771016 - Conversation A - Vrndavana
(Conversation about 10th Canto)
Prabhupāda: They are taking Hindi books like hotcakes.
Abhirāma: But he's complaining . . .
Abhirāma: . . . that they're not arriving. (break)
Prabhupāda: We can work little. (break) . . .here and sit down. (break) . . . is the spelling of your name Avirāma or Abhirāma?
Abhirāma: When you initiated me, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you, at least in the letter, it was spelled Avhi, Avhi. But generally you call me Abhi.
Prabhupāda: Avirāma means without tiresomeness.
Hari-śauri: Without what?
Abhirāma: Tiresomeness. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: And abhirāma means always chanting Rāma.
Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the initiation letter you said that it means one who is affectionate to Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Always chanting.
Abhirāma: I should be always chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a nasty world. (devotees chuckle) The only safety is to take shelter of Rāma. Harer nāma harer nāma . . . (CC Adi 17.21). Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). When there are so many material inconveniences . . . tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā (CC Adi 17.31). Very nasty world.
Yaśodānandana: Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31).
Abhirāma: That Abhirāma, that is the associate of Mahāprabhu? That is different.
Abhirāma: There is one associate of Mahāprabhu, Abhirāma.
Prabhupāda: Both may be, Abhirāma or Avirāma. Both carries meaning. Abhirāma is better. (break) . . . you can give . . .
Abhirāma: He's going to come just where I am, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He's going to sit just here. (break)
Pradyumna: This is verse number 44. It says,
- evaṁ sammohayan viṣṇuṁ
- vimohaṁ viśva-mohanam
- svayaiva māyayājo 'pi
- svayam eva vimohitaḥ
- (SB 10.13.44)
Prabhupāda: Word meaning?
Pradyumna: Evam—thus, in this way; sammohayan . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. He wanted to mystify Kṛṣṇa and His companions. He himself became mohitaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that means Kṛṣṇa's mystic power more than him.
Pradyumna: Here it's said, sammohayan viṣṇum. Viṣṇum—the all-pervading Lord Kṛṣṇa. So Viṣṇu (Sanskrit). Vimoham—He who can never come under illusion, Viṣṇu, vimoham
Prabhupāda: Vimoham, yes.
Prabhupāda: He cannot be mystified.
Pradyumna: Viśva-mohanam . . .
Prabhupāda: He is mystifying the whole universe.
Pradyumna: Svayaiva māyayā—by his own mystic power?
Prabhupāda: He became mystified, Brahmā.
Pradyumna: Ajo 'pi.
Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.
Pradyumna: Svayam eva vimohitaḥ—he himself became bewildered.
Prabhupāda: Each word clear?
Pradyumna: Yes. Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then the meaning will be clear. In this way, if we finish one verse, and that is complete. Is that not?
Pradyumna: Yes. Then I . . . I made some notes from these ṭīkās. I can read ?
Prabhupāda: No, the word meaning finished?
Pradyumna: Word meaning finished, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then translation.
Pradyumna: I'll read this anuvāda.
Prabhupāda: Read the Bengali.
Pradyumna: (Bengali—Brahmā to kariyā)
Prabhupāda: Brahmā . . . Bhagavān . . . Brahmā wanted to bewilder Kṛṣṇa, who is bewildering the whole universe.
Pradyumna: Viśva . . .
Prabhupāda: Do you follow?
Pradyumna: Yes. (Bengali—Viṣṇur to hailena)
Prabhupāda: The . . . this . . . mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The whole universe is under His mystic power, and Brahmā wanted to mystify Him. The result is that on the contrary, Brahmā himself became mystified. It is clear?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: "I wanted to kill you, but you kill me." This is the position. (laughs) So these scientists and other philosophers, they want to overcome the mystic power of Kṛṣṇa, challenging Kṛṣṇa, "What is God? We can do this. We can do that." The more they are doing this, they are more implicated and suffering. This is the position.
Pradyumna: (aside) It's recording all right. It's recording all right. Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I was just seeing if it was recording all right.
Prabhupāda: The instruct is we should not try to overcome Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: In such? We should not . . .?
Prabhupāda: Try to overcome Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). We should surrender unto Him instead of endeavoring to surpass Him.
Pradyumna: Then Viśvanātha Cakravartī, tataś ca brahmā moha samūdra varte nipapātā ityāḥ evam iti. In previous verse it said Brahmā was ciraṁ dhyātvā sa ātma-bhūḥ. He could not understand.
Pradyumna: So tataś ca brahmā moha samūdra varte nipapātā ityāḥ evam iti.
Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated. He could not understand what He was doing.
Pradyumna: Then he says samohayan . . .
Prabhupāda: Brahmā is the chief person within this universe. He became so much bewildered, what to speak of so-called scientists and philosophers. We should not make such attempt. The best thing is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). We should give up all our teeny efforts to defy the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Better whatever arrangement He is proposing, do like this. This is Bhagavad-gītā. That will make us happy. Is this clear?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (plays last portion of tape back) Then it says samohayan vatsa-bāla-steyena. So samohayan vatsa-bāla-steyena, "By stealing the vatsa and bālas," mohayitum upakramamāṇaḥ . . . Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, "Just beginning to try to make him illusioned." (Sanskrit to mohitah)
Prabhupāda: I have already explained that.
Prabhupāda: Instead of bewildering Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit—mohitasyāpi to mityarthaḥ)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. As we are trying to defeat the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, we are becoming implicated in Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It cannot be. And better . . . mām eva ye prapadyante (BG 7.14). Anyone who agrees to surrender to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, māyām etāṁ taranti, he is liberated. He is free from kṛṣṇa-māyā. Just like government force you cannot overcome. First of all there are laws, then there is police power, then there is military power—one after another. What is the use of trying to overcome government power? This is, is . . . so . . .
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit—na tu to iti)
Prabhupāda: Yes. He became defeated by his own attempt.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit—māyyāḥ to ca)
Prabhupāda: In the next verse it is clear that Kṛṣṇa can't be defeated by any kind of mystic power.
Pradyumna: And there's one on this same verse. Sanātana Gosvāmī says one thing.
Pradyumna: Yes. Vaiṣṇava-toṣaṇī. (Sanskrit—sammohayan to ityataḥ) Desiring to . . .
Prabhupāda: Actually, Brahmā came to bewilder Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is . . . actually we see: even little power, with scientific knowledge, they are trying to defy, "What is God?" And Brahmā, who is the chief person within the universe, he will become such bewildered, and there is astonishment. And this is the position of conditioned soul.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit—evam to sam-śabdaḥ)
Prabhupāda: Sammohita means?
Pradyumna: He says, sammohana. So what is this sam? Sam-śabda tad . . . (Sanskrit)
Pradyumna: Sam is there, so, but he cannot . . . samyak mohana kṛṣṇa. So why is it there? (Sanskrit tad to eva) According his abhiprāya was there, but not actually doing.
Prabhupāda: His purpose was to mystify Kṛṣṇa, but he himself became mystified.
Pradyumna: And he has a note on the word viṣṇu. Viṣṇum iti sarva vyāpa kaṁ māyā tasya (Sanskrit—to bhava).
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu, the whole material world . . . Brahmā is one of the portion. There are . . . Aṇḍāntara . . . how many universes? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (BS 5.48). Nāthāḥ, plural number. So there are innumerable universes, and this Brahmā is a teeny four-headed. That was exhibited in Dvārakā when Kṛṣṇa called for Brahmā. So what he can do to bewilder Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible. You pick up the idea.
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then it will be nice purport.
Pradyumna: And there's one interesting note, Vīrarāghavācārya. He says in the verse there is svayaiva māyayā. So he says, svayaiva māyayā iti anena sva-śarīraka paramātmā māyayā iti vivakṣitam. Paramātmā, in his sva-śarīraka paramātmā māyayā, paramātmā, his own body, had . . .
Prabhupāda: Upendra can give me little honey in my mouth.
Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I can give you the honey?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's . . . avirāma, "always working."
Pradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to do the next verse?
Prabhupāda: If you like. Otherwise, make this verse correctly. Then take up the next.
Pradyumna: Yes. Everything was very nicely explained, Śrīla Prabhupāda, very . . .
Prabhupāda: Pick up the words. Set up in right place. It will be nice. In this way, slow but sure. Then, even in this condition, I can help you. There is no question of hurrying. Finish one verse, husband and wife, one day. And make it everything clear. Eh?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Vīrarāghavācārya, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Viśvanātha Cakravartī. We are just trying to explain their ideas. We are teeny.
Pradyumna: I think your commentary on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go down in history as one of the most . . . one of the best commentaries. It will go down.
Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Let us try for that. (takes honey) Hmm . . . therefore I said: "Upendra," (laughter) because it is solidified.
Abhirāma: I'll bring liquid. Most of that honey is solidified.
Prabhupāda: Why? He knows how to liquidify. (long pause)
Jayādvaita: You were saying that we should do one verse in one day, Śrīla Prabhupāda? And do it thoroughly?
Prabhupāda: Then I think you can do it very nicely. Yes.
Jayādvaita: Yes. Each purport will be very rich that way.
Jayādvaita: It will be very much appreciated.
Prabhupāda: Or you bring one morning one, like that. There is no need of being hurry. Hmm?
Prabhupāda: You can discuss amongst yourselves. Pick up the right word and place. Then it will be very nice.
Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Bās. No more want.
Abhirāma: It wasn't good?
Prabhupāda: Not bad. We shall see tomorrow. Give me little water. And with some wet handkerchief . . .
Abhirāma: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: In this way let us pull on. Fight between māyā. Hmm. (temple bell rings 4 times) Hmm. (break) Sit up for a while and chant beads. (end)