771102 - Conversation B - Vrndavana
Shri Narayan: Kaisa apka sans, kaisa abhi lagta hai? Thoda improvement ho raha hai na? (How is your breathe, how do you feel now? Is there a little improvement?)
Prabhupāda: Kuch thoda ho raha hai. (Some improvement.)
Shri Narayan: Kal ko hi hume maloom hua ki aap prasthan kar rahe hain wahan delhi aur phir mayapur. Kal tha na program raat ka phir subah maloom hua ki nahi aap idhar rahenge. Ji, kyunki strain to padega na jaane me. To abhi apko strain, risk bhi hai. Theek hi hua mere khyal se. Aap ruk gaye, accha hai. Yahan mausam accha hai na aajkal. (Yesterday I came to know that you are traveling to Delhi and then to Mayapur. Your program was yesterday night, is it not? Again this morning I came to know that you will stay here. Yes, because it will be very strenuous to travel. You will be strained and there is also a risk. It is alright that you stayed back, it is good. The weather is good here nowadays, is it not?)
Prabhupada: Han, wo gadi bhi tooti hai. (Yes, the vehicle is not in good condition.)
Shri Narayan: Gadi bhi theek nahi hai. (The vehicle is also not proper.)
Prabhupada: What happened to the car?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Er, do you know the history?
Bhakti-caru: Yes. First thing they had a flat tire. Then they ran out of gas, and then there was no petrol station. Then they lost the track. They went to some . . .
Prabhupāda: So he missed the plane.
Shri Narayan: Missed the place. Coming from Delhi?
Bhakti-caru: Yes. They were supposed to come here at two o'clock.
Prabhupāda: I have got my car, but they arranged for a Mercedes car.
Shri Narayan: Mercedes car, bigger car, yes. Oh, I see. So that means God didn't want you to leave. Yahan to mausam accha hai. Waise aajkal. Vrindavan ka mausam accha hai aur ishwar kare aapko fayda ho jane lage. Kyunki humne apka sandesh bhi bataya wahan padhke sameelan me sab ko ki Swami Prabhupadji Maharaj padhar nahi sake, swasth itna theek nahi hai. Lekin aap se jo baat hui wo humne sabko bataya. Gita culture aur Indian culture ko khoob vyapak banaya jaye sare duniya me aur paropkar ka jo apka kaha na ki paropkar ki bhavana khoob vyapak honi chahiye. (Nowadays the weather here is very nice. Vrindavan weather is very good and by God's mercy, it should benefit you. Because I conveyed your message, read it out in the conference to everyone present that, "Swami Prabhupāda Mahārāja could not come due to his ill health." Whatever I discussed with you I converted to everyone. The Gītā culture and Indian culture should be propagated throughout the world. The quality of charity, which you had mentioned, that charity must be inculcated to a great extent.)
Prabhupāda: This is Indian culture.
Shri Narayan: Indian culture, Gītā culture. Aapne Gita culture bhi kaha tha, ek hi baat hai, hai ki nahi. gita culture aur Indian culture dono apne kaha ki praopkar uska mool mantra hai. (You had also mentioned the Gītā culture. It is one and the same, is it not. The Gītā culture and Indian culture, both you mentioned, that charity is the basic tenet.)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Bhagvan khud keh rahe hain. (God Himself is saying,) that Whenever there are discrepancies in the human society—tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham—at that time He appears. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is the program. And when He comes, the time is fixed. So unless one thoroughly studies, they cannot accept. Actually, Kṛṣṇa . . . imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). This system, Bhagavad-gītā, it is yoga, bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga is the topmost.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
There are many yogas. The aim is how to come to the topmost yoga. That is bhakti-yoga. And Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, bhakto 'si me. What is that verse? Eh? Evaṁ purātanaḥ yogaḥ.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti (BG 4.3).
Prabhupāda: Ah. Rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. "Because you are My bhakta and friend, therefore I am speaking to you the old system," purātanaḥ. No new system. The people now introduce new system.
Shri Narayan: Sanātana-jñāna hai na, Sanātana-jñāna hai. Paramparā se. (It is ancient knowledge, ancient knowledge, from the disciplic succession.)
Prabhupāda: Paramparā se hone se to purātanaḥ hoga. (If it is in the disciplic succession then it will be ancient.) They introduce their own interpretation. No nutan. (new). There is nothing required. What is that? Sa te 'haṁ yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Purātanam. Find out.
Shri Narayan: Kal to swamiji yahan ki do film bhi dekhi sabne, humlog bhi the. Wardha me to dekhi the. Sab log the jitne delegates aaye hain, bahut accha laga sabko. Wo ek to New Brindavan aur . . . (Yesterday Swamiji we saw two films along with others, we were also there. We had seen it in Wardha. Everyone was there, all the delegates who had come. Everyone liked it very much. One was about New Vrindavan and . . .)
Prabhupāda: People of the world, they're hankering after this civilization. Unfortunately, we are miser. We are not giving them . . .
Shri Narayan: All that they should get.
Prabhupāda: This is not good.
Shri Narayan: Wo bata rahe the, aap bhi bata rahe the na ki apne desh me bhook nahi hai dekhiye in cheezo ki. Videsh me to itni bhook hai, itna badh gaya 10 saal me aur apne desh me aap kehte hain vidyarthi nahi milta training ke liye kunki yahan to hum sab paschim ki taraf daud rahe hain, bhog-vilas ki taraf. Ek ajeeb dainiya halat hai ye. Lekin paschim me bahut hi anokool vatavaran hai. (They were saying and you were also saying, that in our country there is no eagerness for such spiritual knowledge. In the West there is so much eagerness, and it has increased in the last 10 years. In our country you say that you don't get disciples or students for training because here we are all running toward western culture, towards sense gratification. It is a very pitiable condition. But in the West the environment is very conducive.)
Prabhupāda: Where is that Bhagavad-gītā?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Can you give me the verse?
Prabhupāda: Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Find out the . . .
Shri Narayan: The . . . here it says sixteenth. Mere khayal se 16 hai kya, 16 adhyay eme hai shayad mere khayal se. Ikshvaku se liya . . . (I think it is in the 16th chapter, it can be found in the 16th chapter I think. It is taken from Iksvaku . . .)
Prabhupāda: Fourth, fourth. Fourth chapter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I have the fourth chapter. I'm already in the fourth chapter.
Prabhupāda: Read from the very beginning, fourth chapter.
Ramkrishna Bajaj: Swamiji, sammelan ke charcha ka thoda sa sriman ji apko thoda sa bata denge kyunki aap thak jayenge bolne me, to hum nahi chahte ki aap adhik bole lekin sammelan me jo charcha hui wo thoda . . . (Swamiji, the discussions which happened in the conference will be told to you by Srimanji because you will feel tired talking. So we don't want you to talk too much but the proceedings of the conference have those details . . .)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have the verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
- sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya
- yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ
- bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti
- rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam
- (BG 4.3)
Fourth chapter, third verse.
Prabhupāda: Krishna bola hai ye puratana. Aur ye sab naya. (Kṛṣṇa has told this ancient story. And all this is new.) So yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Eh? Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next verse?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aparaṁ bhavato janma param . . . (BG 4.4)
Prabhupāda: No. Sa kālena yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Read it, paramparā.
- evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
- imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
- sa kāleneha mahatā
- yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
- (BG 4.2)
Prabhupāda: Ah. Wo jo Purātana, the old system jab chod diya jayega Yogo naṣṭaḥ purā . . . sa kāleneha naṣṭaḥ wo nasht ho gaya. Nasht cheez lene se kya labh hoga. (That which is ancient, the old system, when it is discarded, "Yogo nastah pura sa kalena nastah", that is lost. What will you gain by accepting that which is lost?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have a very nice purport here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Read it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "It is clearly stated that the Gītā was especially meant for the saintly kings because they were to execute its purpose in ruling over the citizens. Certainly Bhagavad-gītā was never meant for the demoniac persons, who would dissipate its value for no one's benefit and would devise all types of interpretations according to personal whims. As soon as the original purpose was scattered by the motives of the unscrupulous commentators, there arose the need to reestablish the disciplic succession. Five thousand years ago it was detected by the Lord Himself that the disciplic succession was broken, and therefore He declared that the purpose of the Gītā appeared to be lost. In the same way, at the present moment also there are so many editions of the Gītā, but almost all of them are not according to the authorized disciplic succession. There are innumerable interpretations rendered by different mundane scholars, but almost all of them do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, although they make a good business on the words of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. This spirit is demonic because demons do not believe in God but simply enjoy the property of the Supreme. Since there is a great need of an edition of the Gītā in English as it is received by the paramparā disciplic succession system, an attempt is made herewith to fulfill this great want. Bhagavad-gītā, accepted as it is, is a great boon to humanity. But if it is accepted as a treatise of philosophical speculations, it is simply a waste of time."
Shri Narayan: (laughing) Aapne pehle bhi kaha tha na. Abhi to swamiji aisa hai ki humlog to aaj jayenge. Hum log to bhagvan se yehi prarthana karte hain ki apko . . . (You had said earlier also. Now it is that we are leaving today and we pray to God that He gives you . . .)
Prabhupāda: Aap to bhagvan hi maante nahin. (You don't believe in God.) And it is natural.
Shri Narayan: Nahi abhi aapka jivan, nahi hamara nivedan hai aagrahpurvak ki abhi apka jivan karya pura nahi hua, abhi bahut apko karna hai kaam. abhi to shuruat hui hai. Abhi to apke millions me hai, wo to billions me hone chahiye sari duniya me. To apki puri will power se apko accha hona hai. Ye hamara apse aagrahpurvak nivedan hai. (No. Now your life, no. Our humble request is that your life mission is not yet completed, you still you have to do a lot of work. It is just the beginning. Now you are in millions, you have to reach billions all over the world. So with all your willpower you have to recover, this is our humble request.)
Hamara cheez to sab mauzood hai. Lekin abhi apki jo . . . (All the things I require are there but you still have to.)
Prabhupada: Aap log sab younger hain, aap isko grahn kijiye. (You are all younger, you must accept this.)
Shri Narayan: Nahi wo to zaroor grahan karna chahiye apka jo vichar hai lekin ye abhi kaam jo apne 10-11 varsh me kiya, abhi aap . . . (No. We definitely have to accept your thoughts, but this work that you have done in 10 to 11 years, now you . . .)
Prabhupada: Hum kuch nahi kiye. (I have not done anything.)
Shri Narayan: Apke bhagvan ne kiya. (Your God has done it.)
Prabhupada: Nahi, kehne ka matlab, hum khali present kiya hai ye cheez aur kuch nahi. (No, what I meant to say is I have only presented it, nothing else.)
Shri Narayan: Lekin is kaam ko to abhi kuch failana hai na. (But this mission has to still spread, is it not.)
Prabhupada: Aiiye,aiiye. Isiliye to ye log ko prastut kiya hai. Aaplog sab . . . kijiye aur khub kaam chalega. (Come. Come. That is why I have presented it to these people, you people . . . do it and the work will go on.)
Shri Narayan: Nahi hum log to sab madad karenge hi, iten log sab aaye na sab desh se, sabko bahut accha laga. Sab kehte hain bahut accha kaam hai aur badhana hai. (No, we will all definitely help, so many people have come from different countries, they all like it. Everyone was saying that this work is laudable and it has to spread.)
Prabhupada: Aur aadmi chahte hain. ye log sab thak gaya, ye jo bacche ye thak gaya. (I need more people. These people are all tired, these devotees are all tired.)
Shri Narayan: Abhi apne desh me nahi thaka hai. Apne desh me abhi wo sab ek aakarshan hai. Yuvakon me aap dekhenge sharab pina aur, moorkh hain. Lekin abhi wo unko udhar hi daud hai. (Now they are still not tired in their country. In their country, it is still attractive. In youth you can see they are taking intoxicants. They are fools. But they are still running behind it.)
Prabhupada: Angrez aur . . . sab aaye na wo kum-se-kum moorkh bana ke chod gaye. (The Britishers and . . . they all came and left the people as fools.)
Shir Narayan: Moorkh bana ke gaya aur mrg-trshna abhi hai, bhag rahe hain mrg-trshna ki taraf. lekin videsho me jo apko mila hai response wo to ek chamatkar hai. (They left them as fools and a mirage is still there, they are running towards the mirage. But the response you have got in the western countries is a wonder.)
Prabhupada: It is natural
Shri Narayan: Natural and it is really marvellous how it has really happened. Us kaam ko apki . . . (That work needs you . . .)
Prabhupāda: They were also hankering. And as soon as they got it, they got life.
Shri Narayan: Yes, they got light. To ye kaam ka abhi apko sharir rakhkar aur zor se aur badhana hai. Abhi aap will power se theek ho jayiye. Doctor kya theek karega apko. Apke will power se aap theek ho jayenge. Apki will power nahi hogi to doctor kya karega. Aur apko phir will power se khada hokarke ye kaam ko khoob age badhana hai. Ye hamara agrahpurvak apse nivedan hai. abhi aap aisa na samajhiye ki kaam ho gaya, aur log kar lenge. Wo abhi apki bahut aavashyakta hai usko badhane ki. (So for this work you have to take care of your health and spread the mission. Now you get better by your willpower. What will the doctor do? You will get better by your will power. If you don't have willpower, what can the doctor do? And again by your willpower, you have to stand tall and take this mission forward . This is our humble request before you. Now you don't think that the work is over, and other people will do it. Your presence is required very much for spreading the message.)
Prabhupada: Hamara avashyakta hai, aap log ka bhi aavashyakta hai. (I am needed but you all are also needed.)
Shri Narayan: Nahi humlog to madad denge hi, humne to kaha na, lekin wo to aap aap hi hain na, humlog to nahi ho sakte. (No, we all will surely help—that I told you but you are what you are, we cannot take your place.)
Guest: Swamiji apki izzazat ho to mai akele me aapse kuch baat karna chahta hoon. (Swamiji, with your permission I would like to talk to you in private.)
Prabhupada: Kijiye. (Talk.)
Guest: Nahi to in bhaiyon ko. Nahi ye baat apne man ki akele me karna chahta hoon apki izzazat ho to. (No, then these people. No, I wanted to express my feelings in privacy with your permission.)
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (Okay.) You can go. They will talk with me something.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to go outside, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Shri Narayan: Tum baat kar lena acchi tarah se. (You talk to him nicely.)
Ramkrishna Bajaj: Swamiji apne to sab socha hi hoga. Lekin hamari tucch buddhi me ek-do sawaal aate hain. Wo apke saamne pesh karna chahte hain. Baki to aapne apne kaam ko 10 varsh me badhaya hai wo to hum dekh ke ascharychakit hain, adbhoot kaam hai. Lekin huko thodi si chinta hui hai. Kal aapse mile to laga ki aapka bhi dhyan ishwar ki taraf adhik-adhik jaa raha hai. to aise awastha me ishwar aur apke beech kya sampark hai wo hum nahi samajh sakte hain. Lekin ishwar apko kab bula le ye humko maloom nahi. Aapko maloom hai ki nahi pata nahi. Lekin humko chinta is baat ki hai ki itan bada ek sanghatan kayam hua hai. Uske baare me yadi aap nahi rahe tab aapne kuch socha hoga. Uske baare me humko kuch kalpana nahi hai par chinta hoti hai. Ki ek sari duniya ke andar Hindustan ki philosophy hai uske baare me itna bada kaam hua hai wo kahin bikhar na jaye. To iske liye humko kuch maloom nahi hai, humare man me ek chinta hui to humne kaha hum apke samne rakhe. Aapne jaroor kuch soch kar ke uski yojana ki hogi. Lekin kya pata apko bhagvan kab uthaye, utha sakta hai, bhagvan ki marzi, tab phir kya hoga. (Swamiji, you must have thought out everything. But in my limited intelligence I have 1-or 2 questions that I wish to present before you. Otherwise you have spread your message in 10 years for which we are surprised, it is amazing work. But I am a little worried. Yesterday when I met you, I felt your attention getting drawn towards God more and more. So in this situation. The relationship between you and God cannot be understood by us. When God takes you away is not known.
Whether you know it or not is not known. But my worry is that you have established such a big institution. In regards to this, when you are not present, you must have thought about it. I don't have any imagination about it but I get worried that throughout the world there is Indian philosophy, and such monumental work has been done, it should not be destroyed. So I don't know anything about this, but I was worried and wanted to present this before you. You must definitely have thought and planned something. But who knows when God will take you away. He can take you away, it is His will, then what will happen?)
Prabhupada: Nahi, ye log karenge. (No, these people will do it.)
Guest: Ye log karenge sab lekin isme se koi ek vyakti aapka sthan le sakta hai kya? Ya 5-10-20 log milke lenge. (These people will do it alright but can any one person take your place? Or 5 to 10 to 20 people together will take it.)
Prabhupada: Chaitanya Mahaprabhu aise nahi bola ki ek vyakti le le. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu ki agya hai ki sab koi guru ho. aisa nahi. Jo sab guru bano baki mai jaisa keh raha hoon vaisa karo . . . (Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not say like this, that one person can take it. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is that everyone should become a master. Not like this, that everyone becomes master and do as I am saying.)
Guest: Kyunki Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to akele rahe, aap bhi akele hi hain. (Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu was alone, you are also alone.)
Prabhupada: Ye akele hamara shakti nahi hai. tumlog aake humko sahyog karo, karke sara duniya me prachar karo. ye Chaitanya Mahaprabhu ka agya hai. (I cannot become powerful alone. You all come and support me, and preach to the whole world. This was the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.)
Guest: Lekin aap jo kar sake, wo kaun kar saka. (But what you did, no one else can do.)
Prabhupada: Nahi aap jaisa kar rahe hain hum bhi kar sakenge. (No. Whatever you are doing, even I can do that.)
Guest: Nahi, har ek vyakti ishwar shakti deta hai. (No every person is given strength by God.)
Prabhupada: Ishwar shakti jaise. (Some other . . . you are . . . God's energy.)
Guest: Excuse me, isko band kar dijiye. (please close this.) We are just talking alone with him We are talking alone with him. (break) (end)