wrong. When Kṛṣṇa says, catur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13), this Vedic system, it is for all, not for a particular country, a particular society. So the Vedic system is that one should accept the order, sannyāsa order, at the last stage of his life. Suppose one lives for a hundred years. He should become brahmacārī, student, for twenty-five years, then a married man for another twenty-five years, and after fifty years, pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet, he should accept the vana-vāsī. Vana-vāsī means vānaprastha. Vāna: from vana, vāna, "one who has gone to the forest," vānaprastha. So then, when he is prepared, he should take sannyāsa.

The whole institution is meant for sattva, sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. So one has to purify his existentional life; otherwise, if he does not purify his existence, then he has to transmigrate from one body to another, and that is material existence. That is material existence. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa). One has to transmigrate from lower species of life, aquatic life, to trees; from trees to insect; insect to birds; birds to beasts; and from beasts . . . that is evolution. That evolution is not Darwin's evolution. That evolution, it is called janmānta vāda. The soul is going from one body to another, not that the body is transforming. The Darwin's theory is that the body is transforming. No. Body cannot transform. Body can take the shape according to the desire of the soul, or according to the effects, resultant action, of one's karma.

So different types of bodies are all there. Just like, in Calcutta, there are different types of apartments. So you can take an apartment or purchase an apartment according to the price you pay. That is . . . that is evolution. If you can pay more, then you can get nice body, nice apartment. This body is apartment. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). If you are regulated in the modes of goodness, sattva-sthā, sattva-guṇa, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher system of life. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sañjāyate (BG 6.41). One who is not mature in his performance of yoga, he is given chance, another chance—another chance in a very nice family, śucīnām, very pure brāhmin family; and śrīmatām, very rich, royal or very rich mercantile family. These are chances.

Nature, under the order of Kṛṣṇa, is giving chance to us, giving chance to us to come out of the entanglement of birth and death: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). One should be intelligent to see the troubles of these four incidences of life: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is the whole Vedic system—how to get out of these clutches. But they're given chance that, "You do this, you do that, you do that," so regulated life, so that ultimately he can come out.

Therefore Bhagavān said, daivī sampad vimokṣāya (BG 16.5). If you develop daivī sampat, these qualities, as described—ahiṁsā, sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ, ahiṁsā, so many things—then you'll get out, vimokṣāya. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is vimokṣāya. They're so blind. They do not know that there is some position which is called vimokṣāya. They do not know. They do not know what is next life. There is no educational system. I am traveling all over the world. There is not a single institution which is meant for giving education about the transmigration of the soul, how one can get better life. But they don't believe. They have no knowledge. That is āsurī sampat.

That will be described here: pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Pravṛttim. Pravṛttim means attraction, or attachment. In what sort of activities we should be attached, and what sort of activities we shall be detached, that, the asuras, they do not know. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca.

pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca
janā na vidur āsuraḥ
na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro
na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate
(BG 16.7)

These are the asuras. They do not know how their life should be directed, in which direction. That is called pravṛtti. And what sort of life they should be detached, give up, nivṛtti. Pravṛttis tu jīvātmana. That is another. Bhunam. Pravṛttis . . . nivṛttis tu mahāphalām (Manu Smṛti 5.56). The whole śāstra, whole Vedic direction is for pravṛtti-nirvṛtti. They are gradually training. Just like loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā sujantoḥ. A living entity has got natural inclination for vyavāya, sex life; and madya sevāḥ, intoxication; āmiṣa sevāḥ, and meat-eating. A natural instinct there is. But asuras, they do not try to stop it. They want to increase it. That is asura life.

I have got some disease. If I want to cure it, then doctor gives me some prescription that, "You don't take." Just like diabetic patient, he is forbidden that, "Don't take sugar, don't take starch." Nivṛtti. Similarly, the śāstra gives us direction that you should be accepting these things and you should be not accepting these things, śāstra. Just like in our Society, we have picked up the most essential nivṛtti and pravṛtti. The pravṛtti . . . we are instructing our students, "No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, no āmiṣa-sevā." Āmiṣa-sevā nityā sujantoḥ.

But the śāstra says that if you can give up nivṛttis tu mahāphalām, then your life is successful. But we are not prepared. If you are not prepared to accept the pravṛttis and not to accept the nivṛttis, then one must know that he is asura. Kṛṣṇa says here, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ (BG 16.7). They do not . . . "Oh, what is that?" They say, even the big, big svamīs will say: "Oh, what is there wrong? You can eat anything. It doesn't matter. You can do anything. You simply give me fees, and I give you some special mantra." These things are going on.

So because we want such cheaters . . . if I say . . . just like in our Society, if you had been given the freedom, "Now, whatever you like you can do," millions of students would have come. But that is not possible. We don't make any compromise like that, that "You can do whatever you like. You can eat whatever you like." No. We don't restrict to the ordinary man, but if one comes forward to become our student, serious student, then he must follow this pravṛtti-nirvṛtti. Otherwise he remains asura. What . . . we have to make an asura a deva. That is our process. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that it is not that, that if a man is born in an asura family he cannot be deva. No. He can be deva. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ means asura-yonayaḥ, or lower than asura-yonayaḥ. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Everyone has got a chance.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance to everyone to become devatā. It is so nice movement. Because without becoming devatā he'll be entangled. He'll be entangled. He'll have to. He has to continue this four process of birth, death, disease and old age. That he has to. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that daivī sampad vimokṣāya. If you want to get rid of this troublesome material existence, threefold miserable condition of material existence, then you have to develop daivī sampat. That can be developed. It is not that stereotype: one who is condemned, he cannot be raised. No. Anyone can be raised. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Jagāi and Mādhāi. They fell down. They're born . . . they are born in brāhmin family, nice family, but due to bad association they became drunkard, they became woman-hunters, meat-eaters, gambling, so many, all these good qualities.

At the present moment, in the human society, without these they are not civilized. They must have a club. What is this club? I have seen in Germany. Just like we have got, after few steps, a pān-bīḍī shop, similarly, in Hamburg I have seen, a few steps after there is a small club. What is the business of the club? The business of club, that a young woman should be there, and there should be wine and cards for playing gambling. And whenever they get holiday, they . . . you won't find him at home. He has immediately gone to the club. You see? So these things . . . not only in Germany. About, say, thirty years ago, one of my Godbrother went to England, and Lord Zetland, he said that "Whether, Swāmījī, you can make us brāhmin?" So he proposed these four things, "Yes. We can make you brāhmin, provided you give up these bad habits." "What is that?" "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication." He said: "It is impossible. This is our life!" You see?

So it is very difficult. It is very . . . therefore the pravṛtti-nirvṛtti, the Vedic rules, have been formulated in such a way that if a man has got pravṛtti for meat-eating or drinking or for sex-life or gambling . . . so we know that gambling is allowed on the Kālī-pūjā day. We know. Especially northern Indian people, mercantile people, they take it, advantage, gambling. And sex life is allowed, married life. That is gradually nivṛtti, married life; otherwise they will become upstarts. The society will be lost. And meat-eating allowed also: "All right. Just offer a goat before Kālī and take that." Not purchase from the market or slaughterhouse. No.

So these things are there just to gradually make him refrain from all these habits. Nivṛtti. This is Vedic. Not that "Oh, there is in the Vedas Kālī-pūjā. We are devotees of Kālī." Why? For meat-eating. That's all. They are . . . they become devotees of Kālī only for meat-eating. That's all. There is no other devotion. So actually . . . so nivṛtti. But that is nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga. And in the Vaiṣṇava philosophy that immediately, immediately give up these things; otherwise it will be not possible. Because in the next line it is said:

daivī sampad vimokṣāya
nibandhāyāsurī matā
mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm
abhijāto 'si pāṇḍava
(BG 16.5)

"My dear Pāṇḍava, Arjuna, don't be afraid." Because as soon as Kṛṣṇa said that daivī sampad vimokṣāya, nibandhāyāsurī matā, so, nibhandāya āsurī matā, "I am fighting now." This is the business of āsurī. "I am now violent." So he became afraid that, "Then I am also an āsurī sampat." That Kṛṣṇa immediately said, "No, no, no, don't be afraid." Mā śucaḥ. Mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm. "My dear Arjuna, you don't be afraid. Don't . . . don't be worried." "Why?" "Because you have no āsurī." "I am fighting." "You are fighting for Me; therefore you are not asura."

Those who are fighting for their sense gratification, they're asuras, but if need be fighting for, for cause, right cause . . . of course, everyone thinks right cause; therefore it should be confirmed. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna fought when he understood that, "This fighting is right cause. It is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa." Then it is right cause. You cannot make your right cause. You cannot formulate that, "This is right cause." That is mental concoction. You must get it sanctioned. That is a principle of daivī life, divine life.

Divine life means, as it is stated in the Bhāgavata, that ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭha. In Naimiṣāraṇya, all the big brāhmins were addressed by Suta Gosvāmī, and he said that, "My dear all the great brāhmins, you are present here," ataḥ puṁsāṁ dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are different duties of the varṇa and āśrama. A brāhmin has got his duty, a kṣatriya has got his duty. Now, a kṣatriya's duty is fighting. So how this fighting can be utilized as perfection of life?

Nobody will say: "Oh! Fighting, how it is perfection, killing others?" No. There is perfection. What is that? Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭha varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya (SB 1.2.13). You are kṣatriya; your dharma is fighting. You try to please the Supreme Lord by your fighting. That is perfection. You are brāhmin, so you try to please the Supreme Lord by your brahminical knowledge. What is that brahminical? Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So one who knows brahma, he is brāhmin.

Then, the next stage is for brāhmin to become Vaiṣṇava. To become Vaiṣṇava. Because brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham. Simply one . . . if one stop simply by brahma knowledge and does not make further progress, that is not perfection. Perfection is, Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the origin of brahma-jyotir." Therefore from the brahma-jyotir one should make progress up to Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine. You are in, everyone, is sunshine. That's all right. But if you have got power, then you'll reach the sun planet, you'll see the sun-god, because the original source of the sunshine is the sun-god. Similarly, brahma-jyotir, the origin of brahma-jyotir is Kṛṣṇa, brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhā. Brahmajyoti is emanating from the body of Kṛṣṇa. It is . . . it is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagand-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). So in this way we make progress.

So here Arjuna, although he was fighter, Arjuna did not change his position. He did not become a brāhmin. After hearing Bhagavad-gītā it is not that he gave up his profession as a kṣatriya and went to Himalaya to become a brāhmin, meditation. No. He became perfect by his own profession. How? Because he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. So you can be situated in any position—that does not matter—but try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement: how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. It is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says . . .

Now you can say that, "Arjuna was a fighter, and there was great need of the Kurukṣetra fighting, so he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. But I am a poor man, I am not kṣatriya, not . . . (indistinct) . . ." That doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). No, you come here. Here is Kṛṣṇa. You always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. You become devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Whatever you can, offer to Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: you worship Kṛṣṇa. If you don't come here, you can do it in . . . at your home. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Somehow or other, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no difficulty. "No, I have no money. I cannot worship Kṛṣṇa in this way, such gorgeously." No. That Kṛṣṇa does not say. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam (BG 9.26): "If you are poor man, all right, you give Me little fruit, little flower, little water, I'll eat it." Then what do you want more? Or if you cannot do anything, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so easy. Everyone can take it and make his life successful. Daivī sampad vimokṣāya nibandhāyāsurī matā, mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ . . . (BG 16.5). Here, just to tell the devotees that even they are engaged . . . that Hanumān become engaged in fighting with Rāvaṇa, but he became the greatest devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. Arjuna also became engaged with, in fighting with the Kauravas, and he is the greatest. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). Kṛṣṇa gives certificate to him: "You are My dear friend, priyo 'si bhakto 'si." Similarly, we can do everything for Kṛṣṇa. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:

āmāra ajñāya guru hañā tara ei deśa
yāre kaha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
(CC Madhya 7.128)

Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa . . . everyone, we can do that. There is no difficulty. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā (SB 10.22.35). Any . . . somebody can dedicate his life, somebody can dedicate his money, somebody can dedicate his intelligence, somebody can dedicate his words. So it is not at all difficulty.

In this way, simply by accepting the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one develops the daivī sampat, divine quality. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ. As soon as one becomes devotee, with all the divinely, godly qualities one becomes developed.

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā
sarvair guṇair tatra samāsate surāḥ
harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ
(SB 5.18.12)

Because people are not devotees of God, therefore despite all education, all advancement of scientific knowledge, still they are dealing like cats and dogs. They are not peaceful. The peace cannot be attained without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ahaṁ hi sarva-yajñānāṁ bhoktā ca prabhur eva ca (BG 9.24). Simply by practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness there can be peace, there can be prosperity, there can be happiness. Otherwise, we shall be entangled. It is clearly mentioned here by Kṛṣṇa, daivī sampad vimokṣāya.

And daivī sampat means, the example is Arjuna. He immediately takes up, Arjuna: mā śucaḥ. "You are . . . you are already developed with daivī, daivī sampat." Mā śucaḥ: "You haven't got to worry." Mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm abhijāto 'si. Abhijāto 'si: "From the birth you are born devotee; therefore daivī sampat. You are born devotee." The Pāṇḍava, whole Pāṇḍava family, they are devotees. Therefore, simply if you become devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, then you acquire all the daivī sampat, and then your life is successful. You become.

In another place also Kṛṣṇa says, in the Fourth Chapter, that janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). Without daivī sampat nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Without daivī sampat. Both ways. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then automatically the daivī sampat will be developed; or by developing daivī sampat you can understand Kṛṣṇa. But that is very difficult. Better you touch the electric and you become electrified. Simply by. Simply by māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicārena bhakti-yogena sevate (BG 14.26). That Kṛṣṇa advised. Simply avyabhicāreṇa, pure devotional service. If you engage yourself in pure devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, then sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kal . . . (BG 14.26), immediately you become elevated to the position of Brahman.

These things are described very nicely, explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Our only propaganda is that you try to avoid these four principles of sinful life: illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read Bhagavad-gītā—your life is successful.

Thank you very much.

(break) . . . on this subject.

Guest: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā teaches us that one should treat a piece of gold . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest: . . . a piece of gold and a piece of stone alike. Is it practically considered?

Prabhupāda: Where it is stated?

Devotee: One should treat a piece of gold and a piece of stone . . .

Prabhupāda: Where it is stated?

Guest: In the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Where? You recite the śloka.

Guest: Well, I can't . . .

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is not question. If you have no clear idea, where the question? Where it is stated? Do you . . . are practically can do that—a piece of gold and piece of stone, the same thing? There is a verse, sama-loṣṭrāśma-kāñcanaḥ (BG 6.8). So that is very advanced stage, when one knows that everything is made of matter, so what is the value? Why you can't give more value to the stone, because originally everything is made of matter?

There is one thing, paṇḍitāh sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). But that is when one has attained a very perfectional stage, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man, you cannot say that, "I treat a piece of stone and piece of gold the same way." Then why don't you take a piece of stone? Can you say? Suppose if you have gone to a, purchasing to a goldsmith shop. So I say: "Sir, you take this ornament made of stone and you pay me the price of gold," would you agree? Then there is no such . . .

It must be practical. In the practical life that is very higher stage. Those who do not care either for . . . just like Sanatāna Gosvāmī. Sanatāna Goswāmī was (in) Vṛndāvana. He was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, always. Then, one brāhmin, he was very poor—perhaps you know this story—he worshiped Lord Śiva, and when Lord Śiva was pleased, then he wanted to take him . . . give him some benediction. So, "What do you want?" So he said: "Give me the best thing, so I shall be the greatest of all." That he said: "Oh, I haven't got such thing, but if you want, you go to Sanatāna Goswāmī." "Where is Sanatāna Gosvāmī?" "Vṛndāvana."

So when he went there, so he had a touchstone. The touchstone was kept with the garbage. And he asked him, "All right, you take that. You are poor man. You take the stone, and if you touch this stone with iron, it will turn into gold. You take this. Find out in that garbage." So he took it and went away.

So on the street he began to think that, "Lord Śiva advised me that 'He has the best thing. You go there.' But he has given me this stone—it is very nice—but why did he keep it with the garbage? He has not delivered me the best thing." So he returned back. So when he returned back, then Sanatāna Goswāmī . . . he said: "Sir, I . . . I . . . this is very nice, but I don't think this is the best thing, because Lord Śiva said me that you have the best thing. If it is the best thing, why did you keep it with the garbage?"

So Sanatāna Goswāmī smiled and said: "Yes, it is not the best thing, but for you it was the best thing. You want more than this, more valuable?" "Yes, sir. For that purpose I came." "Then take this stone and throw in the Yamunā." So he threw it and, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." You see? Those who are actually attached, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), for them it is equally valuable. Not for ordinary men.

So we cannot jump to the highest position. That is not possible. Therefore we have to go abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ. This process is recommended. Kṛṣṇa says, and Kṛṣṇa says also this. So actually, Kṛṣṇa says ultimately, sarva-guhyatamam, "The most confidential knowledge I am giving you: sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is the most confidential."

So, so long we are not able to come to the platform of thinking the gold and the stone on the equal value, we have to follow these rules and regulation. But that is the highest consideration. Just like Sanatāna Goswāmī, he didn't care for this touchstone. Not for the ordinary man. The ordinary man cannot make that all of a sudden; therefore it is not for him.

So what was the purpose of saying that Gītā says sama-loṣṭrāśma-kāñcanaḥ (BG 6.8)? Why did you raise this question? What is the purpose? We cannot raise, ordinary man, but why did you raise this question? What is the purpose?

Guest: I think this is practical for a householder.

Prabhupāda: But I don't think . . . then where is the difference? Therefore, household luxury is allowed up to fiftieth year in order to learn, pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. That is Vedic system. Not to remain householder until you are fired, you see, or you are taken by death. Just like our big leaders: they won't give up their householder's life unless he is fired to death, or death takes him. That is not very good proposition. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that this householder life means it is a concession for sense gratification. That's all.

But our position is that we should not continue sense gratification for all the life. The sense gratification process is going on by the hogs and dogs throughout the whole life, but we should not be like hogs and dogs. We should cease at a certain time. Pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. So far; no more. That should be our motive. Not that continue. That . . . that is Vedic way of life, pravṛttiṁ-nivṛtti. So long pravṛtti, attraction for household life, and next nivṛtti: "Now I shall be detached." But the asuras, as it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janāḥ (BG 16.7). And if you continue simply pravṛtti-mārga, then you'll remain asura; you don't become deva.

The whole process, Vedic system, is even if we are asuras, gradually by practice, by good association, by following the principles of śāstra, we can become deva. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, actually we're doing that. These boys, they are so . . . according to our śāstra, they are born in asura families, I say, (laughs) but they are coming deva. And they have become devas.

So that is not impossible. It doesn't matter, janmana jāyate śūdraḥ saṅskarād bhaved dvijaḥ. Anyone can be born of lowborn, śūdra-born, or lower than śūdra born, but by this process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca pāpā (SB 2.4.18)—more than, still lower born—śudhyanti prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. That is the wonderful, I mean to say, power of the Supreme Lord.

So we are trying to bring everyone—Hindus, Muslims, or mlecchas, Yavanas, Kirāta, Hūṇa, Āndhras—anyone come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no limitation. We don't say, "No. Because you are born in this family, you cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Everyone can do. Just like in Africa they are also taking. They are becoming Vaiṣṇava. So this is our main business. This is the business of every Indian. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said:

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Janma sārthaka kari. First of all we have to make our life perfect by following these principles. Not that we shall remain all along gṛhastha. No. That is not Vedic injunction. At a certain age you must give up your gṛhastha life. Whatever is done is done. That's all. Finished. That is Vedic civilization.

Brahmacārī, vānaprastha, uh . . . gṛhastha, vānaprastha, then sannyāsa. Four orders of spiritual life and four orders of material life, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇāśrama-dharma. So India, it is specially practiced, India, this bhārata-bhūmi. Therefore bhārata-bhūmi is called puṇya-bhūmi. But we are giving up all these things. We are becoming allured by something else. That is our misfortune. (end)