770227 - Conversation A - Mayapur

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770227R1-MAYAPUR - February 27, 1977 - 31:55 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . aniya mahat-pado smariya gurave namaḥ. In a short time he has learned very nicely.

sahasra-pa-parābdamnam

ācāryaṁ te māyāṁ sadā

kintu tvamsudaya śilā

tasmād tubhyāṁ namo namaḥ

namaste prabhupādāya

śreṣṭha vedyaṁ dadāsi te

tasya padāśraya-kośaṁ

namaste gurave namaḥ

oṁ śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ gītā

caitanya-caritāmṛta ca

sundara-bhāgavatam cami

bhaktiko manyave bhavān

I am surprised that he has learned so quickly. Very nice.

Rādhā-vallabha: Very intelligent boy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He should be given letter.

Rādhā-vallabha: Anyway, he made one arrangement with another devotee to marry this devotee's daughter.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: He is nineteen years old, and he made arrangement with . . .

Prabhupāda: This boy?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. The boy that wrote that. And he made arrangement with another devotee to marry her daughter at a later date. She's only twelve. So I've told him not to do anything until I spoke to you, because I don't think this has ever been done in our movement yet.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think anyone has ever done this before in our movement, the Vedic system. So I had a few questions about it. First of all I told them that they shouldn't associate until the actual time that they get married. That's true, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, no, marriage, they do not speak. That is the disease in your country, that . . . there is no objection nineteen-years-old boy and twelve-years girl, it is very good combination, but the culture is so bad that after few days they will separate.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. That's the actual problem.

Prabhupāda: If they stick to have one husband and one wife, it is very good. Or even the man can marry more than one wife. That is allowed in the Vedic system. The difficulty is nobody remains as wife, nobody remains husband. It is very dangerous. That is against Vedic . . . otherwise man can have more than one wife, but woman cannot marry more than one husband. But the system—the boys and girls intermingle so freely, and in your country there is no restriction—naturally it becomes adulterated. That is the danger.

Rādhā-vallabha: So he wanted to know that . . .

Prabhupāda: Knowing or no knowing, they'll not do it even. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll break. They'll promise and they'll break. How you can make them standardized? They will break.

Rādhā-vallabha: They have to be responsible people.

Prabhupāda: They'll never become. That is my experience. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll never become. Almost impossible. They'll not keep standardized.

Rādhā-vallabha: So then it should just be up to them.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of consulting? They'll promise and they'll break.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes, you were telling me in Hawaii about that, that that is the difficulty. They have no responsibility. All right, I'll tell him that.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: I will tell him that.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise there is no objection. I married; my wife was eleven years old.

Rādhā-vallabha: You were responsible, though.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rādhā-vallabha: But you were responsible.

Prabhupāda: Everyone in India responsible. That is Indian culture still.

Rādhā-vallabha: Should . . . when they agree at this young age, they should wait till they get older, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally a girl attains puberty at fourteen years, thirteen years. In India, because it is tropical climate . . . I think in Western countries they attain puberty not before fifteen, sixteen years. So although a girl is married before puberty, she is not allowed to go to the husband until she has attained puberty. Formerly, in our days also, after attaining puberty there is another, second marriage. Then the husband and wife live together.

Rādhā-vallabha: Is there a minimum age for the man?

Prabhupāda: No. That is . . . minimum age means generally the husband must be older than the wife, at least five years' difference.

Rādhā-vallabha: What is the most amount of years they can be different? What is the maximum amount of years there can be difference?

Prabhupāda: Man has no maximum. Even an eighty-years-old man can marry a sixteen-years-old girl. (laughter)

Rādhā-vallabha: Because this one devotee has a daughter twelve, and he wanted to marry her to a man twenty-six, but he thought that was too much difference.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is too much difference. But eight years, ten years usual.

Rādhā-vallabha: Eight or ten years is best. So he also wanted to know if . . .

Prabhupāda: That is healthy.

Rādhā-vallabha: He wanted to know also . . .

Prabhupāda: And in no case . . . the girl must not be older than the boy. That's not good at all.

Rādhā-vallabha: At the time of the agreement, when they are not yet old enough, they do not associate at all. So not until the actual marriage do they associate or wear white or anything like that.

Prabhupāda: No, even they can be married, but no association.

Rādhā-vallabha: No association. So the boy can be . . . if the girl has attained puberty say at thirteen, fourteen, even if the boy is only twenty, twenty-one it is all right. All right. I wanted to make sure. I wasn't allowing them to see each other. I wanted to make sure they weren't doing anything un–bona fide. So I'll tell him that. I have the . . . Jagannātha dāsa has done synonyms for Brahma-saṁhitā.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: For the Brahma-saṁhitā printing, Jagannātha dāsa has done some synonyms. Would you like to use the book also? I have the book here.

Prabhupāda: No . . . yes. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: So they're okay?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh, good. When we print this book, should we distribute it freely? Should we distribute this book to the masses?

Prabhupāda: No harm. So what is the arrangement?

Rādhā-vallabha: I was thinking that it would be nice to do it the way we do Bhāgavatam, with the devanāgarī, transliteration, synonyms, translation and purport, say size of Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: Why not this boy help? He knows Sanskrit good.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. He works on every book. He proofreads the Sanskrit and Bengali.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have the . . . Mr . . . I forget his name. From Central Bank. The gentleman who saw you. So I filled out these cards, and he's willing to open this account now. This account . . . until they open a proper branch here, this account is actually being held at Camac Street. It's called account number one, but it will be held in Camac Street, and when they open the branch then it will be shipped here as account number one.

Prabhupāda: But we want payment here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, they want to know from us whether we want them to remain here after the festival.

Prabhupāda: We have no objection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have no objection. Okay. So as far as the . . . we want them, I think. If they don't remain here, then what is the use of opening account?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Camac Street, I have got already account.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now so far as the almirah goes, I discussed with them. So their understanding was that once they open their actual branch, they're going to be purchasing all their furniture in Calcutta and bringing it here. So they're just temporarily using it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we don't want to charge them, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Let me first ask them, before you sign this, whether they'll keep it open. Because if they're going to close it now, there's no use in signing it.

Prabhupāda: No. Because in Calcutta I have got already.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Do you want to see this gentleman again today?

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll see. He may not . . . I think he has other business. I'll find out.

Prabhupāda: So that Jagannātha, he has come? No.

Rādhā-vallabha: No. He has stayed back in L.A. He just got married, so he has business.

Prabhupāda: Let them . . . let them do together.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. That's the system actually. There are some other . . . there actually is a big department. There are about eight or nine boys. They're all getting very good. Now Jagannātha had some questions on corrections in the book. In verse twenty-eight it says: "Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn."

Prabhupāda: Where it is? Brahma-saṁhitā?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rādhā-vallabha: So it says: "Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn."

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Rādhā-vallabha: It's verse twenty-eight, "Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa." So Jagannātha said it should be, "Then he worshiped . . ."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Jagannātha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.

Rādhā-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.

Rādhā-vallabha: He wasn't changing any of the words. He was just . . .

Prabhupāda: Nothing of the . . . this should be strictly forbidden.

Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.

Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.

Rādhā-vallabha: Synonyms. So even . . .

Prabhupāda: That is his tendency, to correct. That's very bad. He should not do that.

Rādhā-vallabha: So I'll just forget this, then.

Prabhupāda: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Ārṣa-prayoga That is ha . . . he should not become more learned than the authority. That is very bad habit.

Rādhā-vallabha: He was always wondering how he should think. So I'll tell him that. He thinks, "If I think I see a mistake, what should I think?" I'll tell him what you just said.

Prabhupāda: He cannot see mistake. He is mistake. (laughter) He should . . . that is being done by this rascal. I don't want. And the Hayagrīva has . . . the Easy Journey, he has changed so many things. That . . . he is now bad character. You should not maintain him.

Rādhā-vallabha: We should stop maintaining him.

Prabhupāda: No. He has no responsibility even on his family.

Rādhā-vallabha: His wife just came to meet him in L.A.

Prabhupāda: What she said?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, she was asking me whether he would want to live with her. I told her that I didn't think so.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why did you advise?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't . . . he's not very responsible.

Prabhupāda: Responsible or not responsible, they should live together.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes, I know. So I've . . .

Prabhupāda: But actually he's bad. He has gone out.

Rādhā-vallabha: So after he finishes the philosophy book, no more.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: He is still working on the philosophy book. So when he finishes that, that will be the last.

Prabhupāda: Why finish it? Whatever is done is done. No more. I understand that he is intoxicated.

Rādhā-vallabha: All right.

Prabhupāda: We cannot pay for his intoxication.

Rādhā-vallabha: I was thinking of stopping anyway. Now that you have said it, it makes it very simple. I can find a way that it will be done nicely. Practically there's nothing for him to do very important, anyway.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. What is that?

Woman devotee (1): Medicine, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Rādhā-vallabha: So, also in the songbook . . . we will have to reprint that soon. The way it is now, I remember you also once told me that Acyutānanda makes mistakes in the Bengali. And the Sanskrit department, Jagannātha and the others, say that there are a lot of mistakes that they would like to correct. Is that all right? Do you want synonyms? Do you want synonyms in the songbook? No? Okay. Now we are also doing a very nice cookbook. Yamunā is doing it. I passed on the instruction that you left in Madhya-līlā that the recipes at Advaitācārya's house should be included. She's gotten practically all of those. She's going to put the cookbook together in such a way that it will be an example for Deity worship for all the temples, and we hope to have that finished this year sometime. That's all right?

Prabhupāda: Last time Acyutānanda was given some money. Still the same arrangement is there?

Rādhā-vallabha: I'm not giving him any money.

Prabhupāda: No.

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't like this philosophy, that if someone does some service they should get money for it. That's business.

Prabhupāda: I think he was paid some money.

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know about that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This system is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they have permission from the Reserve Bank to keep this extension open up to one month. I asked him, "How long will it take until you get the actual branch?" They said: "Somewhere between one and two months." So if we open an account, it's guaranteed that you will be able to draw money here up to one month's time. By then, either they'll open the branch, and if they don't, then whatever funds you have here will be transferred to your Calcutta account. And as soon as the branch is open, they will immediately transfer back here as account number one.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this requires your signature, and an initial deposit has to be made to open it.

Prabhupāda: So I shall do it. I'm talking with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So later on you'll do it, and I'll bring it to them. Okay.

Rādhā-vallabha: This system of the money, I stopped that in Los Angeles. It was becoming prevalent that whenever they wanted to do some extra service, they would want money. So I told them if they want money they can't do it in service to you. It has to be something else. Otherwise the whole thing is spoiled.

Prabhupāda: No money.

Rādhā-vallabha: All right. I'll enforce that strictly. The only money is for rent and some small maintenance, eating. That's all.

Prabhupāda: And if we have got our own place, no rent even.

Rādhā-vallabha: In some cases we do. The rents mostly are to Māyāpur fund.

Prabhupāda: And to . . . if there is no our place, then we'll pay rent.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise you must accommodate him in our place.

Rādhā-vallabha: Most of the rent I pay is to the ISKCON property account, and that comes to you, so it's . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: Most of the rents I pay are to the ISKCON property account, and that all comes back to Māyāpur, etcetera, so there's no problem there. Also another thing is children's books. I was looking at the gurukula books. You don't want to get into that. Oh.

Prabhupāda: They are not wanted. We have got one color book?

Rādhā-vallabha: Coloring book and Prahlāda book.

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. No more.

Rādhā-vallabha: So gurukula should do their own books.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Why . . . that one book is sufficient. Why more books about this?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, gurukula already has ten books, but they're printed very, very poorly.

Prabhupāda: Why ten books? Not a single student knows well English, neither Sanskrit, and ten books.

Rādhā-vallabha: These are the Americans, American boys, American gurukulas.

Prabhupāda: Why, I do not know. You just discuss this. They do not learn anything, and we are printing books.

Rādhā-vallabha: Those books they print themselves, the gurukula.

Prabhupāda: "Themself" means?

Rādhā-vallabha: They have a little . . . in Dallas they had a little photostat machine, and Nandarāṇī would write and they would print it.

Prabhupāda: So it is waste of time—waste of money and waste of time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they don't learn, what is the use of the book?

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles they are learning how to read.

Prabhupāda: This policy is not good. Why?

Rādhā-vallabha: So before I get involved in it at all, I'll make sure Jagadīśa speaks to you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We should not invest our BBT money in that way.

Rādhā-vallabha: I wasn't going to. That's what I wanted to mention.

Prabhupāda: Strictly. It is not required, unnecessarily investing money. It should be noted.

Rādhā-vallabha: That's what I wanted to ask you about.

Prabhupāda: Before investing money in anything, you should ask me.

Rādhā-vallabha: That was my question, that if a donation is given specifically for that . . .

Prabhupāda: The donation may be given. That . . .

Rādhā-vallabha: So then it's all right.

Prabhupāda: It should be invested very conscientiously.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. The money will all come back, too.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is, though, that when we get these donations, it's because we suggest that they be invested in a particular way. The people often state that. It's not that they're so dedicated to the particular way we invest the money. I've seen that very often. It's due to our suggestion.

Rādhā-vallabha: In some cases, but in other cases it's not possible to get money unless you . . . like with the Laguna Beach people. Unless they know exactly what it's going for, they won't give something. And this is the type of thing that can inspire them to give a little money, especially the ones that don't give anything. Anyway, even if a donation comes, I won't do anything with it until I speak to you.

Prabhupāda: No, donation may come for causes good, many, but investment must be conscientious.

Rādhā-vallabha: So I'll save it until I speak to you.

Prabhupāda: Not that because you are getting donation very easily and you spend it, squander it, like that, anything. No. That should not be.

Rādhā-vallabha: In the book on the . . . I'll wait till you finish your medicine.

Prabhupāda: So Jagannātha-sūta should be strictly advised not to become very learned to correct authorities. No.

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha? He is Jagannātha-sūta or where he is?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha-sūta is Back to Godhead. Jagannātha dāsa is Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's it. He should not be very learned.

Rādhā-vallabha: I think that instruction you gave will help him very much about even if he thinks there is some mistake, just forget about it.

Prabhupāda: He is mistake. He should not think his authority mistake.

Rādhā-vallabha: He didn't know what he should do. He didn't know where to draw the line.

Prabhupāda: So why he should be given this business? He's such irresponsible man. He should not be given any responsible work. Our first business should see how he is advanced in devotion. We don't want so-called scholars.

Rādhā-vallabha: They just leave us.

Prabhupāda: Leave, I don't mind. Just like he became a big scholar.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi, he's a rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big rascal.

Prabhupāda: I think that Jagannātha is within his group? Nitāi?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha was somewhat affected by Nitāi, but he's . . .

Prabhupāda: I know that.

Rādhā-vallabha: I think he understands what the problem was. I think he understands what his problem was, and that's why he won't do anything without asking you.

Prabhupāda: Don't allow him to do anything.

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, now that this system of no corrections anywhere, that makes it very simple. Then he can't do anything. I don't think he wants to, either. It makes it more simple for him. It makes him very uncomfortable.

Prabhupāda: No corrections. He can write that synonym, that's all, according to the translation. Who is writing the synonym?

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. According to the translation. Not that he becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Mahārāja.

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think that's possible.

Prabhupāda: Alpa-vidyā bhayaṅkare. This is the Western countries' deficiency. They learn little, and they consider that he has become very learned scholar. This is the defect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a Professor Frog puffing up and then bursting.

Rādhā-vallabha: Nitāi burst.

Prabhupāda: Where he is now?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. I heard that he was heading for America, then wanted to go back to India, some nonsense. I could find out if you want me to. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wrote Prabhupāda, "Your blessings . . ."

Rādhā-vallabha: I saw the letter.

Prabhupāda: ". . . to find out better guru."

Rādhā-vallabha: That's like trying to get blessings to find a light brighter than the sun.

Prabhupāda: Where is his wife?

Rādhā-vallabha: She left the movement some time ago.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rādhā-vallabha: I heard there was some correspondence between them after he left you. Birds of a feather.

Prabhupāda: So they are husband and wife still or not?

Rādhā-vallabha: I just heard from some women, so I can't trust it.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. But she was pregnant?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. She was living with her parents in Colorado, I think. He is from there also.

Prabhupāda: He was polluted by the . . . that Puruṣottama.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That Mr. Dalmia's guru.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not that Puruṣottama. Another, my . . . he says my Godbrother.

Rādhā-vallabha: The one that was making corrections in your books. Rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Yes.

Prabhupāda: He has very intimately mixed. I think that he arranged for delivering books, this Nitāi.

Rādhā-vallabha: He used to send me corrections all the time, this Puruṣottama. I would throw them in the garbage.

Prabhupāda: Still he sends corrections?

Rādhā-vallabha: No, no. This was years ago. Nonsense corrections, too. His own opinion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll just tell those men. They are waiting.

Prabhupāda: So, you can take this. He can . . . on the basis of the translation, he can make the synonyms. And this boy is good. He should be engaged. He should guide. He knows Sanskrit letter. And I very much appreciate his writing. Tell him. He has done very nice.

Rādhā-vallabha: I will. I'll let him listen to the tape.

Prabhupāda: He should be encouraged.

Rādhā-vallabha: All right.

Prabhupāda: He is good boy.

Rādhā-vallabha: I have other things. I think I'll save them.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: I have other things to ask you on other books. Would you rather I ask you a different time?

Prabhupāda: Not now.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (offer obeisances)

Rādhā-vallabha: Tonight there will be a play. I heard it was after ārati, first part of Rāmāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. I'll see.

Rādhā-vallabha: You're coming to see it? I'll tell them. Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rādhā-vallabha: Jaya. (end)