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771103 - Conversation E - Vrndavana

From Vanisource

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771103R5-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1977 - 44:23 Minutes

(Conversation with Gaura-Govinda and Giriraja)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) He has arrived, Śrila Prabhupāda, Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja.

Śrila Prabhupāda: (Bengali) . . . (indistinct) . . . Hmm.

Gaura-Govinda: It's okay. Bhāgavata has arrived. Bhāgavata has arrived, so I came here to have darśana.

Śrila Prabhupāda: (Bengali) From Jagannātha Purī dhāma? Tell me.

Gaura-Govinda: Yes. We have been to Jagannātha Purī, and some jagannātha-prasāda we have brought for you. Will you take some?

Śrila Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Regarding the work. (English) What work he gives? (Bengali) What work is going on?

Gaura-Govinda: Now we'll begin construction. Our architect-engineer, Saṁjāta, was there. He was planning, and he was making plans, but unfortunately he passed away the last 23rd. So . . .

Śrila Prabhupāda: What happened?

Gaura-Govinda: He suffered from fever. He had some fever, high fever. So he fell unconscious. The doctor came and gave some medicine. The fever was checked, but he gave some high-power medicines that affected his brain, and so he couldn't speak. He just collapsed and stayed still. We came to the hospital that night. Doctor tried his best. He gave saline and oxygen. He stayed the whole night, but at the daybreak he passed away, when the morning came, just on the morning, 23rd morning. It was ekādaśī day. That day he passed away. And on the day Bhāgavata reached. The very moment Bhāgavata reached there, he passed away.

Śrila Prabhupāda: These doctors give treatment, not reliable. They make experiment.

Gaura-Govinda: Yes.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) He has brought Lord Jagannātha's prasāda. Should I bring some?

Śrila Prabhupāda: No . . . some . . . Give me some taste. I lost taste.

Bhakti-caru: Should I give you some rock-sugar drink?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhakti-caru: Give rock-sugar drink?


Bhakti-caru: Should I give you some more water?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gaura-Govinda: With me it is Bhaktivikāśa Mahāyogī Mahārāja at Bhadrak who has donated that maṭha at Bhadrak. We have started new center? He has come with me to see you.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is he?

Gaura-Govinda: Here.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja, daṇḍavat. (Bengali) Do you understand Bengali?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: (Bengali) Yes, I do.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Are you Bengali?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: Yes.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Are you Prabhupāda's disciple?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: No, I am the disciple of Oṁ Viṣṇupada Bhaktisvarūpa Parvat Mahārāja.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Oh, Parvat Mahārāja, my God-brother. Hmm. That Prafulla?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: I beg your pardon?

Śrila Prabhupāda: That Prafulla, who is there . . .

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: No. He's not there. He has left the disciplic line and gone away.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Who?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: The person called Prafulla, who was there.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Oh, yes?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: He's gone outside the disciplic line.

Śrila Prabhupāda: He's in Māyāpura . . .

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: He has started a center in Māyāpura but . . . he does not keep in touch or meet anyone. He's become different. Earlier my name was Yudhiṣṭhira brahmacārī.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Yes?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: I was there at Hāzra Road . . . number eight Hāzra Road . . . when Kīrtanananda prabhu and old brahmacārīs were there at that time with Mahārāja . . . (indistinct)

Śrila Prabhupāda: Tīrtha Mahārāja hadn't taken sannyāsa at that time?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: I beg your pardon?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Tīrtha Mahārāja hadn't taken sannyāsa at that time?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: No, he took sannyāsa later, much later.

Śrila Prabhupāda: How long has it been since Parvat Mahārāja left his body?

Bhakti-caru: (repeating) How long has it been since Parvat Mahārāja left his body?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: . . . fourteen years . . . fourteen years or thirteen years.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm. He had paralysis . . .

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: Yes, that's right.

Śrila Prabhupāda: How long did he suffer?

Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja: . . . up to nearly four years.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm. (long pause) What is the position of Bhadrak?

Gaura-Govinda: Bhadrak, there are three devotees now—Ātma-tattva, Kṛṣṇadāsa and Rohiṇī-nandana—and they were preaching and making some members. Bhadrak is a good place for preaching. And I also come there. Just on the 1st November, there was a festival that on that day Caitanya Mahāprabhu arrived there when He was going from Jagannātha Purī to Vṛndāvana. They observe that festival. So they have invited us to speak in that meeting on that day. Bhāgavata and I came. There was a great festival, and we do nagara-saṅkīrtana in the evening. In the meeting Bhāgavata spoke and then I spoke. This was very nice.

Śrila Prabhupāda: People are coming?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes, people are coming. People are coming. It is nice. In Bhadrak they have eight acres of land there. It's cultivated land. If we can manage ourselves, then that will be nice. Now this Mahārāja has given it to other agents. They'll take half and give the half. Nobody was there to look after it. So if we look after it now personally, and take it up ourselves, then it will be managed nicely. And there are two cows also, it has got.

Śrila Prabhupāda: The arrangement is nice.

Gaura-Govinda: It requires a little modification. We made some constructions there for brahmacārīs. There is one Deity room, that is pakka house, and one more . . . (break) (whispering) . . . Anantadeva and Dr. Śyāmasundara.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I've been writing them.

Gaura-Govinda: Yes, they have written letters to Prabhupāda. (whispering)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can talk out loud. You can talk now. You said Anantadeva and Śyāmasundara dāsa Brahmacārī, they were dealing with the pāṇḍās.

Gaura-Govinda: Pāṇḍās. So recently Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī wrote me a letter to come to make Bhāgavata if I went there. He made proposal that we start nirjok sevā(?) there at the Jagannātha temple, Anantadeva's proposal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nirjok sevā? What is that?

Gaura-Govinda: Nirjok sevā means we'll purchase a fireplace, chimney, and also a little cooking. And we'll give him rice, ḍāl, sabjī, cooking prasādam, and that would be offered to Jagannātha, Lord Jagannātha. Then they would use that prasādam. They would distribute it or . . . That is nirjok sevā. That maṭha has appealed like that, "Do this thing." Then they will recognize us, and in that way we will get permission to enter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who will get permission?

Gaura-Govinda: There is one committee there. It is pāṇḍā's committee and the temple management committee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But who will be allowed to enter?

Gaura-Govinda: That will be passed in that committee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but they will allow Western people to enter Jagannātha temple?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes, yes. They have talked with that Anantadeva and Śyāmasundara, but they want money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want nirjok sevā or they also want money?

Gaura-Govinda: By giving us permission, nirjok sevā means indirectly they want money. They'll take money, then they'll give us permission to do nirjok sevā and also, that way, entrance into the Jagannātha temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. So how much money?

Gaura-Govinda: I talked with that Śyāmasundara and Anantadeva. He said thirty-six groups are there, nirjoks, pāṇḍā groups. And administrator is there. They want something, and all groups want something. (whispering) One lakh of rupee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lakh of rupees to see Jagannātha. But we can see Jagannātha in any temple in the world. Why do we have to pay one lakh of rupees? Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was saying that we don't have to pay one lakh of rupees to see Lord Jagannātha in Los Angeles.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Let them pray to Jagannātha for my cure immediately, or as soon as possible, I shall do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they pray to Lord Jagannātha for your cure . . .

Bhavānanda: Immediately or as soon as possible, then he'll . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. First they should do the praying.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Let me be in health. Then I'll do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you understand? Prabhupāda says that the answer is that first of all they should pray to Kṛṣṇa for Prabhupāda's cure, pray to Jagannātha for Prabhupāda's cure immediately, for his health. And then, when he is physically fit, then he will do the needful. But first of all, by their prayers to Jagannātha, they should make him physically fit. Is that right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who did you have talk with? Anantadeva or Śyāmasundara?

Gaura-Govinda: Anantadeva.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Who is Anantadeva?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Who is Anantadeva?"

Gaura-Govinda: Anantadeva . . . They have written letters to you, from that Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī and Anantadeva.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Anantadeva is connected with which group?

Gaura-Govinda: He is a disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta or Bhaktisiddhānta's disciple's disciple?

Gaura-Govinda: No, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Directly.

Gaura-Govinda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja says he is your Godbrother, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's thirty-six pāṇḍās?

Gaura-Govinda: Thirty-six groups nirjoks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nirjoka?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes. (break)

Śrila Prabhupāda: . . . moment I am sick. When I am well enough, I shall do something. Hmm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's a very proper answer. So in order for you to be able to do something, they should pray to Jagannātha. (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda? Girirāja is here.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Oh. Girirāja?

Girirāja: Yes.

Śrila Prabhupāda: How is your health?

Girirāja: Oh, I'm better. Improved.

Śrila Prabhupāda: What is the news of Nepal?

Girirāja: Oh, well, they have a very nice program there. They have a nice house with many rooms, and the Nepalese people . . .

Śrila Prabhupāda: How many rooms?

Girirāja: About nine big rooms. And they do street saṅkīrtana every day in the main street, and they distribute literature. And the Society is not yet registered there, but I went with Prabhaviṣṇu to a lawyer, and we've set up the formalities for getting registered, but the government is presently reviewing the registration law, so it might take a few weeks before they accept our case.

Śrila Prabhupāda: On the whole, it is favorable. Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the whole, it is favorable?

Girirāja: Oh, yes. There is a tremendous scope.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm!

Girirāja: And the royal family is very powerful. They run the whole country, and, of course, they're Hindus. So I also went with Prabhaviṣṇu to meet one relation of the Queen Mother, and this lady was very enthusiastic about our activities. So I discussed with Prabhaviṣṇu the strategy how to approach the royal family, and . . . It's a Hindu state. They don't claim to be secular, like in India, so . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hopeful.

Girirāja: Yes, it is hopeful. Then he has one local boy who has joined, Nepali, and he's a very nice boy. I mean, there's so much field for preaching. There's the royal family, then there's membership for the business community, and then there's saṅkīrtana and book distribution for the general people, and then also there are many hippies there. So we could recruit devotees from amongst them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still our best customers, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still very good customers. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Girirāja: That's because Prabhupāda is patita-pāvana. And the temple atmosphere is nice. It's mainly saṅkīrtana. There are no women there, so very good atmosphere. They have a nice program. They have a Love Feast program, and many people are coming. I think they can have two or three hundred people coming very soon. And the people are very simple and good natured. Everywhere we went, people would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They recognized the devotees?

Girirāja: Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Śrila Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'd like to go sometime?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We'll include that on our world parikramā.

Girirāja: Actually, the relation of the Queen's mother whom we met, she was also asking about people coming who could give good lectures and enthuse everyone. So I said that you yourself would probably like to come when you're feeling better. So she was really wild about that idea. (laughter) I'm sure that they would give you a real royal welcome.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good field it sounds like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Trivikrama: What about the language? Is there problem with language?

Girirāja: No. The educated people speak English. In all the schools they teach English, so all the youngsters speak English in Kathmandu. And then most people in Kathmandu, even if they don't speak English, they speak Hindi. And there are just a few who only speak Nepali. But Prabhaviṣṇu has arranged for The Perfection of Yoga to be translated into Nepali. So he's just . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He sounds like he's doing very good, Prabhaviṣṇu.

Girirāja: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good man.

Girirāja: He's very good. So he's eager to get that in print. Then they'll be able to distribute literature to everyone without exception.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you remember when Prabhaviṣṇu was here you told him to go with "the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother"? He remembers those words.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother."

Śrila Prabhupāda: This is the word of a great poet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja's parents took him there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they made another offer to him.

Śrila Prabhupāda: What is that? (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa laughs)

Girirāja: Well, no, they . . . My father has increased the fortune, so he was trying to tempt me again, but I wasn't interested. But I think in the end he may give in to Kṛṣṇa, because we were in . . . We were helping Prabhaviṣṇu by giving him dollars, and he would give us rupees. So we were in a shop, and my mother was making a check, which we were going to give . . . which she was giving to me to give to Prabhaviṣṇu. So the owner of the shop thought that the check was for him, and he started making some objections. So my father said, "No. In our system the husband gives to the wife, and the wife gives to the son, and the son gives to Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) So everyone laughed.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Just try to manage. (pause)

Girirāja: I had a very nice dream last night in which Your Divine Grace appeared. And you were walking around the premises of the Vṛndāvana temple, and there were some doll exhibits. So you were saying that they should improve the quality of the exhibits, because this is their sādhana. So I felt that you were, actually, you were telling me that I should improve the quality of my service and that this was my sādhana, but to be, you know, polite, instead of saying it directly, you were pointing out to their service. And then you started to speak very directly and very boldly, and you were saying . . . You quoted the verse,

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
(CC Madhya 7.128)

And you were saying, "This is my order, so you do it for me." And I mean, I felt that you were saying that since it was your order and we were doing it for you, even though it's very difficult, but it would be successful.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Anyway, there is a beginning in Nepal. Try to implement. (pause; Prabhupāda being massaged)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When you took prasādam today did you find a little taste? Not yet. Did you have any avocado?

Śrila Prabhupāda: That was little tasteful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. You've been thinking about having that for a long time. You talked about it on and off before. Avocado is said to be very good, nutritious.

Śrila Prabhupāda: What is the rent of the house?

Girirāja: The rent? It's about twelve hundred rupees, but that's less than one thousand Indian rupees, and it's right on the way to the Paśu-pati-nātha temple, which is the biggest temple in Nepal.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm. Very famous temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've heard of it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm. People go there to see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is it on the way? Directly on the way?

Girirāja: Well, there's a crossroads which all the traffic passes to go to that temple, and our temple is about just a few hundred yards from that crossroads.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We could put a sign on the road. We have a whole building?

Girirāja: Yes. It's a bungalow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. In a compound?

Girirāja: Yes. In the compound they're growing flowers and vegetables.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. How many acres?

Girirāja: Well, it's about half an acre, but whatever land they have, they're using.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a lease?

Girirāja: I don't know if they have a lease, but the owner of the house is a Vaiṣṇava, and he's very . . . Actually, his house is next door, and his house is called Viṣṇu-nivāsa.

Śrila Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: And when he built the second house, he wanted it to be used as a temple, and he called it Bhagavān-nivāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he's very pleased with the use of the house.

Girirāja: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many members they've made there?

Girirāja: Well, he's only made two members. I think he's going to get into it a little more. He doesn't have to be registered to make members . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tax exempt?

Girirāja: . . . because the two members he made . . . Tax exemption has to be . . . Each case is considered individually. There's no system. But the lawyer and other people I spoke to felt that since it was a Hindu state, and since they wanted to encourage such activities, that they would give us tax exemption. There's even a community of Marwari businessmen. So Prabhaviṣṇu had made one or two members by giving receipts from Calcutta, since we're not registered. So I suggested that he should concentrate on the Marwaris for the time being, and he can give receipts from Calcutta, and that would be good practice, because they are the most willing to become members. And then, by the time he got registered, he could start approaching the Nepali businessmen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will the Calcutta receipt help them?

Girirāja: Well, I don't think . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . they care much.

Girirāja: No. Just to give them something official. He has seven boys there now, and a few of them . . .

Śrila Prabhupāda: They are taking their prasādam and living there?

Girirāja: Yes. They have nice meal in the morning and evening, and then in the day the main activity is they have the chanting party, and around the chanting party they distribute literature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very nice beginning, all-auspicious.

Trivikrama: Is the weather very cold?

Girirāja: It's not very cold. The climate is very healthful. In fact, two devotees were there who were in India for some time, and they felt a little weary, and they both said that they felt that their health and strength had increased.

Bhakti-caru: It's a beautiful city also.

Girirāja: Yes. It's very peaceful and clean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like a good place to take you sometime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Girirāja: The air is very, very pure. They hardly have any industry there, and very few motorcars. It's very unspoiled. So the air is clean and the people are also nice. Until a few years ago, there was no system of compulsory education, so the new ideas, Western ideas, have not come very much there.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) Śrīla Prabhupāda . . . I've made that cottage-cheese preparation. Should I bring it?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like a little soft chanting?

Śrila Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you haven't passed urine in some time. Would you like to try?

Śrila Prabhupāda: There is no . . .

Bhavānanda: I'm sorry?

Śrila Prabhupāda: There is no . . .

Bhavānanda: No need. (end).