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681018 - Lecture - Seattle

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

681018LE-SEATTLE - October 18, 1968 - 93:07 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (repeated three times with devotees repeating)
cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-
lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam
govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (repeated three times with devotees repeating)
(Bs. 5.29)

Thank you. So we are worshiping Govindam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original person. So this sound, govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi, is reaching Him. He is hearing. You cannot say that He is not hearing. Can you say? No.

Especially in this scientific age, when television, radio messages are broadcast thousands and thousands of miles away, and you can hear, now why can you . . .? Why Kṛṣṇa cannot hear your prayer, sincere prayer? How can you say? Nobody can deny it.

So, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Just like thousands and thousands miles away you can transfer the television picture or your radio sound, similarly, if you can prepare yourself, then you can see always Govinda. It is not difficult. This is stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Simply you have to prepare your eyes, your mind in that way. Here is a television box within your heart.

This is the perfection of yoga. It is not you have to purchase one machine, or television set. It is there, and God is also there. You can see, you can hear, you can talk, provided you have got the machine. You repair it, that's all. The repairing process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, everything is supplied, complete, complete set of machine you have got within you.

And just like for repairing, an expert mechanic required, similarly, you require the help of someone expert. Then you'll see that your machine is working. It is not difficult to understand. Nobody can say that it is not possible. In the śāstra we hear also. Sādhu śāstra, guru vākya, tinete kariya aikya.

Spiritual realization can be perfected by three parallel process. Sādhu. Sādhu means saintly persons, who are realized souls, sādhu. And śāstra. Śāstra means scriptures, authoritative scriptures, Vedic scriptures, śāstra. Sādhu, śāstra and guru, a spiritual master. Three parallel line.

And if you place your car or vehicle on these three parallel line, your car will go direct to Kṛṣṇa. Tinete kariyā aikya. Just like in the railway line you see two parallel lines. If they are in order, the railway carriages are carried very smoothly to the destination. Here also, there are three parallel lines—sādhu, śāstra, guru: saintly person, association of saintly person, acceptance of bona fide spiritual master, and faith in the scriptures. That's all. Then your carriage will be going nicely, without any disturbance. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, cittete kariyā aikya (Prema-bhakti-candrikā).

So here in the Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead explaining Himself, Kṛṣṇa. So if you say, "How can I believe that Kṛṣṇa said? Somebody has written in the name of Kṛṣṇa that 'Kṛṣṇa said,' 'God said.' " No. This is called disciplic succession. You will see in this book, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa said, and how Arjuna understood.

These things are described there. And the sādhu, saintly person, beginning from Vyāsadeva, Nārada, down to many ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and latest, Lord Caitanya, in this way, they have accepted, "Yes. It is spoken by Kṛṣṇa." So this is the proof: if saintly persons have accepted. They have not denied. Authorities, they have accepted, "Yes." This is called sādhu.

And because sādhu, saintly persons, have accepted, therefore it is scripture. That is the test. Just like . . . it is common sense affair. If the lawyers accept some book, then it is to be understood that this is law book. You cannot say that "How can I accept this is law?" The evidence is the lawyers are accepting. Medical . . . if the medical practitioners accept, then that is authoritative medical book. Similarly, if saintly persons are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as scripture, you cannot deny it.

So sādhu śāstra: saintly person and scriptures, two things, and with spiritual master, three, three parallel lines, who accept the sādhu and the scripture. Sādhu confirms the scripture and spiritual master accept the scripture. Simple process. So they are not in disagreement. What is spoken in the scripture is accepted by saintly person, and what is spoken in the scripture, the spiritual master explains only that thing. That's all.

So via media is the scripture. Just like lawyer and the litigants—via media is the law book. Similarly, the spiritual master, the scripture . . . saintly person means who confirms the Vedic injunction, who accepts. And scripture means what is accepted by the saintly person. And spiritual master means who follows the scripture.

So things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. This is axiomatic truth. If you have got hundred dollars, and another man has got hundred dollar, and if I have got hundred dollar, then we are all equal. Similarly, sādhu śāstra guru vākya, when these three parallel lines in agreement, then life is success.

So here Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā, mayy āsakta-manāḥ (BG 7.1), about the yoga system. He has already concluded in the Sixth Chapter the yoga system. In the first six chapters it is explained what is the constitutional position of the living entity. There are eighteen chapters in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first six chapters explains only the constitutional position of the living entities. And when it is understood . . . just like when you understand your actual position, then your activities actually begins. If you do not know what is your actual position . . . suppose in a office, if your post is not settled up what duty you have to execute, then you cannot do anything very nicely. Here is a typist, here is clerk, here is a peon, here is a this and that. So they are executing their work very nicely.

So one has to understand what is the constitutional position of the living entity. So that is explained in the first six chapters. Adyena śastena upāsakasya jīvasya svarūpa-prāpti-sādhanaṁ ca pradhānaṁ niṁ proktam. Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana, has a very nice, authorized commentator on the Bhagavad-gītā, he says that in the first six chapters the constitutional position of the living entity has been very nicely explained. And how one can understand his constitutional position, that is also explained. So the yoga system means to understand his constitutional position. Yoga indriya samjyam.

We are busy with sense activities. The material life means business of sense activities. The whole world activity, when you go stand on the street, you will see everybody's very busy. The storekeeper is busy, the motor-driver is busy. Everyone is very busy—so busy that so many accidents in business. Now, why they are busy? If you minutely study what is their business, the business is sense gratification. That's all. Everyone is busy how to gratify senses. This is material. And yoga means to control the senses, to understand my spiritual position, my constitutional position.

Just like a boy who is accustomed to playing only, he cannot concentrate in his study, in understanding his future life or in elevating himself, a higher position. Similarly, if we are engaged like child without knowing the future of life, simply playing with the senses, that is called material life. The difference between material life and spiritual life is that if somebody is simply engaged in sense gratification business, that is called material life. And out of many thousands of such materialistic persons, if somebody is trying to understand, "What I am? Why I have come here? Why I am put into so many miserable condition of life? Is there any remedy?" these questions, when arises, then, practically, his spiritual life begins.

And the human form of life is meant for that. In animal life they do not know anything except sense gratification. They have no power. Their consciousness is not developed. Just like in the Green Lake park, there are so many ducks. As soon as somebody goes there with some little food, oh they gather, "Quack! quack! quack! quack!" (laughter) That's all. And after eating, they are enjoying sex life. That's all. So similarly, like cats and dogs and these animals, the human life is also like that if there is no question "What I am?" If they are simply directed by the sense urges, they are no better than these ducks and dogs.

So therefore, in the first six chapters it has been decided that a living entity is a spiritual spark. It is very difficult to find out where the spark is, because it is so small, minute. There is no material microscope or machine to find out. But it is there. It is there. The symptom is, because it is there in my body, because it is there in your body, therefore you are moving, you are talking, you are planning—so many things you are doing—simply for that spiritual spark.

So we are very minute spark of the supreme spirit. Just like there are in the sunshine minute particles, shining particles. With shining, these shining particles, when they are mixed together, that is sunshine. But they are molecules. They are separate, atomic molecules. Similarly, in relationship with God and ourself, we are also minute particles of God, shining.

Shining means we have got the same propensities—thinking, feeling, willing, creating, everything. Whatever you see in yourself, that is there in God. So God cannot be impersonal, because we are all person. I have got so many propensities—that is very minute quantity. The same propensities are there in Kṛṣṇa, or God, but that is very great, unlimited.

This is the study of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply greatness, my position is very small. And we are so small, infinitesimal; still, we have got so many propensities, so many desires, so many activities, so many brain work. Just imagine how much greater brain work and desire and propensities are there in God, because He's great.

His greatness means all these things, what you have got, that is existing in Him in greatness. That's all. Qualitatively, we are one, but quantitatively, we are different. He's great, we are small. He is infinite; we are infinitesimal. Therefore the conclusion is, just like infinite particles of fire, sparks, when they are with the fire, they look very nice with fire and spark.

But when the sparks are out of the fire, main fire, they extinguish. No more fire. Similarly, we are sparks of Kṛṣṇa, or God. When we associate with God, then our that illuminating power, fire, is renovated. Otherwise, we are extinguished.

Although you are sparks, our present life, this material life, is covered. The spark is covered, or extinguished almost. This is only example; it cannot be extinguished. If it is extinguished, how we are manifesting our living condition? It is not extinguished, but it is covered. Just like when fire is covered, you'll feel heat on the covering, but you cannot see the fire directly. Similarly, this spiritual spark is covered by his material dress; therefore we cannot see. The doctor says, "Oh, the bodily function has failed; therefore heart has failed. He is dead."

But why heart fails he does not know. There is no medical science, calculated. They will say so many reasons, that "Because the blood corpuscles, red corpuscles, has ceased to function, it has become white—therefore it is . . ." No. This is not right answer. The blood can be made red . . . or redness is not life. There are many natural product which is red by nature. That does not mean there is life. So this argument, that red corpuscles have ceased, therefore life has ceased—no. There are so many arguments and counterarguments.

Actually, this is the fact, because we are speaking on the strength of scripture, saintly persons and spiritual master. That is the way of understanding. You cannot manufacture with your tiny brain, imperfect senses. Human being, they're imperfect, always. Just, for example, that a child is seeing the sun, and a scientist is seeing the sun. By nature, the child, their knowledge of the sun is imperfect. The same child, when he takes instruction from a scientist, he can understand the sun is so great. Therefore direct perception of knowledge by our these senses is always imperfect. You have to approach authority—in every sphere of life.

Similarly, if you want to understand what is God, then you have to take shelter of this Bhagavad-gītā. There is no alternative. You cannot speculate that, "God may be like this, God may be like that," "There is no God," "God is dead," "God is not dead." This is simply speculation. Here Kṛṣṇa says:

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuṣjan mad-āśrayaḥ
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
(BG 7.1)

If you believe that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is speaking personally, as Arjuna believed, then you can understand what is God. Otherwise it is not possible. Asaṁśayam.

So the process is, the first process is, mayy āsakta-manāḥ. You have to constantly engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa. That is the yoga process, which is, which we are presenting as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . just like if you constantly join yourself with the electric powerhouse, there is incessant supply of electric energy. Similarly, if you constantly engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa, that is also not very difficult.

Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa is beautiful. Kṛṣṇa has so many activities. The whole Vedic literature is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. This Bhagavad-gītā is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. Simply by understanding that God is great, that is neutral state of understanding. But you have to elevate more and more, how great He is.

How great He is, it is not possible to understand, because our senses are always imperfect. But as far as possible you can hear about the activities of God, about the position of God, and you can think over it, and you can make your judgment, you can put your argument. Then you will understand without any doubt what is God.

The first beginning is, mayy āsakta-manāḥ. In the last chapter Kṛṣṇa has explained that one who is constantly absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogī. First-class yogī. In your country the yoga system is very popular, but you do not know who is a first-class yogī. The first-class yogī (i) explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47), that out of many, many thousands of yogī, the yogī or bhakta-yogī who is always seeing within himself, within his heart, the form of Kṛṣṇa, he's first-class. He's first class.

So you have to continue that first-class yoga system, and that is explained here, mayy āsakta-manāḥ: being attached. Mind is the vehicle for being attached. If you are attached to somebody, some boy, some girl, some person . . . generally, we become attached to a person. Impersonal attachment is bogus thing.

If you want to be attached, that attachment must be personal. Is it not a fact? Impersonal attachment . . . you cannot love the sky, but you can love the sun, you can love the moon, you can love the stars, because they are localized person. And if you want to love the sky, it is very difficult for you. You have to come again to this sun.

So yoga system, culminating in perfection, in love . . . so you have to love somebody, person. That is Kṛṣṇa. Just like here is a picture. Rādhārāṇī is loving Kṛṣṇa and offering His (her) flowers to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is playing with His flute. So you can think of this picture nicely, always, then you will become constantly in yoga, samādhi.

Why impersonal? Why you something, something void? Void cannot be. If you think something void, there will be something light, something color, colorful, so many things we will find. But that is also form. How you can avoid form? That is not possible.

Therefore why don't you concentrate your mind to the real form, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the controller, the supreme controller, who has got a body? How? Vigrahaḥ. Vigrahaḥ means body. And what sort of body? Sac-cid-ānanda, eternal body, full of bliss, full of knowledge. That body. Not like body like this. This body is full of ignorance, full of miseries, and not eternal. Just opposite.

His body is eternal; my body is not eternal. His body is full of bliss; my body is full of miseries, always something troubling me—headache, toothache, this ache, that ache. Somebody is . . . has given me personal trouble. So many. Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, severe heat, severe cold, so many things. This body is always under threefold miseries, this material body.

So if you think of Kṛṣṇa, that is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, if you practice this yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how? Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means "taking shelter of somebody who is in touch with Me." Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means directly in touch with Him. Directly you are in touch with Him as soon as you think of Him, His form.

But unless you take shelter of a spiritual master who knows about Him, you cannot concentrate for a long time. It may be temporary. Therefore you have to hear from a person who knows about Kṛṣṇa. Then your concentration of mind on Kṛṣṇa will continue. You have to act according to his direction. Everything, your life should be molded in such a way under the direction of the spiritual master. Then you can continue this yoga system perfectly.

What is that yoga system? That yoga system explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Sixth Chapter, last verse, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47): "One who is always thinking of Me," mad-gata, "he is first-class yogī." In many places it is stated. Premāṣjana-cchurita. How you can think of Kṛṣṇa unless you develop love for Kṛṣṇa? Just like Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī, She has come. She was married, and household life, but She has come to Kṛṣṇa to worship Him.

Similarly, we have to place Kṛṣṇa always in our mind, think of Him. Then this very process, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, "Under the protection of Myself, of My representative, when you understand samagram, perfectly well, then your life is successful." Asaṁśayam: "without any doubt."

Not that because your spiritual master says that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." No. If you have got any doubt, just question, just try to understand. It is a fact that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead, undoubtedly. But if you have got some doubt, you can clear it. Asaṁśayam. In this way, if you practice this yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the topmost of all yoga system, asaṁśayam samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi (BG 7.1), then you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, perfectly well, without any doubt, and your life will be successful.

Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question?

Jaya-gopāla: What is the difference between bhava and prema?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jaya-gopāla: What is the difference between bhava and prema?

Prabhupāda: Prema is mature condition of bhava. Just like a ripe mango and green mango. Green mango is the cause of ripe mango. But to taste ripe mango is better than unripe mango. Similarly, before attaining love of Godhead, you have got different stages. Just like the same mango, it passes through different stages, then one day it comes nice yellow color, fully ripened, and taste is so nice.

The same mango. The mango does not change, but it comes to the mature stage. So this . . . as this example, the mango is in the beginning a flower, then gradually a little fruit. Then gradually it grows. Then it becomes very tight, green, and then, gradually, it becomes little, little yellowish, and it becomes fully ripe.

This is the process of everything. In material world also, there are six processes, and the last process is vanquish. This mango example or any other material example, we can accept it so far the growth is required, concerned, but material example is not perfect. Just like mango, when it is ripe, somebody eats, that's all right.

Otherwise it will overripe, it will decompose, it will fall down and finish. That is material. But spiritual is not like that. It is not finished. If you once come to the stage of mature stage of love, then that perfectional stage continues eternally, and your life is successful. Premā pum-artho mahān (Caitanya-maṣjusā).

There are many different types of perfection in this material world. Somebody is thinking, "This is perfection of life." Materialists, they are thinking, "If I can enjoy my senses very nicely, that is perfection of life." That is their point of view. And when they are frustrated, they find out, or try to find out, something better. So if he's not guided, something better means the same—sex and intoxication. That's all.

Simply become irresponsible. That's all. Because there is no guide. He's finding out, searching out something better, but because there is no guide, he comes to the same sense or sex and intoxication—to forget. A businessman, when he's failure, so much disturbance, he tries to forget him by drinking.

But this is artificial way. This is not actually the remedy. How long you can forget? Sleep—how long you can sleep? Again wake up, again you are in the same position. That is not the way. But if you come to the stage of love of Godhead, then naturally you forget all this nonsense. Naturally. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If you find out something more palatable, more relishable, you give up nonsense things which is not so nice to taste.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a thing. It is leading you to a standard where going, you will forget all this nonsense. That is real life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). As soon as you come that state, then your symptom will be that you are jolly. You are feeling everywhere. There is a . . . there are many instances. So when you accept this material world in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you'll taste that love of Godhead, even in this material world.

Actually, material world means completely in forgetfulness of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is material world. Otherwise, if you are in full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, you'll find only spiritual world, even in this material world. Consciousness—it is all consciousness. The same example: Just like the king and the bug is sitting on the same throne, but the bug knows that, "My business is simply to get some blood." That's all.

The king knows that, "I have to rule. I am the ruler of this country." So sitting on the same place, but the consciousness is different. Similarly, if you change your consciousness to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, wherever you are, you are in Vaikuṇṭha. Wherever. It doesn't matter.


Guest: I would like you to explain the origin and significance of what you . . . what they call the Jagannātha car festival.

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha festival is significance is that when Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana . . . Kṛṣṇa was raised by His foster father, Nanda Mahārāja. But when He was grown up, sixteen years old, He was taken away by His real father, Vasudeva, and They left Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma, two brothers, and They were resident . . . their kingdom was in Dvārakā.

So in Kurukṣetra—Kurukṣetra is always dharma-kṣetra, pilgrimage—there was some lunar . . . solar eclipse, and many persons from many parts of India, they came to take bath. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma and Their sister Subhadra, They also came in royal fashion, with so many soldiers and so many . . . just like king. So these residents of Vṛndāvana, they met Kṛṣṇa, and especially the gopīs, they saw Kṛṣṇa, and they lamented that "Kṛṣṇa, You are here, we are also here, but the place is different. We are not in Vṛndāvana."

So there is a long story how they lamented and how Kṛṣṇa pacified them. This is a feeling of separation, how the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana felt separation from Kṛṣṇa. So this . . . when Kṛṣṇa came on chariot, that is called Ratha-yātrā. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā. So any pastimes made by Kṛṣṇa, that is observed in ceremonial form by the devotees. So that is Ratha-yātrā.

Guest: How may we recognize yogamāyā?

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is your question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to know how we may recognize yogamāyā, how we may know.

Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm

Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā means that which connects you. Yoga means connection. When you are being gradually advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the action of yogamāyā. And when you are gradually forgetting Kṛṣṇa, that is the action of mahāmāyā. Māyā is acting upon you. The one is dragging you, and one is pushing opposite way. Yogamāyā.

So just like the example that you are always under the laws of government. You cannot deny. If you say: "I don't agree to abide by the laws of government," that is not possible. But when you are a criminal, you are under the police laws, and when you are gentleman, you are under the civil laws. The laws are there. In any situation, you have to obey the laws of government. If you remain as a civilized citizen, then you are always protected by the civil law. But as soon as you are against the state, the criminal law will act upon you.

So the criminal activities of law is mahāmāyā, threefold miseries, always. Always putting in some sort of misery. And the civil department of Kṛṣṇa, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. You simply go on increasing the, I mean to say, depth of the ocean of joy. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam. That is the difference, yogamāyā and mahāmāyā. Yogamāyā is . . . yogamāyā, the original yogamāyā, is Kṛṣṇa's internal potency. That is Rādhārāṇī. And mahāmāyā is external potency, Durgā.

This Durgā is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā:

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā
(Bs. 5.44)

Durgā is the superintending goddess of this whole material world. Everything is going on under his . . . under her control. Prakṛti, prakṛti is energy. Energy is accepted as feminine. Just like these materialistic persons, they are also working under some energy. What is that energy? The sex life. That's all. They're troubling so much, "Oh, at night I'll have sex life." That's all. That is the energy. Yan maithunAdi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their life is based on the sex. That's all. Everyone is working so hard, culminating in sex. That's all. This is material life.

So energy, material energy means sex. So that is energy. If a person who is working in the factory, if you stop sex, oh, he cannot work. And when he's unable to enjoy sex life, then he takes intoxication. This is material life. So energy must be there. Here in the material world the energy is sex, and in the spiritual world the energy is love.

Here the love is misrepresented in sex. That is not love; that is lust. Love is only possible with Kṛṣṇa, nowhere else. Nowhere else love is possible. That is misrepresentation of love. That is lust. So love and lust. Love is yogamāyā, and lust is mahāmāyā. That's all.

(long pause) Is that all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: So, any other question?

Jāhnavā: Christ consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the words are so similar. Please combine the words, explain how the words came to us.

Prabhupāda: That I've explained many times: a pocket dictionary and international dictionary. You cannot say that pocket dictionary is no dictionary, but it is meant for a certain class of student. And international dictionary is meant for a certain class of student. They are all student. Was Christ . . . what was spoken by Christ, that is also God consciousness, but that was meant for a certain class of men. And what class of men they were?

They're not even perfectly civilized. Because Christ was explaining God consciousness, that was his fault, and they crucified him. What class of men they were? Judge. His only fault was that he was explaining God, and they crucified him. The reward was crucification. So what kind of class of men they were? The status of that society, just try to understand.

Therefore what spoke . . . what was spoken by Lord Jesus Christ, for them, that was sufficient. But when Bhagavad-gītā is spoken to a person like Arjuna, that is different thing. So we have to speak according to the time, according to the circumstances, according to the audience. Don't you see that here only a few persons are attending? Why? They cannot understand this Kṛṣṇa science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not meant for all classes of men. It is highest standard of God consciousness. Love. Love of God.

So there is also teachings of love of God, undoubtedly. That is the difference. The same thing. Always try to understand: The small pocket dictionary for students while in the primary stage, and international dictionary for higher students, postgraduate students—the both of them are dictionaries. But it is meant for somebody, it is meant for somebody. And the test is phalena paricīyate.

Phalena paricīyate, you have to understand. Suppose you are traveling in a forest. So many trees are there. But you cannot understand what is this tree, what is that. But as soon as you see the flower, "Oh, here is apple. Oh, this is apple tree." Just like the other day you were telling me you never saw apple tree? Yes. Now, as soon as you saw the apple, you understood, "This is apple tree. Oh!"

The test of any scripture is how one is developing love of God. Phalena paricīyate. If you find that following some religious principles you are developing your love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn't matter whether it is Bible or Koran or Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. We have to see what is the fruit. If the fruit is that people are developing love of Godhead, then it is perfect. Don't try to understand whether this is good, this is good, this is bad, this is . . . no.

Try to understand by the result. Just like the same way: if you see the fruit, then it is first class. So it doesn't matter whether it is Bible or Gītā. If you can develop love of Godhead by reading Bible, it is first class, and if you can develop love of Godhead by Bhagavad-gītā, it is first class. And if you do not, then either it is Bible or the Koran or Bhagavad-gītā, it has no effect for you.

So it is up to you. Not by comparison, but by your own activities. If you actually follow the instruction given by Lord Jesus Christ, you will also develop love of Godhead. There is no doubt. Similarly, if you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you will also develop. So it is up to you. You try to follow. If you do not follow, simply try to make a comparative study, "This is good" or "This is bad," "This is bad" or "This is good," that is called śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8)—simply laboring.

Why comparative study? Just see how much you are developing love of Godhead, that's all. Phalena paricīyate. "Whether it is apple is there, that's all right—never mind what is this tree. I'm concerned with the apple."


Upendra: Prabhupāda, sometimes there may be differences between what is love of Godhead between Christian Muslim, Muslim and Buddhist, Buddhist, Hindu. They may quarrel at what is love of Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Quarrel, they, those who are not in love of Godhead, they must quarrel. That is the . . . because they are cats and dogs. You cannot expect any peaceful condition between cats and dogs. They will fight. So whatever they may be, so long they are fighting, that means they are not on the perfectional stage. Where is the fighting? If you love God, then you love everyone. That is the sign. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). After attaining the stage of equality, then you can enter into the realm of loving God. Before that, you have to pass.

Just like before entering law college you have to become graduate, similarly, before entering the realm of devotional service you have to realize that all living entities are on the same platform. That is realization. You cannot make any distinction that, "This is lower," "This is higher." No. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). When a person is fully learned, he does not make any distinction that, "He is human being, he is cow, he is dog, he is . . ." He sees that he is spirit soul covered in different dress. That's all. That is his vision, universal equality vision.

You cannot say that dog has no life, the cow has no life. How can you say that there is no life? That is lack of your knowledge. What is the symptom of life? You will find the symptom of life is there in human being, in ant also. How you can say that small creatures, lower animals, have no life? That is lack of your knowledge. Even trees, plants, they have got life.

So perfect knowledge required. So love of Godhead on the basis of perfect knowledge is real love of God. Otherwise it is fanaticism. So the fanatics, they may fight. That is not love of Godhead.

(pause) Of course, it is very difficult to come to that stage, but one should try. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are all student. We are trying. But there are degrees also. Just like in a educational institution there is tenth class, eighth class, fifth class, sixth class. And with the yoga, it is just like a staircase or a lift.

So there are different stages of perfection. The highest perfection is who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate (BG 6.47). The highest perfectional is Kṛṣṇa, thinking always Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī. That is the highest perfectional stage. She has no other business: simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Viṣṇujana: While we are chanting our rounds, or while we are chanting out loud in the kīrtana, is it all right to be engaging our mind in thinking?

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Viṣṇujana: Feels . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This is practical way? (laughter) If you are not minding, the chanting will force you to mind upon Him. You see? Kṛṣṇa sound will by force. Chanting is so nice. And this is the practical yoga in this age. You cannot meditate. Your mind is so disturbed, you cannot concentrate your mind.

Therefore chant, and by the sound vibration, it will forcibly enter it into your mind. Even if you don't want Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will enter within your mind. By force. (laughter) This is the easiest process. You don't require to endeavor. Kṛṣṇa is coming. (laughter) It is very nice process. This is recommended, therefore, for this age.

And others also will be benefited. You chant loudly. Others who are not accustomed, they will also. At least . . . just like on the street, in the park, they say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" How they have learned? By hearing this chanting. That's all. Sometimes the children, as soon as they see us, they say: "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa!" In Montreal the children, when I was walking on the street, all the children, the shopkeepers, the storekeepers, they will say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" And that's all.

So we have forced Hare Kṛṣṇa within the mind. If you practice yoga, meditate, it may be beneficial for you, but this is beneficial for many others. Suppose something very good, you are enjoying yourself, some sweetballs—that is one stage. But if you distribute sweetballs, that is another stage.

So by chanting on the road, on the street, you are distributing sweetballs. (laughter) You are not miser, that you are eating yourself. You are so liberal that you are distributing to others.

Now chant, distribute. (laughter)

(kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) (devotees offer obeisances)

When you go to a medical man, do you ask him whether he is Christian or Hindu? I am asking you. Suppose you go to a medical man, do you ask him that, "Are you Christian or Muslim or Hindu?" Do you ask him?

Devotee: Me?

Prabhupāda: No, I am asking this girl. Why? Because your business is to cure your disease. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or Muhammadan. It doesn't matter. Similarly, you have to seek love of God wherever it is available, you have to take it. That should be the point of view. It doesn't matter where it is available. One should be hankering after love of Godhead, love of God.

Gold . . . somebody is after purchasing gold, it doesn't matter where it is available. Similarly, it doesn't matter whether you develop love of Godhead from this scripture or that scripture. Your aim should be whether you are developing love of Godhead or developing love of non-Godhead. That should be the test.

Lady guest: Divine Master, I came to pay my respects, and I'm most distressed that I need to leave, but there are a series of people who are waiting for me, for a spiritual meeting also.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Lady guest: So permit me to bow to you.

Prabhupāda: Please come again.

Lady guest: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Take some prasādam.

Lady guest: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: So you did not question anything. If you have got any doubts . . .

Lady guest: I beg your pardon?

Devotee: Questions and doubts?

Lady guest: Do I have any doubts? Divine Master, you have made me able to read my heart. I have no pretensions to speak one way or another. There is no doubt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She says there is no doubt.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (laughter) (end)