770519 - Conversation - Vrndavana
(Conversation with M.P. Shri Sita Ram Singh)
Sita Ram Singh: I came from Delhi. I got down here: "I want holy darśanas."
Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)
Sita Ram Singh: He told me, "He's not keeping good health . . ." "Of course, I won't speak to him, but simply I will have his darśana." Because you are superhuman being . . . (Prabhupāda chuckles) Everyone wants a blessing of persons like you. What you have done, and to remember these things . . . One feels himself satisfied only after having your darśana. You do me this favor . . .
Prabhupāda: You . . . You belong to Delhi?
Sita Ram Singh: No, I belong to Bihar. I come from the constituency of the . . . (explains where he is coming from, about his family, political party, etc. very indistinct) On the way I got down here, and I was so fortunate I got darśana. Mathura . . . (indistinct) . . . . . .told me, "You can have your prasāda here." But "I shall take a part of prasāda." But the prasāda what I want, I want darśana. And if you have got any sympathy for me, kindly . . .
Prabhupāda: I have got sympathy for everyone.
Sita Ram Singh: Ah, yes.
Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, nobody cares to hear.
Sita Ram Singh: That's right.
Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?
Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument . . . So our proposal is that unless the limbs are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the limbs of Bhagavad-gītā, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties—Ch.D. D.A.C. Ph.D . . .
Sita Ram Singh: (laughs) All they have got is party for their own selfish end. Actually it's taking north to south. Though I belong toward the party, but I must . . . (indistinct) . . . Because they have all got their own selfish aims.
Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.
Sita Ram Singh: Same distressed.
Prabhupāda: Rather, they are more distressed. Take, for example, in our childhood my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we were not very rich men, but we had no want. Father was maintaining his family, getting children married, distributing the wealth. Everything very nice. And we never felt any want. In this mango season, because father thought it that "There must be a full basket of mangoes daily for the children," so we were jumping, playing and eating mangoes. And now, taking consideration of gold standard . . . At that time my mother was purchasing gold, twenty rupees . . .
Sita Ram Singh: Per tolā.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-two rupees. Now the same gold is six hundred rupees. So three hundred times more?
Sita Ram Singh: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If my father's income was three hundred rupees, increased by three hundred, it becomes nine thousand. So where is the nine-thousand-rupees income for a middle-class man?
Sita Ram Singh: Quite.
Prabhupāda: Nine thousand rupees', ten thousand rupees' income is for very, very big man. But comparing, say, sixty, seventy years ago, we were a middle-class man. So a middle-class man has not increased his income from three hundred rupees to ten thousand rupees. That means everybody has become poor. So where is the advancement? Simply beating the drum, will this . . .? In our childhood we have seen mustard oil, first class, made in Kanpur. We were purchasing, eight annas per two and a half ser.
Sita Ram Singh: And now it has gone thirteen rupees.
Prabhupāda: Thirteen rupees.
Sita Ram Singh: Thirteen rupees in our time.
Prabhupāda: Ghee, first-class ghee, we were purchasing, one rupee, Vardwa(?) ghee. Now what is the price of ghee?
Indian man (1): Twenty-five.
Sita Ram Singh: Twenty rupees.
Indian man (1): Twenty, twenty-five. Between twenty and twenty-five, depending upon the place.
Prabhupāda: That means between twenty-five to thirty times, the price has increased. But income has not increased.
Indian man (1): Not in the real sense.
Prabhupāda: No sense. All nonsense.
Indian man (1): No sense. Not at all.
Sita Ram Singh: No sense. No sense at all.
Prabhupāda: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All over the world . . . Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to śāstra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer, because they are becoming godless. They must suffer. That is nature's punishment.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ
- (BG 7.14)
They won't take the real culture given by God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, "Do like this." Therefore they are godless. They must suffer. Now the suffering is awaiting to the general mass of people. Durbhikṣa . . . Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rain from the sky, and therefore there will be no sufficient grains. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa. And in the name of improving the situation, government will tax. Kara-pīḍitāḥ. In this way, so the people in general, they'll be so much harassed that without being able to manage things . . . Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. "Let whatever I may have to the family eating. Let me go." This is the position.
Sita Ram Singh: What will be the future of India?
Prabhupāda: This will be future. Anywhere. Why you are speaking of India? What is spoken in the śāstra, that is not for India or for Bihar. It is for everywhere.
Sita Ram Singh: And the situation is going from bad to worse. Will it go . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. And at the end there will be no wheat, no rice, no sugar, no milk, and you'll have to eat . . . I shall eat your flesh; you shall eat my flesh. They are eating already fetus of their own sons. What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In some countries in the West . . .
Prabhupāda: Do they not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In some countries in the West they perform this operation for . . . What do they call it?
Indian man (1): Abortion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Abortion. They have legalized abortion. So the unborn fetus, after it's aborted, they're eating as food.
Sita Ram Singh: They have devised also even in India also. I don't know about . . .
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said, "Why do you speak of this country?" This will happen everywhere.
Sita Ram Singh: If such pāpa hoga,(?) how one can expect betterment of the nation?
Prabhupāda: Pāpa? (Hindi) Prakṛteḥ kriya . . . (BG 3.27)
Indian man (1): Is there any way out?
Prabhupāda: Where the Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . Why don't you come? You'll not come. You'll stick to your own principle. Here is the way out: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti (BG 7.14). "No." You'll make your own party, that's all, and suffer. What can be done? You'll never take good advice from Kṛṣṇa. You'll take advice from Indira Gandhi. That's it.
Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi) And discontentment.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. (Hindi) Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are trying to adjust things by the external nature. (Hindi) Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na . . . (Hindi) Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy.
Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) "I will explain." And "Who cares for you?" (Hindi conversation) Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). (Hindi) Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate. He is a rascal who is thinking, "I am independent." Rascal number one. Everyone is thinking, "Ah! I am independent." What is their independence? Hmm? (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) (break) (Hindi conversation) We are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. (Hindi) . . . compromise and interpretation . . . (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Sita Ram Singh: So all, all over world . . .
Prabhupāda: All over the world.
Sita Ram Singh: . . .you have got this culture.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) . . .permanent residence. (Hindi conversation) They have been described as Hindu, "Hindu Americans." (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Indian man (3): No, but is there any facility for getting Indian citizenship?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't want citizenship. What they will do with citizen . . . Indian citi . . .?
Indian man (3): Then what is the difficulty?
Prabhupāda: Difficulty is . . . Let them live here as permanent residents, just like I am American permanent resident. I am not citizen. If I like, I can become citizen. But what is the use of becoming citizen? It is as good as citizen. (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: Within that period they have to go back.
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course, they have to go back, but . . .
Prabhupāda: No, extension . . . (Hindi) Generally.
Indian man (3): They don't give you this for permanent residentship . . .
Indian man (3): . . . even, say, for two years, four years, five years . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. No.
Sita Ram Singh: But this is amended. (Hindi) . . . this is amended. This must be amended. This should be brought to the knowledge of authorities.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Sita Ram Singh: Why do they not allow them to stay to serve the mission?
Prabhupāda: So we have no . . . We don't think anything in the . . .
Sita Ram Singh: Rajbhai Sampatte, he's a religious-minded man.
Sita Ram Singh: And he should make a point. But the case should be just signed. Of course, a mandate of residency(?) of your admission should also be . . .
Indian man (3): Could the government not do the such and such . . .
Prabhupāda: "Go out!" (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: So he came elected. Because he's in power, Rajbhai is in power, whatever he has got . . .
Prabhupāda: But who will induce him to give up?
Indian man (3): If he can . . . He can relax it.
Prabhupāda: He can do everything, but who will induce him to do?
Sita Ram Singh: I don't know when I shall go to Delhi again, but in case if I go, I will bear it in mind. But meanwhile, I shall humbly request you that some of persons of your mission should also go and should bring him here so that he can find out a time to come to this mission. And because after seeing the all activities of the mission he may be rather much more convinced of the fact that this resolution(?) should be abolished. It is a special case. For the missionary purpose this should be abolished.
Prabhupāda: Missionary visa . . . (Hindi) That because he's Vaiṣṇava, he'll not go.
Sita Ram Singh: You say seven lakhs of rupees are unnecessarily used every year.
Prabhupāda: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our boys. (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi) Rather, the Constitution is molded from bad to worse. This point should be repaired. I have got belief on that. So this money . . .
Sita Ram Singh: When I go next time to Delhi I shall write letter. I have got address of this mission here. I shall write a letter here, and one of the representatives will go. I will give that . . .
Prabhupāda: No, you can speak to Mr. Vajpayi. He is in charge of foreigners. (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: This matter can be brought before Vajpayi because he is charge of foreign affairs. (Hindi conversation)
Indian man (3): Rules needing certain ammendment. (Hindi conversation) (end).