770105 - Conversation A - Bombay
Prabhupāda: Yes, I was very much satisfied. New Vrindaban. Who wrote it? Somebody went there in my New Vrindaban.
Indian man: I think Mr. Dvari. That I can find out.
Prabhupāda: isko thoda aaplog meherbani karke... if you people can do this kindly... The people are misled. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Artha-brāhmaṇa-paṇḍita. aap to brahman pandit hain. you are brahman scholar. Pandiya means . . .
Indian man: Yeah, brahmin.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's from Benares.
Prabhupāda: Pandiya means paṇḍita. Brahmin. brahman... uska naam hi hai pandit. brahman agar moorkh hua to kya. agar mookh bhi hai, Illiterate, lekin sanskari. his name is scholar. brahmna even if he is illiterate so what, but he is cultured.
Indian man: Actually ye kya bolta hai, actually what he says if a man is literate but if there is no saṁskāra, I can't say he is better than . . . if saṁskāra is there and no education, then still I call he is better man. The man without saṁskāra is nothing.
Prabhupāda: It is . . . that brahmacārī means saṁskāra, how to become satyaṁ śama damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñāna . . . (BG 18.42). Jñāna, you can have knowledge simply by hearing, not by reading books.
Indian man: Yes, by reading and writing all these things. pehle kya tha us zamane mei guru baitha hai, shishya baitha jayega, guru ne bol diya aur shishya ne... kiya. isiliye usko shruti bolte hain,, shruti sunane se usko aa gaya. in the earlier days it was that the master is sitting, and the disciple will sit, the master speaks and disciple grasps attentively. that is why it is called speech, just by hearing he got it (laughs) By hearing, knowledge by hearing
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I gave him Rāja-vidyā, which that Mrs. Dutt . . . you know that editor of that government paper? So I just wanted him to have a final look, grammatical. ye sab guruji ke kripa hai. These are all by the mercy of Guru. Everything . . . books.)
Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What are these beads?
Prabhupāda: I do not know. It was lying here, so I have packed.
Hari-śauri: Oh. Have they been chanted or anything?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Indian man) Have you seen the Chinese Gītā?
Prabhupāda: I do not know what for it was taken here.
Hari-śauri: I don't know where they came from.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ... ka kehna hai ki... ... he says that... Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, French. (break)
Prabhupāda: They take it trifle. Husband and wife who are fighting, dampate kalahe caiva bambharambhe laghu kriya. If there is fight between husband and . . . it will be . . . the show will be very big, and the result will be nil. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. "Never come to me! I shall not see your face! If you come, I shall kill you!" So on, so on. Then next moment they are talking. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya. These are taken very lightly, no seriously. Now they are going . . . nowadays, in the court case, fifty percent of cases are divorce in India.
Hari-śauri: Same in the West.
Prabhupāda: And that is also younger age, no old. Old age, they are never. There is no such case. Only younger generation, within thirties, twenties to thirties, they are fighting.
Hari-śauri: Even in the West, the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't allow divorce. The Church of England was started on that because Henry VIII didn't like his wife, and he wanted to divorce, and the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't let him. So then he did do, so they excommunicated him. So then he started his own church and made up his own laws. Otherwise, now there's a big push in Italy for divorce and everything, but even in the last ten years there's been no divorce. They don't allow it. And chastity of the woman was still very greatly appreciated too. 'Cause now in the last . . .
Prabhupāda: Woman infidel, they are stoned among the Muhammadans. Christian also. "You have done . . ." Woman proved unchaste, she was punished. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: The public would stone and kill. You know that punishment? Stoning?
Hari-śauri: Stoning, yes. It's mentioned a lot in early Christian times. They used to stone.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will throw a stone. Very torturous death, stoning.
Hari-śauri: I remember my auntie's mother. She was Italian, and she used to wear black all the time. Just like the widows here, they wear white, so she was wearing black. She was a widow. So all the widows, even I saw some young women . . .
Prabhupāda: Here also, in Gujarat, they wear black, black sāri.
Hari-śauri: Yes, right. And they wear black, and they don't dress attractively at all. And there's no question of marrying again.
Prabhupāda: And Russia also, respectable widows, they used to live in widow's home. They would never marry.
Hari-śauri: And they would wear black too.
Prabhupāda: I have seen that house when I was in Moscow. That was one of the . . . what is called? They go to see, especially tourists.
Hari-śauri: Red Square?
Prabhupāda: Red Square. No, I mean to say what is that called when they go to see specially something? Foreign men come.
Prabhupāda: That. Sightseeing. So anyway, they took us to a house.
Hari-śauri: Oh, you went on a sightseeing tour.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes that, "Here, respectable widows." In Russia, after being widow, they used to live along with other respectable widows. They would never marry. Widow house. Live with queens and other respectable ladies. This was . . .
Hari-śauri: Now I think about seven or eight marriages out of every ten in Russia end up in divorce.
Hari-śauri: Seven out of every ten marriages in Russia end up in divorce.
Prabhupāda: (pause) So we shall go?
Hari-śauri: I just have to finish . . . (break) (end)