771028 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



771028R2-VRNDAVAN - October 28, 1977 - 93:50 Minutes


(Kaviraja from Calcutta Arrives)



Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...with the press...

Prabhupāda: What you are doing?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...with the press from the Indian Express and other newspapers. And also I went to the television and the All-India Radio for the engagement. And also I wanted to discuss with some of my members the immediate plan that we have. So I sent one to Bombay to organize a conference. So I'll try to cover this area very quickly—Agra, Delhi and Punjab. I'm meeting a lot of scientists. And also I collected several copies of the newspaper, The Statesman. I went to the Statesman building, collected the newspaper coverings. How are you feeling, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja did not come?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That kavirāja? What happened? No one knows. Is he coming from Calcutta?

Upendra: They left. They say he left Calcutta at twelve o'clock flight.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I could have gone to the airport. Maybe they are coming tomorrow on the train, Taj Express?

Upendra: No, by air they came.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no. From Delhi. I thought that maybe he didn't know that, Adri...? If it starts from Calcutta at twelve o'clock, it should be arriving at Delhi about two o'clock.

Upendra: Then let's say one hour, then three to here.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's a train at five o'clock that I came by, train, five o'clock. It's a very good train. Maybe they didn't know that train. It starts from Nizammuddin Station. So if they're planning to come by train tomorrow, the Taj Express is at seven o'clock in the morning, arriving Mathurā at nine o'clock.

Upendra: Someone could call Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know whether they're in the temple or not. I think some of our men came from Delhi temple about four o'clock, arrived in the temple. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we discussed a number of points. One thing is that I talked to him about Panchashil flat. So I explained to him that he should feel the responsibility for paying for the living there, as we have given him this nice place. So he's agreed to do that. And I told him that whatever he pays, the receipts should be in your name, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Apparently, the receipts have been issued in the name of M. M. De. So I told him don't do that, because if they get the receipts in their name, then they become the tenant. I don't want that. They're living there as our guest, not as tenants. So he agreed to that. As soon as I mentioned it, he understood what I was talking about. M.M. is a little clever, I think. So then I told him, however, that the permanent electricity was never hooked up. Permanent electricity line was never installed. So since that was an initial giving of the flat, I told him that if he paid for half of that, we would pay the other half. I said but first of all he has to pay and send me the receipt showing that he's paid, and then we'll pay. It's about 650 rupees.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred and fifty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Half. It's thirteen hundred total. This is for permanent connection of electricity. The flat never has had a permanent connection. The whole building is not permanent. It's a temporary line. So all the...

Prabhupāda: Yearly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Once and for all. It's a permanent installation of a permanent line. The yearly electricity bill he'll pay. That's his business. Then he seems to want to repay this amount that we're giving from the postal receipts. So I have no objection. If he repays, then we'll simply follow the original scheme and divide it up accordingly. Or he can divide it up. I don't know why he wants to pay it back. I don't know. I've explained to him that it's a donation. But anyway, it's better he pays it back, and then we can give it to each of the persons involved. I don't think there's any need of taking any loan agreement or anything, is there? Is there any need?

Prabhupāda: I don't think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, verbal agreement is enough, isn't it, in dealing with him? I would think so. I mean, I thought it was sufficient if he agrees verbally. No contract or loan agreement. He wants to pay this money back by April. I didn't tell him he had to. I told him it was a donation. But he seems to want to pay it back. So let him if he wants to. Then he wanted me to arrange, so I'm sending... I gave the receipts to him, as you saw. I'm sending the letter... I'm sending a man to Delhi tomorrow to get a ticket for him, airline ticket.

Prabhupāda: Where he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's gone to take his meals now. Then he's going to take rest, he said.

Prabhupāda: And he has got the papers?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He gave them back to me to keep in the almirah locked up. He said until he goes he wants me to keep them carefully. I said all right. And I'm getting him a ticket as well as sending the letters by special mail service to Bombay for Girirāja's signature, so that at least from our side there will not be any reason to delay. And when I showed him the letter that I had written to the bank, he was very satisfied. He could understand that there should be no difficulty now. He was quite confident after reading the letter. The letter is very clearly written, and with the power of attorney it's a complete document. I think everything was done all right. He seemed to be satisfied.

Prabhupāda: So what about kavirāja? He might think it is a whimsical. And that was my last desire. You could not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja, I wanted. Somehow or other, it has not happened.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't feel that it's conclusively not happened.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply, one after another, frustration.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First we had that Madhva..., not Madhva; Rāmānujī came from Śrī Raṅgajī temple, and he seemed to be a cheater. Then this one... We got this medicine from that śakta-kavirāja, and that medicine turned out to be poison. And now this kavirāja who's supposed to be coming from Calcutta, it's become a mystery where he is. The temple was called, and they said that they've left.

Bhavānanda: Twice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They called twice to Calcutta, and they said they've left, and yet he's not here. I don't know what to make of it. Very puzzling situation. I think that if by tomorrow noon they have not arrived, then Śatadhanya can go to Calcutta to bring them. If they're going to arrive, they'd arrive by tomorrow noon.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, at the latest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the latest absolutely. I mean, to me, for them to arrive by tomorrow noon was not... From the very beginning I would not have felt it was out of the ordinary.

Prabhupāda: They said they have left!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Still, whatever the reason is.

Prabhupāda: But you are not talking... Everything is being done by the same Śatadhanya. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By the same what?

Prabhupāda: Śatadhanya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughter) Yeah, that's maybe what the problem is.

Prabhupāda: And people are bluffing him, and he says...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he's bluffing us. (laughs) He seems very sincere, though. It's hard not to believe him.

Prabhupāda: And that was my impression. But how is that? If you take leave, something(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is a big mystery, this makara-dhvaja. It is like the immortal elixir, very hard to grasp. I think you described the flowers in the sky? There's that Bengali...

Bhakti-caru: Ākāśa-puṣpa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, one thing we could say in favor of the kavirāja delay in coming is that if he had come, then he might have given some medicine right away. But this way, your body has been given a chance to rest from that other thing that you had taken. By not taking medicine for two days now, it's good. It's made... The body will become a little more regular. If he had come, naturally he would have wanted to immediately prescribe some medicine. This is not bad, to give the body a rest after such strong medicine. How much did Prabhupāda drink today?

Bhakti-caru: A little over 450.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The stool-passing has stopped?

Bhakti-caru: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better that you don't drink any more tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, except a little bit of miśri-jala or some little bit. Then by tomorrow you should be more normal again. Anyway, our activities are going on—parikramā, kīrtana, Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Can I go to Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but... I mean, just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don't have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there's so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can't see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kavirāja is going to come. I have faith in Śatadhanya Mahārāja. I think this is simply Kṛṣṇa's test for him. I think the kavirāja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kavirāja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you...

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...you know, we go back with him to Calcutta and Māyāpur. That would be very nice. Of course, he has to first of all come here. I've seen things like this happen before in India, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean India is the kind of place where...

Bhakti-caru: It's difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's difficult. You could drop out of communication for a day. It's very possible that that can happen. It's just a very strange kind of place to communicate and to travel in.

Bhakti-caru: Another thing is that I think this twelve o'clock flight, the noon flight, is not a direct flight. It's a Caravelle(?) that hops, say, from Calcutta, Benares, Allahabad, Lucknow, Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So how many hours could that be?

Bhakti-caru: Five, six hours. Takes a long time. And it's not as fast as Boeing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means it would arrive at 6:30 or 7:00. I think that by tomorrow noon, if they didn't come, then we would have to say that the matter has become hopeless for them coming. And really it's a fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you've been resting today without taking any medicine is not a bad thing, you know.

Bhakti-caru: And the passing stool has stopped.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that stopped. That's the main thing. That was the disturbance—the stool was passing. (pause) So many people are coming to the temple here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Many pilgrims. The temple is full of people all the time. Lots of pilgrims coming. Devotees were saying that in other temples there's not so much activity as here. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma are attracting all of the people of the land. Everyone is attracted to Them. But it seems like Rādhā-Śyāmasundara are equally popular. People like Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa very much, and especially in Vṛndāvana. But Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma is unique. I hear them exclaiming. They are at once surprised and pleased to see the two brothers together.

Bhakti-caru: And the śṛṅgāra is so unique here. It's the best.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everyone says the śṛṅgāra is the best. But for flowers we have not yet the best. So we have to make that. Bhavānanda Mahārāja was suggesting a program, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He was suggesting that in that open land on the side of the gurukula, that we could build a prasādam pavilion, and we could serve the public every day free prasādam at noon time. That might become very popular in Vṛndāvana. Ḍāl and cāpāṭis. All the sādhus would come. I don't know if it's a good idea, but he was suggesting.

Prabhupāda: Good idea. Very good idea.

Nayanābhirāma: We used to serve them khicuṛi in the morning. Then they discontinued.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, so many pilgrims come, and there are already so many sādhus living in Vṛndāvana. This would make our temple very, very popular additionally, even more popular than now. So many pilgrims come. I see them. And they're farmers and things, you know. And if we gave that, probably they would be inclined..., even some of the farmers would bring a little of their..., you know, thinking to offer something also to the Deities, because they would see that we were giving things.

Prabhupāda: If you distribute prasāda, there will be no scarcity of participants. Bhāta ei kāke āra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda? What does that...?

Bhakti-caru: "If you scatter rice, then there's no dearth of crows." (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "No dearth of crows."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll come by the bunches.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like there's a Bengali proverb for practically everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Ektu bhauma bhauma deśa tabu raṅge bara.(?) Explain this.

Bhakti-caru: That "Bengal has been divided into so many different parts, but still it's full of rasas and humor."

Prabhupāda: Bengali people are easy-going. So therefore they can manufacture all these humors. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would your Guru Mahārāja tell a lot of Bengali proverbs, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. I learned from him. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You once said that he liked you very much, 'cause you were also a Calcutta boy, Calcutta born. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...(indistinct) has money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I started to have a talk with him about the...

Prabhupāda: You write. You are intelligent. I cannot do anything. I only want...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that point.

Prabhupāda: (crying) I am very poor man, and somehow or other, I built up. And still in my...

Kavirāja (Damodara Prasad Shastri): (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (whispering) Get Bhakti-caru.

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Aiye. (Hindi with kavirāja, explaining about the dream and talking about Caitanya Mahāprabhu) Damodar Prasad. (Hindi)

Adri-dhāraṇa: (translating) What is the actual problems?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The problems are that... The biggest problem...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi with kavirāja)

Adri-dhāraṇa: (translating) Any test on the urine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is the urine report? (indistinct) urine report. They sent.

Adri-dhāraṇa: Where's the descriptions? (background discussion as they try to find)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is Bhakti-caru? (break)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

(Hindi—kavirāja and Prabhupāda, as kavirāja examines Prabhupāda)

Bhakti-caru: Since when is that dropsy, he said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The dropsy is more than one year.

Prabhupāda: No, one year... Less.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean, I asked Hari-śauri. He said that that swelling has been there for a long time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've seen it for ages... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi with kavirāja, explaining recent medical history)

Bhakti-caru: (translating) Last three, four days, any blood in the urine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Kavirāja: Prasādam quantity... (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Give him the book. He'll see the quantity.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi with kavirāja)

Bhavānanda: Tell him when the urine was bloody...

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi with kavirāja, explaining the amounts)

Bhavānanda: When was the urine was bloody? One week ago?

Bhakti-caru: That was about ten days back. (Hindi with kavirāja)

Bhavānanda: And tell him that Prabhupāda took allopathic medicine last week. He asked for information.

Bhakti-caru: Let him see it first. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can Prabhupāda lie on his back?

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: Who has come with him?

Śatadhanya: This is Adri-dhāraṇa dāsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I told you about him, that he's collecting very big in Calcutta, making many members. So he has come with the kavirāja personally.

Prabhupāda: He belongs to which province?

Adri-dhāraṇa: I was born in Bombay, but my parents are from Sindh.

Śatadhanya: Sindhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's born in Bombay.

Bhakti-caru: And he joined in Florida, yes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: International.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi with kavirāja) About six months back we had a report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Urine specimen report?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. This is the... He's asking about that time, four or five months ago.

Bhavānanda: This one is from...

Bhakti-caru: Yes, this is very recent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's better.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru telling about water amounts and milk making cough, and diet)

Prabhupāda: Lucī.

Kavirāja: Lucī! (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Pressure is good. When Dr. Ghosh came, that other Dr. Ghosh came... (Hindi) ...pressure, 180 and 80. (Hindi with kavirāja; discusses prostate) He's saying that in this condition, Prabhupāda can't take makara-dhvaja. That any medicine that contains mercury and arsenic is poison to him.

Bhavānanda: That's what Prabhupāda said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a fact. He found that to be true.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He said had he started treating Śrīla Prabhupāda a month and a half ago, it would have been a lot better. (Hindi—long conversation with Prabhupāda and kavirāja; explains about Māyāpur trip) He's saying that after ten days Prabhupada's condition will be completely improved.

Kavirāja: (Hindi—long conversation with Prabhupāda and Bhakti-caru)

Bhakti-caru: (explaining) Makara-dhvaja is a brahmāstra. For Prabhupāda it's not good.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi with kavirāja, asks about milk)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi—explains what Prabhupāda does)

Kavirāja: (Hindi—conversation with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: So, you make the chart, and you mix, and you follow. (Hindi)

Kavirāja: (Hindi—long conversation with Prabhupāda; kavirāja makes references to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, dāsānudāsa, and quotes Sanskrit verses and talks about the worship of Lugdu-Gopāla and śālagrām)

Prabhupāda: (to Adri-dhāraṇa) (Hindi) tickets.

Bhakti-caru: (to Adri-dhāraṇa) Did you pay for the tickets?

Adri-dhāraṇa: Yes, yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi—long conversation with kavirāja, mostly about spiritual topics)

(kavirāja leaves) (break)

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's hard to... I couldn't follow everything because it was in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He, erm, he talks a lot. Of course, Marwaris always talk a lot. He's a Marwari, so they always talk like that. We'll have to see how his medicine works, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's no way to tell; we are always getting fooled. But first impression simply by seeing is very difficult in this age. I would rather...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the last. We have tried. So, let us follow him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Definitely we should try his medicine.

Prabhupāda: Adri?

Adri-dhāraṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: So, what is that? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You give him some hint. He was going to talk, and you stopped him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Going to what?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Adri-dharaṇa:) Does he have a big practice in Calcutta?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, very big practice. He is known for his quality, mixing of drugs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Acchā. Big practice in Calcutta.

Adri-dharaṇa: On the plane he met another doctor, and he chastised him for making diluted drugs. So it seems...

Prabhupāda: Huh? Śāstrī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that on the plane he met another doctor, so he chastised that other doctor for making diluted drugs. He's known for his upstanding qualities in making..., the mixing of drugs purely.

Adri-dharaṇa: Everything he makes, he claims that he makes by the hand. And he's also recommended by another Rāmānuja Āyur-veda. Actually, we had gone to see him there, and he said to approach this man. He said this is the best man in the field.

Prabhupāda: Who is that man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the other man?

Adri-dharaṇa: That man, Govardhanji, he is on (indistinct) Cotton Street, and he was recommended by L. N. Bangor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, the other one?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he would not come.

Adri-dharaṇa: No, he said that "You need the best man for this," and he said..., he recommended him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That other one, Govardhanji, he was a Rāmānuja?

Adri-dharaṇa: Also Rāmānuja, but not so staunch as this man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: L. N. Bangor recommended another one, but that other one, when Adri-dharaṇa went there, the other one recommended this one, saying this one is better. And Adri-dharaṇa said this one is more staunch.

Adri-dharaṇa: And when I came he was very..., he had many good Vaiṣṇava qualities. Immediately he said, "This is for Gurujī, for a devotees. I am not take anything. I'll do all my services free."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good quality.

Adri-dharaṇa: Actually, when he flies and...

Prabhupāda: So, this is a last resort. Whatever it may be. Is that all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, we don't mind going on looking one after another for...

Prabhupāda: Huh. No more. No more trial. Adri-dharaṇa?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Adri-dharaṇa: About this man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Follow strictly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you agree that we should follow strictly his advice?

Adri-dharaṇa: From my experience I think he's a very good man. He's a Vaiṣṇava.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We certainly have... We might as well try. We've tried everyone else.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So let us try.

Bhavānanda: He did agree with your own diagnosis, Prabhupāda. He said makara-dhvaja at this point would be poison, and today you said that it was poison.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: So that was...

Prabhupāda: Mmm.

Śatadhanya: (whispering) Does he look like the man in the dream?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya asked whether he looks like the man you saw in the dream.

Prabhupāda: He has tilaka?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he has nice tilaka.

Prabhupāda: The other man, he has not tilaka?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Govardhanji has tilaka?

Adri-dharaṇa: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Adri-dharaṇa: Also Govardhanji was not very..., extremely helpful. He said he would not come to Vṛndāvana. He said he would not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now this man said in fifteen days Prabhupāda would be better?

Adri-dharaṇa: He said there will be improvement. In a few days, two or three days, there will be improvement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he's staying for two or three days at least? Or is he going to stay one day and leave?

Adri-dharaṇa: So he is not... His mind is not made up. I'll have to talk to him and ask him to stay longer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let him first of all prescribe...

Adri-dharaṇa: Medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he should stay to see what the effect of the medicine is. Supposing he prescribes, and it has a reverse reaction? Then if he's gone how will he see anything?

Prabhupāda: No, whatever chart he has made, he'll follow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we can follow, but if it has a bad reaction, you'll want to change it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We can't say that we'll follow blindly. If something is given and it doesn't work properly, you'll want to have it adjusted. Better if he stays here for some time with you.

Adri-dharaṇa: At least some days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least for a few days he should stay here and see how the medicine is working.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. First of all let him make chart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, of course. No, that's right. First he should make prescription, and then we'll see.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Adri, you should go with him. You are staying in that room with him?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, I'm staying with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why don't you go? I told him to go, be with the kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's staying in the same room with him.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They gave him the governor's room, that number thirty-one, the big room. Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I talk to you about Vrindavan Chandra?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I had a little talk with him, you know.

Prabhupāda: Ha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause you're giving him about... He gets about 800 rupees a month from the BBT for travel expenses.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I have some experience with myself as organizing books distribution.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So when we would spend with our Rādhā-Dāmodara party, we used to spend about five thousand dollars a month for travel expenses, but for that five thousand dollars we would make a hundred thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, twenty times whatever we spent on travelling...

Prabhupāda: And if he does not give substantial order, then stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he's not giving any order. I mean, the point I made to him was that...

Prabhupāda: Then don't give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him, "Vrindavan, you're getting 800 rupees, so for that 800 rupees you must be booking ten to twenty thousand rupees' worth of orders."

Prabhupāda: So if he's not giving, then stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I said to him, "If you're getting ten to twenty thousand, either..., two things are happening: either you're not getting the orders—then what is the use of spending 800 rupees?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Or the other thing is that you're getting the orders but you're not giving any money to the BBT."

Prabhupāda: Then let them be satisfied with stipends, two hundred, three hundred, live in that house, and then like that, nothing wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have no objection to paying him if he was doing business, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...I just see he's not doing it.

Prabhupāda: I fully depend on your discrimination. I..., if he's not giving bill, then just stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him that "If you do business, you take the 800 rupees, but doing business means you'll pay the BBT some bills."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "If you're not paying any bills it means you're not doing business." He is...

Prabhupāda: Very carefully the... I want they may not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Squander.

Prabhupāda: ...suffer for want of stipend and place. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Do like that, and I fully depend on you. If he's not giving business, what is the use of?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is spen... I think he's just taking the money and using it for some other business. He can't be spending 800 rupees and not doing any business.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if he's spending the 800 for traveling and not booking order, then what is the use of spending the 800 rupees?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tell him frankly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then stop everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him. I said, "You think about it tonight, and tomorrow we'll talk again."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hmm. Do everything very cautiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not that out of affection we shall squander money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mm.

Prabhupāda: So use your best intelligence, and if he has not given, then stop everything. Let them have two hundred fifty per month per head and live in that house. That's all. This is my final.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred fifty plus we have to fix seven hundred fifty.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For seven years.

Prabhupāda: That is after.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven years.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is after.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Not a single paisa more than two hundred fifty. Only my wife may get five hundred, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's getting a thousand, actually.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (pause) So take his chart and try to follow. This is the last resort. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Well, don't say it is the last. We're not going to..., ever going to give up hope.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. He appears to be hopeful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He seems very hopeful. His attitude appeared hopeful.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that your heart is very strong, therefore what is the question of dying? They all say that point. Their whole contention is on the heart, that because the heart is strong, they say there's no question of dying. And actually, that agrees with the astrologers. None of the astrologers say you will die now. They all say it's a difficult time, but they never say that you will die now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that you'll overcome this.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And your disciples all say that you will overcome. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Heart is strong, then where is the question of tuberculosis? (laughs) Wrong present(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Somebody said tuberculosis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that was that allopathic Dr. Gopal.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śatadhanya: He was guessing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Foolish.

Śatadhanya: He was just guessing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was guessing, but he gave the recommendation for a strong anti-tubercular medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Therefore I am not going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally failure for you. There's no question of going back to them in any case.

Prabhupāda: He has already concluded something, and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And strong medicine he prescribed.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would have created havoc with his testing.

Prabhupāda: I am not going to die... I will die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. (quiet laughter) The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they make you... If you don't have the disease, then they'll make sure you get it, simply to be right.

Prabhupāda: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good (indistinct), that's all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I'll not object; I will follow. Is that all right?

Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you tell us is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. And from Vrindavan, if he's not getting business, stop all, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not getting business. He told me he's having bad luck; he cannot get any business.

Prabhupāda: Oh, so if he has to do business, he has to pay cash and he'll give fifty percent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If he was getting the business, he would have paid your BBT some money.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In over a year he has paid two or three thousand rupees. That's not business. He's taking 800 rupees a month for so long for travel expenses, and he's paid maybe two or three thousand rupees total. I mean it's crazy business.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anybody can see it's not good business.

Prabhupāda: So, stop it all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I talked with him in a nice way, though. I said, "Now you tell me, Vrindavan." I gave him the points. I said, "So you think about it tonight, and you let me know tomorrow." I'm talking in a nice way with him, because I feel that in... I want them to be happy. I can see they're not so intelligent, so they should not suffer.

Prabhupāda: At least five thousand rupees' business must be given; otherwise stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Immediately there should be business. If a man spends nearly a thousand rupees for travelling every month, he must be making fifteen, twenty thousand rupees. But he is not giving any money at all to the BBT. So where's the one thousand rupees going that he's given? He couldn't be using it for...

Prabhupāda: So we have given him chance, and now stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've given him travel money now for about two years. And he hasn't given any money to the BBT out of it, so I, I really question it. I'll talk with him further.

Prabhupāda: You deal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know how to do this, because I was doing the saṅkīrtana, so I know what should come from the money he's spending. It's the same idea as anywhere in the world. You spend, it's business, business, whether it's dollars or rupees. I'll try...

Prabhupāda: That man who has kept, he's working as assistant, he is plundering him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I think so.

Prabhupāda: He's a foolish man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the thing is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he's not that intelligent. He's going to be plundered, I mean that's the unfortunate part. That's why we just have to help them, and at the same time not let them suffer.

Prabhupāda: No, try to help, but not squander.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's the point.

Prabhupāda: I give you full freedom. As you learn. But arrange that they may remain in that house, lifelong, and get each two hundred and fifty. Only my wife five hundred, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What happens after, when they start getting seven hundred fifty rupees after seven years? They may squander a little bit. But we'll be...

Prabhupāda: No, that is already invested. I read government paper.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Those three things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Good. When the seven hundred and fifty rupees is put in fixed deposit for them, it's put in their name, so it belongs to them, and we can just tell the bank...

Prabhupāda: Then let them...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let them have it.

Prabhupāda: After seven years.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can have it, even if they...

Prabhupāda: ...squander. I don't mind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Prabhupāda: Our money is not touched.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can only exercise a certain amount of control; the rest they have to also have some control.

Prabhupāda: Our capital is not touched.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not touched.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, I understand how to deal with them. We have to be like their guardians.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the point. We have to see that they are taken care of and try to help them to live properly.

Prabhupāda: You are so intelligent boy, you can control them; otherwise stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So you try to rest now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So thank you very much, Adri-dharaṇa.

Śatadhanya: He went back to his room.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He worked well today.

Prabhupāda: I was surprised that in morning he said, "I'm coming." Anyway, better late than never.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. All glories.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All glories to you. (break) ...were saying.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of our men went to the Delhi University. They also met the Dean of Sciences, Delhi University. In fact they told him..., he told them that there is news release. So in fact he gave the cutting of the newspaper to them. So they have read. So it seems to me that there's some good publicity. (break) Most of them knew that we were coming from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: A new light.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. There's going to be an international symposium in Madras early next year about the..., what they call complex light molecules in evolution, and there's going to be some Nobel Prize–winning scientists. So we'll be writing a letter to present our paper in that symposium. That's first week of January next year. I think if we can present one paper, that will be, I think, quite good. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi with kavirāja)

Adri-dhāraṇa: Did you have good rest last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: At the end of the night.

Kavirāja: Ācchā. (Hindi with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: What is the quantity?

Bhakti-cāru: Of the Horlicks, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhakti-cāru: [Hindi with kavirāja and Prabhupāda as kavirāja examines Prabhupāda and kavirāja prescribes various things: "Narkachur[?], like salt," barley, in a list, and discusses what fruits can be taken as juice] How about his food? When he is to eat? (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mornings, he used to take. Fruits.

Bhakti-cāru: No, he's just asking what the main meal is, anyway.

Kavirāja: (Hindi, sugesting dāl and cāpāṭis, and discussing milk)

Bhakti-cāru: (Hindi) (break) (end)