770127 - Conversation B - Bhuvanesvara
Satsvarūpa: They should give something for taking prasādam. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . anna-sambhavaḥ.
Satsvarūpa: "Surrender to Me." Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ (BG 3.14).
Prabhupāda: Then there is rainfall . . .
Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then there is food grains. We see this dry land . . . Because for the last few days, when changing his water he's pouring water here, we see grass growing. Water required. A vast tract of land here is lying. If there is sufficient rainfall you can very easily grow food. But so far rainfall is concerned, it is not in your hand. You rascal scientist, why don't you arrange for this? Everyone knows that from the sea, water is evaporated and it is made cloud and thrown all over the land. So why don't you do that? There is enough water.
Satsvarūpa: It's too big a job. They can't . . . It's too big a job.
Prabhupāda: Then they . . . what kind of scientists?
Satsvarūpa: They can do a teeny bit in a laboratory, make some water.
Prabhupāda: So still, we have to accept them scientist?
Satsvarūpa: Everyone has simply bluffed by their word jugglery, and by whatever little bit they've done. They said, "We've done this. Now you must worship us." And people are indebted.
Prabhupāda: So we have to challenge them like that. And as soon as you challenge, "Yes, wait millions of years." That's all.
Satsvarūpa: They say, "Actually we are working on that, how to make rain."
Satsvarūpa: They'll say, "Yes, actually we are working on that problem of making rain."
Prabhupāda: What is the working? People are suffering; you are working. There is a Bengali proverb, sate kushti golpe gelun(?). There was a big fair. One has to go there. So he began to dress himself nicely. So the time occupied for dressing, in the meantime the fair was finished. (laughs) Sate kushti golpe gelun(?). These are practical. You need immediately water. These rascals say, "Yes, wait. Wait for future."
Satsvarūpa: "Wait and give us billions of dollars, research."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Why shall I wait? Immediately necessary. (taking prasādam) You have no such power to evaporate the water and make into cloud and distribute. Very easily it is being done. Then why don't you accept somebody's doing that?
Satsvarūpa: If a scientist will accept there is God, then there is no harm in making scientific progress.
Prabhupāda: Then they will hear the words of God, Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be solved. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Then he will hear. They will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and there will be rain.
Satsvarūpa: If we condemn everything they do, then they say, "All right, if you think we're nonsense, then don't use our printing press for your books."
Prabhupāda: No. You are nonsense, that is accepted, but do not think that because you have manufactured printing press, you have become God. That is our proposal. We give you credit. And we can also say that without your printing press, people are not dying. Formerly people were copying. Everyone's business was going on. There was no need of mass studying. Only the brāhmaṇas, they used to copy, and they used to vibrate the knowledge. And those who were interested, they were hearing and getting the knowledge. So what was the harm? It is little facility that . . . The same logic: the dog is running, four legs; you are running by four wheels. That does not mean that the dog will die, you'll not die. You'll die also, and dog will die. So this four-wheel car will not help you ultimately. Ultimately you have to die.
Satsvarūpa: Because it is modern times, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can keep pace with all these things, but we don't need them. We can use this, but if we don't have it, then we don't need it.
Prabhupāda: We don't support it. Our business does not support. You can live without car, but you cannot live without rainfall. Why don't you take the important business? Make machine that the water from the sea can be drawn and saltless and distributed. Why don't you do that?
Satsvarūpa: They've put aside the big problems and doing little things.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Childish. Every day the consumer's goods are increasing in price. So many poor men, they cannot purchase. Your motorcar machine, that is not meant for the poor man. Poor man requires food grains. There is no water. What you are doing for that? They require bread, food grains. Supply them sufficiently. They'll be happy. Without motorcar they can live. You can live also. But without food grains you cannot live and they cannot live.
Satsvarūpa: They can't do it, but then when we say, "Rains will come by yajña," they'll say "No."
Prabhupāda: No, that is . . . You don't believe it, but here is the . . . That means you do not believe in God. Why don't you make an experiment? Ask everybody to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, kīrtana. As soon as you say you don't believe, then you don't believe in God, "God says." That is your disease. I can give you so many points. You have to elaborate it.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. You give them already elaborate.
Satsvarūpa: You give everything.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Water is there.
Prabhupāda: Lunchtime you'll make some cāpāṭi, very thin. I think I shall take cāpāṭis, a little rice. I'll give you instruction.
Pālikā: And what?
Prabhupāda: And at the time I shall tell you. Not any of the same thing. (chuckles) Everyone wants to cook for me.
Prabhupāda: But this girl, (laughs) she travels all over the world, spending her own money or society money?
Satsvarūpa: Society. She's the only one who's actually regular that is doing it good.
Prabhupāda: No, she is very responsible. Whatever I say, at least she tries to do it best. That is her qualification. Nahī, everyone is doing. Nobody's . . .
Satsvarūpa: Yes. Nanda-kumāra wanted to do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nanda-kumāra, as a sannyāsī, he should better preach. I have no objection. It is up to you to decide. (hums) I don't give much credit to the scientists. I give them credit as far as they deserve. It is not that I don't give them credit. Why shall I not? But they deny the existence, and they say "We shall conquer over nature, and we shall make according to our necessity." These rascals I challenge.
Satsvarūpa: Just like you give credit to your cook.
Satsvarūpa: But that does not mean that the cook is . . .
Prabhupāda: Take credit as much as you deserve.
Satsvarūpa: The history of civilization in the West is that for centuries people believed whatever the Bible said about existence, and then, when science developed, the Bible did not appear very wise anymore, so they . . . they overthrew all the dogmatic teachings.
Prabhupāda: They are dogmatic teachings.
Satsvarūpa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.
Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith; it is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.
Satsvarūpa: And in the beginning, when science began, modern science, the scientists would say something against the Bible that was different than the Bible, then they would torture him. The church would torture him, this Galileo, big scien . . . So they point these things out, that the church is not tolerant.
Prabhupāda: That is not our point. We want to understand God through philosophy. "Through philosophy" means logic. Blind faith is not our business. (break) ". . . such date I have posted. You have got the literature. If you permit me, then I can show some of the books." Then our local representatives advise, "You go and see this gentleman." In this way contact him and leave some books with him, that "You first of all see. Then decide." Very honest business.
Satsvarūpa: Gargamuni suggests that I start with Indians in Am . . . There are Indians all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Mmm. (end).