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761209 - Conversation - Hyderabad

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

761209R1-HYDERABAD - December 09, 1976 - 24.17 Minutes

(Preparation for Gita Pratisthana)

Prabhupāda: . . . jail, it is not due to overpopulation. It is due to overcriminality. Similarly, whenever there is scarcity of supply or scarcity of food, it is not due to overpopulation. It is due to overcriminality or over-sinful activities. Due to over-sinful activities, not overpopulation. It is a bogus theory. That is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). Those who are devils, who are demons . . .

Jagadīśa: What was that verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Tān aham.

Jagadīśa: Tān.

Prabhupāda: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be suffering. You cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?

Jagadīśa: Their answer or my answer?

Prabhupāda: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot use it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). You are falsely thinking that you are independent. A slight deviation from the laws of nature will put you into difficulty. Immediately there are. You can close this door. (break) . . . population. In any case, one can be punished when the nature's supply is restricted. (break)

Jagadīśa: It's from the Third Chapter.

yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo
mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ
bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā
ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt
(BG 3.13)

Prabhupāda: So in order to release ourself from the sinful . . . reaction of sinful activity, we must perform yajña. And in this age the easiest process of yajña is saṅkīrtana-yajña. (break) So what are the problem?

Jagadīśa: Under "problems" are . . . There are some general problems, such as taxes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jagadīśa: Taxes. Taxation.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, taxation. So that is . . . You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this . . . there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment. Because the government is your government, because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation. (break)

Jagadīśa: Other problems?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jagadīśa: Other problems?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagadīśa: Race relations.

Prabhupāda: Race relations? That is also ignorance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is original father. Where is the question of race? You are all brothers.

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: So, all problems solved?

Jagadīśa: As far as I'm concerned.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jagadīśa: I can't think of any more major problems. I remember from . . .

Prabhupāda: Problem . . . As long as you have got this material body you'll have problem.

Jagadīśa: One after another.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the best solution is to go back home, back to Godhead.

Jagadīśa: We have to convince them that they have problems, because they think that they're enjoying.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. Therefore they require education.

Jagadīśa: They don't know of the real standard of enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: How they can know? There is no understanding. Mūḍha.

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: To solve all these problems, therefore, there must be a class of men, brāhmaṇas. Not a class; a section of people must become brāhmaṇas. And all other sections should consult them and live as kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, śūdras.


Prabhupāda: Then? It is finished now? No.

Jagadīśa: Well, we've solved all the problems.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jagadīśa: We've solved all the problems. Now we want to convince this Vinoba Bhave to support us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So can you see what is the position, my quarters?

Hari-śauri: Well, Mūrti said your side is fit for moving into. But if they have . . . See, Bhogilal Patel is not here yet, so I thought if we wait at least till tomorrow, if you want, then that will give them the chance to get a few more doors on, and then, if Bhogilal comes tomorrow, then we can move in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Hari-śauri: See, they have all the wood now for the doors, and they need one more day and then all the doors will be fitted in the whole house.

Prabhupāda: So do that tomorrow.

Hari-śauri: And that will be a lot safer too. Security reasons, it will be a lot better.

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow morning we can go.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

(break) . . . śuddhyed sattva, purify your existence. (end).