761212 - Conversation - Hyderabad
Prabhupāda: So explain the situation to them.
Mahāṁśa: What happened a couple of times before over here was that some devotees became very passionate, mistreated a few village people over here, these laborers. And at that time many of the village people, from the villages, they came and they were protesting, and they made a big scene about it. One of them was Caraṇāravinda, who created a very . . .
Prabhupāda: No, Caraṇāravinda is eccentric.
Devotee: Too much.
Mahāṁśa: And then there was Advaitācārya also. So there was very delicate situation, because these people, they . . . it may be a very little thing, you know, little thing, which does not need much propaganda or anything like that, but the village people made it very big, and all the village people came . . .
Prabhupāda: Naturally they do that.
Mahāṁśa: They do that. They start . . . because they have no other engagement. A little thing to excite them, then they want to become excited.
Prabhupāda: In Bengal it is called tilake tāla. Tāla, a palm fruit, it is big, and tila, is the sesame. You know sesame seeds?
Prabhupāda: Sesame, yes. That is very small. So these seeds, sesame seed, is called tila. Tila lava, and they make it tāla. Instead of tila, it becomes tāla, and then big mess. Tilake tāla. The fact was tila, but they called it tāla.
Mahāṁśa: So that was happening. Then the other thing is that these people, they are very innocent people, and they are very superstitious also. So when they see foreigners, they immediately become a little afraid. And there is some kind of a complex that comes on them and it makes it very difficult for the foreigners to communicate with these people. This is what I have seen happening. It is very difficult to commu . . . now this is what I have experienced since last two, three days also. When Tejiyas was trying to get this garden around here done, but the laborers could not get the message across. They were doing something else, and then the blame was coming on me. I never instructed them at all for doing anything. I never took them away from the work at all. I was amazed and I was surprised to hear that I was accused of taking away the laborers from Tejiyas and put them on some other work which I had no concern at all. So this is what was troubling me today when I was thinking that, "How is it that there was this misunderstanding which has caused anxiety in so many devotees?" So this communication gap is going to be a problem which has to be solved. And for that . . .
Prabhupāda: Oh, this is the explanation of the situation? You . . .?
Haṁsadūta: You experienced.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how to adjust these things now? Do it.
Mahāṁśa: What I would suggest, Prabhupāda, is that I could stay here, and whatever work we have to do, we sit together in the morning or in the night and we decide, "Tomorrow we have to do so much. We need so much labor for vegetables. We need so much labor for this, this." We make up a whole schedule of work for the next day. And in the morning laborers come and Tejiyas, who has experience in agriculture, he can show how this has to be done, how that . . .
Prabhupāda: And he can speak Telugu also.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. And I can be there to see that there is proper communication. And then after ten o'clock, because laborers start work early morning, so at ten o'clock, then I can go to Hyderabad and do official work for the day, seeing the government people and things like that.
Prabhupāda: So what do you think? Eh?
Haṁsadūta: That's good.
Prabhupāda: That is all right?
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. Do it like that.
Tejiyas: We should meet not late in the evening; in the afternoon, so that the . . . if we need more laborers, they have to be informed previously. We can't inform them in the morning. We have to inform them the previous day. In the evening someone has to go to their village or whatever and tell them how many people we need, because each day is going to be a little different. As soon as we get the water, we're going to need many, many laborers.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. That's how it would be, if we could get permanent laborers. That's another thing I experienced, that when these village laborers come, they come at nine o'clock, nine-thirty, they work at their own speed and then, at five-thirty, they see the sun. I was amazed how they find the exact time, but they do it by the sun's movements. Exactly at five-thirty they will stop their work and go. But I have seen our laborers who stay here on our land, they work from five-thirty in the morning and they work all day, all the way to the night.
Tejiyas: There are some people here from the local village. They are working also nicely.
Tejiyas: I think that Ānandamaya, he is . . .
Prabhupāda: So this is good idea. In the evening you sit together, make program and execute it.
Tejiyas: In the morning.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Haṁsadūta: There's one more point that Tejiyas made. That's about the outside workers, he was saying, from Kerala.
Tejiyas: We should also be careful because . . . about enmity also. Because I've lived in the villagers' houses for two years, and I've seen in different cases where if an outsider is there. These Kerala people, they are also considered outsiders. These villagers, they regard them as being different. So they are actually even getting more requisites than the local people. We should try and encourage the local people in working. They may not in the beginning work so hard, but we should encourage them that this is their project.
Mahāṁśa: Local people will always be working because we will never have a staff to be enough for all our work. Like, we may have twenty, thirty families staying here, and I have seen that the people who are staying in these villages, they will not come and stay over here, because they are staying just around here; they have their own house. They will come and work here, they will participate and everything, but they won't come and stay here. They have their houses outside here. But the people from different villages, a little away, who have no home, who are helpless, they will come and stay and they will be very loyal. If we give them food and we give them clothing, they will be very loyal to us. They will become like our full supporters.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Naturally. Naturally.
Mahāṁśa: There is two men here who are like that because they have no home. They were staying on the street and they were working on the construction. So I said: "Come here." And then we gave them food . . .
Tejiyas: That Mobhu?
Mahāṁśa: Mebub Shah. He's a Muslim, but he's so loyal. He's the best man. And then Puru and Hanuman too. These three people, they are very loyal and they are trustworthy. These people in the villages, they tend . . . because they have their home there, so sometimes they want something for their home, so they will steal. And if some other village man steals, he will not stop him. He will say: "All right," because if he stops him, then in his village there will be trouble for him. See? So he will encourage his other villagers to steal. But these men, if they see some villagers stealing, they will stop him. This has happened.
Prabhupāda: This is natural. So how to deal with this?
Mahāṁśa: So we have both. We can get outsiders to come and stay here who we can give prasādam, make them chant and give them mahā-prasādam. They love it. In the morning . . . we used to give them a little mahā-prasādam in the morning. They used to like it very much. Like that, we gain their confidence.
Prabhupāda: We shall like that they will come here and stay and remain our twenty-four hours' son. That is very good also.
Mahāṁśa: The only thing is that in the beginning, because they do not know us very well, they will demand some salary. I told you previously that now I am paying them hundred rupees and 125 rupees for family.
Prabhupāda: So why 125? Hundred rupees sufficient. If they are eating and we are giving shelter, then a hundred rupees sufficient.
Mahāṁśa: Hundred rupees . . . if they have a family, then his wife works also and then his children who are grown up, they all work. Everyone works.
Prabhupāda: So they'll also work. So that you have to decide. Manage so that there is no misunderstanding. Simply management required. So you . . . the best thing is that you sit together . . .
Tejiyas: Without fail we have to meet every evening. There shouldn't be any . . . without fail, every evening we should meet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be all right.
Tejiyas: There shouldn't be many interruptions. Otherwise then it becomes a botheration.
Haṁsadūta: One question I have, Prabhupāda. Yesterday, day before yesterday, we were discussing about the prasāda cooking.
Prabhupāda: So if they bring one nice cook . . .
Haṁsadūta: Yes, well, this evening I was just over there, and I noticed some of the carpenters are cooking, and I don't know who the other people are.
Mahāṁśa: They're not cooking for the feast. They're cooking their own thing.
Haṁsadūta: No, no, no. They were cutting up our vegetables which are going to be cooked and served to the public.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, right over there by the fire.
Prabhupāda: No uninitiated person should cook. Brāhmaṇa cook.
Mahāṁśa: What about professional cooks?
Prabhupāda: Real brāhmaṇa.
Mahāṁśa: Professional cooks?
Prabhupāda: Profes . . .? They are brāhmaṇas.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, but they . . . even though they are brāhmaṇas, they have this habit of smoking, and if we try to find a professional cook who doesn't smoke, it is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. As far as possible, our men should cook, a professional man who is in good habit, who has promised that they will not do this smoking. We have to manage somehow.
Mahāṁśa: As far as our devotees cooking, it's practically impossible. We have tried so hard. They just can't do it. Yesterday two of the boys tried to help, and the rice was not cooked because it was not done. And he burned his leg. The water fell on his leg, and he couldn't handle the pots properly and he got . . . now the poor boy, he is suffering. He's got a wounded leg, one of the German boys, the one with long hair. So our devotees, they are not . . . this boy, Bengali boy, Dilid, he's good. He can do it but he needs at least four or five men to help.
Tejiyas: He was a professional cook, but he's not . . . he can't do it himself. He needs too much . . .
Mahāṁśa: He needs at least four people to help. It's a big cooking, so it's also very difficult for one man to do, and nobody wants to help the cooking because it's so hot, the smoke goes in the eyes and it's very troublesome. So nobody wants to help in the cooking, devotees.
Prabhupāda: Not willing. They are not willing.
Mahāṁśa: They're not willing to help in the kitchen because it is very hot, very hard, the eyes get burned, things like that. So this one Bengali boy, he's a very good cook. He can do it very nicely but he wants help. And if no one helps, then he refuses to cook. And if you press him, then he runs away. Yesterday he tried to run away four times because we were trying to press him to do the cooking.
Prabhupāda: No, no, cooking alone, it is not possible. So that you have to do. Find out some men. Cooperate. Otherwise how it is possible?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, therefore I'm asking you about hired people, whether hired people are good. In my experience . . .
Prabhupāda: So if they are . . . if our men not available, then you must hire, hire people. But not these carpenters or like that.
Mahāṁśa: No, we should get professional cooks who are really good, like this man who cooked today.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And this man is coming. He can bring.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, he himself will come. But he will have the habit of smoking, and I think we can at the most regulate his smoking, "If you want to smoke, you go somewhere far away and smoke, and before you start cooking you must wash yourself, have a bath, and then do the cooking."
Prabhupāda: Yes. What can be done? Ne māmā che kānā māmā: "If there is no uncle, one blind uncle is all right." So the matter is now clear. You do it and develop it.
Jagadīśa: There is one confusion in my mind, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Mahāṁśa said that the local villagers will not be inclined to come here and live because they are living just outside. But my impression was, from hearing you speak, was that everyone, whether they're living just outside or a long distance outside, they are suffering from material existence. They're having to struggle for existence. They're being taxed by the government. There's so many problems to maintain themself. And every living being in the material world is struggling to maintain himself. But if we offer them a house here and some work and we give them all food, clothing, and . . .
Prabhupāda: That is our aim.
Jagadīśa: That's our aim.
Prabhupāda: That is our aim. So you can engage some men to cut the hill for blocks and gradually develop house.
Tejiyas: These Badapur, they are good men.
Prabhupāda: Like this room, yes. And as far as possible, induce them to come and live here.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. Yes, that can be done. But family attachment . . . you see, these people, they have also family attachment, just like karmīs. So they are not so willing to . . . because their whole family . . . the whole village is like one family. It's like one family. They are all related to each other. And they can stay. They stay. Many of them stay here overnight.
Prabhupāda: Naturally everyone wants to stay at his own place. "Home, sweet home." "There is no place like home." That's a fact. That is psychology. They will like to stay there. But if they have got facility to live here with family, they may come.
Mahāṁśa: I was thinking we can make their house just like our house. If they are living right on our border, we can go to their house, tell them how to make an altar and make them live like how we are living. Let them stay there but let them live a good Kṛṣṇa conscious life.
Prabhupāda: They'll come gradually, not immediately. Immediately, the psychology is, they have got attachment for their house. It may be worse house, but still, their attachment . . . that is natural. Long, long ago, when I was child practically, I went with my father in the village. So one man from the village was serving us. So my father, "This boy is nice. So why not take him to Calcutta?" So one day he was absent. It was dropping and . . . so I went in the interior of the village and I saw that his house was broken, there was no roof, and rain was falling and he was sitting, covering with a cloth. Then I told him that, "Why not come with us in Calcutta? We shall give you nice place, nice food." So his answer was, "Nā bābu ghar chere jabo nā" (chuckles), "Bābujī, I cannot go out of my home." That was his home. (laughter) This is my practical exp . . . he was sitting idly and it is dropping, and he could not come to serve. Still, that is his home, and he cannot leave home, that "Bābu ghar chere jabo nā." That is psychology. It may be very worse condition; still, nobody wants to give up "Home, sweet home." That is natural psychology. So you have to manage. You see that why they, these Delhi passenger clerks . . . this morning I was telling that son was asking mother, "Who is this man?" His father, and he had never seen. "You have seen father." No, rather, he had no chance to see father because when the father comes back from the office it is night, ten o'clock or more than that. That time the son is sleeping. And again he has to go early in the morning. That time also, son is sleeping. So he did not know. So one Sunday, when he's grown up, he is asking his mother, "Who is this man?" "So this man . . ." Not only in India—everywhere. I have seen in New York from the other island? What is that?
Haṁsadūta: Long Island.
Haṁsadūta: Long Island.
Prabhupāda: Long Island. They are coming two hours in the ferry, three hours in the bus. They are going to the office. Eight hours there. Then five hours and eight hours, thirteen hours, again five hours. Then thirteen and . . . eighteen hours. And for six hours they have got home. "Home, sweet home."
Mahāṁśa: I knew people coming from Poona to Bombay to work.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Mahāṁśa: All the way from Poona.
Devotee: One and the same thing.
Prabhupāda: The home attachment is so great. These Delhi passengers, they are coming, hanging, and there are so many accidents daily. And few hours he will live with wife. That is his home. And whole other, out of twenty-four hours, seventeen hours are outside, and maybe seven hours at home. But still, he'll come home. The home attachment is very big. Therefore we have to create attachment for this hari-saṅkīrtana. If you create that attachment, then they will give up home attachment, try life, to live here. Tathāsakti. You have to train them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in such a way. Then:
- ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-
- saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
- tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt
- tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ
- (CC Madhya 23.14-15)
Tathāsakti. Then they will be attached here. Spiritually if you enlighten them, then they'll be attached. They'll voluntarily say they are accepting here. The chanting, chanting, then . . . this is the beginning that, "You chant and take prasādam." Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Gradually the heart will be cleansed, and gradually they will be elevated to the platform of āsakti. Then they will not want money, they will not want . . . then they will live here, work, just you are doing. That stage, that requires little advancement. Therefore I say this kīrtana program must be continued. Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. As you make the heart cleansed, they become more and more advanced. And then this stage of āsakti that, "This is . . . we shall live here." Just like we have given up our hearth and home and wife and children. We have given up that attachment. This attachment, practical. That is . . . you cannot expect immediately. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When one gets better attachment, then they can give up this nasty attachment. Therefore we have to continue this saṅkīrtana. This is the psychology. But there is very great prospect to develop this place, and you have got experience. If you can develop, it will be very nice example. Once successful here, we can introduce this program. And India will be easier because they are by nature inclined to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be easier. The kīrtana must be there. Otherwise, why we have to take so much responsibility?
Tejiyas: Last night it was very hard. Again, no one was coming to the kīrtana.
Tejiyas: These persons who are staying here in the garb of devotees, if they don't come . . .
Mahāṁśa: Devotees. No one would come.
Tejiyas: It was a great struggle. Again Jagadīśa and I and Mūrti, we were alone there, and we had to go and get people, and again they wouldn't come.
Prabhupāda: So what is the use?
Tejiyas: This Kṛṣṇan wouldn't come, and this other boy never comes. They should be made to leave. Otherwise they must follow the program. Kīrtana is so nice. All day we may be doing something. The only relief we get, from kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: No, without kīrtana, it is . . .
Mahāṁśa: Refreshes you completely.
Prabhupāda: If you stop kīrtana, then it is ordinary.
Tejiyas: And these people are very enthusiastic for kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: So our men should be, those who are here, they must be very enthusiastic. And the paṇḍāl, what is this play paṇḍāl? This paṇḍāl? It is very small. Make a big paṇḍāl.
Mahāṁśa: But if you want every day, we should buy one.
Prabhupāda: Buy one.
Mahāṁśa: Good one.
Mahāṁśa: Make it over there, permanent place. With permanent speakers, permanent lights and . . .
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes.
Tejiyas: We should have every night.
Mahāṁśa: Prabhupāda wants us to continue every day kīrtana and prasādam.
Prabhupāda: So do this and purchase. What is the price?
Mahāṁśa: I'll find out tomorrow.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it nicely, enthusiastically. Everything will be success. So any other question to discuss?
Haṁsadūta: I don't know if this is the time, but I think this project should have a separate account.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. It will have an account in the name of the Trust. The Venkatesh . . . I mean ISKCON Venkateshwara Trust. So as soon as we register tomorrow, day after tomorrow we'll open an account in that name. With how many signees?
Prabhupāda: Make three, you three.
Prabhupāda: Out of three, two. Out of three, any two will do. That's all.
Mahāṁśa: And amount which will be given from Your Divine Grace will be a loan towards the Trust, which will be paid back later on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyāpur account you take. I ask them to transfer to this account. And when you want to pay . . .
Mahāṁśa: Yes, then they transfer
Prabhupāda: That's all. That will be . . . do that. So open account.
Haṁsadūta: And also that lakh of rupees which I gave him last year.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his.
Haṁsadūta: The temple should pay it.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, that one lakh rupees I will pay from the four and a half lakhs. You told me to put it everything into your account. So should I put the four and a half lakhs into your account, or should I put one lakh in this account and then three and a half . . .
Prabhupāda: Anyway, give him. That's all.
Mahāṁśa: Anyway. Okay.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise give me, and I give him.
Haṁsadūta: It was meant for here. See, we gave it from Germany for the project.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, that is understood.
Tejiyas: So that can go into this one.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. It can go directly into this account.
Prabhupāda: So immediately open account, and whatever minimum you want, I will give you. That's all. And three signatories. Out of three, two. Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, if we're going to have a permanent paṇḍāl for visitors, why don't we build some simple kīrtana hall where the people can also take prasādam, something like they built in Māyāpur but not . . .
Prabhupāda: Do it . . . do it gradually. For the time being have a paṇḍāl. Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, for the time being. That could be used for kīrtana and prasādam.
Mahāṁśa: That you told me just now, at that site where we have the permanent temple.
Prabhupāda: That, tomorrow morning we shall see and make a . . .
Mahāṁśa: A design.
Haṁsadūta: One more question. When . . . the first time you were here two years ago, you suggested that we should have Gaura-Nitāi Deity immediately.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nṛsiṁha-deva, Gaura-Nitāi and Jagannātha.
Haṁsadūta: Right here?
Haṁsadūta: Shall we begin right here? We have this little place . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Haṁsadūta: I have a set of Gaura-Nitāis with me from the bus, but They're smaller.
Prabhupāda: So immediately install. Immediately. Yes. And have regular kīrtana and ārati. Deity must be there. That will be our engagement. That's all right. Enthusiasm. Real thing is enthusiasm, utsāhān. Dhairya, patience. And . . .
Prabhupāda: Determination: "Yes, I must do it." And here, if you make determination, everything is there. Everything is there. Such a vast land, and capital Kṛṣṇa will give. Land, labor. Labor is there. So simply organization required, that's all. Then everything is all right. Make use the production. First of all eat yourself as much as you . . . and then trade. Get money. People will be surprised at the organization. And there are twenty thousand men all round?
Mahāṁśa: No, that is . . . just in very near villages there's about eight thousand.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So if you can make one thousand person interested, then you'll be successful. So you can engage some worker for cutting the rocks.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. Tomorrow I am arranging.
Tejiyas: In this Dabilpur there's some very good workers. I saw in the village. They have so many places where there are rocks stacked up. And they have many craftsmen in that Dabilpur. That's the main village in this area. They have them there, just near Mr . . . that Anjaya Reddy's house.
Prabhupāda: This house, the blocks are prepared, you make huts and engage some men to make that tile.
Mahāṁśa: Tiles. Round tiles.
Jagadīśa: The roof tiles.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, just like the ones which are in the temple.
Prabhupāda: Then locally you get everything. You haven't got to get from outside. Eh?
Jagadīśa: Clay roof tiles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very nice, very strong and very comfortable and simple. (sounds of children) So the villagers have come?
Mahāṁśa: Yes, it sounds like it.
Tejiyas: Their children. By themselves they were doing this kīrtana.
Jagadīśa: Is somebody leading kīrtana now?
Tejiyas: The children.
Jagadīśa: We should go.
Mahāṁśa: Let's go.
Prabhupāda: Sit down daily and make next program. Then it will be success.
Mahāṁśa: Jaya Prabhupāda.
(devotees offer obeisances) (end)