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770109 - Conversation B - Bombay

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770109R2-BOMBAY - January 09, 1977 - 47:03 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Then somebody must be there to look after the construction.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can send one boy, Vijeta, from here. He's not doing very much, and he's on the construction department. I was just waiting for Saurabha to come back.

Prabhupāda: So he can go, because Gaura-Govinda will be engaged for collecting.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Vijeta and his wife, they can both go right now. He is . . .

Prabhupāda: Very bitter.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This medicine?

Prabhupāda: So? You had been there?

Jagadīśa: We're going . . . all three of us are going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At one o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So what other news?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I had previously told you that the BBT was . . . because it's doing very heavy printing at the moment, say, for about two months, we need a little loan.

Prabhupāda: You showed me you have got four lakhs.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is including an accounts receivable. That money's invested in books.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Para-hasta tataṁ dhanam.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Like Gargamuni owes BBT one and a half lakhs.

Prabhupāda: I know that. That is called para-hasta tataṁ dhanaṁ puti-gata-vidyā. "I am very learned man." How? "Now I can speak when I see the books." That means "Personally, I have not assimilated anything. I can . . . and I have got money. I have to realize this." (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these are books already sold. These are books sold.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, but the money is not in your hand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He sends twenty thousand rupees every month and . . . these are books that . . . last month only he hasn't sent us. These are books that are already sold.

Prabhupāda: So realize this money. Otherwise, what is the value of this money if you cannot realize?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Also we're doing a lot of printing in Bengali and other languages.

Prabhupāda: So anyway, they are selling books. They must pay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Yes. So I was . . . if we could get a loan of one lakh for two or three months, because now we are printing the Gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto.

Prabhupāda: So that I can give, loan. I am giving . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Within two or three . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . but you never return.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I returned all your loans. In Vṛndāvana loans were all . . . we haven't taken any loan in Vṛndāvana. The only loan which I didn't return was which was taken from Māyāpur two years ago with Jayapatāka; I'm supposed to pay back. The BBT . . .

Prabhupāda: So now you . . . our big business brain is here, Rāmeśvara. If he recommends, I can do.

Rāmeśvara: For his . . .?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For the book expansion.

Prabhupāda: He wants one lakh loan. So if you recommend, I'll give.

Rāmeśvara: Who's going to drive the party?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is for book printing. Bhavabhuti's going to handle the party.

Rāmeśvara: The loan is for book printing?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, for book printing. We're printing the Bhagavad-gītā now.

Rāmeśvara: Then who's going to pay for the vehicles? You are. Right?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: I think the loan is for the vehicles. Who's taking out the party? (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. No, it's not. I'm going to . . .

Prabhupāda: Now, cool headed, you can study the situation. If you recommend, I'll give.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Thing is, I only wanted you to give . . .

Prabhupāda: No, you convince him. If he recommends, I'll give you.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, before you go I'll . . .

Prabhupāda: He is businesslike. I know it. So if he recommends, I'll give. He's very correct to his word. Businessman is correct to his word. That is the . . . no speculation. Now our Hyderabad affair is not in very order.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So what to do? Rāmeśvara, you are here. You can see. They are not cooperating. And besides that, Mahāṁsa takes loan; he never returns. He has taken about five lakhs for the temple. So I have already told to the auditor and the . . . they are . . . (indistinct) . . . this is going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we are working . . .

Prabhupāda: So you keep account in such a way that whatever income it is, it is spent for books. Finished. You also do there. Whatever income you get, you spend for promotion. This principle should be followed. All businessmen are doing that. Whatever income is there, it is spent for maintenance establishment. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like if we buy a bus also, it's going to increase our expenses.

Prabhupāda: And gṛhastha devotees who are actually engaged, you can give them some expenditure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think what you said, fifty rupees a week, is okay.

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With one child, fifty rupees a week.

Prabhupāda: For child only?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I mean, those who don't have children, their expenses are low, so they should get less.

Prabhupāda: They have no expenditure. What expenditure? They are getting free boarding and lodging.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Maybe little. But that our ISKCON can supply. Of course, one who has got children, they require little. So manage like that, that there is no profit. That's all. Keep account in that way. (pause) So this one lakh of rupees, if you take, when you'll return?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll return it by March, because on this export order, it's very high profit just on the . . .

Rāmeśvara: When you borrow, do you give Śrīla Prabhupāda interest on it?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give. I have never borrowed so far money. I haven't borrowed a penny so far except once, when I came . . .

Prabhupāda: "That I did not pay." (laughs) When he takes money, he says, "No, it is not to be paid." Therefore it is no borrowing. Several times I have given you money.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've never borrowed . . . just once, Jayapatāka's loan, right when I came to India.

Prabhupāda: All right. Now if he recommends, I'll give.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And since the Vṛndāvana temple opened, we did about three, four lakhs' worth of construction without taking one penny from you.

Prabhupāda: I am giving one lakh rupees per month.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, that is for Gurukula. Plus we contributed about three lakhs to Gurukula construction. Two lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Now we are paying two lakhs per month.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the initial stages the Gurukula construction was done from the money that we had collected in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: No. From the beginning I am paying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: About two lakhs went out of Vṛndāvana temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So that day is nice?

Pradyumna: February 2nd. Wednesday. It is Wednesday, Bhudavar . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So in Orissa you'll be also there?

Rāmeśvara: They want me to go back to Los Angeles for that concert, because the governor is coming. That popular Hindu singer, Lata Mangeshkar, she's giving a benefit concert in Los Angeles on January 30th.

Prabhupāda: So who will be the big ticket purchaser?

Rāmeśvara: Satsvarūpa. Oh. You mean in Los Angeles?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Hindus.

Rāmeśvara: There are approximately eight thousand Hindus living in Los Angeles, and we have rented one auditorium that seats six thousand people. So if they only sell two thousand seats, it does not cost any money. It covers all the expenses. Anything over two thousand seats is profit for ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: So how many Indians are there?

Rāmeśvara: Altogether in Los Angeles, eight thousand. Plus Indians from San Francisco will come to this concert, because she is very popular. Gopāla sent one devotee, Jagat-puruṣa, to manage the ticket selling.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is expert.

Rāmeśvara: And we are trying to print one souvenir book also and take advertisements from local stores and shops, and then sell the . . . in this way we will also make money. (break)

Prabhupāda: So you have to go back?

Rāmeśvara: They want me to be there to make sure the concert is a success. And Satsvarūpa Mahārāja is coming for Kumbha-melā. So he's planning to stay on with you for the whole month of February and March as secretary.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And you are going to Vṛndāvana?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to Kumbha-melā first.

Jagadīśa: . . . has business there to be . . .

Prabhupāda: You are not attending Kumbha-melā. You are going to Delhi from here.

Jagadīśa: I'm thinking about going to Kumbha-melā first, for a couple of days.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, this is our main program: print books as many as possible and distribute. This is our main program. All other programs secondary. So with this aim in view, work all together. Our Caitanya-caritāmṛta is unique literature. For Caitanya-caritāmṛta, we are above any ācārya. There are four ācāryas: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī . . . but our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's legacy, ācārya, that is unique. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau. Here the Supreme Personality of Godhead is personally teaching—ācārya. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam. The highest topmost bliss, madhurya. These dealings of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, madhurya-rasa, is the contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All other ācāryas, they could not give up to this. All other ācāryas, they contributed up to friendship—no vatsalya, neither madhurya. That is this contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was dealings of mother Yasoda with Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavata. The Vallabhācāryas, they have got Bala Kṛṣṇa. But the dealings of gopīs with Kṛṣṇa, that was not granted. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution. Anarpita-carim means was never contributed.

anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau
samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasaṁ sva-bhakti-sriyam
hariḥ pūvata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandipitaḥ
sadā hṛdaya-kandare sphurati . . .
(CC Adi 1.4)

That is the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. How do they like Caitanya-caritāmṛta in Western countries?

Rāmeśvara: The devotees like it. They relish.

Prabhupāda: It is for the devotees. It is not for the neophyte.

Rāmeśvara: It's a little difficult for the average man if it is his first book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not for the neophyte. Those who are actually in devotional service—for them it is.

Rāmeśvara: Mostly we are selling Bhagavad-gītā, ratio of two Bhagavad-gītās for every other book, twice as many Bhagavad-gītā's, as an introduction.

Prabhupāda: That is the introduction. And Śrīmad Bhāgavatam?

Rāmeśvara: First Canto. Mostly First Canto. We're only printing twenty thousand copies of every volume. But of First Canto we always print fifty thousand copies. And now Bhagavad-gītā, we have printed one and a half million copies.

Prabhupāda: That's abridged.

Rāmeśvara: For one year's sales.

Prabhupāda: That's very nice. (laughs) One and half million.

Rāmeśvara: They say it is the largest printing in the history of the Western United States. They are giving Bhaktivedanta Book Trust credit now for the largest printing of any publisher in the Western United States for one title. And for our printer, the only books . . . he has never printed . . . he prints encyclopedia, he prints the Bible, but he has never printed so many copies of one book all at one time. This one and a half million copies is to be printed all at once.

Prabhupāda: They are proud of printing.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is good.

Rāmeśvara: He says that his press will have to run continuously for twenty days . . . continuously for twenty days and twenty nights just to print all these books, without taking any other business.

Prabhupāda: That is a great . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In India it would take one year to do.

Prabhupāda: They have very big, big printing press.

Rāmeśvara: They are so proud that they have offered to hold a big press conference to announce to the press and all the journals of printers that they have gotten this order to print so many copies of Bhagavad-gītā from the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Let them say that. This is our advertising. And let this opposition party understand that, "If it is brainwash, then your whole country is now washed. (laughter) How you'll protect them? It is already washed." Tell them like that, humorous.

Rāmeśvara: The price of this printing . . .

Prabhupāda: Very cheap. No, we are supplying also very cheap.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. But last year we printed 500,000 copies; this year, one and a half million copies, and the savings was $200,000. We have gotten them to reduce the price so much that now, just because we have ordered so many books, we will save 200,000 . . .

Prabhupāda: Why not spend some money for advertisement? It will be noticed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can advertise them in prestigious papers like Reader's Digest in America, or printer's . . .

Prabhupāda: Nice advertisement. Spend some money.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That will increase our prestige.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But we should advertise in America as Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, not Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no. As Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Actually, we have to keep ourselves.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Advertise as BBT, because no connection with Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: If you have got excess money, you can advertise. There is no need of keeping money. Spend.

Rāmeśvara: Money will be excess after the Māyāpur festival.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Between now and Māyāpur it's very tight.

Prabhupāda: Very prestigious papers like Time, Reader's Digest. Reader's Digest is the highest circulation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in the world. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Sunday New York Times has a big section just on books, and that's the most respected in the world, their books section and their book reviews. That is very prestigious. All the leading people read it.

Prabhupāda: But wherever you advertise, it must be prominent. It must immediately come to the notice. You can spend little more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, this advertising will also increase our college orders, because even college professors and librarians read papers. So when our salesmen go there, they'll say: "Oh, I saw your advertisement in the papers."

Prabhupāda: On nice pages you just give your . . . another proposal was that some New York or somewhere somebody is proposing to sell individually. Who was that?

Jagadīśa: Encyclopedia?

Prabhupāda: Like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: House to house.

Prabhupāda: Who was speaking about that? You told me? Somebody told me.

Jagadīśa: Girirāja, I think.

Rāmeśvara: It's a little difficult, because the way they sell encyclopedias is they leave all the books at one time, and then the person every month makes a monthly payment. So if he refuses . . . once he reads the book and finds out that it is telling him to be Kṛṣṇa bhakta, he may stop sending his money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also it's becoming hard to enter these houses in America. In fact, door-to-door salesmen are having a difficult time now. Because of security reasons, they don't let any outside peddlars into the building.

Prabhupāda: That is always—trespass. Their trespass law is very strict in USA. There are dogs, and there are revolver, and trespasser, if he is killed, there is no offense. Is it not? It is very dangerous. I know one incident took place in New York. Some yogī came. So he was . . . you know that? So I became very irritated. So I asked him, "Get him out immediately." So my men got him out. He went to the police, and he said that he was assaulted and so on, complained. The police came and inquired. So there were so many inquiries. But I did not know . . . then I said that, "He came to me without invitation." "Oh!" Immediately he dismissed. "I did not ask him to come. He came to me and disturbed me." So immediately, "Oh . . ." He decided. So that law is very strict. And that is very good. Nobody can come without invitation or engagement. Otherwise they trespass. Is it?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes they use this law against us.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Rāmeśvara: We're coming to these shopping centers to sell our books, and they say: "We have not invited you. Please go away." It is called the right of the property owner to allow on his property whoever he wants. So these gigantic shopping centers invite the public to buy only from them, not from us. So they restrict us.

Prabhupāda: They are not inviting us.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all private property.

Rāmeśvara: Our book-selling is going on on the public property, like the airports. But the stores and the shopping centers are privately owned, so it's illegal. Sometimes our men will do it anyway, take a chance in disguise.

Prabhupāda: So they are taking risk for Kṛṣṇa. That is great service. Kṛṣṇārthe 'khila ceṣṭaḥ. That is one of the valuable service—for Kṛṣṇa's sake, all kinds of dangerous position. Somebody's knocking?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'll explain this to Rāmeśvara later on, and if you approve, then . . . because now we have just finished hundred thousand Gītār Gyān . . .

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it will be paid. Just see. (hums)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to see some photographs of Bharadvāja's work? I'll go get them.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Pālikā: What kind of dāl would you like today?

Prabhupāda: You can make like yesterday.

Pālikā: Also, I have brought drumsticks from the bazaar.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Pālikā: In which sabjī should I put?

Prabhupāda: Put in the posta. But you must take out the skin.

Pālikā: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: These were taken just before I left Los Angeles. This is a figure of Kṛṣṇa from the rasa-līlā being dressed in cloth.

Prabhupāda: His face is like Acyutānanda. (Rāmeśvara chuckles) Acyutānanda's face is beautiful.

Rāmeśvara: This figure is going to be Lord Gadādhara in the exhibit of the Pañca-tattva dancing at kīrtana. She is just beginning to make the form.

Prabhupāda: So you have got any business?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So let . . . let me finish. (break) . . . but devotees of. Oh.

Rāmeśvara: These two pictures show dolls being painted.

Prabhupāda: Why not engage Govinda dāsī?

Rāmeśvara: If she will come, she can be engaged in many ways.

Prabhupāda: She is also very expert.

Rāmeśvara: She doesn't like the weather in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Doesn't like? Why? What is wrong there? Los Angeles is very nice. I like Los Angeles.

Rāmeśvara: Only the spring and summer. I think it's in her mind.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles is very nice. What is this?

Rāmeśvara: This is going to be one of the demigods in one of the exhibits. The painting is very, very expert. I've seen some of the dolls that are painted. They look alive.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Rāmeśvara: Even in the eye there is a little moisture as if the eye is . . .

Prabhupāda: Very natural. So I see the dolls . . . intelligent boys, they can do it—educated, intelligent. Very good, nice. So many students are engaged . . .

Rāmeśvara: This is like pottery. Spinning on the wheel. He is designing the ornaments for the crown. Each doll of the demigods has a different crown. That's how they make them, on a spinning wheel just like a potter.

Prabhupāda: They are devising their own way, eh?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: This is part of the Universal Form exhibit. This is Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Oh, lying down.

Rāmeśvara: Very big. He's bigger than a human being.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Rāmeśvara: And this will be the Universal Form. He will have many heads and many arms. And with the controlling the lighting, His image will appear in mirrors on the ceiling and on the walls, so everywhere you look you'll see Him.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) All-pervading. It is very, very good improvement. Encouraging. People will enjoy this.

Rāmeśvara: And He is lying on Śeṣa. This exhibit is so spectacular, this Universal Form. It is more impressive than anything, I think, in America, because at a certain point there is even a machine which makes different fragrances in the air.

Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders that, "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"

Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. Is it good for your nation? Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.

Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-nāga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber, and they have all the details.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You do yourself?

Rāmeśvara: They do, yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is benefit of rubber?

Rāmeśvara: It has something to do with the curves.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In clay, it cannot.

Rāmeśvara: They started manufacturing it, many at a time. That's what they used. This is a doll of Kṛṣṇa speaking to Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Nobody can think it is doll. How many men are engaged?

Rāmeśvara: I think thirty devotees. That includes all the carpenters and the . . .

Prabhupāda: And they are becoming expert, so that in future many others also.

Rāmeśvara: This is a doll of Lord Caitanya. That devotee is Ādideva. He was here, in India, studying with Bharadvāja.

Prabhupāda: I simply see how the devotees are engaged in so nice occupation. This painting, this taking, thinking of Caitanya, thinking of Kṛṣṇa—this is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is . . . nobody can deny. When he's working in this way he cannot think of other way. That will elevate him, simply by thinking. Man-manā. He'll derive greatest benefit. He'll become devotee. He'll get liberation from this material world simply by doing that, it is so nice. So in all our centers have this doll exhibit.

Rāmeśvara: This is Lord Nityānanda. Very blissful.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi guṇa mani āmāra nitāi-guṇa mani, āmiya premera bandha vasala ayantu. (Nitāi Guṇa Mani Āmāra)

Rāmeśvara: These little dolls are Gandharvas. There will be over two hundred of them in the Universal Form exhibit.

Prabhupāda: Who is this girl?

Rāmeśvara: That is one of the doll makers' wives.

Prabhupāda: What are the small?

Rāmeśvara: Those are the Gandharvas. Each Gandharva . . . there are hundreds of them. They have their own outfit, different colored dresses and different ornaments, all made by hand.

Prabhupāda: So small?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Because there are hundreds of them. But in the mirrors there will be millions of them . . .

Prabhupāda: Acchā. (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: . . . filling the whole sky and all directions.

Prabhupāda: Very good. So encourage them.

Rāmeśvara: This is inside one of the exhibits. This is part of the wall, and this is a scene of the phalanxes at Kurukṣetra. And then behind them and above, there is this painting, and it is like a curve. In the middle will be Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This . . . what injustice. So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government that, "Just see, Your Lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.

Rāmeśvara: It is like you wrote in that letter to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, "They did not mind when the children were hippies, taking drugs, having prostitutes. But now that they have joined Hare Kṛṣṇa, now they are kidnapping you. They did not protest formerly when they were engaged in all sinful life. Now they are completely pure, now they are complaining."

Jagadīśa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.

Rāmeśvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.

Prabhupāda: And how devotedly he is working. That is the . . . that, "I am . . ." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Kṛṣṇa. This is advancement.

Rāmeśvara: They are working, minimum, twelve hours daily just on the dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not become tired. Kṛṣṇa conscious work is so nice, nobody becomes tired. He wants to do more. Dui lage hura huri. Competition. This is spiritual.

Rāmeśvara: This is one devotee who is painting the demigods, dolls of the demigods.

Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these people come from Muscat, Oman. That's where I went last month. Aap Muscat me rehte hai? (Do you stay in Muscat?) (break)

Rāmeśvara: . . . supervises all the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he should be engaged for propaganda.

Rāmeśvara: For every exhibit Bharadvāja has to make a complete drawing.

Prabhupāda: His wife is also helping?

Rāmeśvara: She is doing the sewing for the clothing. The whole show will be finished before Māyāpur, and Bharadvāja is coming for the festival. Then right after the festival we will go back to Los Angeles and have the grand opening.

Prabhupāda: Abhi toh Bombay me hai wo log. Jab samai hoy aaiyega, Bhagvan ko darshan karne. (They are here in Bombay right now. Whenever you have time, please come and have darśana of the Lord.)

Rāmeśvara: When it is finished, then we'll take color pictures and send them, in case you're still in India.

Prabhupāda: By the month of . . .

Rāmeśvara: It could be April, the grand opening, I think.

Prabhupāda: I may go there some time. From London to Los Angeles there is direct plane. Takes about ten hours, eh?

Rāmeśvara: Ten hours at least. Los Angeles to New York is five and a half, and New York to London another five hours, six hours.

Prabhupāda: Or in this way, about twelve hours, via . . .

Rāmeśvara: Too long a flight, I think. It would be better . . . it's too long a flight.

Prabhupāda: That directly from London to . . . that is the same?

Rāmeśvara: Too long.

Prabhupāda: Too long.

Rāmeśvara: Usually stopover in New York.

Prabhupāda: No, another northern flight from Paris, and from London it goes directly to Los Angeles.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, it's possible, but it's very uncomfortable.

Prabhupāda: Unstoppage, eh?

Rāmeśvara: Nonstop. I flew from London to Delhi nonstop.

Prabhupāda: That is eight hours.

Rāmeśvara: That's eight hours.

Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was . . . and the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be, what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength, this philosophy . . . everything wonderful. (break)

Rāmeśvara: . . . involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture—everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is . . . includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.

Rāmeśvara: The whole war of Kurukṣetra was just so Kṛṣṇa's devotees would rule the kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It was designed by Kṛṣṇa. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bās, finished, all the demons finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bās, finished." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin (BG 11.33): "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Kṛṣṇa's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise, without your help they are already killed." So . . . Kṛṣṇa . . . paritrāṇāya . . . He has got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is another side of His business. (end)