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771021 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

From Vanisource

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



771021R1-VRNDAVAN - October 21, 1977 - 68:03 Minutes



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Australian books are sold out. I was thinking that you would be thinking about that. He has to print in bigger quantities.

Prabhupāda: Great amount. You have to appoint two, three more printers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Gopāla says that the problem is not the printers, because they have offset presses, so to them, to print ten thousand, twenty thousand, fifty thousand doesn't really make much difference. The real issue is that he only had a certain amount of money up until now to work with. Now, if he gets more money available, he can easily print more books.

Prabhupāda: Money is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I mean, that was his point up until now, because once you have an offset press, it's just as easy to print fifty thousand as ten thousand. It doesn't really change their situation so much.

Prabhupāda: Money, there is no scarcity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Why kīrtana has stopped?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why kīrtana stopped?

Prabhupāda: Tired?

Upendra: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not tired.

Upendra: They are hanging on for every word you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hanging?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were eager to hear your words.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hmm. (break) (Bengali about dispensary)

Dr. G. Ghosh: (Bengali) With the greatest pleasure. (Bengali with Prabhupāda) Thank you. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: You are welcome.

Dr. G. Ghosh: Ācchā. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Dr. Ghosh)

Jayapatākā: Dr. Ghosh said he would even invest ten, fifteen thousand rupees in a dispensary, make it a very nice one.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jayapatākā: He said he would donate money also for . . . even ten, fifteen thousand rupees, for making nice dispensary.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. G. Ghosh: I am at the end of my resources. (Bengali) I am ready. (Bengali) You should also come forward and cooperate with me. (Bengali) Servant I am. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Mutual. (Bengali with Dr. Ghosh)

Dr. G. Ghosh: Every half an hour, an hour, just two teaspoons. (Bengali with Prabhupāda) Small quantities frequently. Small quantities frequently. (Bengali with Prabhupāda) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa orders . . . (Bengali) We just take orders from him. Whatever he says, it will be done. You see, I am always at your service. And whatever instruction, I . . . Today I am going to Allahabad . . .

Prabhupāda: Āpni, immediately come. Immediately come. (Bengali)

Dr. G. Ghosh: Ācchā. All right. Consider me as your servant. I'm always ready to serve you. (Bengali) I've never been confined to bed in these long years. (Bengali) I have given medicine to lakhs and lakhs of people, but I myself have never taken any. (Bengali) I am always ready. I am free now, absolutely free, (Bengali) with full energy.

Prabhupāda: Āpnāra life full successful. (Bengali) Āpnāra family life, successful. Āmāra family life, failure

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your spiritual family life . . .

Dr. G. Ghosh: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: We started life together. His life, family life, is very successful, and my family life is . . .

Jayapatākā: So better to have an unsuccessful family life, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and be successful in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: And done big, big business. Eh? Whatever Kṛṣṇa wanted to bring me, to do this work. Anyway . . . So I was sleeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You slept many, many, many hours. How do you feel?

Prabhupāda: Yes, feel good. In the morning part there is sleep; at night there is . . . Never mind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's your old habit.

Prabhupāda: Even it is scratching . . . Yes. When I sleep, then do not disturb.

Upendra: When he sleeps, don't disturb.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. He doesn't get disturbed when he sleeps. (pause)

Jayapatākā: All the devotees are eager that in this way, if you can frequently eat little bit, little bit, then gradually you can gain some strength.

Prabhupāda: What is the time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About 9:20. Nearly 9:30. You've slept a long time. And you slept at night pretty much also, Śatadhanya Mahārāja reports. Would you like to hear some special kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bharadvāja is here. He can sing any song you'd like to hear especially this morning.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some special request?

Prabhupāda: Bharadvāja is the best artist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bharadvāja?

Prabhupāda: Best artist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Best artist. He also sings very sweetly.

Prabhupāda: Artist means that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to hear Hari Haraye Namaḥ? Should he play with harmonium? Okay. And we'll all accompany?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (background whispering) (kīrtana) (break)

Prabhupāda: So urine is being stopped.

Upendra: Prabhupāda just tried for urine and passed about 10.

Prabhupāda: This is the last.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I just see why? If I look at the book I can give you some information.

Prabhupāda: Not in the book. Yes, you can see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday you took about 650 cc's to drink. You passed in urine about 450, plus you passed stool, another 150 to 200. So yesterday you passed almost as much as you drank, so there's nothing balance left today. Today you've taken about 100, 200 cc's to drink, and you've already passed over 100 of urine, so it's not very surprising that you're not passing much urine right now, 'cause you haven't drank very much.

Prabhupāda: So it depends on my drinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, definitely. If you don't drink, then you won't pass urine.

Prabhupāda: Then? I cannot drink. I am drinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. As much as you're drinking, you're passing urine. As you're drinking, you're passing urine.

Prabhupāda: But I have no desire to drink even.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you won't pass urine.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Urine comes from . . . It's a liquid. So you have to take in liquid.

Prabhupāda: Eh. Then consult kavirāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't understand what you . . . You want to pass urine without drinking?

Prabhupāda: No, I am prepared to drink.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then drink. Drink something then.

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Then after a while you'll pass urine automatically. Just like remember the day that you set your record of 1,000 cc's that you drank? On that day you passed also nearly 500 cc's urine. So depending upon how much you drink, that much you'll pass as urine.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean if you don't take the medicine will . . . Your question is that "If I stop taking medicine, will I continue to pass urine?" I think so. Medicine was . . . There was a . . . For some time your urine had become very dark. So the medicine was supposed to clear it up. Now your urine is clear. And, of course, the medicine was also supposed to help you to recover your strength, but that has not happened. At least we cannot see that there's any noticeable change in your strength.

Prabhupāda: Nava-yogendra? The presentation which you have brought may not be required here. Better sell them and engage there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sell them and engage there in Mombassa.

Nava-yogendra: What? Which I brought here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean those plates and things, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Anything, presentation, for the time being there is no need. Better invest the money there to develop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants you to invest whatever . . . 'Cause he's not eating so much, he says. So better to use the money and invest it in Mombassa for development there. That temple is very good, I think.

Prabhupāda: Kavirājī's medicine was helping stop the passing of . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kavirājī's medicine was what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Helping through medicine passing of urine. Of course, I'll drink, but what is the use of then the allopathic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, as I explained, the purpose of the allopathic was that during the time when your urine became very dark, we wanted to make it, you know, take away the poisons that were causing the urine to become dark. Now your urine is not dark anymore. That was one main thing. And the other thing was that we were hoping somehow to get you back to more strength, give you more strength by taking away whatever disease was there.

Prabhupāda: Jaya Nitāi-Gaura. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Drinking is very good. Whatever you go, kavirājī, allopathy, or Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, all of them recommend drinking some liquids or eating. Of course, eating is . . . You are having a little difficulty eating, of course. Eating or drinking is good.

Prabhupāda: Let kīrtana go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I told them.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (BS 5.38), (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa recites with Prabhupāda) yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Still the śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam is going on; otherwise, we are simply some bones, nothing else. Everything is finished. Nitāi-Gaura and rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa recites with Prabhupāda) nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ sama . . . (BS 5.39). (aside:) You can give massage. Hmm. So what is the next drinking?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the next drinking? Make something nice.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhavānanda: It's cold custard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Want some cold custard?

Prabhupāda: Whatever you give, I'll take.

Nava-yogendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This dream that you were walking . . . I became very happy.

(background whispering)

Bhavānanda: This is grape juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take some grape juice, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That is the old reliable.

Prabhupāda: So?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll have to sit up. Is that all right? (break) These are very favorite preparations. Today is Rāma Vijaya Utsava. Also the appearance day of Śrī Madhvācārya. So you should have a feast today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) So maybe Pisimā should do some cooking to celebrate this day. It is a very big . . . Dr. Ghosh told me that amongst the Bengali community . . .

Prabhupāda: No, all over India.

Pisimā: All over India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also Durgā-pūjā is today.

Prabhupāda: Vijayotsava. Today Rāmacandra conquered over Rāvaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So to celebrate that, shouldn't Pisimā do some cooking?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lugdu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you'll taste a little of each thing?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. I'll take. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . today, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Maybe the medicines are having some good effect. (break) Today is Vijayotsava.

Pisimā: (Bengali)

Bhavānanda: Utsava.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāma Vijayotsava. Speak in Hindi.

Nava-yogendra: Aj rāma vijaya utsava hai.

Prabhupāda: Hard of hearing. (laughter)

Bhavānanda: (loudly) Ajke rāma vijaya utsava. Aneka prasāda.

Pisimā: Aneka prasādam.

Bhavānanda: Āpne aneka prasādam korilun. (Bengali) Lugdu. Lugdu.

Pisimā: Lāḍu.

Bhavānanda: Lugdu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda asked for lugdu.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) lugdu.

Nava-yogendra: Lugdu, lugdu.

Pisimā: Lugdu.

Nava-yogendra: Bundi lāḍu.

Bhavānanda: Lucī?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Pisimā: Lucī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. She will cook a feast to celebrate the day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and you have to also take part. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .such a way he'll call laughing. Gravity should be maintained.

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: And laughing means taking things trifling. That is not allowed. This is the etiquette. That is what we are teaching. You are simple, but this is the etiquette. Understand me right or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We understand very well. We apologize for that we were taking too lightly. (pause)

Prabhupāda: So, whatever Nava-yogendra has presented, let it be sold and utilized . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For Mombassa. Okay.

Prabhupāda: Mmm. Sometimes presentations are sold at higher price by bid. Yes. That is the way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By bid.

Bharadvāja: (aside:) Amongst the devotees? (indistinct whispered discussion about how to do this)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The most valuable thing, you gave to Gurukṛpā Mahārāja—conchshell. But he did not pay anything for it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He'll worship. Jaya Nitāi-Gaura.

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(BS 5.39)
premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(BS 5.38)

These mantra should always be chanted. That will do great benefit to me. Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. Should we chant it now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Bharadvāja: Those two, or all the Brahma-saṁhitā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the Brahma-saṁhitā? Or those two in particular?

Prabhupāda:

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda
hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare
This is from Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Then Brahma-saṁhitā:
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(BS 5.39)

Then again from Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu (BS 5.38). These mantras should be recited so that I can hear, you can hear, occasionally. And kīrtana must go on. And physically, massage. Sometimes that Brahmi oil massage on the head. (break) Tran . . . whatever I have done in this state, is it going right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayādvaita?

Jayādvaita: Everything that you've translated is edited so far, except for the last two sittings. It's coming out very nicely. Now by your instruction to concentrate on Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's commentary, I think it will become even more clear, because Pradyumna will be able to give the English more easily.

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to do some just now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, one or two lines. Let us . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Yadubara wanted to film you translating. Is that all right? You don't mind. Okay. We can have a little light here while he films for about a half a minute? It wouldn't disturb you.

Prabhupāda: Yadubara is good devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara is a good devotee. Very dedicated devotee. You remember he cooked bati-chachari very nice also for you. He was cooking for you in Hrishikesh, massaging. Very intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His wife is also intelligent, Viśākhā.

Prabhupāda: Yadubara has become first devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Has become what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Devotee: First devotee.

Prabhupāda: First devotee before his wife.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First devotee before his wife, yes. You convinced him. He did not come here thinking to become a devotee. Remember, he came for photography work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But his good fortune was that he chose to photograph you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the devotees. So he became very attracted. (background whispering)

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Just going to get him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're just getting Pradyumna.

Prabhupāda: Yadubara has freedom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yadubara has freedom to do anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara? Has freedom to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Ha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (chuckles) I think that will make his service very enhanced to know that. (break)

Jayādvaita: This is the best association, to be associated with you while you're serving Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Brahmānanda: You always wanted this, Prabhupāda, to have your editors with you in the same place where you are doing your books.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura therefore said, miche māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. The whole world is being washed away by the waves of material nature. Māyār vāsana. Vairāja.(?) When we understand that everything is being washed away . . . That is viśva-rūpa. Kṛṣṇa went . . . From mouth everything is coming out. If you want to stop it, then this is the chance, human life. Hmm. This is viśva-rūpa. (break) . . .the same field. (break) (kīrtana)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Chant loudly. (kīrtana gets louder) (break)

Bhavānanda: Very early this morning. (break) Tamāla and all of us have met and thought that "Let us . . ." Our position is to serve you according to your desire. Since you didn't request any medicines, we felt that we shouldn't try to . . . From what we've seen, today you've rested very much deep sleep, and the vomitous nausea has disappeared. But you haven't passed very much urine today. One reason is that you were taking that mild dialysis medicine. For the past three days you've been taking medicine to help you pass urine. So usually when you stop taking that medicine, it takes a day or two for the urine function to start naturally again.

Prabhupāda: No medicine.

Bhavānanda: Sorry, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No medicine. What is that medicine?

Bhavānanda: I'm sorry?

Prabhupāda: What is that medicine?

Bhavānanda: There's so many medicines, but today you haven't taken any. There is medicine for the infection in the kidney. There's medicine for the heart. There's medicine for passing urine. There's medicine for preventing any cough in the lung. There's vitamin supplement.

Prabhupāda: So how many I shall take?

Bhavānanda: That's five different medicines. We felt yesterday that your . . . When the doctor came, you told us that to take so many medicines is disgusting, and that it bothers your brain. And I know that I personally felt that my position is simply to follow your instruction and command as my very life and soul, not to try and force my idea or my feeling onto Your Divine Grace. So we all of us felt that you had given us so many hints.

Prabhupāda: So medicine, kīrtana.

Bhavānanda: Medicine is kīrtana. Enechi auṣadhi māyā. (kīrtana) (break)

Prabhupāda: The sleeping medicine he has given?

Bhavānanda: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's no sleeping medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Prabhupāda, today you haven't taken any medicine. So Bhavānanda Mahārāja is simply . . . was asking whether if you want any medicine.

Prabhupāda: What for?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's why we didn't give you any. It was our opinion that you probably didn't want any. Just like this morning you asked me for miśri-jala at five, six o'clock when I was on duty. So normally they give you a pill also for helping to pass urine. So my reasoning was that, well, you didn't ask me for the pill, you simply asked me for miśri-jala, so I just gave you miśri-jala. Formerly, even if you didn't ask, we were encouraging you, "Please take medicine, please take medicine, please take medicine." So today we decided that whatever you ask, that we will do. So therefore, as you did not ask for medicine, we didn't give any medicine. This is not done on any doctor's instruction, that we're giving or not giving, but simply we felt whatever you ask us to do, you have perfect knowledge and perfect understanding, and everything we've ever done in this movement is on your direction, so you direct what you want to be done. If you want the doctor to come, then the doctor will come. If you want to take his medicine, then you can take. And we can give our opinion, but it's not our duty to . . . It's not good for us to over . . . to too much push something upon Your Divine Grace. If you want to have the kavirāja, then we can call the kavirāja. Whatever Your Divine Grace considers to be the best course of action, that should be taken up. At least that was our understanding.

Bhavānanda: Under your direction, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you have single-handedly spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness over the entire world. And our position has always been to try and follow your instruction to the letter as our life and soul.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're not unconscious, so the question does not arise that we have to decide on our own what to do. You're perfectly conscious. So we should simply take your direction. I think we can wait until tomorrow and see what the results of not taking any medicine are. If you want to, you could do that. (break)

Bhavānanda: Our Bengali devotees, they brought you big basket of ḍāb. Can they have some kīrtana? (break)

Dr. Gopal(?): (Bengali with Prabhupāda) (end).