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770509 - Conversation - Hrishikesh

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770509ED-HRISHIKESH - May 09, 1977 - 84:43 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Indian man (1): (laughing) Pahadi ilaka jo he yun to hamare yahan electricity band rehti he . . . pahadi elaka jo he usme jo andhi tufan ayenge . . . (The hilly areas which are there, usually there is no electricity . . . thunderstorms come in the hilly areas . . .)

Prabhupāda: The thing is that we have to . . . shall I speak in Hindi or in English? There are others . . .

Indian man (1): Most of us, we can follow in English. You speak in English, we can follow.

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want . . . just like England: there is no food, food grain. They have . . . everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Actually, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we are His sons. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that, "Indians are My sons." Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4): "In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way. Otherwise they'll suffer continually. They are suffering, and they will continue. (aside) They have come to disturb.

So that philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are trying to distribute all over the world, and they are accepting. This is the first time in the history of the world that foreigners, they are becoming devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Now, in the history of the world there was no temple outside India, neither devotee also.

Indian man (1): The entire credit goes to you, sir.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately, our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual . . .

So there are two sides. (aside) Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the things. Now you should reform them in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and real United Nations will be formed. There will be no question of nationality. In the Bhagavad-gītā . . . big, big leaders, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but is there any word as "nationalism"?

Indian man (1): None.

Prabhupāda: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that, "I am student." They do not understand even a line of. This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1): Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): Gandhijī believed in trusteeship theory of Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: Trusteeship . . . trustee . . . who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1): Or He's the owner.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So He's the owner, and if you follow Kṛṣṇa, then you become trustee. You do not follow Kṛṣṇa; you are unworthy of trusteeship. You interpret in a different way Kṛṣṇa. Even sometimes you say that, "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious." Do you not do? Don't you say like that?

Indian man (1): No, not . . .

Indian man (2): Very passing reference he made once.

Prabhupāda: Why? That means he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (3): Who made this reference? Who made this passing reference, where Kṛṣṇa is fictitious?

Indian man (2): Gandhi made . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhijī.

Indian man (2): . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: I don't speak especially of Gandhi, but there are so many. Everyone takes Bhagavad-gītā and misinterprets in his way. Why? Boliye. (Tell me.) Why they should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? What right they have got?

Indian man: Apke vichaar dhara se is paristhiti se kabhi upar bhi aya jayega. Apke vichaar dhara se yo jo hamare rajneeti ki jo halat he is se upar aa kar ke desh ko vastavik Bhagavad-gītā ka arth samajhne ka adhikar milega. (By your ideology, we will come out of this situation someday. By your ideology, the current political situation which is there, we can come out of this and the country will be able to understand the actual meaning of Bhagavad-gītā.)

Prabhupāda: Mushkil nahi he samajhne me. Ye jo kyun misinterpret karte hain, apna bhi sarvanash karte hain dusre ka bhi karte hain. Bhagwan swayam bol rahe hain ki: (It's not difficult to understand. Why do they misinterpret, they cause downfall for themselves and others also. The Lord himself is saying:) evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa (BG 4.2). Kyunki Parampara chut gaya to wo log nast hogaya. (Because paramparā is lost, they are destroyed.) So paramparā, in the paramparā system, the system remains in order. And that is our way of life. Our . . . we are in India. These men have come newly under Western education, but we have got paramparā system, just like Rāmānuja's paramparā, Madhvācārya's paramparā, Viṣṇu Svāmī paramparā. Still there is. Śrī-sampradāya, Madhva-sampradāya, Viṣṇu Svāmī . . .

Indian man (1): Disciplic succession.

Prabhupāda: Succession, yes. So Kṛṣṇa said that the real truth is in the paramparā system. You cannot take anything and misinterpret. Then it is lost. Suppose from the very beginning of my life I have been taught by my father that this is called Dictaphone. Now, if I misinterpret in a different way, then it is lost. "Call a spade a spade." And Kṛṣṇa very distinctly says that, "Because that paramparā system is now lost, I am again speaking to you." Purātana. Find out this word, purātana. Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Why He is speaking purātana, not new definition? Boliye.

Devotee (1): Should I read, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1):

sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya
yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ
bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti
rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam
(BG 4.3)

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning.

Indian man (2): Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupāda: Read it again.

Devotee (1): "That very ancient science of the relation . . ."

Prabhupāda: No, no, that verse, śloka, you . . .

Devotee (1): Sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya . . . (BG 4.3).

Prabhupāda: Sa eva. Aham.

Devotee (1): Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ . . .

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that, "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in a new way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. Boliye isme apko kya bolna he.Bade bade acharya log bhagavān uvāca. (Tell me what you have to say in this. Big big acarya and they say Bhagavān uvāca.) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. Wo ye kehte hain ki hum bhagwan se bhi jyada hai. (They say we are even above God.) Rascal ideas. Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. Ye mushkil hai. Sab apna apna manufacture karte hain aur Krishna bola he. (This is the difficulty. Everyone manufactures their own and then say Kṛṣṇa said this.) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedāntist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedāntists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedāntist . . . he was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedāntist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside) Hmm, don't do it.

Indian man (1): He was bhakta and sakhā.

Prabhupāda: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakhā, or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya . . . that is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order . . . he was not even human being, animal, bandar (monkey) not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped with love. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rasa, in some particular position. That is bhakta.

So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakti. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world—immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is going on. Ab iska kya dawa den bolo . . . ab usi ka actions me they are struggling. (Tell me what medicines to give for this . . . they are struggling with their own actions.) We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees. Lekin hamare country me, usko bhulne me, jo wo sikha hai usko bhulne me teen janam lag jayega. (But in our country—to forget, to forget what they have learned it will take three lifetimes.)

Indian man (4): Kuch aisi asha ho rahi he ki ap jaise mahapurushon ki praytnon se hamare desh me . . . (indistinct) . . . (We are getting hopes that because of the efforts of legendary people like you, in our country . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Hona chahiye baki dusre taraf se samajhna chahiye ki . . . (It should happen but from the other side, they should understand that . . .) that why we shall misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa was less intelligent, that He left Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by some rascal philosopher or politician? He was not intelligent enough to clear the idea? If Kurukṣetra is meant "body," why you should bring in the name of Kurukṣetra the bodily conception of life? What is this? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ, māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāḥ (BG 1.1). Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre is still there. Why Kurukṣetra should be interpreted as something else?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned the reader in this translation.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned the reader to read the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that, "Bhagavad-gītā should be utilized for my rascaldom." This is going on. Ye sab chodiye. Bhagavad-gītā as it is lijiye. Ap sab sukhi honge. Ye hum logon ka karya he. (Leave all this. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You all will be happy. This is our task.) This is our mission. Don't manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.

Indian man (3): This, all about nation, internationalness . . .

Prabhupāda: First of all, there is no question of nationalism. It is all bogus.

Indian man (3): No, that you have spoken. Our request is how best we can implement the teachings of Gītā in these critical days . . .

Prabhupāda: It is already there. It is already there. You kindly take it.

Indian man (3): How to implemant in our daily life . . .?

Prabhupāda: You understand. The difficulty is you do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. Still, you say that you are student of Bhagavad-gītā. This is difficulty.

Indian man (3): I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student—śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7): "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that 'How I can kill such enemies who are my family members?' This is my problem." (aside) Here is a makkhi. Ek makkhi kitna pareshan karti hai. (One fly creates so much disturbance.)

Indian man (3): There are two. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Aisi duniya hai, hum log udhar sukhi honge? Makkhiyan ghar me khatam kar deti hai . . . (The world is like this, will we be happy there? A fly in home destroys the . . .) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana, three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned . . .?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam . . . (BG 2.13). So as we are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? Boliye. Jawab dijiye. (Now say. Answer me.) If you have to change your body . . . today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Trivikrama: Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Today you are European; tomorrow you become Indian. And today you are man; tomorrow you become a dog. If you have got love for your country, but your work is doggish, then you become a dog. And who cares for the national dog? The street dog and the . . . at night he takes charge of the street. Nobody has appointed him, but he takes charge, and whole night, "Gow! Gow!" If somebody, new man, enters the neighborhood, "I am in charge." You see? "Why you have entered?" So this is going on. "I am leader of this country." So what is this civilization? Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the leader." He says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29): "I am the leader. I am the friend, well-wisher of everyone." And if a dog says, "I am the leader. I am the well-wisher," so which way we shall go? I shall accept the dog as leader and well-wisher or Kṛṣṇa? Boliye. A barking dog or Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man (2): Naturally Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "I can adjust things." So we are not taking it. Har tarah se, (From all angles,) From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gītā, everything is perfectly clear. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehāntare. If you simply take, accept Kṛṣṇa as He says, then what is result? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti (BG 4.9). Punar janma, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly—it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned, if we understand Kṛṣṇa—then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

So that is the real problem. We are solving problems—this problem, that problem, that . . . they are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem, because the fly is meant for that purpose. How . . . you cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him. This is not problem, how to drive away the fly. The real problem, Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, that you are in the cycle of birth, death . . . tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You get another life and you suffer. Again you get another life. This is your problem. So that problem, Kṛṣṇa says, that "You can solve it. Simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā deham (BG 4.9). That is our business. But we are being deviated from the real business, and we are being engaged in so-called this ism, that ism, that ism. This is spoiling the whole thing.

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
māṁ aprāpya nivartante
(BG 9.3)

This life, this human form of life, is meant for understanding the real problem of life and to solve it. This is the opportunity. And Kṛṣṇa personally coming to instruct you, "You solve in this way." But we are so doggish, we will not take. What can be done? Then become a dog. Nature's law will work. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). If you remain doggish—you do not become a human being—then, all right, you become a dog next life. Tathā dehāntara-prā . . . then take life of the street and "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This . . . for this purpose we request every one of you that you study Bhagavad-gītā very seriously as it is, apply it in your practical life and teach it to others. That is perfection. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that "You become guru, everyone." (break) You simply repeat. Don't misinterpret. Boliye. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . every one of you become a guru, not a bluffer, but a guru, real guru. "How real guru? I can become? I have no qualification." Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128): "You simply take the words of Kṛṣṇa and preach." Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). You simply repeat, "Sir, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being, God." What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says: "There is no superior authority than Me." You simply say, "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority." That's all. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām . . . you preach, "Come here in the temple. See Kṛṣṇa's Deity and always think of Him." Where is the difficulty? Now these Europeans and Americans, what I have done to them? I have not given any bribe. I say: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is God." They accept it, worship Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Just if you cannot do anything, just offer one obeisances, namaskāra. Any child can do. They have done it, and they are going ahead. Kya mushkil hai. An shan bakta hai sab. (What is the difficulty? They speak all nonsense.) Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa is there, perfect upadeśa. Usme interpretation karke aur an shan bak kar ke apna time bhi barbad aur dusre ka time bhi barbad. Ye sab chalta hai. You should stop it. Jo hogaya hogaya, ab ye sab khatam kijiye. (By Interpreting that and speaking nonsense, you are wasting your time and the time of others. This all is going on. You should stop it. Whatever happened has happened, now stop all this.) As Kṛṣṇa says, you try to assimilate it and distribute it. There is no diffi . . . Hum jo credit dete hain, yadi hamare credit me jugglery jab usko sona bana kar deta hai aur magic waise hi . . . (The credit which we give, if in our credit there is any jugglery, like how the goldsmith makes the gold and it's like magic just like that . . .) Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nān . . . Hum kyun samjhaye, jaise Kṛṣṇa says, Yahi samjhane ke liye hum 84 books likha. (Why should we explain. Like Kṛṣṇa says, to explain this I have written 84 books.) Eighty-four books, each book, four hundred pages, in ten years. And we are selling, collecting by selling books, five to six lakh of rupees daily in foreign countries. What is that qualification? We have tried to convince people that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BS 5.1). God he baki paramaḥ Īśvaraḥ. (There is God but there is the paramaḥ Īśvaraḥ.) "The Supreme Being is Kṛṣṇa." Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Formless nahi, nirakaar nahi. (Not formless.) Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Vigrahaḥ bata rahe hain, Vigrahaḥ ka artha hota hai form, formless nahi. (It's said Vigrahaḥ—the meaning of Vigrahaḥ is form, not formless.) Form. Formlessness. Formless is another feature, but real feature is Śyāmasundara. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam.

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa . . .
govindam ādi-puruṣam . . .
(BS 5.38)

The Govinda, Śyāmasundara, dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara. Here is the Supreme Being. Take His instruction. Always think of Him. You become perfect. Where is the difficulty? Boliye. Kyun ap difficult position create karte hain? (Tell me. Why do you create difficult positions?) Why do you create difficult position? This is going on. Ustaadi dikhana he, Ki hum bada ustaad he, Kṛṣṇa se hum bada hai? Ye sab chalta hai. Ustaadi sab chodo. (Trying to be cunning, that we are a big expertise, are we bigger than Kṛṣṇa? All this is going on. Leave all this cunningness.) Surrender to Kṛṣṇa, follow His instruction and be happy. Boliye isme apko kuch kehna he. (Tell me do you have to say something on this.)

Indian man (4): Ustaadi kaise jaye Gurudev? (How to get rid of cunningness teacher?)

Prabhupāda: Ustaadi he wo alag, ek to ustaadi jayega jab usko juta se pita jaye. Wo chal raha hai. Itna behaya he juta pitte pitte bhi bolta hai 'hamara kya nuksaan hoga tumahra juta tut jayega'. (Cunningness is there—that is separate, cunningness will go when they are beaten by shoes. This is all going on. They are so shameless even while getting beaten by shoes he says, "There will be no loss for me, your shoes will break".)

Indian man (1): Shameless.

Prabhupāda: Usko juta se pitiye to bolta hai hamara kya nuksaan hoga, tumhara juta tut jayega. Isko kaise sudharega? Isko aise mentality hai to juta maro. (If you beat him with shoes he says, what loss will happen to me, your shoes will only break. How will you rectify them? If there is such a mentality, they should be beaten by shoes.) "I don't care for you." Juta kya maya kam marta hai. Maya ka kam hi hai khoob juta lagao. Ek to ye hai rasta jiske liye maya ko bhej diya gaya he, ye sare bache logon ko khub juta lagao. Mama māyā. Māyā ke hath se to chutkara nahi ho sakta. (Does māyā throw any less shoes. The work of māyā is to throw plenty of shoes. This is one cause for which Maya has been sent, to throw plenty of shoes on these people. Mama māyā, you can get rid of the clutches of māyā.) Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). To ye difficulty ho raha he. Ustaad Hiranyakashiyapu usko juta lagate lagate kabhi uska buddhi khul jaye. Ek rasta wo hai khoob juta khao, aur ek rasta he: (So this is the difficulty which is happening. The cunning Hiranyakasiyapu, by beating him with shoes may be some time his intelligence will open up. So one way is to beat him with plenty of shoes, and the other way is:) mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. . . . (indistinct) . . . aur koi dusra rasta nahi hai. (. . . (indistinct) . . . there is no other way.)

Indian man: Surrender ke sambandh me aur kuch prakash daliye prabhuji. (Please throw some light on the topic of surrender Prabhu.)

Indian man: Kis roop se Surrender karna he. Surrender ka matlab hai hamare buddhi ko hum bilkul kam me nahi lenge. (In which form should we surrender. Does surrender mean we will not make any use of our intelligence?)

Prabhupāda: Buddhi to hai hi nahi. Rascal ke buddhi ka kya kam hota he. Rascal ka chodiye,Kṛṣṇa jo bolte hain usko lijiye. Ap bolenge hum rascal bhi rahenge aur Surrender bhi karenge. Apka rascaldom jo he usko chodiye. Aur Kṛṣṇa jo bolta hai usko suniye. Hogaya. (There is no intelligence. What is the use of intelligence of a miscreant person? Leave about miscreant's, accept what Kṛṣṇa is saying. You will say I will remain a miscreant and at the same time surrender. Leave this mischievousness and listen to what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all.)

Indian man: Ye surrender ke concept ko aur detail me samjhaiye. (Please explain the concept of surrender in more detail.)

Prabhupāda: Surrender hai . . . believe kijiye Kṛṣṇa ko. (Surrender is . . . believing in Kṛṣṇa.) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. Usko sab chodo. (Leave all that.) Rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." Ye apka hath me hai, fir ap to chale jayenge manufacture karke . . . (This is in your hands, you will go after manufacturing all this . . .) ism, this ism, that ism, that ism. To ye rascaldom chodo. Kṛṣṇa says Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Baki tum Buddhiman ho acha acha rascalism bana sakte ho, ye sab chodo. Ab dekhiye Bhagavad-gītā discussion . . . (So leave this mischievousness. Kṛṣṇa says Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Rest of you are all intelligent, you can create nice mischief from this—so leave this mischievousness. Now look at the Bhagavad-gītā discussion . . .) The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Sab jagah nonviolence lagana chahate hain, kaise hoga? Wo Bhagavad-gītā jo ladai ka field me pehli baar kaha gaya . . . (Everywhere they want to add non violence, how will it be possible? That Bhagavad-gītā which was first spoken on the battlefield . . .) Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The first word is ladai (fighting), And you want to prove it, nonviolence. Ye rascaldom nahi he? Boliye? (Isn't this rascaldom? Tell me?) The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ. Yudh me non violence . . . kitna bada maha paap he. (Non violence in war . . . that's such a great sin.)

Indian man: Arjun ne bhi to ustaadi ki thi pehle fir . . . (Then even Arjuna showed cunningness first . . .)

Prabhupāda: Arjun ka baat chodiye, ap ka ustaadi, (laughing) aap jo ustaadi karte hain, jo yuyutsavaḥ word he uska artha yahi he normal ye kabhi ho sakta he? Ap kyun ye ustaadi karte hain. Jhut. Apne liye barbaad karte hain dusre ke liye barbaad karte hain. Politics me non violence kabhi hua he aur na kabhi ho sakte hai. Bade bade raja log, ladai karna hoga, marna hoga, wo sikaar karte the ki kis tarah se marna he, kyunki acahnak kisiko bole e mar de isko, wo nahi mar payega. Chote mote janwar ko marte marte usko practice hoga. Violence sikhaya jata hai. (Leave about Arjuna, your cunningness. (laughing) The cunningness which you show, that the word yuyutsavaḥ meaning is normal, is that ever possible? Why do you do this cheating. Lie. You are wasting it for you and for others as well. There wasn't non violence in politics ever and nor it's going to be. Big big kings, they will have to fight, they have to kill. They go hunting to practice killing, because suddenly if you tell him "Kill them", he can't kill. By killing small animals, he will practice. Violence was being taught.) Violence required to keep the society in order. Brahman bhi chahiye, Kshatriya bhi chahiye, vaishya bhi chahiye, shudra bhi chahiye. (Brahmins are required, ksatriyas are required, vaisayas are also required and so are sudras.) Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Khali brahman hi brahman bana diya to . . . (If you make only Brahmins then . . .) Who will give protection? Ye Sab scientific hai. Usko hum log le to upyog hoga aur ustaadi karen to . . . (indistinct) . . . yahi hua. To hum logon ka nivedan hai ustaadi chod dijiye. Kṛṣṇa jo bol rahe hain usko lijiye. Sab thik hoga. (This is all scientific. If we accept it, then it's beneficial and if we become cunning then . . . (indistinct) . . . that's all. So our request is to leave this cunningness. Accept what Kṛṣṇa is saying. Then everything will be good.)

Indian man: To Sanjay sahab ne bhi ustaadi ki thi, jat paat kuch nahi dekha, sab barabar . . . (Then Sanjaya Sir also did cunningness, he did see any caste, everybody were equal . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ap bhi kar rahe hain, sanjay ko sahab bolte hain. (You are also doing, you are calling Sanjaya Sir.)

Indian man: Ustaadi khatam hogayi. (Cunningness is finished.) (laughing)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Indian man: Jaati paati ki bahut jarurat hai. Uske bina koi chiz nahi hogi Hindustan me. (Caste system is also required. Without that nothing will happen in India.)

Prabhupāda: Ek upstart bacha, lampad, usko bana diya India ka . . . (An upstart kid they made him India's . . .)

Indian man: Prime minister

Prabhupāda: Ye to bhagwan save kiya tha. (The Lord saved it.)

Indian man: . . . (indistinct) . . . Apke ashirwad se save hua hai. (By your blessings it is saved.)

Prabhupāda: Cāṇakya Paṇḍita sadharan neeti me kehte hain . . . (indistinct) . . . (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says in sadharan neeti that . . . (indistinct) . . .) So "Don't trust woman and politician." This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahābhārata, there is not a single instance . . . we had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state . . .? Very, very qualified women. You know. Na svatantratām arhati, striyaḥ (Manu-saṁhitā). For woman there is no independence. The Manu-saṁhitā. They must stay under father, under husband or under elderly sons. Three stages. Kuntī . . .

Indian man (5): Pita rakshati kurmani . . . (A father protects the girl in her childhood.)

Prabhupāda: Jab tak shadi na ho baap. Ye to bees pachis baras pehle bhi yahi hamara image . . . (Until marriage is not done, it's the father. We had this same image even 20 to 25 years before . . .) A young girl cannot go out without father's, mother's . . . she cannot mix with any other young man. Strictly prohibited. To wohi sab chut gaya hai. (All this is gone.) If you want to revive real Indian civilization or Vedic civilization for the good of the whole human society, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be happy. There is no doubt. Aur sab hoshiyari chal rahi hai.(break) Ye jo sab bhumi pe ustaad, self made ustaad . . . ye sab chodo. Matlab pehle hi likha hai yuyutsavaḥ and you want normal, kya baat he boliye. (And all this cleverness is going on. (break) All these clever people on earth, self made cleverness . . . leave all this. It's already written yuyutsavaḥ, and you want normal. Tell me what is this.) Why do you try to undo something which is spoken by Bhagavān, Vyāsadeva? Kya Vyāsadeva dusra bhagwat nahi likh sakte hain? Vyāsadeva, jo ved ko doharane wale hain, wo likha hai yuyutsavaḥ (Couldn't Vyāsadeva write another Bhagwat? Vyāsadeva, who repeats the Vedas, he writes it yuyutsavaḥ) So how can you make nonviolence? Mahānutikram . . . mahājan ko atikram karna mahāpaap hai. Sastra bolte hain: (Mahānutikram . . . to breach a great personality is a great sin. The scripture says:) mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We are not following mahājana, but we are transgressing. To kaise hamara sukh hoga. Pehle hi to mislead hum apne ko kar diye. (So how will we get happiness? We have already misled ourselves.) (aside) Bring. Bring cutting. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. And mahājanas are also mentioned:

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kapila kumāraḥ manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
(SB 6.3.20)

Sab cheez hai . . . koi mushkil nahi. (Everything is there . . . there is no difficulty.) We want to become artificially rascal, mahājana. That is going on. Usi liye Kṛṣṇa bola he: (That is why Kṛṣṇa said:) sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66): "Whatever you have learned, forget." Mām ekam. Because he has become too much bewildered, He doesn't say anybody else. Mām ekam, word to the mūrkhas . . . śaraṇaṁ vraja. Isme kya apaati hai. Sab Bhagavad-gītā padhne wale hain, sara duniya. Ap ke ilake me Bhagavad-gītā charcha hota hai, fir kahan sikhaya hai Mām ekam . . . (What's the problem with that? Everybody reads Bhagavad-gītā, the whole world. In your area, there is discussion, so where is taught Mām ekam . . .)

Indian man: . . . (indistinct) . . . Ashram me jitne bhi lecture dete hain Gītā pe dete hain lekin koi ne ye cheez nahi bola hai. (In the ashram, whatever lecture they give, they give it on the Gītā but nobody talks about this.) . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Jante hi nahi Gītā ko lecture dete hain. Ye spast baat he. (They don't even know the Gītā but they give lectures. This is very clear.) Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Wo samajhte hain Kṛṣṇa hamare jaise vyakti hai. Kṛṣṇa bol sakte hain to hum bhi bol sakte hain. Yeh hai mūrakh. Wo jante hi nahi Kṛṣṇa ko, jante hi nahi. Kya bolenge. Isliye pehli hi bola he . . . Bhaktosi . . . jo pehchanta hai wo bol sakte hain. Sadharan nahi bol sakte hain. Fizul time waste hai. Sara Bhagavad-gītā se non violence ka lecture hai, to jo beginning word jo he yuyutsavaḥ uska kya meaning hai, boliye. Usko ulta sidha uda dene se fir Gītā kya bolna hai.Boliye apna philosophy alag. (They think Kṛṣṇa is a human being just like us. If Kṛṣṇa can speak, we can also speak. This is foolishness. They don't know Kṛṣṇa, they don't at all know. What will they tell. That's why it's already said . . . bhaktosi . . . whoever recognizes they can tell. Normal people can't tell. Unnecessary wasting time. From the whole Bhagavad-gītā they give lectures on non-violence, then the beginning word which is there—yuyutsavaḥ, what is the meaning of that. If you twist that then what is the point of saying Gītā. Tell your different philosophy then.) Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā? The beginning, the first line, is yuyutsavaḥ. Where is nonviolence? Isliye me bol raha tha ek line bhi nahi samajhta hai aur Bhagavad-gītā ka lecture dete hain. (That's why I say, they don't understand a single line but still give lectures on Bhagavad-gītā.) . . . (indistinct)

Indian man (6): How can you fight a war and then be nonviolent at the same time?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (6): How is it possible to be nonviolent . . .

Prabhupāda: Why you want nonviolence?

Indian man (6): They are talking so much about nonviolence . . .

Prabhupāda: Just like here is a makkhi (fly). Is it not violence sometimes to drive it then? There will be attack, and you have to protect yourself. This world is not like that, that there is no . . . it is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not . . . you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. Chor daku sab aata nahi jabardasti, ap chahte hain chor daku hamare ghar aye lut len . . . wo ata hai. (Don't thieves and robbers come forcefully? Do you want thieves and robbers to come to my house and steal . . . they still come.) How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.

Indian man (6): What is meant by nonviolence?

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning.

Indian man (6): It has no meaning?

Prabhupāda: Simply imagination, that's all.

Indian man: Hum logon ko to nonviolence pehle se bataya jata he ki ap log apni taraf se kisi . . . (We were taught non violence from beginning, that from your side you don't . . .)

Prabhupāda: To depend jab karenge to apko violence chahiye. (When you depend you will need violence.)

Indian man: Usko nonviolence hi mante hain . . . jyada badmashi karte hain goli chalate hain. To ye violence ap utha nahi sakta, uska proper use kar sakte hain. (This is the meaning. You cannot abolish it. That is not possible.)

Indian man (7): What is to world Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolence or . . .

Prabhupāda: I do not wish to discuss nonviolen . . . but we are talking of philosophy, that you cannot stop violence. That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, mām anusmara yudhya ca (BG 8.7).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yudhya ca.

Indian man: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Han. Yudh bhi chahiye. (Yes war is also required.)

Indian man: Mera smaran karo aur yuudh bhi karo. Is yuddh shabd ka matlab . . . (Remember me and also fight. The meaning of this word fight . . .)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Indian man: Ya yuddh ka matlab jo he apne dainik kartwayon ko jo hai karna. (Or is it that the meaning of the word yuddh is to do our daily activities.)

Prabhupāda: Yuddh ka matlab he yuddh, ladai. Ap kyun change karna chahte hain. As it is yuddh ka matlab kya hai.Yudh ka matlab yudh hai. Usme kyun ustadi kar rahe hain. (The meaning of the word yuddh is yuddh, fighting. Why do you want to change it. As it is, what is the meaning of yuddh. Yuudh means yuddh. Why do you want to show your cunningness there.)

Indian man: Jahan yudh karni hai wahan keh diya ki karm karo. (Wherever it is said to fight, they change it to do your daily karma.)

Prabhupāda: Wohi . . . aur kuch karo. Word to hai fir yudh word ye shabd kyun lagaya hai, uska matlab hai yuddh hai. Uska fir artha nikalne ka kya jarurat hai. Artha nikala ja sakta hai wahan jahan clear nahi hai. (That's what . . . do something else. The word is there, why else do they put the word yuddh there, that means fighting. What is the need of taking out meaning there. Wherever it is not clear, you should try to find the meaning there.) There is some word, the meaning is not clear, then you can suggest that, "Meaning may be like this." But when it is clear, there is no, I mean to say, chance of interpreting.

Indian man (1): As, for example, vicāra, those such words which requires some clarification or . . . these can be interpreted like . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, when it is clear, why it should be interpreted?

Indian man (1): No, for other words . . .

Prabhupāda: Other words . . . chhod dijiye (leave it) . . . that when it is clear—yudhya ca—then why should you interpret? The example is there in the Sanskrit grammar. Just like . . . the example is given, where interpretation required. It is said, example is given, like gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa-pāli, that "There is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pali on the Ganges." So then you can ask that "Gaṅgā is water. How there is a neighborhood?" Then the interpretation: "Not on the Ganges water but on the bank."

Indian man (1): Tirer opor. (On the banks.)

Prabhupāda: Then interpretation. But when it is clear that "On the bank of the Ganges there is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pali," then where is interpretation? Interpretation will be required when the meaning is not clear. Otherwise, if the meaning is clear, that is ustaadi (cunningness), to interpret. But in Bhagavad-gītā, in the first line, the word is used, yuyutsvaḥ, "desiring to fight." So desiring to fight, they assembled; they must fight. So where is the question of interpretation? (aside) So prasādam ready or not?

Trivikrama: Yeah. About 6:30, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Aaj chuti. Fir kal ayiye. (Okay. Holiday today. Please come tomorrow.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every day there'll be darśana, five to six. Every day.

Indian man (7): . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Indian man (8): There is a big hall here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a hall over here.

Indian man (8): There is a big hall here where a lot of people can come, because lot of people want to listen you.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) Indian man (7): Wo hall me thik rahega? (Will it be fine in the hall?)

Indian man (8): Han wo to jana padega. (Yes we will have to go there.)

Indian man (8): It is only fifty steps, hundred feet, yes, not more than that.

Prabhupāda: Wo ap log jaise chahiye hojayega. (That will happen however you all want.)

Indian man (7): Usme kam se kam . . . (In that at least . . .)

Indian man (8): Wo arrangement hojayega? (Arrangements will be made?)

Indian man (7): Arrangements to hojayega . . . (indistinct) . . . aram se hojayega. (Arrangements will happen . . . (indistinct) . . . it will happen easily.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's raining again.

Prabhupāda: You have shown our books to these gentlemen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a few books here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. You can show some of them.

Indian man (7): Kirtan hoga? (Will there be Kirtana?)

Prabhupāda: Han. (Yes.) Call him. You can perform kīrtana here.

Indian man (7): Hall me bahut acha hoga. (It will happen very nicely in the hall.)

Prabhupāda: So go to the hall and begin kīrtana immediately. You can go.

Indian man (7): . . . (indistinct)

Indian man (8): Tomorrow. Tomorrow evening, five till six. So you can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (1): Right now, right now. Gurujī said we can go to the . . . (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) You can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (7): But we can start here also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (7): Here for some time . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Indian man (7): To aj nahi hoga? (So today it won't happen?)

Indian man (8): Aj hoga. (It will happen today)

Prabhupāda: (kīrtana begins) (break) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Asakti sikhane ke liye bhagwan khud aa rahe hain. (To teach attachment, the Lord himself is coming.) Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Ye dharma ka glāni hai. Jab bhagwan se aasakti chuti jati hai, wo glani hai. (This is the discrepancy of religion. Whenever we lose the attachment with God, that is a discrepancy.) Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). Bhagwan khud ate hain. (The Lord himself comes.) Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Kaun sune? Baki koi sune to uska jeevan safal hojayega. Pehli baat to bhagwan bol diya nirakaar. Ye jo bhagwan ka roop hai sab kalpana hai, ye akhanda-nand bolta hai na,ye sab kalpana hai. Bhagwan bichari kya dosh kiya hai je uska aakaar nahi hai? Bhagwan bolte hain sabke pita hain. (Who listens? But if someone listens then their life is successful. First thing they said is that God is formless. This form of Lord, all this is imagination, Akhanda-nand says like this, that it is all imagination. What mistake did Lord commit that he doesn't get to have any form? The Lord says he is the father of everyone.) Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 4.8). Mai bīja-pradaḥ pitā, to . . . me hun aur hamara pita ka aakaar nahi hai. Hamara aakaar hai. To wo kya hai? Aasman se gir gaya hai? Aise ho sakta hai ki apka aakaar hai aur apke pita ka aakaar nahi hai. Aise ho sakta hai? Kiska gadhapan hai . . . jo bhagwan sabke pita hai, hamara aakaar hain, unka aakaar nahi hai. Ye koi baat hota hai kya. Garbodhan dekha nahi, Apke dada pardada ko dekha nahi to wo kya nirakaar tha? Agar kaha jaye tumhara jo pardada tha uska aakaar nahi hai, to hum manenge? To bhagwan kaise niraakaar? Suar, gadha ka aakaar hai, bhagwan ka aakar nahi hai? Uska kya jawab hai boliye. Ap ka umar tees baras hai, bhagwan niraakaar kaise ho sakte hain? Uska jawab dijiye. Bhagwan bolta he: (Mai bīja-pradaḥ pitā, so . . . I am there but my father doesn't have any form. We have a form. Then who is he? Is he someone who has fallen from the sky? Is this possible that you have a form but your father doesn't? Is that possible? Whose foolishness is this . . . that Lord who is everyone's father, we have a form, but he doesn't have a form. Is there even such a thing? You did not see Conception, you did not see your grandparents and great grandparents, so is it that they are formless. If they say that our great grandfather did not have a form, would we believe it? Then how is God formless? The pig and donkey have a form, and the Lord doesn't have a form? Tell me the answer for this. The Lord says:) man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 4.8) Sabse pehle hamara upar man lagao. Fir uska aakaar hi nahi hai kaise man lagayen? Hamare pitaji ka aakaar hai to hum unka chintan kar sakte hain. Fir aakaar hi nahi hai to kaise hum chintan karen. Isliye Bhagwan bola . . . (indistinct) . . . wo to niraakaar ka chintan nahi kar sakta hai baki jabardasti karna chahte hain to jyada se jyada . . . (indistinct) . . . yogi log niraakaar ka dhyan nahi karte, jo asal yogi . . . (indistinct) . . . Bhagwan khud bol rahe hain: (First of all, fix the mind on me. If he doesn't have a form, then how to fix the mind? Our father has a form so we can meditate on him. If there is no form then how will we meditate? That's why the Lord said . . . (indistinct) . . . he can't meditate on the formless but if we forcefully wants to do so then maximum . . . (indistinct) . . . the yogi's don't meditate on the formless, the real yogi . . . (indistinct) . . . the Lord himself says:) yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). Ye sab baat hai to niraakaar ka dhyan kaise hoga? Boliye. (All this is there, so how to meditate on the formless? Tell me.) Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 4.8). Kaun sunta hai. Sab apna apna ustaadi. Jo sastra bola hai, jo bhagwan bola hai usko mano, to kaam thik hoga. (Who listens. Everyone is cunning. Whatever scripture says, whatever the Lord says, accept it, then all work will be right.) Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ . . . (SB 7.5.23-24 ). Ye paddhati hai. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ . . . navadha bhakti. (That is the methodology. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanaṁ . . . these are the 9 limbs of bhakti.) Prashn apne acha hi kiya baki ye sab vichaar hai. Karne se bahut jaldi aasakti . . . (You have asked good question, now these are personal point of view. By doing this one can get attraction so quickly . . .) Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktis (CC Madhya 23.14-15). Pehle to śraddhā . . . aur śraddhā ka artha hota hai, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī vyakhya karte hain: (First thing is śraddhā . . . and śraddhā means, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī explains:) śraddhā-śabde — viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścayakṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya (CC Madhya 22.62). Pehle shuru hona chahiye śraddhā. To śraddhā kya cheez hai? (First it should start with śraddhā. So what is this śraddhā?) Śraddhā, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī: śraddhā'-śabde — viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. Jab viswas sudṛḍha niścaya hai to uska naam hai Śraddhā. Ye jo bhagwan bol raha hai: (When there is faith with strong determination then that is called as śraddhā. This one which the Lord says:) sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (18.66), Isko jo thik se man lega ki bhagwan jo bol rahe hain yahi thik hai, iske alawa aur kuch nahi hai. Ab us baat me hi hamara jo kuch viswas hai ki, bhagwan ki seva karne se hamara sab kaam thik hojayega, śraddhā yahi hai. Wo bhagwan bakne do, hum to apna kam chalyenge . . . niraakaar, usko 'śraddhā nahi kahenge. Bhagwan jo bol rahe hain bilkul thik bol rahe hian,usko palan karna chahiye. Fir śraddhā badhana chahiye. Jaise koi business karne ko chahte hai 'Ye business me karunga', wo 'śraddhā hai. Fir next stage hai ki wo business me jo log lage hue hain unke sath milna jhulna kis tarah se karna hai, hai na? (Whoever accepts this that whatever Lord says that is only correct, apart from this there is nothing else. Whatever faith we have in this that, by serving the Lord all our work will be successful, this is called śraddhā. Let the Lord speak and we will do on our own . . . formless, that is not called śraddhā. Whatever the Lord says, he is saying it correctly, and we should follow it. Then we should increase our faith. Like someone wants to do a business "I will do this business." That is faith. Then the next stage is, whoever are there in that business, to go and meet them, isn't that so?) Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo Aur sadhu ka Bhagavad-gītā me kya bataya he: (And what is said about sadhu in Bhagavad-gītā:) bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30) Wo Sadhu. Jo bhagwat bhajan nahi kar raha he wo to chor hai. Jo bhagwat bhajan kar raha hai unka association karna hai. Aur jo sadhu nahi hai . . . sirf dadhi rakhne se sadhu nahi hota. Bhagwan bol raha hai na: bhajate mām ananya-bhāk wo sadhu hai. Ye sab vichaar hai sastra me. Aur sastra chod ke man mani ustaad ban rahe hain, to fir kuch labh nahi he. Wo itna hi labh hoga ek flag ban jayega ye admi bahut dharmik hai. Dharma-dhwaji, dhawja hota hai . . . aur bhagwan bol rahe hain: (He is a Sadhu. The one who doesn't sing the glories of the Lord he is a thief. The one who sings the glories of God we should associate with them. And who is not a Sadhu . . . only if one keeps a beard he is not a Sadhu. The Lord says: bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, he is a sadhu. All this ideas are there in scripture. And we are ignoring the scriptures and do things on our own being cunning, then there is no benefit. The only benefit we will get is, we will get flagged as a religious person. Dharma-dhwaji, like the flag . . . and the Lord says:) yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). Sastra me nirdesh jo hai usko chod kar ke man mani kam karta hai usko kabhi siddhi nahi milegi. 'Na siddhim na sukhaṁ', usko sukh bhi kabhi nahi milega. 'Na parāṁ gatim' parāṁ gatim ka to baat hi chod do. To bhagwan khud aa kar ke bata rahe hain, sikha rahe hain kis tarah se karo, bhagwan ka bhakta raho sab. Wo acharan kar rahe hain, usko sadhu sang usko sikhna, bhajan kriya, bhajan ka jo niyam hai . . . fir anarth nivritti. Fir jis karan se ye sab anarth hua hai usko nivritt karna. Fir nistha, ruchi, fir aasakti. Ye stage hai. To ye sab stage me jane se . . . (The one who ignores the scriptures and do things on their own will never achieve success. Na siddhim na sukhaṁ, he will never get happiness. Na parāṁ gatim, leave about the highest destination. The Lord himself comes and says, he teaches us how to do, everybody becomes a devotee of the Lord. He teaches by behavior, to teach association of saintly persons, singing glories of the Lord, the rules for singing the Lord's glories . . . and then removal of unwanted bad habits. And then remove all the causes because of which the bad habits were formed. Then determination, then interest, then attachment. These are the stages. So if we go through all these stages . . .) (end)