771017 - Conversation A - Vrndavana
(Conversation Visit from Dr. G. Ghosh and Dr. Gopal)
Dr. Ghosh: To kirokom? Amito ekta scheme enechi je eirokom icche ache. Jemon health section thakbe. (So what will it be like? I have brought one scheme, and I have a desire that there will be a health section.) Regular lecture about health and disease in popular language with demonstrations by charts, models, projectors and cinematography. Eirokom hobe, tarpor ekta . . . (It will be like this, then one . . .) Maintaining health cards for children. Every six months have their height, weight . . . Building health science museum. Tate apnar somosto model thakbe, ekhane joto visitor ache, tara sob dekhbe, khub attractive hobe, health museum ekhane swastha vigyan sangrahalaya thakbe, tate sob . . . (There will be all models as you wanted, all the visitors that come here they will see—it will be very attractive, there will be a health museum and everything in that . . .) models, charts, shows various parts of the body . . . for propagating health science amongst the inmates of gurukula and the public. Gymnasium for health. Tarpor ekta simple yoga lessons for children, tar songe ekta deshi sports, bileti sports thake, eirokom ekta korte chaichi. (Then one simple yoga lesson for the children—along with that, domestic and foreign sports. I want to do something like this.)
Prabhupāda: Dekhun sobar songe poramorsho korun. (See, consult with all the others.)
Dr. Ghosh: Seta kar songe poramorsho kora jabe? Apnar approval ache to? (To whom I should consult?) If you approve, then we can go on.
Prabhupāda: Āmādera spiritual . . . (Our spiritual . . .)
Dr. Ghosh: Spiritual kintu body takeu to dekhte hobe (Body should be taken care of) 'cause this is God's temple.
Prabhupāda: Khub beshi . . . (Very much . . .)
Dr. Ghosh: Spiritual to kortei hobe, at the same time, psycho and soma, apnara jemon pschi mane soul er dike dekhchen kintu tar songe soma should be taken care of, kenona this is God's temple korte hobe to? Sei jonnoi bolchi. Ei je apni . . . apni jodi kichu contribute koren, ar amio uddyomi baki jibon tuku etake develop korar jonno katai, ar amaro kichu . . . apnara kichu contribute korun, ami 10-15 hajar dite pari, apnara baki 3/4th din, khub bhalo hoye jabe, ekta dik chirokaler jonno . . . (We have to take care of spiritual life—at the same time, psycho and soma, just like you are taking care of psyche—the soul but at the same time soma should also be taken care of. Because this is God's temple and we have to take care also? Here I am telling you. You are . . . if you contribute some and I also take steps and thus for the rest of my life I can engage in developing this . . . you can contribute some, I can give 10 to 15 thousand, the rest 3/4th you can give. It will be very good, for a long lasting thing . . .) He can have a little glucose in water?
Prabhupada: 10-15 hajar takay ki hobe? (What will be the use of 10 to 15 thousands?)
Dr. Ghosh: Ami nijer debo. Ar apnara 3 part din. Bakita ami dibo. Ar jotodin bachbo ami kaj korbo. (I will give from my side. And you give the rest 3 parts. The rest I will give. And I will work until my last breath.)
Prabhupada: Amar iccha ekta clinic thak, eder sob osukh bisukh hole . . . (My desire is that there is one clinic, so that if they fall sick . . .)
Dr. Ghosh: Apni iccha korechen bole ami . . . jodi bolen pore ogrosor hoi, noyile pore (You desired so I . . . if you say I will advance further, otherwise) I will go back.
Prabhupada: Doctor Sharma-r sange . . . (With doctor Sharma . . .)
Dr. Ghosh: Doctor Sharma-r sange poramorsho kori. Karon egulo ajkal dorkar . . . buro lokeder shekhale hobe na. Young der. Tobe kichu jodi desher hote pare . . . (I would consult with doctor Sharma . . . because these are required . . . no point in teaching the old people. We need young people. Then the country will get some benefit.) Our people are steeped in ignorance about the laws of health. In the most impressionable age . . . the most impressionable age . . . Apnader ISKCON er nam die . . . (In your ISKCON's name . . .)
Prabhupada: Amar temon brain cholche na. (My brain is not working well.)
Dr. Ghosh: Ha, ha thik bujhte parchi. Nourishment pouchache na. (Yes yes, I can understand. Nourishment is not taking place.)
Bhavānanda: Taking glucose in juice.
Upendra: We have lunch ready. Getting ready.
Dr. Ghosh: Glucose in water.
Bhavānanda: He's been taking glucose in fruit juices. He hasn't taken today very much.
Dr. Ghosh: Every hour, a sip, sip. If he can't take at one time, let just him sip every half an hour a teaspoon. Otherwise it is very low.
Prabhupāda: Teaspoonful I can take. Teaspoon I can take.
Dr. Ghosh: Teaspoon, yes.
Bhavānanda: Every half an hour.
Dr. Ghosh: Every half an hour teaspoon? Every few minutes. Or four teaspoons every half an hour. Bring some. Let me see how he . . .
Bhakti-caru: He is going to take some food now.
Dr. Ghosh: Food?
Dr. Ghosh: Prasādam. Rice water or rice, a little rice, soft rice. Very good soft rice a few teaspoon.
Bhavānanda: A little lucī and legume.
Dr. Ghosh: Well, if he can take it, let him have.
Upendra: What about a bath? Should we give Prabhupāda a bath now?
Dr. Ghosh: Bhāla lucī? Yes, certainly, he must have something.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (indistinct whispering among devotees)
Prabhupāda: So, let me sit up.
Bhavānanda: Would you like a blanket around you, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Hmm?
Dr. Ghosh: . . . (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Urine, urine?
Dr. Ghosh: . . . (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To do what? Take blood pressure?
Dr. Ghosh: . . . (indistinct)
(indistinct background talking among devotees)
Bhavānanda: Yes, he took. He took one at 11:15. Yes. Vitamin C and liquid vitamin. Then the next one should be . . . we mix the B with the C. Three times a day. Three times? Three times. He should take today two more.
Dr. Ghosh: Yes. (faint background discussion about diet, etc.) Stomach is all right. Liver is all right. So then only what have got to do is to eat.
Bhavānanda: Apricot, raisin, dahī and milk.
Dr. Ghosh: And the fuit juice?
Bhavānanda: Papaya. Avocado, coconut milk . . .
Dr. Ghosh: . . . (indistinct Bengali) (indistinct background conversation)
Bali-mardana: The other doctor from Ramakrishna Mission is here. Should he come in?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Ghosh? The other doctor has come.
Dr. Ghosh: Doctor has come?
Bali-mardana: Yes, from Ramakrishna. I'll bring him in?
Dr. Ghosh: Yes, please.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bring another chair.
Dr. Ghosh: Dr. Gopal.
Dr. Gopal: Dr. Gopal of Ramakrishna Mission, doctor, M.D. I have called in just to take your pressure and all the . . . (indistinct) . . . you see . . . (indistinct) . . . for you.
Prabhupāda: I saw you yesterday.
Dr. Gopal: I examined you yesterday . . . (indistinct)
Bhavānanda: There's bad cough when he takes any milk. Gives him very deep cough. (doctors talking together in background, discussing Lassix)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The surgeon in London, he said that Lassix might be dangerous for Prabhupāda.
Dr. Ghosh: He was given an enema after; bowels were constricted . . . (indistinct)
Dr. Gopal: Let us lay him down on his back. That's it.
Bhavānanda: Is that comfortable, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (doctors talking—indistinct)
Dr. Gopal: Say "Ah."
Dr. Gopal: . . . (indistinct Hindi)
Upendra: He's talking with the doctor, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is Upendra and Girirāja. We're just with you while they're talking with the doctor, finding out information.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Girirāja?
Prabhupāda: News from Bombay? (break)
Girirāja: . . . activities are going on. Haridāsa promised that he would, you know, maintain the collections for maintenance. So he's doing that with the help of one or two other boys. And I asked about the attendance at the morning and evening programs, and they wrote back that the attendance at the morning program is very good, maṅgala-ārati and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And it's fair attendance in the evening. And then the construction is going on. It's in the final stages. And then you probably know we had a meeting to discuss the plans for the opening and the management of the new guesthouse and restaurant and theater. So I think the plans are very good. Actually, last night we were discussing that the cullis pieces which go on the top of the domes, that those are ordered in, I think, brass or copper like here. But those become black very quickly. So we decided that we would try to plate them in gold. So we had also decided that we would not try to have more men donate for rooms, because we want to make sure that we have enough rooms available for outside guests that might be coming. So some of the big men who might have donated for that, I could approach them to get donations so that we could gold-plate . . . (break) So we decided that we wanted to open around January, so that we could take advantage of the facilities immediately, so that the building doesn't lie vacant for two months.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Subhasya śīghram. As early as possible.
Girirāja: Yes. So the reason we selected January 8th was because many of the important devotees like Yaśodānandana Swami, they're going out of India for collecting during the . . . that time, so they felt that it would be easier for them to be back by January 8th.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It cannot remain vacant.
(whispered comments aside)
Prabhupāda: Consult with Jayatīrtha. (whispered comments aside)
Hari-śauri: Jayatīrtha's here.
Prabhupāda: I'm asking Girirāja.
Hari-śauri: Consult with Jayatīrtha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? For the Bombay opening, is it necessary to have those South Indian brāhmaṇas? If Yaśodānandana Mahārāja knows the ceremonies . . .
Hari-śauri: Which he does very, very well.
Prabhupāda: Then why?
Hari-śauri: He does know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because many of the . . . Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and others were expressing the feeling that Bombay is not like Vṛndāvana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana there are so many smārta-brāhmaṇas, but Bombay is a very materialistic, modern, Western city. Some of our devotees have already been invited, Acyutānanda and one other, for themselves opening a temple. So it was the common opinion of most of the devotees, "What is the need of hiring these fourteen, fifteen brāhmaṇas?" The people don't care in Bombay for this.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rather, they may be more impressed to have the Western devotees doing it, and we save so much . . .
Prabhupāda: Western brāhmaṇas.
Hari-śauri: Western brāhmaṇas, yes.
Girirāja: Imported. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That was my prediction. As they're importing ghee, milk, similarly, brāhmaṇa also. Go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya. That's nice proposal.
Hari-śauri: Jaya. Yaśodānandana can do it very nicely. He did it very expertly in Fiji.
Hari-śauri: And the Indians there were very, very appreciative that the Western, white brāhmaṇas had done the installation. They were telling Vāsudeva that, "Now we must take instructions from these men. They know the pūjā."
Prabhupāda: That is good proposal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like it to be opened on your Guru Mahārāja's disappearance . . .
Prabhupāda: Any . . . early as possible.
Hari-śauri: Anything. Earliest possible date.
Prabhupāda: That would be nice, Guru Mahārāja appearance day. It is . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's his disappearance day.
Girirāja: The disappearance day is on December 29th, which is just the correct time when we want to open.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that's nice.
Girirāja: So we could begin . . .
Prabhupāda: We have no such difference, disappearance and appearance.
Girirāja: Except in your case. We don't want disappearance.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Jīvo vā māro vā. Because we are going to accept eternity, so appearance and disappearance of this body is no a very important thing. Nitya-līlā, eternal life—that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, the early as possible. Take as far as possible our men. We can keep some assistant, local brāhmaṇa. If we keep one or two South Indian brāhmaṇas, they may take it that we are doing with cooperation. One or two can be kept.
Hari-śauri: Just one or two.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: South Indian brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or local brāhmaṇas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Local brāhmaṇas might be a lot easier. Once you get these South Indian brāhmaṇas, then they say there has to be twelve, fourteen, fifteen. But local brāhmaṇas, one or two would come. Probably there are some devotee brāhmaṇas that we can find.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't even charge, probably. We can simply give donation to them, but they won't even demand charge. That will be best.
Hari-śauri: The South Indians probably would not agree to one or two.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They'll want fourteen or fifteen.
Hari-śauri: Now they've already got the idea of taking so much money from us, they won't like it if one or two come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They won't agree to it. They'll say it's not possible.
Hari-śauri: It's better to tell them . . .
Prabhupāda: You can get local brāhmaṇa to assist us. Perform the yajña little gorgeously, that's all. If you can distribute to the local brāhmaṇas, important, some . . . (indistinct) . . . silk cloth, and grains, and . . . they will come. And let them cook themselves and take prasādam and do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Hari-śauri: I think the local brāhmaṇas will be very pleased to be connected with the opening of such a big temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's better. Better to involve the local people. South Indian people will come, take money, and go back to South. No use.
Prabhupāda: Local brāhmaṇa will be . . . where is Bhavānanda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda? He's in . . . they'll check. Want to call Bhavānanda? He's with Dr. Ghosh.
Prabhupāda: Ha. (pause)
Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: So, what doctor says?
Bhavānanda: I was just discussing with them. They've given a, a series of medicines. That one doctor, Dr. Gopal, he said that you have a chronic kidney infection, and they both, Dr. Ghosh and Dr. Gopal, say it is very serious, that if it's not treated, that it could develop into uremia, which is . . . could be fatal. So he's given a whole group of medicines. However, the medicines can be combined. They say everything is functioning well, but the kidneys are not. Renial, they call it renial infection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Renal. Renal damage.
Bhavānanda: Chronic. And Dr. Gopal, just like all of the other doctors, both Āyurvedic or allopathic, they all insist that you have to take more liquid. They said that you should measure how much you pass urine today. Say you pass 250 cc's of urine. That means that tomorrow you should take that amount plus 400 more in liquid. Each day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Always 400 more than the urine passed.
Bhavānanda: Four hundred more than you passed urine the day before. You should take any sort of liquid—milk, juices, water, anything. He also said that you have to take rich protein foods—milk, curd, chānā, Proteinex, fruits, juices . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But milk causes mucus for Prabhupāda.
Bhavānanda: They say that the lungs are . . . anyway . . .
Hari-śauri: They haven't seen the difficulty that Prabhupāda has in bringing this stuff up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better to avoid milk.
Bhavānanda: Milk . . . there has to be some protein.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chānā seemed good. Today you had the curd. It seems to have been all right. The cheese this morning, Prabhupāda. I don't notice any cough today.
Prabhupāda: Cough generates later on.
Hari-śauri: Yes. It usually comes about half a day or a day later.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.
Hari-śauri: After it's been in the stomach for awhile.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (low voice) What about all these people being in the same room? Did you ask the doctor about that? . . . (indistinct)
Hari-śauri: The Proteinex is good because that is made from soya. It's not made from milk base. So that may not cause mucus.
Bhavānanda: So we can try.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatjī says that this Dr. Gopal is the best doctor in Mathurā district. Very, very expert doctor he said. He seemed pretty competent.
Bhavānanda: Competent and confident.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, very confident. He disagreed with Dr. Ghosh on a number of points. He did not advise Lassix tablet, this Dr. Gopal. Just like the surgeon in London also did not advise. He said that . . . then he explained why, and Dr. Ghosh agreed.
Bhavānanda: Also he said that you shouldn't take . . . what is it? Hydrogen peroxide rinse in the mouth. He said that could be very dangerous.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said because of the fact that your mouth is not normal. It doesn't salivate as much as someone else's. So some of the hydrogen peroxide might remain there, and then it might be swallowed. He advised a much milder mouthwash.
Bhavānanda: And he gave one tablet . . . he said that you should only take one half tablet in the morning in place of the Lassix. It's a very, very mild dialysis for the swelling. He said it's not . . . he doesn't want to give any sort of . . . very, very mild. He also said that your feet should be raised on two pillows or the bed, at the end of the . . . the fohot of the bed, should be raised on one brick on each side. That will reduce the swelling a great deal, he said. Most important though, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we increase the liquid intake for flushing the kidneys, and it will give you some strength. Now your condition is so weak.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Prabhupāda, your condition has become much weaker since you stopped eating more and more. In Bombay, when you had more strength, you were eating . . . at least drinking three times what you are drinking now. So if you gradually increase your drinking, your strength will come back. As long as you're passing urine, it means it's being digested all right.
Bhavānanda: Everyone . . . all the doctors agree that your liver and digestion, spleen, is all in good working order.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the blood pressure is normal. It's 130. It's very reduced, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's normal blood pressure now.
Bhavānanda: But he said that your pulse is so weak that every 18 beats it skips a beat, misses, because you're in such weakened state.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he was hopeful in general.
Prabhupāda: Dr. Gopal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Is he still here, Dr. Gopal?
Bhavānanda: Yes, he's still here. So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think that we should . . . Dr. Ghosh has come all this distance, and he'll get very upset if we don't at least try this course of medicines. I think that we should try and see what happens. It was a lot of medicines, but they can be combined together in one dosage—once in the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening, so it won't be all the time having to take.
Hari-śauri: It can be drunk down with some liquid as well.
Bhavānanda: Yes. You can mix it with fruit juices or . . .
Prabhupāda: So do it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to take rest now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (end)