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771020 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

From Vanisource

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



No Audio - October 20, 1977


Audio is not available at the Archives


Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, what do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't had an opportunity yet to speak with Bhakti-caru, so it was not possible for me to understand the conversation that transpired.

Prabhupāda: No. My . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I like him. He has fine features. He's thoughtful. Nice voice. I mean these kavirājas . . . The real point is how in this age, how deeply they understand kavirājī medicine, that I can't say. But from general point of view, comparison of doctors, they're the best. They're . . .

Upendra: More sensitive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're the most devotional and refined people of the doctors. How much they know kavirājī, that I cannot say. But he's not a bogus man.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara? (Bengali)

Bhagatjī: If actually comes here in and it is done, there will be systematic treatment according to the physicians (Bengali).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was that?

Bhagatjī: If it is kidney trouble—they are doubtful whether it is kidney trouble or lungs trouble. If it is a kidney trouble, they cannot come so fine. So they are about the appetite also. They say appetite must increase, then they will treat in the same way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the urine?

Bhagatjī: Urine today is very good. No pus, no blood.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it's been like that for seven months.

Bhagatjī: So I'll take it tomorrow again . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. What I'm saying is that the urine has always been yellow.

Bhagatjī: But that is the thing, that why sometimes pus and blood and comes out of urine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only for two or three days.

Bhagatjī: Why is it? They have to test it. They have to find out. That is the reason of all this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but all along, all of the doctors say it is a kidney trouble. All of the doctors, allopathic and kavirājī, agree kidneys are defective. And the surgeon in London, he also said so. Even when the urine was normal, still they said the kidneys were not in order. Just because the urine is yellow doesn't mean kidneys are functioning properly. That is not the only sign. They all agree that the kidneys are not properly functioning. I don't know why this doctor says no. Just because the urine became brown and then it became yellow doesn't mean it was not functioning, now they are functioning. At least not according to the other doctors. This doctor is guessing. That I can clearly see. He is guessing.

Bhagatjī: No. Doctor also said that there should be an x-ray. But Prabhupāda will oppose.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm saying their actual science at this point . . .

Bhagatjī: That may be, sir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he gave prescription for medicine, according to Svarūpa Dāmodara and Ādi-keśa Mahārāja who know that medicine, which is very strong medicine and is anti-tubercular medicine. But he doesn't know whether Prabhupāda has that tuberculosis. He is guessing, and he had already prescribed a medicine which is very strong. So that . . . There shouldn't be any guessing. We can't experiment with Prabhupāda.

Bhagatjī: No, x-ray, x-ray . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: X-ray is different. That's different.

Bhagatjī: I'm talking about x-ray.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the medicine he prescribed was a very strong medicine.

Bhagatjī: And very little quantity or more(?) quantity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever the quantity, it was very strong medicine. Prabhupāda hasn't gotten it yet.

Haṁsadūta: Svarūpa explained that these doctors generally don't know the composition of these medicines. In other words, they don't know exactly what the ingredients are and what the side effects are. He was explaining that that one medicine which Svarūpa himself took for a year, he said it causes dizziness, one medicine that doctor prescribed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: X-rays . . . The thing is this, to take an x-ray is not bad. But after x-ray, then what is the next program? Just like you were mentioning the man is the head of the tuberculosis sanatorium. So supposing he takes an x-ray . . .

Bhagatjī: No, he'll not take the x-ray.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But supposing an x-ray, then . . . Supposing there appears to be something which they suspect. Then what will they do?

Bhagatjī: They will treat for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do they treat?

Haṁsadūta: They'll want to operate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First of all they either operate or they take you to their sanatorium.

Bhagatjī: No, he will not take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then?

Bhagatjī: And x-ray can come here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not for x-ray.

Bhagatjī: No, medicine also can be . . . they can make it also they will treat both the trouble(?) and the trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had a big discussion, so many devotees. And everybody related all of the different discussions regarding these allopathic doctors, how they are speculating. I mean factually the man came for one week, and you can see that he got nothing accomplished.

Bhagatjī: What do you mean?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say there is no change after his week's treatment. He himself is puzzled. Dr. Gopal is puzzled. He can't figure out what is wrong. He's saying, "Now let us take x-ray." He knows Prabhupāda won't give in to a blood test. So he's saying, "Now let us take x-ray. Perhaps it is something in the lung." Now Prabhupāda's lungs have been the same for the last week. For one week the lungs have been the same. But he never mentioned anything about lungs until today. I mean now . . . He was thinking his kidneys. But we gave his kidney medicine and still it didn't change his appetite. So now he's thinking, "Perhaps it's the lungs." This is speculation. "It's not this, then maybe it's this. It's not this, then maybe it's this. It's not this . . ." In other words, this is not science.

Haṁsadūta: That's their treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is not science. This is speculation. It is not scientific. He's puzzled.

Bhagatjī: And what is scientific? (?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scientific mean just like Āyurvedic should be scientific. Should be. I don't say they are, because they're not so expert, some of these vaidyas. But Āyurvedic is like this. You take the pulse, and according to what the pulse is, then you can ask the patient, "You must be feeling like this, like this, like this," and the patient says, "Yes, yes, yes." Then you go into Vedas and you read, "This is to be done, this is to be given, this is to be given." Then you go to the patient and you give this, this and this, and the patient takes it and he gets better. That's science. It's sure. It's not, "Well, maybe it's like this, maybe like that, maybe if you take this, this . . ." That's not science. He's guessing. So Prabhupāda is not very confident of that kind of treating. The fact is he was puzzled, Dr. Gopal.

Bhagatjī: So should we look for some good Āyurveda physician?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Prabhupāda had a dream this morning, and in this dream, he saw one Rāmānuja-vaidya preparing this makara-dhvaja medicine. So Prabhupāda's dreams are transcendental. So that means Kṛṣṇa has given some idea how to get Prabhupāda treated. So we called one Rāmānuja here tonight. I don't know what the discussion was. I couldn't follow the meaning. But in any case, Prabhupāda gave us an opportunity to try this allopathic medicine. He was never in favor of allopathic medicine, but all of his disciples were in favor to let us try it. So Prabhupāda subjected himself to our treatment. And factually you saw he was vomiting, dizzy and losing sleep. Then yesterday we didn't give any medicine, and he was much better off. You heard how he was speaking strongly. So we already got indication. Finally we spoke with Śrīla Prabhupāda that "We want you to direct us." So Prabhupāda said, "So you are ready to follow whatever I direct?" So we said, "Yes." He said, "Then no more allopathic. It is finished." We're trying allopathic from our side, but it didn't work. Factually it didn't work. This Dr. Gopal promised in four days he will sit up. And Dr. Ghosh, afterwards he told me, "That is rubbish." He said, "How could he . . . He wants to gain the confidence of the patient." But this kind of promising, it's childish to say like that. Anybody could know Prabhupāda was not going to sit up in four days. Dr. Ghosh is a very competent, confident doctor, there's no doubt. But that whole science of Western medicine is very speculative. It's guessing work. Anyway, so many devotees were telling their stories. I told that my father, a half a year ago, he had arthritis of the hip, so they put a new hip. Then it came on this side, they gave a new hip here. Then eight weeks he was in the hospital. They said, "Now you're better. Let's get you up and you can walk." After eight weeks, so many operations. They stood him up and immediately he had heart attack and died. They're so expert that that's how they killed him. Then we know one devotee, he is in New York temple, he was a nurse, head nurse assisting one of the biggest surgeons who was operating on the presidents. She said that during the operation they would joke with each other. One day one man came in and complained, "I have a pain in my side." They took x-ray and found that during the operation they had left a scissors inside. These are the mentalities of these people. The whole science is very . . .

Haṁsadūta: Dubious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doubtful. Dubious. So Prabhupāda has more faith . . . Another thing, kavirājī medicine is not dangerous. Whereas these men, you can see how many side effects they have, these Western medicines. Prabhupāda becomes dizzy, he cannot sleep, he vomits. And as soon as we agree to x-ray, x-ray is only the first step, then there'll be more and more and more. When you call in a doctor it means you are ready to take his treatment. When you ask for an x-ray it means that after the x-ray you're ready to accept whatever they advise. Otherwise why do you call for x-ray? That's the whole point. So the real issue we have to decide is whether Prabhupāda wants to take the allopathic medicine or not. If he says, "I don't want allopathic medicine," what is the use of taking x-ray? Because the kavirājas don't care for x-rays. They say that simply by pulse they can see everything. Just like this man, he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys. We did not tell him anything, but he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys and the stomach. And he said, "Kidneys are completely malfunctioning, and the fire of digestion is nearly extinguished." I think that's a very practical statement if you think about it. Prabhupāda, he's passing urine, he can pass stool, but what is the real problem, the biggest problem? There's no taste, no appetite. And that you have to admit, he has no idea how to get appetite, Dr. Gopal. He has no idea. He's thinking this and this. He doesn't even understand there's a fire of digestion. Where does it mention that Kṛṣṇa is sitting as the fire of digestion in the stomach? Where does it say that in the allopathic books? (laughs) It doesn't. But Prabhupāda has said it from the very beginning: "I have no digestion." So the question is how to wake up that fire. And they can't do this, these allopathic doctors. Maybe the kavirājas can do it.

Bhagatjī: So there is one Vedic kavirāja in Mathurā. Should I bring him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I don't know. First of all there's now already two kavirājas involved. Maybe we should first let this Rāmānujī do his work.

Bhagatjī: Today, he came today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a kavirāja. Oh, yeah. And Bonamali is coming tomorrow. So I think before you call a third man . . .

Prabhupāda: No, Bonamali is no use.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No use. Don't even bother calling him. The only question is that we have given him such expensive ingredients to make that medicine. The musk is worth many hundreds of rupees. Gold and pearls. So the real question in our minds is if this medicine is genuine. We want to know whether the medicine he has prepared is genuine or not.

Prabhupāda: He said it is not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing is that Bhakti-caru should have . . . When we gave these ingredients . . . It's just like when you mentioned about the ring. When you give the stone, in front of you it must be made. So with such valuable ingredients . . . In any case we can find out if it is genuine or not. But if it is not genuine, then the man . . . Bhakti-caru?

Devotee: This kavirāja mentioned that you get it tested in front of you. I want to make here. He said that "I don't want to make here." This kavirāja said makara-dhvaja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My only interest in Bonamali is if by some chance he has done some trick, that I want to find out. Because then I want back the ingredients or the money. That's my only interest. Because we've given him very valuable ingredients.

Devotee: I myself gave the golden powder.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this kavirāja said it's not makara-dhvaja.

Devotee: He said it's not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Rāmānuja. He looked at it, he said, "This is not makara-dhvaja." Now let us wait. There may be some confusion over the name or something, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm not jumping to conclusion yet. But my interest in Bonamali in only that since we gave these valuable ingredients, I want to know that what he gave us is the same thing. I'm not saying that he has played any tricks. Better that we should be patient and check carefully everything. There's no reason to jump to any conclusion yet. It may be that the name he has given is a different name.

Prabhupāda: Then why he did not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I also was wondering. Did anyone ask Bhakti-caru? Cause I didn't . . . I couldn't speak to him. He left just now to take the . . .

Devotee: You called him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We wanted Bonamali to come, but for some reason he didn't come. So these things have to be looked into, and we'll do that. Anyway, I think that this is very important that you had this dream, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And your dreams are not ordinary in any way. They're definitely Kṛṣṇa's directing, so I'm sure that there's a significance to the dream. We should follow it through.

Prabhupāda: Where is Bhakti-caru?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's taking the Rāmānuja-vaidya back.

Devotee: He's from Vṛndāvana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think from Śrī Raṅgam temple. I haven't talked with him yet. He left very quickly. Śrīla Prabhupāda? One good news, the fixed deposit receipts have been transferred finally. We got them back now endorsed from the head office, so they are officially now with the Parliament Street office. That was Girirāja's very good work. He said he would do this, I remember, and he did it.

Prabhupāda: What is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Total amount? Total amount is ten lakhs, sixty thousand. It's now transferred. I have the receipts locked as before. And they're duly endorsed.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're endorsed to the head office, Parliament Street, Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Now what you have got?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The fixed deposit slips. The actual receipts. See, but they've been stamped now. They've been handed over. We handed them over to this office here. We did everything according to letters and everything, and this office here in Vṛndāvana sent them by registered post to the head office. The head office got them, stamped them, and Girirāja went today to Delhi, collected them with Hari-śauri, and then Girirāja went to Bombay and Hari-śauri brought the receipts back. I took them and locked them away. Same receipts, simply stamped now with the head office stamp, entered in their accounts. So now the fixed deposits are officially held. We have them, but I mean to say they are with the Parliament Street Punjab Bank. Not Vṛndāvana branch.

Prabhupāda: So, they have issued any covering letter?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More or less a covering letter. I mean we have certain correspondence, but on the receipt itself it says transferred . . . The whole thing is done pakkā. When we gave the receipts to Vṛndāvana branch they signed that they received them. When we gave the letter to the head office originally telling them what we wanted to do, they gave us back in writing, "Take the receipts, give them to the Vṛndāvana branch. They will be transferred, then you will collect them in Delhi." Everything is in writing, documented.

Prabhupāda: And no new receipt issued?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Not a new receipt issued. We wanted a new receipt, but they did not issue a new receipt. I was expecting to get a new receipt, but they didn't give. They simply noted on these receipts.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that is sufficient?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, definitely.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can find the . . . See, I didn't get to speak with Girirāja, 'cause he's gone to Bombay. He was quite eager to return to Bombay. He's been gone for awhile. So we were expecting to get new receipts. But anyway, these receipts will do. They have a new branch number marked on them, they have the stamp of the New Delhi bank stamped on them. They have the stamp, rubberstamp of the New Delhi Parliament office, stamped onto the receipts now.

Devotee: And there are the signatures of the . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This manager signed, and I believed the Parliament Street man . . . I mean they're very . . . I can check, but they're very . . . It's done properly. Girirāja doesn't get tricked. They're not trying to cheat us. They transferred Gupta.

Devotee: By telegram, yesterday. They transferred by telegram.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is he?

Devotee: In Agra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Gupta has been transferred to Agra now. He's no longer with this bank.

Devotee: He said "By your negligence we have lost ten or eleven lakh of rupees."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The head office is very angry.

Devotee: Very angry. That man was telling yesterday.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who was telling?

Devotee: One of the clerks in . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The head office man, when he came here he became so much upset to see how they have been given a big room and instead they have made a little cubicle. There's no waiting seats for any people who come in. There's no facilities. He said this has never seen such a thing in the history of Punjab Bank, that such good clients have been dealt with like this. And he said, "I will bring a new manager, a new man here, and I will completely redecorate this whole room" that we've given them. He said, "You will not have any complaints." Girirāja requested, "You must send a younger man who's trained in Delhi at the head office. We don't want one of these people who cannot speak English, who cannot deal with international customers." And we gave a whole list of complaints.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he'll send him this coming week. We are expecting. He's coming again. He said, "When I come next time you will have no more complaints."

Devotee: This man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he is the same caliber. No, they are sending a different man. He is here only until the new man comes. So in . . . They realize at the head office that to them this ten lakhs is nothing, because they think that we can give much more. So there's no question of them thinking how to steal this money. They want more business. Ten lakhs is nothing. Another thing is that we have amongst our Life Members, some of them are former . . . Two of our members in Delhi were formerly the chairman of the Punjab Bank and the second man in charge of Punjab Bank. So our connections are so strong that no one could ever do anything. Tejiyas is very intimate with those members. When Girirāja went to Delhi to begin this, the first person he met was one of the former chairmen who happens to be our member. Girirāja took instruction. The man said, "You'll do like this, you do like . . ." you know. No one could . . . A man who's a former chairman is also still very powerful and respected. So no chairman or anyone will play any tricks. It's very good that this was done. Now they understand that they cannot deal with us with harassment tactics. Anyway, the real benefit will come when the new man comes here locally. Then we can start to deal properly. Until then it will always be difficult, because they are so . . .

Prabhupāda: Now who is . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Trivedi. He is very bad also.

Devotee: He's worse than Gupta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's worse. I mean the whole group of them is worse. There's a whole clique of them. The real thing that was happening is that without the knowledge of the head office they were doing so many things here locally. When it became known to the head office, then the head office became very angry. I can now understand that they had a whole plan in mind. They had it very planned, what they were doing. The plan in my opinion was that they felt here is a sannyāsī, old sādhu, and he has many foreign disciples . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were planning, in my . . . I talked with Girirāja about this. They were thinking "Here is an old sannyāsī, Prabhupāda. He has many foreign disciples, he has money. Let us get the money in fixed deposit. Then if he should pass away, then somehow by trick the money will be kept here and we'll never let them take it out." That was their plan. Therefore whenever Prabhupāda suggested that Gurukṛpā would sign, co-sign, "No, no," they would never allow. Their plan is that Prabhupāda would pass away, and all the foreigners would be there, and they'd never let them take it. When I showed them this power of attorney, they had a great shock. They were shocked how this had happened to them. I think this was their plan. Very deceiving type of people. Because they are here in Vṛndāvana. All their money is from fixed deposits from āśramas. So they know how to do this business of keeping the money. Now everything is clear. The money is there in Delhi. The Delhi office is not like that. They're businesslike. And we can keep dealing them, but on regular accounts. None of these fixed deposits. Not now. They, "Now you must gain their confidence again." We told them, "We have nothing against you. But you deal properly, then again we'll deposit. But deal properly in a businesslike way." We have nothing against them. Punjab Bank is a good bank. Anyway, it's settled now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's finished. I wanted you to know that it's been successfully completed due to Girirāja's good efforts. Girirāja went to Bombay. His parents went with him.

Prabhupāda: You said this Trivedi is worse than him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, I've seen his treatment. He's the . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that he is very rough, this Trivedi. He'll be taken away. This is just temporary. Immediately they got rid of Gupta because they knew that we were very much dissatisfied. And Trivedi is just a temporary replacement for Gupta. As soon as the man is sent from Delhi, then this Trivedi will be taken away.

Prabhupāda: So they're going to send a ma . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes. They said that they'd be sending him this coming week. I mean they're quite serious about this. The fact that they have transferred Gupta within twenty-four hours shows that they're quite serious in wanting to please us. The man said it: "We want to please you."

Prabhupāda: Huh? Dugal. What about him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a rogue. I said it from the beginning, he's a rogue. Anyway, they couldn't throw the manager out. They had to throw the . . . That would have been a disgrace. They couldn't do that. This Dugal was president formerly of Rishikesh for twenty-five years. I mean, how is that to deal with . . . (talking softly to someone else) Śrīla Prabhupāda, you haven't had anything to drink for awhile. Would you like something? It's been quite a while since you last took. Upendra is here. He could make something for you.

Prabhupāda: Fruit juice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fruit juice? Yes. What kind do you have, Upendra, that you could make? Some grape juice? Or do you have that pomegranate? Would you like some pomegranate, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I did not like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's bitter.

Upendra: That's because they mixed it with honey.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They made it with honey, Śrīla Prabhupāda, instead of miśri-jala. What kind would you like to have?

Prabhupāda: That other fruit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sweet lemons? Do you find that you have a good result with drinking that kind of juice at night? You don't have any reaction in any way? Causing mucus or something? It's okay?

Devotee: We could make an ice cream shake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Upendra will make it? All of the devotees are very excited about your travel plans, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) Maybe Bhagatjī will come also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) He likes the Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatjī had not heard yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Bhagatjī had not been informed yet of your traveling plans.

Prabhupāda: No, you are proposing. (Bhagatjī and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa discuss quietly)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're just discussing your traveling. Because it is cold in the wintertime.

Bhagatjī: . . . (indistinct) . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another reason though. The main thing is that this room, the rooms in this house don't have so much ventilation like Māyāpur does. Very good. Prabhupāda is always laying in one room, if he gets air then it's good—passing air, you know, ventilation. He's been in the same room now for a long time. Change of place is nice. Plus all of the things are grown fresh there, so Prabhupāda might get some appetite. Very nice vegetables grown there, fresh. Anyway, he's thinking about it. He said you will come with him. Prabhupāda quoted that verse. You were quoting that verse that Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana are . . . are the same. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi? What is that verse?

Prabhupāda: Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi jebā jāne cintāmaṇi tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want a little Brahmi oil, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on your head? Will it relax you a little?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Once one man asked why Kṛṣṇa Himself comes in India only? Why not American countries?

Prabhupāda: What did you answer?

Bhagatjī: I heard the answer forty years back, Prabhupāda, from one professor. He brought the map of the world, and he showed the India position. Like this. That suppose one is sick. Someone has some cut. Then he's a very good man, and he sends the information to the hospital. He said, "It is a small cut. Let me send my compounder(?)." The compounder(?) goes and makes a powder(?). And sometimes he has got . . . Then he says "Let go." Then a big, more serious disease he sends. And suppose he gets heart attack, so then himself goes, because it is a very serious disease. So he got the world map, and he showed that India is the heart of the world. So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself. And U.P. is the heart of India. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Kṛṣṇa comes to Bengal. (laughter)

Bhagatjī: But in a devotee form.

Prabhupāda: Just like government has got a house. So when the governor comes, he comes in that house. Similarly India is the bhūmi, and whenever incarnation of God or God Himself comes . . . (break) . . .discussion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We didn't discuss last night, but it was agreed that it was a good idea. In about three weeks it's cooler here. In Māyāpur there is nice weather. . . . (indistinct) . . . (end).