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770216 - Conversation A - Mayapur

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770216R1-MAYAPUR - February 16, 1977 - 36:11 Minutes

Satsvarūpa: If you associate with a certain type of people, your reputation will be that you are like them, and you'll become like them

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) So our Śrīdhara Mahārāja's associates are not very good. Then what is his position?

Satsvarūpa: It cannot be said that he is opposed to them.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Satsvarūpa: You can't say he is opposed to them if he always associates with them. They're envious . . .

Prabhupāda: (sarcastically) Very good associates. That is his associate. He may not be very . . . no, everyone is not openly envious, everyone, but we can understand by behavior. Nobody is openly envious.

Satsvarūpa: Just by keeping apart, he . . . that . . . he shows there's some enviousness. (long pause)

Prabhupāda: Where is my cap?

Satsvarūpa: (aside) Maybe he had it.

Prabhupāda: So socks will be required? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they have no . . . their philosophy has no real basis.

Prabhupāda: That cannot appeal to the higher educated person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing to it. Not giving knowledge of God.

Prabhupāda: And their behavior . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is abominable.

Prabhupāda: The injunction is "Thou shall not kill." They are simply killing. How it will be effective?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The priests are doing all rascal's nonsense. Homosex.

Prabhupāda: They announced that . . . there is a hospital for drunkard priest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Alcoholic priests.

Prabhupāda: And they have introduced gambling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And homosex.

Prabhupāda: Homosex, what is that religion? And they're passing to homosex, religion. They're getting married man to man. Most degraded.

Hari-śauri: There's no difference between the behavior of a priest and the behavior of a gross atheist . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . . except he's dressed as priest.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Dress only.

Hari-śauri: But they have exactly the same mentality.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business.

Hari-śauri: It's simply a way of making a livelihood.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Here also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention in the Bhāgavatam about this, that the religious men will wear only the clothes to make a profit? That people will wear religious clothing simply for making profit? Now religion is a good business. They take it like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They exploit the sentiment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A man, when he thinks of his occupation, he thinks, "I can still get married and be the leader of the church. I'll get married, have a family, and I'll . . . this will be my profession, to be a priest."

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's what it is. It's a profession only.

Prabhupāda: Profession.

Hari-śauri: One of my friends was considering, "Shall I . . ." He had come to a point where he was thinking, "Now I'll either become a police officer or I'll become a priest." But he couldn't quite make his mind up. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: In our college days we read one book, that was our textbook. It is a story, that a boy was meant for Church and he fell in love with a girl. That is the psychology. Cloister and the Hearth. What is the cloister?

Hari-śauri: Inner sanctuary.

Prabhupāda: And hearth? Home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Home.

Prabhupāda: That book was named Cloister and Hearth. So get Bombay finished very quickly and book-printing, stock, propaganda. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . society is growing on that principle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This I want to increase more and more. No money in the bank. In the books. And as long there will be stock of book which has to be sold. Otherwise I will starve. (chuckling) That I want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will force the book sales to increase. The manager . . .

Prabhupāda: You may take it as business or whatever you like. I am not taking anything. You are selling five to six lakhs daily?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So my royalty would have been one lakh, fifty thousand daily. Big authors, they take twenty-five percent. So that is not the ambition, but my ambition is these books shall be sold. That's all. Whole . . . every house should have our books—every gentleman, any language, it doesn't matter. That is our propaganda. Now you are getting all languages, so we can capture the whole world.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Increase the book sales more and more.

Prabhupāda: And we are getting success at that. There is no question of discouragement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially here in India it's becoming more and more encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Now these books I have read, either Bengali or Hindi, they are well written, very convincing. All our books are convincing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a very handsome type of binding. It's called . . . I'm not sure who has done . . . I think the libraries do. It's called "Perma-Bound" It's your pocketbook edition but bound into a hard cover. Very handy book.

Prabhupāda: Recent publication?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't . . . I'm not . . . I don't think that actually the BBT did this binding. This is done by someone else, but somehow I managed . . . it was in my office, so I brought it with me. But it's very nice to get the small pocket-size book but with a hard cover. For traveling it's very handy. On the back it gives mention inside of . . . what the binding is.

Prabhupāda: Where it is done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In USA. "Perma-Bound" it's called.

Hari-śauri: That's like that plastic cover-type stuff.

Prabhupāda: It is half-bound.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that is the thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Hari-śauri: What they've done is they've taken off the paper cover, this pink, and they just hardbound it . . .

Prabhupāda: Softbound.

Hari-śauri: . . . and slip it back on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And plastic.

Hari-śauri: And plastic over the top.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very, very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wonderful book, Nectar of Devotion.

Prabhupāda: Every book is. Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Nectar of Devotion. Whichever one he will read, he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your early book . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: And then Kṛṣṇa, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Simply development.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This book is now very nice because there are many fine illustrations inside, more than they used to be. They've added. The Teachings of Lord Caitanya, I was thinking in particular. I have a copy of that, and there are many color illustrations inside now. Wonderful book, the summary of all of the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's introduction gives a whole . . . it's like all of the pastimes of Lord Caitanya condensed into a few pages.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is there in the Teaching . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Teaching of Lord Caitanya. This is . . . you remember that . . .

Prabhupāda: Near Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay, at Rāma temple you stayed at. This was taken by Brijbasi. They took this picture. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . rasāmṛta-sindhu like my other books, word to word. Then Bon Mahārāja began. So Bon Mahārāja could not do it. Only he published only a part of it, with gorgeous sound, that, only that one eleven hundred or one thousand copies printed forever.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To show. Name only.

Prabhupāda: Name only.

Hari-śauri: And they're all still in his cell.

Prabhupāda: Then I thought that, "Not in that way. Let me have the summary study. Then it will be . . ."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's really nice that some of your books are like this, in summary study. It's a nice variety. Some are very scholarly presented and some are very . . . for the simple person.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is summary study of the Tenth Canto. That is also very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa book stories are wonderful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Most popular book.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they love that. Of course, Bhagavad-gītā is the most well known, but people enjoy that Kṛṣṇa book. From the Kṛṣṇa book they get the clear idea who Kṛṣṇa is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was my . . . "Let them know at least what is Kṛṣṇa." That is selling nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very nicely. I would say that the lay public—that is to say the people who attend our temples but are not becoming the full-time devotees—they especially read Kṛṣṇa book and Gītā.

Prabhupāda: And that theologian, he says, "I want to support Kṛṣṇa." He said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. "It must be Kṛṣṇa's name; otherwise I'm not . . . (indistinct) . . ."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Then he has become devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a big man, Harvey Cox, the top theologian in the country.

Prabhupāda: Our George Harrison, he also liked Kṛṣṇa book.

Hari-śauri: Yes. We sold so many Kṛṣṇa books on the strength of showing them that . . .

Prabhupāda: George Harrison.

Hari-śauri: . . . introduction from George Harrison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And I have acknowledged his contribution and blessed him as good boy. And because he served Kṛṣṇa, then later on he became inclined to give us that house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Has that house been transferred actually yet?

Prabhupāda: Never mind what is the . . . we are using it. If he says: "Go out," we shall go out. What is that? We are not after property.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He won't, and he'll never say that.

Prabhupāda: No. I don't think he's so mean-minded. No. He's not mean-minded. He's a good boy. I've studied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ravi Shankar has taken advantage of him. (pause) These two pūjārīs, the two brothers . . .

Prabhupāda: They're ideal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . they look like they're out of the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. They appear as two persons right out of that book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Very good boys.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vaikuṇṭha men.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They do not know except the Deity. Very good boys.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perfect team of brothers.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has brought them here in Māyāpur. Previously they were advanced. All of you. You are simply born because the mission was to be started. Just like in Yadu-vaṁśa Kṛṣṇa ordered all the devotee demigods to "Go and take birth there to help Me." Similarly, you are also . . . you were born in Europe, America, to help this. Otherwise you were devotees in your past lives. I have explained that in my recent writings. The first of all, mām eti: goes to Kṛṣṇa where His pastime is going on, and then they are transferred to the original. So all the devotees picked up, and they were placed together where Kṛṣṇa is having His pastimes in either of these innumerable universes. He's going on. Just the moving . . . the sun is moving—little, little, little. So Kṛṣṇa's pastimes go on—this universe, that universe, that universe, that universe. In some universe He's present. In all universes present. That is called nitya-līlā. So those who are advanced, perfect devotee, first of all they are sent there and then, further trained up, they enter. Mām eti. Just like after passing the administration examination he's made one assistant of some magistrate, and then gradually he'll be promoted up to the high-court judge.

Hari-śauri: When we were in New York this last summer you said that the spiritual master also has associates who appear along with him to help him in his mission.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa wants His assistants, the spiritual master also requires assistant. Everything is going on under Kṛṣṇa's direct supervision. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
(BG 18.61)

So Bombay work is going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Full-scale work.

Prabhupāda: People come to see even what is going on now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Many big people come to see. When I was there a very big Life Member came with his wife. Girirāja is constantly giving tours of the construction, showing, "This will be like this, this will be like this." People are very impressed. There is no such place in all of Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In all of India there's no such place.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they recognize it. Especially the fact that it is so . . .

Prabhupāda: This is Saurabha's credit. He has designed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The utilization is especially unique. It is so much more than just a temple. That is what's impressing—the restaurant, the theater, temple . . .

Prabhupāda: Every inch is utilized.

Hari-śauri: It's what they call a complex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very unique. One thing we don't have is a university.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible within that small . . . (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not in that area. But I'm just thinking in terms of programs, that one time you wanted in Gorakhpur to do something.

Prabhupāda: That you can do in Hyderabad. Six hundred acres.

Hari-śauri: At least we have our Gurukula in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was that your plan for Kurukṣetra, to have a university there?

Prabhupāda: If we can develop all this, we don't require separate. But if the government donates the land or give us acquiring, then we can do something. That Life Member, big Life Member, came to see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very big man. I don't remember his name. New member. Girirāja was giving a tour. It should be very finely built. It should not be too hastily made.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like I notice that this building is actually first class. The construction is very first class. It's very solid.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Very solid.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not sacrifice the quality.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have appointed there first-class engi . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like I notice many modern, many newer buildings in India, because they are rushing the work it is not of the same quality. Just like Birla's. All of their homes are very fine. And also the Bangurs of Calcutta. Their homes . . . they take a lot of time that all the marble is made properly—everything. The walls are done nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So let it be done like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our members, they have discrimination. They can tell when something is done first class or not.

Prabhupāda: You have been in Vṛndāvana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not yet. Last time was two years ago.

Prabhupāda: That building is also coming very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Gurukula. Very gorgeous and nice. And if there are gates and road in our name, (laughing) that will be unique in India. Then people will come to Vṛndāvana to see our . . . nowadays also, they are coming to see our temple. Anyone who comes. That prasāda distribution is going on in the evening?

Devotee: Daily.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be done. Anyone who comes to see the ārati, at least two purīs, little vegetable, halavā should be given. Prasāda distribution should go on everywhere. Who said that that is my trick? Who was . . .?

Hari-śauri: He was just saying last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh, somebody . . .

Hari-śauri: Secret weapon.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Secret weapon, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Jayapatākā has not returned?

Devotee: No. Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not as yet.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice center, Pānihāṭi. Then we shall control the whole Ganges, from Calcutta to Māyāpur. We'll have so many steamers. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: Steamers and ferries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least four streamer always plying from Calcutta to Māyāpur. Therefore I am after that center. It will be middle station. And you can go in this way, Rijay, by electricity. Go this side, that side, this side, that side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone will take those steamers.

Prabhupāda: It will be very nice recreation also, to go by the steamer here, there.

Hari-śauri: Have kīrtana on board . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: . . . lectures . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . . and prasāda distribution, Deities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the government knows what you are doing.

Prabhupāda: They know. They appreciate. The Home Member has appreciated. He personally told Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, "Yes, we want that this movement should spread all over." Not in writing, but verbally he has stated, although he's Christian. Every sane man will appreciate. Indira Gandhi also. You said that she has advised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Unless she appreciates, why she has done? And the ambassador.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He has given his certification. At first he was unwilling, but he became . . . when she . . . when he got permission from India, then . . .

Prabhupāda: Indian government should be proud that Indian culture is being accepted in America.

Hari-śauri: They can see that we're a lot more effective than any Christian ministry. We're a lot more effective in the work we're doing for spreading their culture, or Indian culture, than the Christians were in India.

Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi. Gandhi was so big man. His nonviolence creed, who has accepted it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one.

Prabhupāda: Although nonviolence is a very good word, but who can accept it? We don't say such rascal things, imagination. We introduce Kṛṣṇa, encouraging, "Fight!" Nonsense nonviolence. (chuckles) "Kṣatriya, you should fight. Don't talk nonsense." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam (BG 2.2). "What kind of talking you are doing? You're My friend." And he wanted to introduce nonviolence. Where is nonviolence in Gītā? Artificial. All artificial.

Hari-śauri: When Arjuna wanted to stop fighting, Kṛṣṇa chastised him.

Prabhupāda: And he wants to prove nonviolence from Gītā. Just see how foolish he was. If you say publicly that he was a rascal, fool, then you become unpopular. But actually he was a rascal fool. (laughs) Artificial. Kṛṣṇa says: "You fight," and these rascals say: "Nonviolent." He's more than cheating. Māyāvādī.

Hari-śauri: Cheater.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheater, one must be, due to ignorance. Generally one who is fool, he commits criminality. No sane man does it. Sane means he knows what is what. He does not commit mistake. But to commit mistake means he's insane, ignorant. That is not innocence—ignorance, foolish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a difference between ignorance and innocence.

Prabhupāda: Innocence, he . . . like a child.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a child, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But ignorant means he has no knowledge, he is animal. (pause) So what about the advertising? He has not done?

Hari-śauri: The book advertisement? Did you see that? Prabhupāda wrote out an advertisement, "Read Hare Kṛṣṇa books, worldwide Hare Kṛṣṇa books, and be happy." And then he listed all the books and where to buy them from.

Prabhupāda: And I gave him 22,000 rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He was supposed to put it in all the newspapers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't mention anything to me. I was there only for one day, but he did not mention it. I can write him if you want. He'll be coming here . . .

Hari-śauri: The 25th or 26th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Ten days. I'm sure he must have done it if you have told him to.

Prabhupāda: We cannot understand what is the position of this land acquisition. They will remain silent?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's some political thing behind it. That's sure.

Prabhupāda: The political was Ramakrishna Mission and Tīrtha Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Ramakrishna Mission? Envious. Even though they're not near here, still they can understand how prominent we would become.

Prabhupāda: We have already become more than, more important than.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tīrtha Mahārāja's brother is active now?

Prabhupāda: What . . .? Rejected. I think of them dead. They may think themselves that they are very full of life, but I think they are dead. What is the use of fighting with the dead body? Dead horse, and what is the use of you whipping? A dead horse will rise up by whipping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, "Beating a dead horse." There's a saying.

Prabhupāda: I think all of them are dead.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, they're not doing anything. They've retired. They built their own little place, and there they've retired.

Prabhupāda: There is no activity throughout the whole world, er, whole year. Only they come during the festival.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They use this festival as a means of collecting money . . .

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . for the rest of the year.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That they actually do. With this festival, they collect. Whatever they collect, they spend twenty-five percent for the festival, and seventy-five percent they keep it for eating whole year. This is their business. That's a fact; they admit it. And they have no other source.

Hari-śauri: They're not very well supported now either.

Prabhupāda: Who knows them? Why they will be supported? My Guru Mahārāja used to, Khaoa daoa, adda kora. (Eating, sleeping and chatting.) A pandemonium of eating and sleeping. Joint mess. Joint mess, just without any Deity, nobody will pay. Therefore . . . not for preaching. So make this program immediately. Bring huge quantity of books and distribute. And see that books are not wasted, not stolen, neglected. This is our life and soul property. Jaya. (end)