770214 - Conversation C - Mayapur

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



770214RO-MAYAPUR - February 14, 1977 - 60:07 Minutes


(Conversation on Roof)



Prabhupāda: ...son begotten by Lord Śiva in the womb of Pārvatī, he'll be able to conquer over the demons. Kārttikeya. You have heard the name of Kārttikeya? So the wife of Lord Śiva, Dākṣāyaṇī, committed suicide in the Dakṣa yajña. She heard blaspheming her husband, so immediately she gave up her body: "My father, you have given this body; therefore you are claiming so much from me. I give up this body." So he gave up his body, and the next birth she was born as the daughter of Himalayan king, Pārvatī. And after her death as the daughter of Dakṣa Mahārāja, Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation, very deep meditation. Now the problem was how to wake up Lord Śiva from meditation and engage him again with Pārvatī. Nobody dared. So the Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. He was in meditation, and he could not be awakened. Kālīdāsa Kavi is giving remark that "Here is dhīra. Here is dhīra. A young girl touching the genital of Lord Śiva, and he is not agitated." Adhīra. Dhīra means there is cause of agitation, but one is not agitated. That is called dhīra. And adhīra, everyone. There is cause of agitation in so many ways. Our, this movement, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, if we remain engaged in kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, then dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Both the dhīra and adhīra will enjoy this kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. This our movement is for the dhīra. And adhīra also, if he joins this movement, even adhīra also becomes dhīra. This is the test. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau.

So we should not be adhīra. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Adhīra means to remain in the material world. So long we are adhīra, there is no chance of going back home, back to Godhead. This is the tapasya—to remain dhīra. There are many causes of becoming adhīra, but the causes may not disturb us—then dhīra. Dhīradhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, just like dhīra. There was cause, enough cause. He was young man, and a young prostitute, very beautiful, came at midnight and offered her body to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He said, "Yes, very good proposal. You sit down. Let me finish my chanting. I shall enjoy." This is dhīra. For three nights she tried and failed, and she became surrendered: "Sir, this was my motive. I was sent by such-and-such person." Haridāsa Ṭhākura, "Yes, I knew all these things. I would have gone long ago, but you are innocent; your business is this. You came. So I wanted to try to do some good to you. So better you have come to your senses. Now you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I am leaving." So, dhīra.

This material world means so long we'll have a pinch of material desire, we'll have to take birth. Kṛṣṇa will give us full facility to satisfy our senses in various ways. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Full facilities. "Enjoy. But if you want My advice, then sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. And that, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give all facilities for material enjoyment in different grades of life. Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. Punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business. So those who are engaged in the same business, so that is, Ṛṣabhadeva said, "It is not good. What is the use of same business again and again? You are not disgusted?" To repeat the birth is very good business? To enter into the womb of some mother and remain there for some time in so packed-up condition and suffering, to forget? But acts in such a way that he'll have to take birth again. Na sādhu manye. Ṛṣabhadeva: "This is not good business." "Then what is wrong?" Just like some student in Hawaii University, "What is wrong if I become a dog?" This is education, university. They do not understand what is the wrong in this business of repetition of birth and death.

So what is education? They cannot understand even that what is the suffering in birth and death. And repetition again and again and again, the same business, for āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, eating, sleeping, sex and protection. He cannot understand. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carva... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Through external energy they are trying to be happy. What is that happiness? Durāśaya. That's not happiness. That is misconception of happiness. So long you have to die and enter into the womb of a mother and again come out and again begin another chapter of life, what is this happiness? Hmm? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. No, this is the position. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "It is not good business." Na sādhu manye. Now what is the wrong there? Just like the Hawaii student. Wrong is there that you'll get a body, and to get body means suffering—any body, whatever body you'll get. Yata ātmano 'yam asann api. Although you can say, "All right, suffering, it will end with the body." Just like modern science: "Everything will be ended with the body." But not... It will appear in different way. But at least so long you'll live, you have to suffer. Asann api. The body will not endure, but the suffering will continue. That they do not understand. This is called mode of ignorance, mūḍha.

So we should not lose the chance of ending our suffering. We must know what is the suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha (BG 13.9). Duḥkha means suffering. And the real suffering is to take birth and then again die. And between birth and death there is old age and disease. Who can deny it? Where is the scientist: "Yes, we shall end all this nonsense"? (chuckling) Nobody can end it. It is not possible. But they are trying. Durāśaya. Hoping something which will never be fulfilled. Is it not? Their material adventure for mitigating suffering, will it be possible? (aside:) Hmm. Bring some sugar cane, er, sugar candy. Mode of ignorance is very, very bad. Little more advance: mode of passion. Further advance: mode of knowledge. Further advance is spiritual position. Just see. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the human society the best knowledge, and they have combined together to oppose it. How mode of ignorance is prominent. The simple method is to hear about Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya (SB 12.3.51). Simple. We have given so many books. Always we should hear about Kṛṣṇa, speak about Kṛṣṇa. Then this base quality, ignorance and passion, will go. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). So wherever you remain, you should continue this. Otherwise māyā will attack. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So we should hold classes very repeatedly and preach. What is the complainant of the opposing party?

Brahmānanda: That we are zombies.

Prabhupāda: Jombies? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Zombie.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a robot.

Brahmānanda: We have no brain. We are like machine.

Prabhupāda: We are machine?

Hari-śauri: Can't think for yourself.

Brahmānanda: They say that we have no freedom of choice.

Prabhupāda: Children has got also the same thing. Why the father stops? Children want to play. They do not like to go to school. Father does not like it. Is that father's attempt to check the child's freedom? Every father is doing that. The government is doing that. Why government is checking criminality? Hmm? Why government chastising those who are criminals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because what they are doing is not good for themselves and for others.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What the criminal does is not good for himself nor for anyone else. So the government chastises them.

Prabhupāda: What is the definition of criminality?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One who breaks the law of the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is the law of government? The law of government is to give the citizen best life. So similarly, if we are trying to give them best life, why we should be checked? We are asking them, "No meat-eating, no gambling." So is that bad instruction?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By their definition it may be.

Prabhupāda: That is... Your criminal law will also criticize that "Why you are giving this instruction?" The two parties must be there, duality. If I accuse you of some criminality, you'll say, "Why you are checking my freedom?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they have forgotten God, they no longer understand what is best for themselves.

Prabhupāda: They are like animals.

Hari-śauri: They're not able to discriminate properly.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Like that newspaper article, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Puzzle. Are they good or are they bad?"

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Why do they take "puzzle?"

Bhavānanda: You wanted that map of the pukura? (unfolds map)

Prabhupāda: Hmm-hmm. (break) Cats also do not disturb. But everyone is fully fed and happy. The first problem is eating. So if you produce like tons, this corn alone can feed everyone. It is so nice food. Corn you can smash, and the powder portion you can use as flour, and the portion which is not powder, the hard portion, you can use as rice. And it is more nutritious than flour, wheat flour, and ordinary rice. And very cheap—cheaper than the ordinary rice and cheaper than the ordinary wheat. But you can utilize it—both dāl, bhāta. Vegetable and fat. From milk you get so much life. Complete food.

Bhavānanda: I was very impressed with that farm when I visited it. Nicest. I saw one little kitten in the barn, and there was milk coming out of the cow's milkbag, and it was falling into the kitten's mouth.

Prabhupāda: Dropping.

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important animal. And then, when she passes stool and urine, that is also nice. The milk is nutritious; the stool is useful; the urine is useful. Why this poor animal should be slaughtered? What kind of civilization? Your material desires—eating, sleeping, mating—fulfill it like a gentleman and save time and make spiritual advancement. This is to be introduced. Why you are inventing so strenuous work and spoil time, valuable time of human life? This we want to preach. Save time, be spiritually advanced, and other necessities, make it gentlemanly short-cut. If you save time, you can read all these literatures, understand what is value of life. Therefore, the literature here. Not for all. The brāhmaṇas, educated. And they'll distribute the knowledge by speaking. Others, those who are less intelligent, simply by hearing they will be guided. Just be convinced what kind of civilization we are trying to introduce. We should not be carried away. Then finished. In order to check others, if we become carried away, (laughing) then finish all business. To save them from being washed away by māyā, if we become washed away, then where is the hope? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). Be strong so that you may not be rascal, and then you can do; others you can check. Otherwise, it will be impossible. How it is possible? A man is drowning. If you are strong enough, you can save him. But if you also become drowned, then how you'll save him? So the everything is there. Save yourself, save others. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. First of all save yourself; then try to save others. Or both things can go on simultaneously. The same example: if you want to save somebody who's drowning, you must know that "I may not be washed away. I have to remain strong; then I can save him." Everyone is presenting himself as the saver, savior. These politicians and these philanthropist, humanitarian, they have taken the slogan, "To serve the humanity..." What is that slogan? "...is to serve God?"

Bhavānanda: "Service to man is service to God."

Prabhupāda: He cannot save himself, he is serving man. Our mission is very great. People have not understood yet. Now here is a chance in the court. Let it be prolonged, and let it be threadbare judged. There's a good chance. Let it continue. And in the mode of defense we explain everything. Our defense pleader must be very expert, take instruction from us. We give nice, and he'll place before the court. It will be published in the paper.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a very good man.

Prabhupāda: They must know what is the value of this mission, brainwashed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a man who is very much eager to fight this case.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he's a first-class fighter.

Prabhupāda: And give him hint: "This is wanted."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man is not simply a businessman, because in his former...

Prabhupāda: We want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was taking up on his own so many civil rights cases. He's a fighter for individual freedom.

Prabhupāda: Not only that. He should be convinced that "Here is a good mission for the human society."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are some very big persons now who have formed a group for the protection of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. And these men have specifically stated that it must be only for the protection of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, not others. They don't want to fight on behalf of any other movement—specifically this movement, because they are convinced of the philosophy of this movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. No, others, they are all bogus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are realizing that.

Prabhupāda: They're bogus.

Brahmānanda: They were trying to decide what to call the name of this group, something like "Concerned Citizens for the Protection of Hare Kṛṣṇa Devotees," something like that. So some of our own...

Prabhupāda: No, no. "To protect the human rights." Keep this name. What is human right? That we can explain. The human right is: here is an opportunity to understand God. So this society is giving that knowledge. If you don't give the human being the right of understanding God, then he's animal. You keep him as animal. The animal doesn't require, neither it is capable of understanding what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is his duty. He cannot understand. It is the only human being who can understand. And if you keep him in ignorance like dogs and hogs, that's a great harm to the human society. He got the opportunity. You don't give him; you withdraw the opportunity—what kind of civilization? By nature's way you have come to the position of understanding why you are suffering, how this material nature is working. "I am eternal. Why I am undergoing birth and death?" If you do not understand this problem, then what is the value of this human life? Eating, sleeping, mating—that is done by the animal. And this modern civilization, keeping them in ignorance, that "Eating, sleeping, better style of eating, and that is advancement." And that is also not better style. Eating meat, keeping slaughterhouse—is that better style of eating?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animal living.

Prabhupāda: The tigers also do that. But you say, "Oh, we have got machine, cunning; tiger has to fight." This is their advancement of civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bigger animals.

Prabhupāda: Acting like animals and going on as civilized. This is modern civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to find so many things out from our past. They are trying to find any devotees who have left the movement, and they're trying to ask them so many questions to try and find something out that is wrong. Now, one devotee came to us—he's not a devotee anymore—Manasvī.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this Manasvī came one day to see Ādi-keśa and myself. You may recall in New York he had asked for a letter exonerating him. So you had told me to investigate. So I sent out a letter to three persons: Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and Śrutakīrti and Śukadeva. But none of them could find anything wrong with the accounts. Anyway, after a while I issued him one letter that at least to our..., from our accounts we have not found anything wrong. Anyway, so I thought that would satisfy him. So recently he came, and now he says, "I am finding so much difficulty from my father-in-law, because he lent me some money, now I have to pay back this money, and I'm having great difficulty. And I'm suffering on account of ISKCON has given me so much harassment for getting my..., against getting my citizenship here. So now the DA, the District Attorney, has approached me, offering me money to speak things about this movement. Of course, I do not want to speak these things, but I am so much needing money." Blackmail. This man has become the blackest snake I have ever seen. So "I do not want to tell them anything." He's told them everything he knows already. It's clear by the way he was talking that he's already spoken to them everything. So we told him that "We have nothing to hide. You may speak as much as you like. We have absolutely nothing to hide. So we cannot give you any money." Then again he called me on the telephone: "Now you have given me one letter," he told me, "which says that I was not doing anything wrong. But it is a fact that I have suffered so much, so my lawyer has advised me that I can sue the Society." So I pointed out to him that the letter I gave him was on ISKCON Incorporated of New York letterhead, but the charges are against ISKCON Hawaii, which is a separate organization. So practically the letter has no value, because I have no qualification for commenting on ISKCON Hawaii. I'm not an officer, nor do I have anything to do with them, so the letter is useless. I told him he can use it for... Well, anyway, I won't say... (laughter) Anyway. He's so black snake.

Prabhupāda: Black snake, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You helped him so many times.

Hari-śauri: He's a known thief, anyway.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man stole from his father, and it is clear now that he joined this movement only to get an American woman and to go to America. I think he never had much intention to worship Kṛṣṇa. He's eating meat, and his wife... Immediately when they came to America he ordered his wife, "Now you cook meat." He looks very different now. He looks like a rākṣasa.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Feature is rākṣasa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they're getting this information, but what can they do? They're getting so much information from these devotees who have left.

Prabhupāda: What is that information?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they're trying to find some imperfection and all, but they cannot.

Prabhupāda: We are not perfect. We're trying to be perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's just like the Christian Church. The book may be very good, but if someone doesn't follow, it doesn't mean their religion is bad.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they cannot condemn our religion. The books are perfect.

Prabhupāda: (someone brings some prasādam) Nahī, one or two will do. Why so many? That's... So what benefit he has got, this Manasvī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, he is at a great loss. Any position he had here when he was a devotee, he has lost everything. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...with this lantern? Electricity was introduced when we were boy, and that also not every house could provide electricity. Formerly they used to utilize gas, coal gas. If one man has got gaslight in his house, he is considered to be rich man. And gas mantle. Formerly electricity was... What is that? Carbon? Two carbon? In the morning it has to be changed. That Mahatma Gandhi Road was Harrison Road. So in our childhood, when the carbon would be changed, they would throw; we shall collect it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you do with it?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no. Play. "We have collected something." So electricity was introduced in our life when we were ten, twelve years old. Before that, there was no electricity.

Brahmānanda: But still you were able to read.

Prabhupāda: With this lantern. With this.

Brahmānanda: Nowadays they think if there is no electricity then there can be no civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: That is their standard.

Prabhupāda: But still you are forced to take help of this lantern when there is no electricity. (chuckles)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This electricity has enabled so much...

Prabhupāda: What is the price of one tin kerosene?

Bhavānanda: It's sold by liter. I don't know. About 90 paisa per liter, one rupee per liter.

Prabhupāda: And one tin, how many liter?

Bhavānanda: It depends on how many liters the tin holds. Five liters, twenty-liter tin.

Prabhupāda: So price has not increased very much.

Bhavānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Because in our childhood we used to purchase one big canister, Monkey Brand. That was considered to be very first class. Less smoke. Four rupees, two annas.

Bhavānanda: But now it's difficult to get.

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to stock huge stock in Calcutta. Burmah Shell. And new tin, if you exchanged the container, then six annas less. Not very costly. Of course, in those days it was costly, taking consideration of the purchasing power of money. Four rupees, I remember, a few annas. My father did not like to purchase anything retail. For his daily necessity he'll purchase..., he would purchase potato, one bag. So one bag means, maybe, one rupee, eight annas. (laughs) One anna per seer, kilo, I have purchased. Rice, fifteen mounds he will purchase. And what is the price? Three rupees, four annas. First-class rice. Coal, this coal, coke—five annas per mound; purchase one cartload, fifteen mounds. The other day I was calculating, my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees per month in those days. And taking gold standard, my mother was purchasing gold from my cousin—he has gold shop—twenty rupees per tolā, first-class gold. Now it is six hundred rupees per tolā. (break) ...in those days thirty rupees per month. For thirty rupees, clerical staff, if you increase thirty times, how much it comes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine hundred.

Prabhupāda: Nine hundred rupees. So where the clerk is getting nine hundred rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is upper middle class.

Prabhupāda: Nobody. No clerk is getting nine hundred rupees. Maybe officers, superintendent, they are getting. So actually people have not increased their income. That means they have become poor. Thirty rupees' clerk is very good position in those days. And sixty rupees' clerk, that is superintendent. The things were cheap. And two hundred rupees, officer—big income. The high-court judges were getting four thousand rupees in those days. What they are getting now? I don't think their salary has increased. Maybe five thousand, six thousand. The governor was getting ten thousand. High-court judges were getting four thousand. And secretaries were getting five hundred to one thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People have become poor—poor materially and spiritually. Actually it's clear that the devotees are becoming wealthy materially and spiritually, and that is one of the reasons that these demons are so angry—because they see our opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are surprised (laughs) that "These people do not do anything, and they're living so opulent?" They inquired in Los Angeles. You know that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Brahmānanda, you know that?

Brahmānanda: Yes, the neighbors.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were envious, that "How do you live so opulently? You do not do anything. You have got so many cars. You eat so nicely. You live in such a nice house. And no anxiety." (laughs)

Brahmānanda: That's why they think that we are CIA, because they think we're getting money from somewhere, from government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja accusing me that I have got two crores of rupees from American government to start this movement. (laughs) Even my Godbrother says, what to speak of others. Nobody is living such nice house, all of my Godbrothers. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None of them have done that.

Prabhupāda: They were unable. Neither they have got idea of aristocratically, how to live aristocratically. You won't find in any one of my Godbrothers a place like this. This is aristocratic. This is Indian aristocracy. Table-chair is not aristocratic. This is more comfortable. And cheap also.

Hari-śauri: If they saw somewhere like Detroit they'd really... If they saw the Detroit place, then they'd really...

Prabhupāda: Detroit?

Hari-śauri: For aristocratic living.

Brahmānanda: Our temple in Detroit is very opulent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is aristocratic house. You have seen it?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Before purchasing we went to see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is aristocratic house. They... Formerly, either Indian or American, Europe, aristocratic was the same—big, big rooms, very decorated; woman's quarter different, men's quarter different. No man can enter into woman's... Lavatory house, different; cooking house, different. This was Calcutta aristocracy. Those houses are now gone. No attached bathroom. The... Because it was service, how it can be attached bathroom? So they... A separate house, big house, only for passing stool. And if possible, a lake within the house. Aristocratic family, they would have lake within the house for using water.

Brahmānanda: Within the courtyard?

Prabhupāda: Not courtyard. Within the boundary, compound. The ramna badhi,(badhai?) vaikanna badhi, merde badhi, purusdera(?), four different courtyards. And who cared for city life in those days? Nobody. Everyone was satisfied in village. General people, they would not come to city. Only servant class. What business they have got from the city? Because their main income from the field, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya (BG 18.44). What they have got to do with the city? In the city, big, big zamindars, personally they had nothing to do. Their managers and sircars(?) were collecting money. That's all. And their extra money, they're constructing Ṭhākura Baddi, temple, just like that Mullik's Ṭhākura Baddi, and festival going on. That was aristocracy. They devoted their money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (pause) What is that? You have seen the Bengali?

Brahmānanda: Yes. This is being reprinted? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu is doing very nicely in printing.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. He has got good engagement. (break) ...his magazine.

Hari-śauri: Everybody that comes buys a magazine and a Bhagavāner Kathā.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavāner Kathā.

Hari-śauri: I was watching from the roof on Sunday. There were hundreds of visitors coming all through the day. And practically every group that went out, they were all... They had a magazine and a Bhagavāner Kathā and Gītār Gān.

Prabhupāda: Gītār Gān. Good field. And similarly, our Hindi. You have seen our Hindi?

Brahmānanda: Yes. What is that, Bhagavāni...?

Bhavānanda: Bhagavāner Kathā.

Prabhupāda: These are my old articles.

Hari-śauri: What Prabhupāda used to write in that magazine.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavāner Kathā, Bhakti Kathā.

Bhavānanda: The next one is Bhakti Kathā.

Prabhupāda: I was reading. It is done nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they'll study carefully. These people here will study it very carefully.

Brahmānanda: In New York I met one man who knew you from many years ago. He also saw you, Mr., I think, Chakravarti. He was associated with Gauḍīya Maṭha as a young boy, and he said you would come to visit... There's one Puruṣottama Mahārāja, or Paramahaṁsa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Paramahaṁsa Mahārāja? Where he was?

Brahmānanda: He was in New York. He was coming to our temple regularly.

Prabhupāda: Now what he is?

Brahmānanda: He's studying some...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Brahmānanda: ...conservation. He studied in London. He met you... You had invited him to come and stay in the temple. Sometimes he comes and stays overnight.

Prabhupāda: I don't remember. He stays in New York? Oh, yes, yes. I remember. Hmm.

Brahmānanda: Our devotee stayed with him, this one girl who was kidnapped. The police were looking for her. So they arranged... He lives out on Long Island; he made arrangement for them to stay. The police were looking all over, but they couldn't find.

Prabhupāda: She gave shelter..., he gave?

Brahmānanda: He gave shelter, Yes. Mother Śīlavatī and this girl, they stayed with him. He very much admired Mother Śīlavatī's austerity, how she was just taking a little milk, little vegetable and nothing else, but always engaged. He was impressed.

Prabhupāda: Śīlavatī is in New York?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Where are her sons?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are in māyā. (Prabhupāda chuckles) She now engages in book distribution also.

Prabhupāda: No, she is very nice woman. From the beginning she is devotee. She is about fifty years old? Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, at least fifty years old. Yes, her hair is gray.

Brahmānanda: She wears all white sārīs. Other women that age, they would be looking for another husband, another husband, another husband.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Widow life is also brahmacārī life. This printing is all right? At least for India it is very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The paper quality I saw that Gopāla is using now is getting much better.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The book could be sold anywhere in the world. The most recent publications of his could be sold anywhere.

Brahmānanda: His Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Very good.

Brahmānanda: When we were there he was putting together a Hindi Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: It was just going to the printer.

Prabhupāda: You have seen the printing?

Brahmānanda: No, he was just laying it out, getting ready to give for printing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is very ambitious to print all these books. He seems to be working on it day and night.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good team. Gargamuni is distributing, and Gopāla is publishing. Gargamuni has so many standing orders.

Prabhupāda: Encourage them. (devotees offer obeisances) Yes, jaya Narasiṁha. (end)