771029 - Conversation - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



771029R1-VRNDAVAN - October 29, 1977 - 93:54 Minutes



Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru, talking about diet—milk, barley, curd)

Bhakti-caru: (explaining) To transport the medicine, someone can bring it from Calcutta here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or the same things, if the ingredients can be gotten from Delhi or Agra, they can be prepared here?

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Prabhupāda's car. We can go.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He says it's distilled. He has got to distill the medicine. For that he needs proper apparatus.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying Śrīla Prabhupāda should drink at least a kilo of milk every day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Phew! If he personally feeds Prabhupāda, I can believe that he'll take it.

Bhakti-caru: (explains comment to kavirāja)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He said that for ten, fifteen days let him be like this here, and then he'll take him to Māyāpur.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: And then he can take personal charge over there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now you have to get these medicines.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Get the medicines, and... He wants to see the kavirāja also, because he's going to give some instructions to him, like if in case, when he is not here, so that he can... (Hindi with kavirāja) There's a young kavirāja in the Rāmānuja...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that other gentleman will not...

Bhakti-caru: No, no, not him. I'm talking about Śrī Raṅgajī's temple there is a young kavirāja.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru) (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in that way he was thinking to leave, but now he's agreed to stay on for at least five or six days. We convinced him that "You stay here, and you take Prabhupāda to Māyāpur personally." That's what we're pushing for. We explained how all of his patients put together multiplied by one crore cannot equal Your Divine Grace. And he agreed. He said, "That I know." And we explained that... He was quoting from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we explained how Your Divine Grace was the representative and incarnation of Vyāsadeva, and he accepted that. He has very high respect for Vyāsadeva and for you, because he's seen your books. He knows that you're not ordinary. Then he described what was wrong with you and how he's going to be treating it. We told him that... Then I was asking him what is his native place. So he's Marwari. Then he was telling us the native town. And I asked him if he had any charitable dispensary. He said he wouldn't take any money. We were trying to think of different ways to... Anyway, he wouldn't take any money. Then he said he has a... He talked about his father. His father was a very big devotee of Nṛsiṁha-deva. So one day his father plus eleven other Vaiṣṇavas went to Badarikāśrama for darśana of the Deities. And on the way... They were walking, and on the way they were attacked by these baels.(?) They're called baels?

Bhavānanda: Aborigines in the north. Very ferocious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're ferocious men. So the men said that "Now we will kill you and take your money, plunder you." So his father said, "Well, we will give you whatever we have, but what is the use of killing us?" They said, "No, we are not brāhmaṇas. We are aborigines. So we like to kill also." So then the father said, "Then at least, the king, even if he hangs someone, he gives them five minutes for prayer. So give us five minutes." So then all of the Vaiṣṇavas, they chanted Nṛsiṁha-deva mantras very strongly. And suddenly there was a strong roaring of a lion, and a big ferocious lion leaped into the middle and ate up two of the attackers. And then all of the Vaiṣṇavas, they bowed down at the feet of the lion and they were offering prayers, and the lion went away. So his father... He said that if one has a pure heart, if he's a pure Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa can appear. He said in the form of the lion Kṛṣṇa actually protected them. So he wants to make some charitable dispensary in his home town on behalf of his father. I'm thinking if he cures you we will give him a nice donation towards that charitable dispensary.

Then we told him that... We asked him what kind of food does he like. So he told us, so that now we'll make arrangement. We gave him very good food this morning, and we will cook him roṭis. Bhakti-caru and another devotee are cooking. So they will cook him fresh vegetables as he likes, according to his taste. And Adri-dhāraṇa serves him personally. And then I said also, "While you're here, there's much time. We can take you to the different temples." Because this is the first time he's come to Vṛndāvana. I said, "Even in the afternoon you can go with Prabhupāda's car to Govardhana." He said, "First of all, before darśana, let us do the medicine." So he went with the car. He said, "I will drive the car. I can drive." We said, "We have a driver." He said, "If you don't have a driver, I will drive to get the medicine." So then they went into the city to get..., into Vṛndāvana to get the necessary medicines. He said very strongly, he said, "What I prescribe, no vaidya can talk over what I prescribe. If I prescribe something, it is correct. That I'm sure." But he is very devotional, very pakka, like a Marwari, just like a high-class Life Member. He sits very straight and he's... Now we will have to see. But the main point we stressed is that you will not have confidence in anyone else. So there's no point in..., that he should tell some other man that in his absence, "Do like this." Because supposing in his absence the medicine doesn't work right. Then the other kavirāja becomes the kavirāja. That we don't want. So I said, "You must see the reaction of the medicines, and you must... When Prabhupāda eats, you must sit there and watch and see what he's eating, see everything." And he said, "That I will do."

Another nice thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Remember, you initiated one devotee, Rādhā-Ramaṇa Goswami? You remember his father and mother, Joshis, from Delhi? You lived with them. So he wrote a letter to you about a week ago, saying that he wanted to come back. So I wrote him, "Yes, you come. Prabhupāda will see you." So he came today. He's in saffron with shaved head. So I thought afterwards he can come and... He wants to become a devotee again. He's wasted his five years. He knows he's wasted time. Akṣayānanda Mahārāja suggested that he can engage in helping Bhakti-prema Swami. Because Bhakti-prema, he dictates, but he needs someone to hear and to write. This way, he'll be working for your books and hearing the philosophy, and he's a literate person, three years in college. So anyway, he returned today. Nanda-kumāra also came. He arrived yesterday. So gradually everyone is returning to your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Not possible to leave you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So would you like to go on the parikramā this morning? We can make arrangements now?

Upendra: We have some grape juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to take something, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Drinking?

Prabhupāda: I have taken in the morning Horlick.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You took Horlicks? Want to take anymore?

Śatadhanya: We have some here.

Bhavānanda: Grape juice they prepared, if you like to take.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's about ten to eleven, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about ten minutes to eleven.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...we can go on parikramā. The weather is cool in Vṛndāvana now, even during the day. We'll put your sunglasses on so you won't be disturbed by the light. (indistinct background talking)

Śatadhanya: It's grape juice, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda drinks)

Bhavānanda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja and I went into the temple for darśana, and we were commenting how the people are so impressed by the Deities, all of the visitors, especially Rādhā-Śyāmasundara. They're so beautifully dressed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda Mahārāja was saying how last night you were saying that there's nothing nicer and more fortunate than to be the pūjārī of a Deity. (break) (discussing letter from Dr. G. Ghosh) We'll just get the sum and substance. He's offering his obeisances to Bhavānanda Mahārāja and the other devotees he met here. He says he's very anxious about your health and progress. He requests me to give him a report. He says as regards to starting of the dispensary and also organizing a health teaching center for educating the boys by the latest audio-visual methods, he said that you seemed to be very earnest about it. In fact, he says that you told him to start as soon as possible. But he wishes to explain some of his difficulties. So Dr. Sharma and Jagadīśa, the director of education, and... They've promised to go through the idea. But he didn't find that Dr. Sharma showed much inclination for this idea. The actual thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we want him to have a dispensary. We're not so much eager for his educational training. Naturally, Dr. Sharma was not so enthusiastic.

Prabhupāda: No. Our is spiritual education, no medical education.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That's the point.

Prabhupāda: Preliminary health principles, they can learn.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that's already going on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sharma is teaching Āyurvedic, basic Āyurvedic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, anyway, that's all right. So I'll explain to him that what we want... I already wrote him a letter inviting him to... He can have two rooms—one for his living and one for his dispensary, and treat the inmates here. I'll again repeat that. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Light?

Rajeev Gupta: Dr. Sharma said that you named introduction as Antar-Darśana because it gives in essence of the entire...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rajeev Gupta: Dr. Sharma suggested that we name introduction as Antar-Darśana, because it is the essence of the entire commentary. We have summarized the entire thing into thirty pages. So I thought we can name it...

Prabhupāda: Antar-Darśana?

Rajeev Gupta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Good. Read it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Read it.

Rajeev Gupta: (reads Hindi proofs of Bhagavad-gītā and discusses with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. (Hindi) Thank you very much.

Rajeev Gupta: (Hindi with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: First page. (Hindi)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: First page.

Rajeev Gupta: (Hindi with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: Title page.

Rajeev Gupta: Title. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Rajeev Gupta: (Hindi, reading first śloka and commentary) (break)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (Hindi with Rajeev Gupta reading) "As It Is."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's in all languages.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Rajeev Gupta: (Hindi, talking about Fiji)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā! (laughs) (Hindi, talks about Fiji, Kṛṣṇa-Kālīya)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's unlimited service that one can render.

Rajeev Gupta: That's why I become a bit discouraged sometimes, because I'm not able to do what I want to do.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation, mentions Hanumān-prasāda, Caitanya-caritāmṛta)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So you can translate also.

Rajeev Gupta: I want. It's his mercy, we shall do. (Hindi) ...because he's a person. He's a divine power. That's all. He's not a person.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation; Rajeev Gupta mentions Mahesh Yogi and Bhagavan Rajneesh)

(Hindi conversation)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nonsense.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) ...kṛṣṇa-śakti binā nāhi namāvatāra. (Hindi conversation) ...distribution. (asks if there is prasāda for Rajeev)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. You come with me, take prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Here Bharadvāja?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bharadvāja?

Prabhupāda: Doll exhibition. (Hindi)

Bharadvāja: Jaya.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You want to take some prasāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Bharadvāja: Nayanābhirāma.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi about Statesman article)

Upendra: Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda, none of us speak Hindi. There's no more Hindi-speaking disciples at your side just now. Bharadvāja, Nayanābhirāma and myself, Upendra dāsa, are here.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...Statesman report...

Upendra: They have that article in the next room.

Nayanābhirāma: I just cut it out.

Upendra: And we'll show it to Rajeev. They've gone to take prasādam just now.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Just make it dark. (sound of curtains closing) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...for getting a little more clear purposes of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust we're developing at Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Would you like to hear what we have written?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "First point: To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to the residents and the visitors of Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Second point: To propagate the consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, as it is revealed in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and to propagate that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, as is revealed in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta and the Caitanya Bhāgavata. 3] To bring all the members of Gauḍīya-Mādhava-samprādaya together nearer to Lord Caitanya and thus develop within humanity at large that each soul is a part and parcel of Godhead (Kṛṣṇa). 4] To teach and encourage the saṅkīrtana movement of congregational chanting of the holy names of God given in the teachings of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. 5] To erect temples, schools, colleges, universities, institutes of higher studies, hospitals and other buildings with or for the advancement of the objects of the Trust and to maintain, alter and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. 6] In keeping with the spirit of the previous ācārya's vision of Gauḍīya-Mādhva sampradāya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gauḍīya-Mādhva sampradāya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda and Śrīla Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous ācāryas in this line. 7] With a view to achieving the aforementioned purposes and to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, and other books and other items. 8] To do all such other things for the attainment of the objects of the Trust. 9] Trustee members are appointed lifetime. The members should always be seven. 10] A meeting once a year at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur during Gaura-Pūrṇimā. 11] There should be a chairman, a treasurer and a secretary, who are elected each year. 12] A quorum of at least five members." Finishes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these are the points, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we have... We expanded this. Your original simple point was to form a Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity for developing Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. So we have expanded it into these points if they please Your Divine Grace. We took the ideas mostly from your original points in the..., when you formed the New York corporation, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We used those points and just changed them around a little bit. Today that Jagadish, I forget his name, that lawyer from Mathurā, he is coming, so I'm going to be meeting with him, and I'll give him these points and see if he can draft a document, proper document. I'd like to get a document done in time so that when we go to Māyāpur, and especially at Gaura-Pūrṇimā, we can have the first meeting. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...mantras nonstop, always chanting while he's preparing. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (answering Prabhupāda's query) Where is Vrindavan? I spoke with him for about two hours this afternoon, going over all of the points again, and, er, I explained everything to him. He said that he's a very..., he personally has very bad luck, very unlucky person. He said, "My only possible hope is my father."

Prabhupāda: To guide him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I told him, "You're right. Actually, Prabhupāda is... All of us were in the same position. We're all unlucky. Our only hope is Śrīla Prabhupāda." I said, "As long as you keep remembering that, then you'll be all right." (break)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Submissive, we can guide him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he's very frightened of you. I told him that we also are. (laughter) I said, "Even though Prabhupāda is lying in bed ill, we are very frightened also."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's a fact. (break)

Prabhupāda: You are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: We are very much fortunate that after so many millions of lifetimes in the material world we have finally met a qualified spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: For fifty years they could not construct a maṇḍapa in Gauḍa-maṇḍala. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, or Charitable Trust? Which do you prefer, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. You...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda said... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He stays in the governor's room, room number 31. We gave him nice prasādam. (Prabhupāda coughs up mucus) Is the kavirāja here right now, Śatadhanya Mahārāja? Is he?

Śatadhanya: He was mixing medicines a little while ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to see him, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, not necessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (break) ...appreciative of Your Divine Grace and of ISKCON. Adri-dhāraṇa reports that while they were traveling together, during the ten hours they were discussing your Society's activities around the world. And the..., Shastrijī was saying how the effect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so transcendental that even if a person is mleccha-yavana, he can become a pure devotee by chanting of the holy name. And he said therefore he feels that the work which you are doing is the most important work being done by anyone in the whole world. He's very favorable towards you and towards ISKCON and the devotees. (break) ...has to admit that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that your work is the topmost of anyone on this planet. (break)

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Prabhupāda and Bhakti-caru discussing medicine and diet)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying that the more Śrīla Prabhupāda sleeps, it's better for him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really. He's sleeping a lot. Today you were sleeping a lot, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The morning also.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru and Prabhupāda; mentions broth)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He only took three spoonfuls.

Bhakti-caru: That also not fully; only half.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru; mentions barley water)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, did you have any problem with the stool today? There was not so much passing, I think.

Bhakti-caru: Not at all today.

Prabhupāda: Stool? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that problem has cleared up. It was that medicine. That medicine, that makara-dhvaja.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru; mentions something and Prabhupāda chuckles. Bhakti-caru describes what liquids Prabhupāda is taking )

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is it that Prabhupāda has no thirst?

Bhakti-caru: (asks kavirāja in Hindi) He says it's not good to have too much thirst. It's better in this condition. He's not eating anything. He says that to have the thirst is a kind of disease when the bile secretion increases.

Kavirāja: (Hindi) No wind. (Hindi)

(indistinct background discussion by devotees about fetching oil) (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The assistant? Somebody is appointed assistant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Adri-dhāraṇa is doing all assisting and serving to him—Adri-dhāraṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The boy from Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The boy who brought him.

Prabhupāda: No, Raṅganātha temple, somebody?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Not yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're not getting into that, because hopefully we want him to stay for, some time.

Prabhupāda: He has agreed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's agreed to stay for some time.

Prabhupāda: No, that assistant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we haven't approached anyone yet.

Bhakti-caru: No, he has come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you did approach?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Like, he just wanted to consult him. Consult him in the sense... At the first place he had to discuss about certain preparations, and he didn't have the books with him, so he wanted to see the books, so I took him there. And then he liked him, talking to him, and he says he's a very efficient person. So he wanted him to come tomorrow, so like when he is not here...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long he will stay here for?

Bhakti-caru: Four or five days he agreed to stay. But he says that in four or five days Śrīla Prabhupāda won't be able to travel. It will be at least ten to fifteen days. At that time...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, let us see. Maybe we can convince him to stay.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A bit longer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should try. Śrīla Prabhupāda? I had meeting with that lawyer? That man is wonderful. He is the first lawyer I have ever met that I honestly feel is an honest man. That Jagadish...

Prabhupāda: Agarwal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that his name? Agarwal? From Mathurā. Phew! Very high class man, thoroughly gentleman.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Noble-minded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We met. Svarūpa Dāmodara and I spent an hour at Bhagatjī's house. Bhagatjī brought him. So he's going to do that Trust. He says in three or four days' time he can finish it, Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, with the aims and objects we have given. Then I talked about that squandering amendment. So he explained that the best way to do it is that we amend it to say that they always get 250 rupees for their maintenance, and the other 750 rupees, instead of fixing it in their names, fix it in the name of ISKCON, and ISKCON executors of the will shall see that they give them the money at the time of seven years for the purposes of three: purchasing property, business, and for buying government stocks. And the profits from those, they can do anything they want with. He said don't let them put the 750 rupees in their name, because then they can do anything they want with it, squander it. But if you put the money in fixed deposit in ISKCON's name, then ISKCON can give them the money after seven years, for those three purposes. So if you approve, then he can make an amendment clause, and then you can sign it, and then it can be done. He understood everything very perfectly. He said actually... He understood it perfectly. Actually, because everything belongs to ISKCON, the whole will is more or less a moral, spiritual guidance, because legally everything is already ISKCON's. So I said, "But we want it to be morally and guided spiritually. To us, this is the will. Whatever this will says, we must follow, as Prabhupāda's disciples." He said, "Then I can make an amendment, which would be like that, that every month they'll get 250 rupees for their whole lifetime, and the 750 rupees will be put in fixed deposit for seven years in the name of ISKCON, and at the end of that, the ISKCON executors of the will, will give them each the money each month, fifteen hundred rupees, for the purpose of..., in those three ways, and that the money should not be squandered." He said that way, if ISKCON sees that the money is being squandered, then they stop giving them that money and they'll just give 250 rupees. Two hundred fifty rupees they must get. And Radharani De, she may get always one thousand rupees. She is older. Let her have that. Whatever she does is her business with the money. And, I think, this is a very good way. And we'll all make sure that they get the money, but they must use it properly. It's Kṛṣṇa's money.

Prabhupāda: And they'll remain in that house lifetime.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's a very good house. I spoke to him. I said, "Have you made any friends in that house?" He said, "Oh, they're all..." He called them lakhi-pati and crore-pati. (Prabhupāda laughs) I said, "So it's very good house. Such big people are living there."

Prabhupāda: Who said lakhi....

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vrindavan. He was saying that they're all big people living there. So I said, "That's good. It means a high-class place. You don't move out of there." He said, "It is a good place."

Prabhupāda: Very first class place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is first class. There's no doubt about it. I also got him a plane ticket. I sent a man to Delhi today, and we got the reservation. So he'll be leaving Vṛndāvana tomorrow morning at about 9:30, 9:00-9:30. So I told him that he should come and see you. He'll come in the morning to see you. He was... A couple of time you were sleeping today, so he could not come. Otherwise he was wanting to come.

Prabhupāda: So you guide him with his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I told him that you want me to help him in every way, and that there's no doubt we will do that in every way.

Prabhupāda: So about that traveling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Travel expenses... I talked to him, and I explained to him that he's taken ten thousand rupees for traveling expenses and twenty-five thousand rupees books, thirty-five thousand rupees, and he's paid six thousand rupees in two years. I said, "This is not good business." So he said, "Then stop the traveling money." I said, "I'll stop it temporarily. You start paying some money, then again we can give you the money." I said, "We want to give you the money, but do some business first." So he said, "All right."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he's pretty pleased to get this big amount now for making this contract. This is a big amount that he got, half a lakh nearly. From this, he can make more profit, and then he'll pay it back by April, and then we'll give him nine thousand rupees free, donation. Each of them gets nine thousand rupees as per your original scheme. So they are being looked to nicely. Actually, there's no difficulty. They have very few expenses. (break)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Kavirāja: (kavirāja chants viṣṇu-mantra) (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Prabhupāda drinks something) (Hindi—Bhakti-caru offers Prabhupāda miśri-jala; he refuses)

Kavirāja: (Hindi—Prabhupāda drinks more medicine)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Hindi—Bhakti-caru offers Prabhupāda Horlicks)

Kavirāja: (Hindi—asks Prabhupāda about parikramā; describes how medicine will act stage by stage)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi conversation—discusses Prabhupāda's drinking milk and Horlicks with kavirāja, who talks about heart, circulation, diet, suggesting honey)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should the honey be old or new honey?

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru; talks about the kidneys)

(indistinct background talking among devotees)

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru) (break) (Hindi with Prabhupāda) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I think whatever money you give Vrindavan for business, he'll spoil. He has already spoiled. They are getting, altogether, about two thousand rupees, even without any business—his mother one thousand, and they four, 250 each. So let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and eat and sleep. That's all. He has already spoiled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You can call him; I shall tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, that's also my opinion.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I fully agree with you. The fact of the matter is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he has no head for business.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anything he does, he's going to lose the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know that also.

Prabhupāda: And his assistant is looting him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He thinks this assistant is his greatest friend. Just like he's leaving on a plane. He's going to arrive Monday morning by eight o'clock in the morning, yet he feels he has to send a telegram to his assistant on a Sunday. I said, "What is the point of sending a telegram? The telegram will reach after you arrive. And even if it doesn't, what is the purpose of sending a telegram?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, he has no business brain. He should not be given a farthing. That is my conclusion. And the postal, they should be given to the respective...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As previously planned.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can call him. I shall tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll just send someone. (whispers to devotee aside to tell to get Vrindavan) Practically speaking, when I talk with him, with Vrindavan, I can only think in terms of a charity case, because when I talk to him about business, it's like talking to a young child. He doesn't grasp. I have to tell him the same thing ten times in a row. It's not that he doesn't understand English. He understands English quite all right. But he can't grasp simple business ideas. He's very... He just doesn't have it within him. They should be devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)