771025 - Conversation B - Vrndavana
Pradyumna: In this verse it describes that he looked around, and then he saw Vṛndāvana as it actually was. But first I need the Bengali . . . (break) . . .tat kanat cat(?) . . .
Prabhupāda: Ta boli tu(?). Ah . . .
Pradyumna: Sarva ritu śuka dayā.
Prabhupāda: Śuka dayā. The trees and vegetables, they are essential. All the years . . . Hmm. Śuka dayā. Happily living(?). (break) Equally, the . . . in all seasons, change. That is the arrangement in Vṛndāvana. Not that in this season it is pleasing and in the other season it is not pleasing. It is equally pleasant according to seasonal changes. That you can show. And the means of livelihood. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4).
Pradyumna: That janājīvya-drumākīrṇam.
Prabhupāda: Means of livelihood. It is recommended for everyone: trees, vegetables—that is his real means of livelihood, not this industry. Trees, vegetables, they are the real means of life, equally, in all seasons.
Pradyumna: Text 60. It is a very wonderful verse. Sa sekhāne(?) . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: This is a specific qualification of Vṛndāvana. Vana means forest. We are afraid of forest. You do not wish to go. But in Vṛndāvana the forest animals, they are as good as demigods. They have no envy. Even in this material world in the forest the animals live together. When they go for drinking water they do not attack anyone. You know that? Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw this in Africa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At a waterhole there were many wild animals, but they were all drinking together at the waterhole.
Prabhupāda: So this enviousness developed on account of sense gratification, whereas in Vṛndāvana there is no sense gratification; there is only aim: Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. Therefore these things: enviousness, malice, advent. Even in this material world the animals, they are not envious of sādhus who live there. They're like cats and dogs. The sādhus, they keep cows and supply milk to the tigers. They ask, "You come and take little milk? Yes?" So these things are unknown in Vṛndāvana. That is the difference between ordinary vana and Vṛndāvana. We are horrified by hearing the name of vana, forest, but in Vṛndāvana there is no such horror. Everyone is happy by pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Either he is tiger or ferocious animal or gosvāmī, the business is the same—how to please Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: This is Vṛndāvana. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You may remember also when we were at that farm we saw the cats and dogs playing together. You remember?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that a similar case?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very good example. Everyone is happy. The cow is happy, the cat is happy, the dog is happy, the man is happy—everyone. (break) . . .right. Everyone wants to serve Kṛṣṇa in different capacity, but there is no envy. In Māyāpur we are begging all over the world, giving them food, and they are attacking. Just see. This is material world. They do not feel even obligation, that "These people are working for us, giving us culture, giving us food, giving us character." That South Indian paper, appreciation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: South Africa.
Prabhupāda: What is that? They have printed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Shall I . . .?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I should get it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them hear.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this South African newspaper it was stated: “All the devotees here are very active in the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the results are obvious to see. Happiness . . ."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Happiness, good health, peace of mind and the development of all good qualities."
Prabhupāda: This is Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means this. Normal, happiness. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad (SB 5.18.12). Happiness cannot be without Kṛṣṇa consciousness—impossible. They are simply struggling, but there is no happiness. They are trying to give to the human society this status of life: happiness, good character . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good health.
Prabhupāda: Good health, God consciousness.
Pradyumna: The tigers in Vṛndāvana, what if . . . in what capacity do they do sevā to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: They are also devotees. Hmm. (break) But in Vṛndāvana you will find that the monkeys are allowed to take butter. Kṛṣṇa is distributing. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe the problem is we are not feeding them enough butter, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: We are surely . . . Everyone has right to live. One should not check. That is demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa personally. This is Vṛndāvana life. Why I shall live and you shall die? No. Whatever is given by Kṛṣṇa, let us eat, divide prasādam. This is Vṛndāvana life. Not that I live; you die. That is material life. (break) Eventually it will level up with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It cannot be done all of a sudden, and that is called sad-guṇāḥ(?), how to come to this platform. Hmm. (break)
Pradyumna: This verse describes how Brahmā saw Kṛṣṇa just as He was in Vṛndāvana, without any aiśvarya. He saw Him as Brahmā. He says . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality of Godhead without any demonstration of opulence, just like innocent boy with some foodstuff in hand. He was loitering with cowherd boyfriends, calves and cows. Hmm. (break) That is there?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's another name is Gopal, "one who maintains the cows." Here is the picture.
Jayadvaita: That word paśu-pāḥ, that means the one who maintains cows. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .full of unlimited knowledge.
Pradyumna: Pūrṇa jñāna māyām.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Unlimited, yes. You cannot touch where it ends. Just like you cannot measure the ocean. Agādha, immeasurable water, such vast water. What is our intelligence? In the mid . . . when I was passing in the midst of the ocean, what insignificance the ship was—nothing, tilting like a matchbox. That is also not compare. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, opulence, agādha—you cannot imagine how far. The best thing is to surrender; don't try to measure Kṛṣṇa. (break) I am very much pleased. (break) . . .sincere, everyone's got some power(?). What is that verse? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādausvayam eva sphuraty . . . (CC Madhya 17.136) Everyone, when they want to serve Kṛṣṇa, he becomes qualified in all respects. And without Kṛṣṇa consciousness there cannot be any qualification. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad . . . (SB 5.18.12). The so-called qualified men in the material world are useless. The only qualification is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hmm.
- yasya deve parā bhaktir
- yathā deve tathā gurau
- (ŚU 6.23)
This puts them(?), the Vedic knowledge, becomes abley, qualified. Hmm? Is there more?
Pradyumna: . . . (indistinct) . . .
Prabhupāda: Brahmā could not see that Kṛṣṇa is catur-bhuja Nārāyaṇa, had demonstrated opulence. He simply saw an innocent boy loitering, but he could understand that He is the same person. Without any demonstration of power he could understand that "Here is the Supreme Person." People generally do not appreciate somebody unless he shows something wonderful. But here Kṛṣṇa did not manifest anything wonderful, but Brahmā could understand, "The same wonderful person is here that I thought He was a child with a morsel of food in His hand." This is Brahmā's realization: govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi, "You are the Original Person, cause of everything. I bow down." Tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. This is his realization. That is wanted.
- advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
- ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
- vedeṣu durlabham
- (BS 5.33)
You cannot search out Kṛṣṇa by Vedic knowledge or by this realization. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau. But when you become devotee, you will realize everything. Above all, become devotee. In the beginning he was proud of becoming Brahmā, the lord of the universe, and now he understood the real Lord of the universe, and simply as an insignificant agent, so: govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi, the Brahmā-saṁhitā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness Movement, is very opulent show, but in the early days when you first came to America there was no big Movement, and still your first disciples, they were attracted to you. Even though there was no big show of opulence yet, in the form of ISKCON, still they were very much attracted to you, and you have always shown so much affection for those disciples that even though there was no big display of any kind in ISKCON, still they were very sincerely serving you and attracted to you.
Prabhupāda: That's what helped us to spread this Movement. Hmm. (break) Continue.
Pradyumna: Brahmā was . . . er . . . Kṛṣṇa was playing like a nāṭya, like some drama or some play, like a dramatist. Brahmā was niṭyābhimānam(?). Brahmā was . . . had some false prestige, and some, er, that he was higher than Kṛṣṇa. So to show to Brahmā as if he, as if Brahmā had some power, he says, mat prabhor māyā-mohita eva: "My Lord has been illusioned by me." Brahmā was thinking like this, so he showed śad baleva(?) . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: Brahmā came to see Kṛṣṇa in Dvārakā, and He asked "Which Brahmā?" He was astonished, that "Except me there is another Brahmā? Ask Him who is Brahmā.” So the doorman informed, "It is four-headed Brahmā." "Oh, four-headed. (chuckles) Call others; show him." This is Kṛṣṇa's position. Four-headed is insignificant. And just like these scientists, four-headed, they are thinking this planet is full of opulence; others are vacant. This is their knowledge—simply speculating: "This is the only planet . . ." Whereas Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam admits all the universe, everywhere ākīrṇe, full of living entities. So this is their folly. They do not know anything; still they are presenting as philosopher, scientist, man of knowledge. . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)
Pradyumna: . . .bhyam, one without a second. He says darśita nāma . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: On account of being overcast with Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Acintya-adbhayam(?).
Pradyumna: . . . (indistinct) . . . One without a second.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is . . . Here everyone in the material world is thinking, "I am the best man in this world. I know everything. Why should I read Bhagavad-gītā? I know everything. I have my own interpretation." This is going on. Hmm.
Pradyumna: Sarva mūla bhūtā svarūpa tvat param(?).
Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣaṁ. Īśvaraḥ, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BS 5.1) You should remember that(?).
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's name is Parameśvara, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. Now you can stop this and read what you have edited.
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) Broken down.
Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) . . . asked me to cut it.
Pradyumna: Just like your disciples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (end).