771102 - Conversation H - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



771102R8-VRNDAVAN - November 02, 1977 - 40:42 Minutes


(Kaviraja Visit)



Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What you are going to say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are we going to do?

Bhakti-caru: Going to say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What am I going to say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the real factor is Your Divine Grace's desire. I mean, it seems like... You know, our, as your disciples, our duty is to help you fulfill your desire. It seems like your desire is to die in Vṛndāvana. But it's very hard for us to execute that service. It's very hard—because we love you—to assist you in dying. It's a paradox. You want to die in Vṛndāvana, and we want you to live, and yet we have to do whatever you want. I mean, the kavirāja, he is giving some... He feels a little confident. Probably from medical point of view, there's no doubt, he has far superior knowledge than any of us.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara has not yet...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Viśvambhara has not come yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean for the past few days you've been saying that you want to live. Now suddenly you say that you want to die. Maybe that's simply to discourage us from... Because you feel too weak now. There's so many conflicting...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi to kavirāja; mentions parikramā)

Kavirāja: (Hindi, talks about blood tests and 45% haemoglobin)

(whispering by Svarūpa Dāmodara as he tries to explain what kavirāja is saying)

Bhakti-caru: (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) Do you understand? He's saying that "As a physician, in this condition, I wouldn't advise you to go. But if you desire to go there, then I have enough confidence on my medicine, and since you have the will, so I can assure you that I can take you over there safely. Now it's up to you whether you want to go or whether you want to stay." He's saying that if you stay here for ten more days, then you'll become strong enough and you can travel. And he's willing to come back again after about a week, and then he'll stay here for a day or two and then take him.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think that's a good idea. Don't you, Mahārāja?

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that... Śrīla Prabhupāda wants to stay here, but we want him to take...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to stay here, that's a fact.

Kavirāja: (Hindi, talking with Bhakti-caru and Prabhupāda about medicine, glucose, and drinking water)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that?

Bhakti-caru: Water intake, liquid.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much urine has he passed since six o'clock this morning? Six o'clock this morning.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda.

Brahmānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda?

Bhakti-caru: Two hundred and twenty. (translates in Hindi to kavirāja)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole day?

Bhakti-caru: No, since six.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the whole day?

Bhakti-caru: The whole day it's 320.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru about amounts)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Brahmānanda: Just translating what the doctor is saying.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru)

Brahmānanda: If there's any risk, Prabhupāda, in traveling, then you shouldn't take that risk. The doctor will come back here next week, and then we can see.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru)

Prabhupāda: In the morning the symptom was that.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying, from the treatment point of view, it's best if Śrīla Prabhupāda stays here for ten more days here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tell him that the only reason we had any reservation about that was because if some side effect develops, then he is not here to help, and we have to take the help of this other person, who we do not trust.

Bhakti-caru: (explains in Hindi to kavirāja)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying that now his medicine started working. So he'll give one day's medicine, and that he's confident that that medicine will work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One day's?

Bhakti-caru: Seven days. And apart from that, he's saying that that boy, he has got confidence in him that whatever instruction he gives, he will follow. He is going to follow that, not like other physicians. He wouldn't try to administer his own medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but supposing there's a symptom which he has not predicted at this time?

Bhakti-caru: (explaining in Hindi)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He says that nothing will happen. He's saying that the main thing... He found out the main defect in the body.

Kavirāja: (Hindi about telephoning)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying that if anything is wrong, then we can ring him up and he'll come immediately.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Adri-dhāraṇa: Next time, when he comes, make arrangement to come here for a long time.

Bhakti-caru: Say, at least about a week, so that he can stay here for about a week. This time he came absolutely unprepared, and...

Prabhupāda: Turn me this way.

Bhakti-caru: (indistinct) the pillow.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru about barley intake)

Bhakti-caru: Mahārāja, do you have the urine report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you go in my file under "M"? There's a folder, an envelope. Bring that envelope.

Kavirāja: (Hindi about urine report)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that...

Adri-dhāraṇa: ...for about ten days, Prabhupāda should not speak to anybody.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not speak to anybody. Well that's all right with me, but whether Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We won't allow him to..., guests.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this parikramā? Prabhupāda wants...

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda feels that that must go on.

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi explaining to kavirāja)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As a patient he doesn't...

Kavirāja: (Hindi about parikramā)

Adri-dhāraṇa: If he insists on going on parikramā, he can give a special medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's pretty insistent.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru and Svarūpa Dāmodara)

(indistinct discussion in background)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So is this all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we'll wait here for another week to ten days, and Shastrijī will give us medicine. The kavirāja will give us medicine, and you can take it for another week or so. After a week's time he'll come back, and then, after a few days, he'll take you to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: At least at present this decision will be good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This decision is good. He says that you should not do so much talking, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I'll not talk.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For about ten days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've never seen this possible, though. (laughter) You always speak of Kṛṣṇa. That is your life and soul—śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. He says if you insist on going on parikramā, then he will give you a little medicine which will help you.

Prabhupāda: Parikramā must be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said not many rounds.

Bhakti-caru: Once is not done. (Hindi with kavirāja about parikramā)

Prabhupāda: Three.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three times.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four times? That's all right. Three times around, into the temple, and one more time. That will be nice. Four times. Is that all right? Will that be all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: We have given four times.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're doing a lot more than four now. We do about ten. Smara-hari knows, because he carries you. (laughs)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then we'll make this program, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you should keep making the effort, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to get better. Anyway, Kṛṣṇa may desire for you to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. At least it is our duty to pray like that.

Kavirāja: (Hindi) Telephone... (Hindi) ...any time. Telegram, telephone... (Hindi with Bhakti-caru) (kavirāja leaves)

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: So... In Bengali there is such thing, "When you hesitate, don't do it."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we also sometimes feel that when there's a hesitation, it seems like the Supersoul is giving indication.

Prabhupāda: But he has not also come? Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatjī?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has not come yet.

Prabhupāda: So when he will come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I am also beginning to wonder. He was supposed to come by at least four or five o'clock. I'm sure he'll have a good reason, but until he comes I cannot speculate on why he's late.

Prabhupāda: Not only late. The other person, whether they will come at night?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that's probably why he is late, because they would only come at night. That's my... Last time this was also done at about this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. These men work all day in the court, and they can't come until the evening.

Prabhupāda: And suppose he does not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if he does not come, then I'll have to find out why he didn't come.

Prabhupāda: And then you will have to postpone? They'll have to postpone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if they don't come, then certainly we'll have to postpone this signing, because they won't be here. Are you feeling up to signing anything tonight? I don't think so. You feel a little too much... You can do? Let us see if they come. I think they're going to come. Of course, it is getting pretty late. Anyway, we'll see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Quarter to nine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, you're not at any loss. You're laying here. Just I think now I'll turn off the light. Do you like some little kīrtana? Singing? You haven't been having kīrtana lately in your room very much, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Anyway, if you like, we'll just keep it quiet here and turn off the light. Would you prefer that?

Prabhupāda: Light you can keep.

(indistinct whispered discussion)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have to give the key to the door. I keep the door locked when I'm not in the room.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (whispering) I made two members today for the Institute.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you stay longer on this planet, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that will make this Movement stronger. That is the real reason for living longer. 'Cause you are a pure devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, you have no personal desire. This is Kṛṣṇa's Movement. If you stay longer, then this Movement will become stronger and stronger. Simply by your presence the devotees become inspired, and they work much better. We can understand that there's nothing to lament if you were to depart, because you're always going to be with Kṛṣṇa. But we would have to lament from our own point of view that we would lose you, at least in the way that we have you now. And the whole world would lament because this Movement might not be as strong if you were not present.

Prabhupāda: Then make this arrangement, one week or ten days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing that. We have already agreed to that. Actually I could see from the very beginning that that's what we were going to do, but sometimes I feel it is my duty to give good arguments for some opposite opinion just to see both sides. Ultimately we are prepared to be with you wherever you want to be. To us that is home. That is our great pleasure, to be with you. So we're making that arrangement, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that without finishing this business we shall go?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without finishing the business of these..., this legal business?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. This legal business is not what would keep us here.

Prabhupāda: Then how it will... How it will be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, it can be executed in Māyāpur as well.

Prabhupāda: How?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Das, our friend from Calcutta, can come. It's pretty much now... It's already drafted, and... It would just have to be redrafted again on new stamp paper, or the words would have to be changed. It says... It would have to be retyped on stamp paper from Bengal side. The basic writing is...

Prabhupāda: That means unfinished despite unfinished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Hmm? It is past nine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So maybe this is the reason we're not going.

Prabhupāda: No. Even if we decide to go, that means despite unfinishing...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I really don't feel that this would be enough of a reason to stay here. The whole consideration of whatever we do is your health. That is the major consideration. Our going was on account of your health; our staying now is on account of your health. These other things may be done or not. That doesn't matter. I work all day doing all of your other businesses only because I know that your health is well looked after. Otherwise, if I thought it wasn't, I would drop whatever else I'm doing and simply do this, take care of you here. There's so many qualified men doing that, so I don't... I'm engaging myself in your other businesses. Otherwise, the main thing is that first of all you should be..., we should try to help you to get better. And if I say, "If you want to take rest," you take rest and don't be worried that this business may not get done tonight. That is not the issue at all.

Prabhupāda: But how is that they did not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very strange. I must admit I'm very surprised, very, very surprised. I think the only possible answer to it can be that the work itself was difficult work, plus there must have been some other works that either the lawyer had to do or the notary had to do, and so it just could not... I mean after all, this was very, very quickly done. When we decided that we were going to go, it was only on Monday. That means yesterday morning that we decided that we were going to leave. So I mean from yesterday morning until tonight is practically not even... It's hardly enough time to do the legal work that we wanted to do. It was a real strain. Actually, it would have been very surprising if we do get it done by tonight. That would be very surprising.

Prabhupāda: I don't think. It is past nine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't think they'll come now. No, I also don't think. I mean it's not good etiquette to come at this hour for business. It's nearly nine-thirty, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean I don't think that... If you'll permit me to request them, even if they do come now, that we do it on another day, then I would prefer to do that. Oh, I hear Bhagatjī. (goes and returns) So they're all here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So we can go to Māyāpur now. (laughs) So I better... First I'll have to go through all of the documents and see that they're in order. Then I'll bring them in here and we'll finish this business.

Prabhupāda: Then let us go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) You want to go to Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: As you are saying, I'll go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I mean you guide us. As you say, we will do. There's no... The doctor advises, "Better to remain." His medical opinion is that you should wait here for another ten days.

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said the only reason... He said, "However, if you really feel that you want to go," he says, "I guarantee you that there will be no risk." That he promises. If you want to go, there will not be risk. But from a medical point of view he says, "I advise that you get stronger before making the trip, because it will be easier."

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's our program. We're going to wait here ten days. After seven days, doctor is coming back. Kavirāja is coming back. He'll also by that time have arranged so that when he comes he can stay even up to a week if necessary.

Prabhupāda: And I'll get some strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's his point, yes. He feels confident that you'll get strength. Is that all right?