771028 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



771028R1-VRNDAVAN - October 28, 1977 - 82:47 Minutes



Prabhupāda: Where is Tamāla?

Devotee: He's here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean, er, we already said some juices, vegetable juice. You said you have no objection to broth, vegetable broth. So he's proposing some vegetable broth. That's nice. We can try. And... You see, you have to understand, one thing is that Prabhupāda willingly takes fruit juices. You've never experienced a patient like Prabhupāda, who will not take what you prescribe. Everybody that you've worked with, they take whatever you tell them to take. But Śrīla Prabhupāda is not that kind of patient. You tell him to take... You'll make a broth for six hours, and he'll take one spoon and then reject it. And then that's finished. So the point is that if he willingly takes some type of a fruit juice, for example—and we've seen, for example, how he willingly will take grape juice in big quantities. He may not take the thing which you prescribe in big quantities. Better that he takes some liquid than nothing at all.

Mādhava: This is very true.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the proposal that he continues to take some fruit juice has certain merit, because at least we've seen that that's one thing that he will take in large quantities. If nothing else... Every single kavirāja and doctor we've consulted, they all insist that one of the most important things is that there be sufficient liquid taken so that the body can be cleansed properly. So although you may be right that by taking one thing in particular and not taking fruit juice may be preferable, if he can't take it, then there's no use in that point.

Mādhava: That's true. If Śrīla Prabhupāda would take nothing but fruit juice, it is much better that he have the fruit juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So therefore Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu's suggestion was not unbased, because we see that in the past Prabhupāda has rejected... I've seen him reject vegetable broths. I saw him reject it at least three or four times. But I've never seen him reject fruit juice. So how much vegetable broth will Prabhupāda take? He won't take 500, 600, 800 cc's. He may, but I've never seen such a thing.

Bhavānanda: He'll take one glass.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have to consider that, although he should take sufficient liquid. So you have to augment... (break) ...Śatadhanya, when we called Calcutta, and then I could not fall asleep properly because I was very... My mind was active last night. For three hours I was not sleeping.

Prabhupāda: On the back side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Little scratching, should I do? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...kramā on the palanquin, practically it is very pleasant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very what?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You look very much like you're enjoying when we take you around. It's very nice to see that you're happy then. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, when someone is ill as Your Divine Grace is, it's always a case of lamentation, but somehow or other, because of your most wonderful Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is simply nectarean to be with you.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Indian Overseas Bank. So Prabhupāda's idea is that all of you should get sufficiently everything that you require, that you should never feel any difficulty. But he is very concerned that the money should not be squandered, not even... (break) ...going to deal with the letter. He simply instead told you to come.

Vrindavan De: I have sent money twice. Once in Vṛndāvana and Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we got the 870 rupees. That we received here.

Vrindavan De: But took from Prabhupāda personally.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But so far, the payment to the BBT has not come.

Vrindavan De: No, BBT is being arranged. I shall send check.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think your outstanding bill is about 25,000 rupees.

Vrindavan De: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that has not been paid.

Prabhupāda: So, why you have not paid?

Vrindavan De: That is also on a check basis. On its encashment I shall send a draft to BBT. I got some outstanding checks. So it takes time, at least a month or more than a month. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're going to give this business...

Vrindavan De: But I wrote to Prabhupāda some loan that is to be repaid in the April positively.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding this loan, you were to make twelve percent out of it. Right? You were going to make twelve thousand rupees' profit.

Vrindavan De: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the investment.

Vrindavan De: One lakh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you're not making one lakh profit.

Vrindavan De: No. Profit is twelve thousand, yes, twelve to fifteen thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now by these postal receipts, you're making 27,000, apart from your brother's amount. Because yours, your mother's and your sister's will give you 27,000.

Vrindavan De: No. I want that loan for the time being. I shall pay it back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that loan... You have to understand something.This loan... The Society cannot loan...

Prabhupāda: All the money he can take, loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the basis of that money.

Vrindavan De: It is for a month or three or four months.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, that's not what Prabhupāda's saying. On the basis of those postal receipts. Is that what you're saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You can put up those postal receipts, that money, to the bank, and they can issue you loan against that money.

Vrindavan De: I don't think so. I don't know, actually, because I don't have any idea about it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because, Śrīla Prabhupāda, our Society cannot loan money for a business like this. This is not our Society's business at all. You're not... Of the one lakh of rupees' worth of books, only six thousand rupees is from ISKCON's books. So how can we loan one lakh of rupees? Then we should... We can't start loaning money for these kind of businesses. It's against the Society's memorandum and rules that money can be given to individuals for their personal businesses. This is a charitable society. It's bounded by the Society's charity laws. So Prabhupāda, whatever money he has, he has got as a benāmadāra of the Society. He may donate the money in the sense of giving a stipend to family members. That's different. But as far as giving loans for business purposes to an individual private business... I mean we would lose our charitable status, because the accounts are audited every year. So it will look very... In fact, if we do that, then they will bring..., they may raise objection to the stipend also. Now they can't raise objection, because it's given as a stipend to the family, former family, of this ācārya. They won't say anything. But if we start taking Society money and loaning it to a private business, which is the way they'll see it, then they'll raise objection. Furthermore, then we'll have to charge interest, and if we charge interest, that gets us into a lot of trouble also. As a Society, we're not supposed to be doing business, profit-making business.

Prabhupāda: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.

Prabhupāda: So this much can be given to him. You can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That amount can be given to him, and he may pay back the loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's getting the postal receipts, so let him keep those.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When it is matured...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's going to be matured in ten days, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't think it's advisable that we should pass entries in our accounts simply for ten days' time. It's not... By the time he goes back...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may take indirectly for the purpose with the help of Chandra.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he can take that money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That I also say.

Prabhupāda: So that is 47,000?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 43,200 rupees.

Prabhupāda: So seven thousand we can give, contribution. In that way...

Vrindavan De: Whatever the amount I may take, I can pay back by tenth or fifteenth April, positively.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He'll get 43,200 by the seventh of November.

Vrindavan De: Because we have got an order from the National Library of Calcutta worth one lakh. So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So supply him half the order to begin with.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not do that?

Vrindavan De: It is on our confirmation, because the money is the main criterion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll have the money by the seventh of the month.

Vrindavan De: I don't have any such big amount. But if you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. The postal receipts. But some of the money is to Sulakshmana De, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Some of this money...

Prabhupāda: No, all the money he can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that's not what we wrote in the letter, though, because the letter nominated different persons. Then we're going to have to do a completely different thing. Because the nomination was already designated to five different persons.

Prabhupāda: I think he can have the... I do not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I also don't know the procedure. (break)

Vrindavan De: The seventh November is the last date to confirm them, and I shall be going back by third or fourth of... Of course, tickets available. I shall send my man to Delhi, and he'll arrange everything about books supplying and so on.

Prabhupāda: How much you have got?

Vrindavan De: Pardon?

Brahmānanda: How much you have got?

Vrindavan De: That money? Or that...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally how much cash do you have?

Vrindavan De: Cash? At present? Only ten thousand, eight thousand or nine thousand, something like that.

Prabhupāda: So arrange to give him that 47,000.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's 43,200. But I mean...

Vrindavan De: No, you'll get the money back by tenth or fifteenth April. It's no problem at all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's not the point. The problem is that how we can get... I don't know if this... I mean I'll do it, but I'm thinking that we're jeopardizing our position as a... I mean, we're not a... This money is not a privately owned money.

Prabhupāda: No, no, the Society cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can the Society give money to a private business? It's not done.

Vrindavan De: No, it is just a temporary... (Bengali with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: What is in my private account?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Śrīla Prabhupāda, according to your affidavit, there is no private accounts. Once we take it as a private account again, then the whole position of the affidavit has no meaning. I mean, I really think that Vrindavan has to... I just think he has to arrange these businesses on his own. I don't think that he can... He can use the money that's given as a stipend. He can use this postal money receipts. But if he has to take money from the Society for private business, it's not at all going to be acceptable to the Charity Commission. It makes us look very suspicious that we're giving money to individuals.

Prabhupāda: So this 43,000 can be given, because it is not Society's money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's not come in our accounts, so it can be given definitely.

Prabhupāda: So this much you can do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I fully agree. And I have no objection to giving one lakh. But I'm speaking from a legal point of view. It will injure us, and I don't want to be injured.

Vrindavan De: No, I can spare some little amount of interest. I can pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's more jeopardizing. We can't charge interest. We cannot make profit on money loaned out, as a Society. It goes against the laws of India. That's the whole point. Even if we gave it in any way, it's jeopardizing.

Vrindavan De: But you can put it easily on donation account, that charge interest.

Prabhupāda: No, Overseas Bank they can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Overseas Bank, they can give?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On what basis?

Prabhupāda: Against their money. (break) You are depositing some money with the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've already deposited money with them.

Prabhupāda: So against that, they can give. Bank can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can write a letter to Girirāja. It will take some time. Vrindavan will have to go to Bombay for this if he wants to negotiate this loan. The loan has to be between the bank and him, not between our Society and the bank. That's my point. It's his private business. It has to be kept on a basis like that. Otherwise it's... If the bank... Girirāja may help them. Now we've given the bank instruction that five persons... See, one thing is that all... (break) This... If you think this arrangement suitable, then give them...

Vrindavan De: It is, moreover, a prestigious issue to us. And we have already committed them that we are able to supply, although we don't have any sufficient money. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I think, based upon this scheme...

Vrindavan De: And that's why I sent my man twice to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, but Prabhupāda was not... We never saw your man. He missed us. He missed both times.

Vrindavan De: When he came here, Prabhupāda had already left for London. And when my man went to Bombay, already left for Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: But in business field, if the bank sees that you have got fifty percent, they will advance. If you have got fifty percent, any transaction, you want to do some business...

Vrindavan De: One thing, Tamāla, you know, I would like to have Prabhupāda's car for the time being.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda said you had to pay five thousand rupees to BBT. That you haven't done.

Vrindavan De: After paying of this amount the car may be arranged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But first of all you have to pay the money.

Vrindavan De: All right, I will... (Bengali )

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We already told you that if you paid that money, Prabhupāda said then you can have the use of the car. But they have not received that money from you. I mean, actually, the fact of the matter is that you have got a 25,000 rupee bill outstanding, which you have not hardly paid anything for in over a year. Now, from the point of view of business, this is not very good business.

Vrindavan De: I received a letter from Prabhupāda a couple of month ago that the amount which is due from us to BBT, that amount should be adjusted through order, which Gargamuni...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Actually if you read the letter carefully you'll see that Prabhupāda pointed out that the amount that you would get on credit from Gargamuni was equal to the amount of your bill. He didn't say that it would be adjusted. I have a copy of the letter. It doesn't say that it will be adjusted against that.

Vrindavan De: No. Prabhupāda advised Gargamuni to pay interest in our favor to the BBT account to clear out our plea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far I... I know it's being paid to your account.

Vrindavan De: That is why I have not sent any money to BBT. Anyway, I'm arranging to pay BBT immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some money should be paid. I mean 25,000 rupees' books were taken, and no money was received. Very little money was received. I mean, I think to establish credibility some money should be paid. It's only right. The BBT has supplied books. Some money should come back. Otherwise there's a feeling that it's a very one-way business—simply books go out and no money ever is coming in. I think that from your side there should be some... Prabhupāda's only point with the car was to get you to give some money towards the BBT. That was the whole point. Otherwise he could give you the use of the car right away, but he wanted to encourage you that some money should be given to the BBT. The car is there in Māyāpur.

Vrindavan De: I shall send three thousand rupees, as I have committed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you send five thousand, then take the car.

Vrindavan De: At present I have arranged to pay BBT immediately three thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good.

Vrindavan De: But I must get the confirmation. Otherwise he is not ready to deliver the car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I told the BBT that they should write you as soon as they receive five thousand rupees.

Mādhava: (indistinct) the car is there.

Vrindavan De: I must have some letters. On the strength of the letters I can leave.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What letters?

Vrindavan De: That "Please allow the car to Prabhupāda's son."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The letter is already there. I've sent him a letter with... I sent the letter, so he knows that. The letter is there. But they have to receive five thousand rupees from you, and then they'll release the car.

Vrindavan De: Because if the confirmation of the amount received by mail reaches very late, the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you have not sent the money, Vrindavan. So why you're worried about the letter reaching late? First of all send the money, then worry about it. There's no worry. Once you send the money, the letter will come. I don't think that you can doubt that the letter will come. The main point is that the money has to come first. You have no reason to suppose that the letter will be delayed. It will come. They already know it. As soon as they receive five thousand rupees, the BBT, Bombay, will immediately inform Māyāpur, "Five thousand rupees been received. The car may be given." They know that. It's set up. It's a set-up. And you have to live up to your side to pay the five thousand rupees. It's not very much. It's not that much.

Prabhupāda: Now, with the help of Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and... Who else? Chandra. You can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take this order, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if the bank sees that you have got fifty percent, they will advance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Especially with the presentation of the bill. Against the bill...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...they'll put it out. The bill should be approved by the company that's ordering the books. The government should certify the bill that "We've accepted this bill." Oh, the bank will immediately issue money. They're going to make interest.

Prabhupāda: So with cooperation of Tamāla and... Who else?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chandra.

Prabhupāda: Chandra. And with your intelligence you can manage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You have to apply your intelligence to this. It's no doubt you're going to have to work hard to get this money. But otherwise where is any business successful unless there's endeavor? The money is there. It's a fact you'll have to work for it. That's a fact. I can see that. It's not completely simple, but it's there. Good business, it can be gotten.

Prabhupāda: So you can return immediately with the certificate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think you should do that. Should not lose time now.

Prabhupāda: And Chandra there and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you need from here, I will help you. As far as I can do, any letters or anything I can give you, I am prepared to do. And I can give you the counterfoils, and I'll also give him the safe custody receipt.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be further help. I mean, with presentation of these, this shows that you have position to demand this money.

Prabhupāda: When the bank collects, the post office will not have any objection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact. Whatever the bank... If the bank takes money, the post office will pay as the bank orders.

Vrindavan De: But is it possible to...? In case those counterfoils... It is only mentioned in the one line.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't.

Vrindavan De: Bank will not accept it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda said it doesn't matter.

Vrindavan De: Doesn't matter?

Prabhupāda: Post office should be satisfied. They have paid to the bank, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And how will the bank pay to him alone?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will the bank pay to Vrindavan Chandra alone and not the others?

Vrindavan De: Hmm, this is the question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I will write a letter?

Vrindavan De: I write Vrindavan Chandra or Vrinda Book Company or whatever it may be, I don't think that bank will make it encashed to Vrindavan Company. It will be troublesome thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it won't be troublesome. The best thing... We can't, though. The best thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda—I will give a letter informing the bank to make payment to Vrindavan Chandra alone. Beyond that, I will also immediately write another of the same letter with my signature and get Girirāja's signature, and I will, at the same time, give Vrindavan Chandra a copy of the power of attorney, so that first of all you'll have my letter... Just like this: if Prabhupāda were to sign a letter to the bank to pay all the money to you, will they pay it to you? Definitely. Right? So he's given power of attorney jointly to myself and Girirāja in Bombay. Since I... I will sign one letter just myself, and you try and work on that letter. And I'll give you a copy of the power of attorney. At the same time I'll send the exact same letter, but with a place for Girirāja also to sign. Means it will reach Calcutta another four or five days after you reach.

Vrindavan De: For the accounts being offered by Prabhupāda? So bank will accept the signature, only those who operates the account.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Exactly. But Prabhupāda has given power of attorney to operate all accounts to myself and Girirāja jointly. That's what I'm saying. I'll give you a copy of the power of attorney, notarized copy, and I'll give you a letter, stating to the bank that all of the money should be paid to your Vrinda Book Company. You follow?

Vrindavan De: Not to me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. To Vrinda Book Company. And I'll get that letter signed by Girirāja also. The fact is, you don't need that letter before the seventh of November, because that's when the payment has to be made. You follow? There's plenty of time. There's ten days' time. For me to give a letter... The letter will be taken to Delhi. It will reach Bombay on Monday. Definitely. I'll send it by QMS. They'll send it to Calcutta by QMS. It will reach by Tuesday. It will reach by the first, second or third of the month.

Vrindavan De: Tuesday evening possibly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By the second or third of the month it will reach. Plenty of time for you to act on it.

Vrindavan De: I should be back by third or fourth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You should be back as soon as possible to start working on this. If I were you, I would not lose time. I would act quickly on it. And from our side, I'm sure this will work. I guarantee it will work.

Vrindavan De: If it works, then we have no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It must work, because they have to honor the power of attorney. I'll give you the copy of the power of attorney. It's completely bona fide.

Vrindavan De: You arrange everything, write down all these and signing, put your signature on the letters?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I'll do that.

Vrindavan De: But I may not come back within a very short time, if I have to come within a month. For this work I may not find out any time to come over here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you won't have to come back for this business. This business will be done properly.

Vrindavan De: But I must see my father, after all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That you may come every day. But from this business, this will work. We'll give a letter to the bank...

Vrindavan De: For the little later the work should not be hampered. I want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it won't be hampered.

Prabhupāda: You give me. He'll go.(?)

Vrindavan De: Because I came, spending so many money...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it won't be hampered. I promise.

Vrindavan De: I came by air-conditioned chair car. Took a hundred rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I'll pay you back that. You don't have to be... That money we'll always pay you. Whenever you want to visit.

Vrindavan De: Will you be able to arrange a ticket for third or fourth? Because I asked Ramesh. He told me that better to ask...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I don't advise you to arrange for third or fourth. I tell you that you should go back as soon as possible and begin to work on this.

Devotee: Not to lose time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What will be benefit by...

Vrindavan De: If I get it on second. Because tomorrow's ticket may not be available or day after.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us see what I can arrange. How you want to go? By Toofan?

Vrindavan De: Yes. That can be... But I was feeling most uneasy in the air-conditioned chair car, because the outside climate was very cold, and inside was very cold the whole night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Toofan would be better? Kalka Mail is better.

Vrindavan De: Kalka from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So?

Vrindavan De: Then where should I stay in the night? It leaves at eight o'clock in the morning, Kalka.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stay at our temple.

Vrindavan De: Toofan is better I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If available.

Vrindavan De: As this Mail from here, Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So where to get the...? I don't want to get the tickets from Mathurā. I want to get the tickets from Delhi. That is my point. I will arrange to purchase a ticket from Delhi.

Vrindavan De: But where can I stay in the night?

Prabhupāda: Or you can go by plane. We shall pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. His only point is where he will stay at night. But I'm telling him he can stay in our Delhi center very comfortably. See, if we get the tickets from Delhi I can arrange... There's no... The main thing is I want to purchase the ticket originating in Delhi. Then you have a confirmed reservation.

Vrindavan De: Because a Deluxe leaves in the afternoon. That would be better.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Deluxe from Delhi. So it passes by Tundla. So you can pick it up there. You don't even have to go all the way to Delhi.

Vrindavan De: No, if I can start in the morning I can reach by two or three o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But even if you have to go in the morning from Delhi, I can arrange for your accommodation in Delhi very nicely. My letter to them will give you very good accommodation in Delhi center, very comfortable. You're not inconvenienced here. You're staying overnight here.

Prabhupāda: You can return to Delhi in the after...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, because I know you can get reservations immediately to go to Calcutta from Delhi. (aside:) You were just there. You know that. Because there's so many trains going, Delhi-Calcutta, and if you purchase the ticket here or if you purchase the ticket from Mathurā you'll wait ten days. Remember how we had to wait?

Vrindavan De: Last time I paid ten rupees as bribe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And even then we couldn't get immediately. But in Delhi we can get it immediately. Especially with foreign quota, it's very easy. They give immediately ticket. You can get the same night. So I'll arrange that.

Vrindavan De: So I can go to Delhi day after tomorrow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Like that. I'll arrange, and I'll give you a letter. You go... In any case, you go to the Delhi temple. Today itself...

Vrindavan De: I don't know the place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll give you all details. And I'll make all of the arrangements for you to be able to go. Today itself we'll purchase the ticket, and then they'll telephone us what day the ticket is for. That's not difficult. I'll send a man also. Did you have your bath yet?

Vrindavan De: Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've got a room yet?

Vrindavan De: Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'm going to arrange for his room and everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali to devotee) Somebody has arrived on thirteeth from Bombay?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To where?

Vrindavan De: To Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirteenth...

Vrindavan De: Thirteenth of October?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirtieth October someone is coming?

Vrindavan De: Thirteenth. Thirteenth

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your man, you mean?

Vrindavan De: My man met with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali) Because my man arrived on fourth, and he came back on sixth, because down journey was already booked from Calcutta. He delivered some fruits or something to your devotee in Bombay. I don't think that... There is a list...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we never got. I don't think we got.

Vrindavan De: And we have also sent some letter with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Never received?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Letter I think we received. We got a lot of letters from you. None of them were replied because of Prabhupāda's health.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I got seven or eight letters from you.

Vrindavan De: There was no tickets available before tenth or eleventh November.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To where?

Vrindavan De: To..., by Toofan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Toofan is hopeless.

Vrindavan De: Even by Kalka.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but we'll get from Delhi side. That was pūjā time.

Vrindavan De: First I got a ticket on thirtieth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If I don't get the ticket by train, then I'll book a plane ticket.

Vrindavan: Train is more (indistinct). And I'm not a man of that position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Let us see. If necessary we'll... In any case, we're paying for your..., always, whenever you come to see Prabhupāda. So let us first try for train, and if we see that...

Prabhupāda: That we can pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we see that there's no trains available, then we'll book a plane.

Prabhupāda: Or you can book a plane, accordingly. You can return immediately.

Vrindavan De: So you complete all this...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll do everything.

Vrindavan De: I can send a telgram to Calcutta....

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You send your telegram.

Vrindavan De: ...tomorrow confirming him to... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I consider him as a Godbrother.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You wrote in your book that the spiritual master's family, former family, should be considered in a reverential way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. No, when I write him a letter I say, "Please accept my humble obeisances." So I write him as a Godbrother. He also writes to me like that.

Prabhupāda: So do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Śatadhanya: ...was present there also, so he can confirm that we spoke with him and he...

Prabhupāda: No, "Confirmed," "I approached" and "He has spoken"—these things are going on. These things are paid.(?) Everything is lost. You talked personally with him, and he said that he's very responsible, and he's...

Śatadhanya: He's proved responsible in the past.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śatadhanya: In the past he has always been responsible.

Prabhupāda: What can I do?

Śatadhanya: Sometimes it's not possible also to get a flight. Sometimes it's full.

Prabhupāda: You are simply suggesting. Actually...

Śatadhanya: Actually we don't know why he has not yet come.

Prabhupāda: And you said that you talked with him personally.

Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Did you?

Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You talked personally; he was going in the morning; and where is?

Śatadhanya: Yes, he said he was immediately going. He said he was going to immediately go and see that kavirāja and ask him to come and then get on the first plane he could get. That's what he said. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Śatadhanya: That's Haṁsadūta.

Mādhava: We can begin the bath now, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupāda's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." I don't know how... He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.

Prabhupāda: No, I expect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I got a good feeling this time, today, from speaking with him is that I feel very confident about our dealings together. I found that they have no mischievous plan. They're simple. And that relaxed my mind a lot when I saw that. If anything, they're a little worried that they won't get a monthly amount. I said, "Don't worry about that." I think also that he'll keep his word, means that if some agreement... Just like if I said to him that "When the business becomes better, you may pay the other members," I think they'll live up to whatever the word is, you know, because they're always afraid that they may not get the monthly amount.

Prabhupāda: Guide them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They are simple people. That's the feeling I got today. So I'll pay him whatever he expended for coming here, plus his airfare to go back to Calcutta. And probably I'll suggest that he leave tomorrow. He wanted to spend more time, but I told him that "Now you should do this business, and don't delay now. This is not the time to take extra time. You can come back later on." Pisimā's son's name is Chandra? Hmm. Bhakti-caru has his address. Is the diarrhea more or less stopped now?

Upendra: He hasn't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Passed any stool?

Upendra: That one in the morning was only...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little, little.

Upendra: Little, like Bhakti-caru said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, tonight you have not passed anything. Then you try to take something, drinking something.

Prabhupāda: I'm drinking something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not very much today.

Prabhupāda: How can I drink very much?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's relative, I mean to say. Just like you can drink up to a thousand cc's in a day. Today probably there hasn't been so much, I can see. Today has been only about 300 that you drank. So I'm just saying that better to take it easy today. But by tonight, if everything is all right...

Prabhupāda: Means there will be stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That was only when you were taking that medicine.

Prabhupāda: Now the bowel is loose, whatever I will take, it will go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. You can feel that it's still loose. How long will it remain like that?

Prabhupāda: How can I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. You can feel that it's loose. That's different. Isn't there some... I know that like sometimes if I have this problem, there's certain things that one can take which make it..., the bowel tightened up. Like I know I would take sometimes rice and plantain. It wouldn't have a good effect?

Prabhupāda: Rice I cannot touch even. If I hear about rice, any solid food, immediately...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vomiting tendency. Hmm. Then fasting?

Prabhupāda: What can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The bowels should become tighter after a day or two. It shouldn't remain loose for so many days. I mean, surely it must get tighter. The medicine caused it to become like this.

Prabhupāda: So he's taking the certificate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When he goes I'll give it to him. He'll take the certificates, and I'll dictate a letter. I'll write a letter to the bank, which I'll send to Bombay for Girirāja's signature. I'll also give him a copy of the notary of the power of attorney. So with all of these documents... He has sufficient time. It's only on the seventh of November that it comes due. With Chandra's help, he can get everything. Then it's up to him to negotiate with the bank for the loan. I don't think I should do that for him. I'm a sannyāsī. If I have to start doing his business for him... I don't think you would want me to do that, do you?

Prabhupāda: No, to help him... If he can get some...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe he should try to get the loan through the Central Bank, Camac Street. They might be more inclined. They know he's, I think, connected with Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: You have got some Central Bank passbooks?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Central Bank passbooks. I don't know if I have one with us. It may be in Bombay or Calcutta. Just the fact that that bank is familiar with us.

Prabhupāda: They have to see where there is account money. I cannot remember.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, I've got it... I mean I'm doing good on this. You mean just in general to keep everything properly. Is that what you mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean generally to keep everything in order. Yes, I have a very good hold on it. Some things... You know, because formerly they never kept these things down. Now I'm finding out things. But whenever I get extra information, I note it. Pretty much I have all of the things in order. Just like now I just found out for the first time that he's getting a monthly interest from one of the fixed deposits in the name of BBT. That was never noted. So when I find out the amount, I'll just note it. Then I can deduct it each month from the account that I'm keeping. Like that, sometimes I get new information.

Prabhupāda: So you have to search out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I've actually been doing that. And I've also been checking whenever they give interest that it's exactly the right amount. I make sure each year they credit the interest, keeping watch carefully of the fixed deposits to see when they come matured, like that.

Prabhupāda: Only thing is that M. M. De and Sulakshmana, they should not be given more than twelve...(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The only thing is about M. M. De? I've just dictated a letter to the Central Bank of India. I'm going to send this letter to Girirāja, that...

Prabhupāda: He has become Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're giving him no..., 250 now, but 750 is put in fixed deposit for him. The total is a thousand rupees he's getting. He only gets 250. But the other part is put into fixed deposit for seven years. I don't want to change that letter to the bank, because we've given it as a standing order now.

Prabhupāda: He can simply get...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two-fifty.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all that any of them get right now. And the rest goes into fixed deposit.

Prabhupāda: And they may remain, lifetime.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Provided they don't squander it. If they squander, then it will go to the Charity. And now it's very easy for me to check up once a year. I'll just see how they have used the money. They'll have to show me that it's invested somehow. And if they can't show me, then I'll threaten them that "If you don't change this... You must change it. Otherwise the money will be given to charity." And they'll do it. If they use it for investing, then the interest they make in investment, that they can do anything they want with.

Prabhupāda: So what about this kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya just placed a lightning call to Delhi to see if they've heard anything. Otherwise, if he doesn't hear anything, he may have to go to Calcutta himself. One thing is that I did not expect that within... You know, as we called this morning, I did not expect that the man would come here by this afternoon. I mean, a thing like this has to take a least a day's time, minimum. The man has to be informed...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Whether actually any talk was there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Jayapatākā... The original message came from Jayapatākā to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa in Delhi, and he said that he had personally, so far Gopāla told me that this was coming from Jayapatākā, that Jayapatākā told him...

Prabhupāda: Where is Gopāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in Bombay. He's gone to Bombay. I mean, we'll know... Personally, I think that within a day's time you'll know everything about this kavirāja. If there's no such thing, then you'll know that. If there is, you'll either see him here or you'll get news of when he's coming. Or you may get news that there's no way he can come; we have to come there. But I think within a day's time you'll get the news.

Prabhupāda: No, this boy Śatadhanya, he said, "I have personally talked. He is very responsible."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Adri-dhāraṇa. He personal... Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But what kind of responsible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I don't think it's irresponsible. This is still too early to be expecting that we would definitely have heard anything. Sometimes... There's so many reasons why it would take this long to even contact the man. Supposing the man has gone out of the city for a day. It's entirely possible. I mean, naturally, because you're ill, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're feeling, you know, immediately to want news of it. (pause) Do you think that this M.M. would try to cause any trouble in the future? Or is he so useless that he won't do that even?

Prabhupāda: He has taken power of attorney from his mother. I think whatever money is going to his mother...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He uses. He can control. But apart from that, he can't do much more.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But one thing is that the account which is..., the money is going into for his mother, is operated jointly by Vrindavan. So I think that's a safeguard. And now with this amendment, if they don't use the money properly, they won't get it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they'll have to use it properly. So I'd better continue to write some of these letters, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That way I can get him to expedite his business. I'll be in the next room, in the office. (break) What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is going on?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is going on right now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not too much. I was just writing some notes down. I finished my correspondence. Others are chanting japa, doing kīrtana here.

Prabhupāda: The kavirāja has not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not so far, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Śatadhanya Mahārāja got information that they had left for Delhi on the plane at about noontime, which means they would have arrived about three o'clock in Delhi. So it's now 6:30, 6:25, which would mean that they should be here very shortly.

Prabhupāda: So they have arrived?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if they got on the plane they should have arrived.

Prabhupāda: What is time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the time now? About 6:25. Do you think you passed stool again, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I do not know. Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra is checking.

Prabhupāda: What is going on outside?

Trivikrama: Ārati just... Nanda-kumāra just came.

Upendra: I can't see what is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra couldn't tell. Are you feeling tired still?

Prabhupāda: You are not bringing the kavirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he hasn't come yet, no, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think that if he comes any moment, it will have been very, very quick that he came. I mean actually...

Prabhupāda: If not, so that means hopeless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us wait, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because he should be here very shortly. I mean it's actually miraculous how quickly everything was done, how we were able to call Calcutta in the middle of the night, how Adri-dhāraṇa was able to get the man and bring him on a train..., plane, by noontime, how we again were able to reach Calcutta on the telephone and get this information. So far, it appears that everything is very quickly being done. So we just have to be a little..., you know. We have to be a little bit patient. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Do you think I shall die very quickly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Do you think I shall die very quick?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I don't think you shall die.

Prabhupāda: I wanted that kavirāja last night, so he was not possible?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja from Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You wanted him? So he's coming.

Prabhupāda: When he's coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's supposed to be here any moment, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (whispering with Bhakti-caru) Hmm. I'll check my schedule.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru Mahārāja suggested that they may have taken the hopping flight from Calcutta, which stops in about three different places. I can just see my airline... I don't have an up-to-date airline schedule, but even the one I have might indicate the afternoon flight. Shall I see it?

Prabhupāda: Everything is theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not really, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's not all theory. We spoke with the man. He went out and got the kavirāja. When we again called Calcutta we were informed that they had left on the plane. I mean there's no reason to suspect that people are lying to us, our own Godbrothers are lying to us. I mean it's so close to the time when they should arrive that we shouldn't become discouraged. I mean right now we could send Śatadhanya Mahārāja to Calcutta, but it would be very bad to do that, because the kavirāja may be five miles out of Vṛndāvana right now. Or he may have just reached Delhi if he came on this propeller plane. We have every reason to believe that he'll be here at any moment. We have no reason to feel that he shouldn't come.

Bhavānanda: He's definitely in transit, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing at all to lead us to feel dismayed that they haven't..., he hasn't contact... For example... I mean we got the call through to Calcutta by 2:30, and they said that he got the kavirāja and they got on the plane and left. That's very, very positive information. I mean, imagine if someone had picked up the phone in Calcutta and said, "I don't know," or "He couldn't find the kavirāja." But they said, "He got the kavirāja and they got on the plane." That's very, very positive information. (pause) Maybe we should read a little bit. That will be a good diversion now.

Prabhupāda: What you'll read?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the other night... I mean we could read Bhāg... I'm always eager for you to hear Bhāgavatam. I mean, I wanted to call... I always like to call Pradyumna and Jayādvaita. Of course, that requires... If you wanted to translate, you could make the effort. Otherwise Jayādvaita could read some of the edited work.

Bhakti-caru: He went to Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhakti-caru: He went to Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that Jayādvaita went to Delhi today. Why? (quietly) Irresponsible. He goes. He didn't even tell me. (break) ...read Kṛṣṇa book, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (break)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: So you have not given him letters?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: The necessary letters, you have not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he won't be able to... The letter will be signed by Girirāja and then sent to you. But the necessary other things I will give you. All the necessary things will be given.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you give him? Why...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm? Give him right now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the use of its sitting here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of his sitting here?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of its sitting here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I can give him just now. Shall I bring? I have it in my almirah. I was going to give it to him tomorrow, after I showed him the letter and explained everything. I've dictated a letter.

Prabhupāda: And if he has got business, why he should remain here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I also felt that he should expedite his journey. He should go as soon as possible. Actually, I have everything that I need to give him I can give him right now—the letter which will be sent to the bank, and I'll be sending...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: He wants to return as quickly as possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I personally felt you could go tomorrow even, 'cause I thought that you could actually... I think the earlier you get back to Calcutta the better. But his idea was to leave Sunday, I think.

Vrindavan De: Sunday, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today is Friday. So he wanted to leave the day after tomorrow. Otherwise everything is ready for him to go whenever he wants it.

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the certificates?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I bring them? The certificates are with the bank, but we have the counterfoil identity slips.

Prabhupāda: So give him. Let him go away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just now?

Prabhupāda: I said now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali, asks about Pisimā)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I turn on a light, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the certificates are lying with the bank. And I'm writing a letter to the bank informing them to take collection...

Prabhupāda: Give me... Straight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Upendra) Make Prabhupāda straight. He wants to be up straight. Lift that leg up on the pillow. Okay, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Lift him from the center. It's not so much from here; it's there. That's it. (to Vrindavan:) So the certificates are lying with the bank, and I've written them a letter that they should take collection, the bank should take collection from the post office directly, and that after taking collection, the full amount of money should be transferred to your account, Vrinda Book Company, care of United Bank. We're making the payment to his company, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The account number?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't have the account number, but he has the name of the account and the ledger page and the bank and the address of the bank, which I think is sufficient.

Vrindavan De: That is enough, I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually, even without the account number, if you have the name of the account it's sufficient.

Vrindavan De: Name, "Number 11," that's enough for account.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then I've also informed them in the letter that the proprietor of the company—and I mentioned your name—that we have given you the counterfoil identity slips and also that we have given you the receipt for the safe custody. These certificates were kept in safe custody, so we're giving you the receipt, because it says that in order for these... Of course, the bank can do everything, but you can deliver these identity slips and the safe custody receipt to the bank.

Vrindavan De: To my banker?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, not to your banker; to Prabhupāda's bank, the Bank of Baroda. Then I also mentioned that I am enclosing a copy of the power of attorney, that "Prabhupāda has been ill, so he has difficulty in signing, and he has duly empowered the following two persons." And that power of attorney also will be sent to them. So I'm also going to write a letter to Chandra requesting him to give Vrindavan help, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So he will carry all these letters.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what he's going to do... Today I'm giving you... And I explained to Vrindavan, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that originally these receipts, these postal receipts, were meant for all of the five former family members, but as he's doing business now and he requires some money, that Your Divine Grace is giving him this money as a good chance. And I said that he should utilize it to develop the business. And in the future, when there is sufficient money, he may pay to the individuals the amount that they would have gotten from these postal receipts. But first of all use it and develop the business. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: It will be success...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So these are the receipts. They're not actually the certificates themselves, but they're... As you can see, it's called an identity slip. I'll just take one and read it to you. As it's mentioned... It's mentioned on the N.B., on the back side. "N.B. This slip may not be surrendered to the post office when the holder discharges only some of the certificates held by him, but must be handed over when all the certificates detailed in the slip have been cashed." So the bank will want these. So you can hand them over, you take a receipt from them, that "These were given by Vrindavan Chandra De to you," like that. That's one I'm giving you.

Vrindavan De: Shall I give it to my banker? This? Or to Bank of Baroda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. You give it to Bank of Baroda.

Vrindavan De: In Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Vrindavan De: Ācchā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You give it to Bank of Baroda.

Prabhupāda: Take Chandra with you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take Chandra. Really, you should take his help for the whole thing. He can definitely be of help. Now, the other thing I'm giving you is the receipt for safe custody. Actually, because we're doing everything through the bank, neither of these are actually required. But it will be further proof of your bona fide by showing here you are with these things. Then obviously you're the correct person. It just further identifies you. Otherwise how could you get these things.

Vrindavan De: I should give them to the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you can give them... They may not even ask for them, but you can show them: "I have these. Do you require them?" If they say yes, then you take a receipt from them.

Vrindavan De: Then I should be duly authorized to hand over.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's already in the letter. The letter authorizes you that you are having these. That's pretty much all we could give him at this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The letter will be going to the bank, with a copy sent to him at his business address. And that should be coming to you, I would think, by the fourth, something like that.

Vrindavan De: Fourth. I shall be in Calcutta at that time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But in the meantime, on Monday, you should approach your bankers...

Vrindavan De: My bankers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and explain to them that you're going to have fifty thousand rupees, and against this you want a further loan of fifty thousand rupees against the bill, which you can show them. And if they require it, you can arrange for the person who's paying to make direct payment to them, including interest.

Vrindavan De: Ācchā. To my banker.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then how can they object? You see? Especially because the person is the government of India. If it were another party, they might say, "Well, we want some guarantee." But no one will ask for guarantee from the National Library. So like that, you can make a nice arrangement. And we figured out, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he's going to make about twelve to fifteen thousand profit... (break) (end)