760903 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760903G1-VRNDAVAN - September 03, 1976 - 32.40 Minutes


(Garden Conversation)



Prabhupāda: ...with some Indian wife they were called Eurasian, and Englishman marrying Indian wife, they were called Anglo-Indian. There was a big Anglo-Indian community, and they were given good facilities by the Britishers for government jobs, railways. In railway, almost cent percent. The driver, the guard, the ticket inspector, all—means, semi-important jobs—they were all given to these Anglo-Indians. Because they were not very much educated. And officers, they were all Britishers. Officers, secretaries. And Indians were clerks. (laughs) Indians, they were accepted as clerks only. No officers. In military, Indian Sikhs and Gurkha, especially Sikhs, they were very valiant. Still they are valiant. They were given the post of captain. Not general. General all Englishmen.

Caraṇāravindam: I have seen many Sikh soldiers. They're very big. They're very noble looking soldiers.

Prabhupāda: They're very martial race. Practically, the Britishers expanded their empire with these Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers.

Hari-śauri: The Gurkha, they're very...

Caraṇāravindam: And Nepalese soldiers.

Prabhupāda: Nepalese. They are very brave.

Hari-śauri: Yes, they're very renowned.

Prabhupāda: Sikhs are very brave. They're martial. And another martial race, Jats. They are kṣatriyas. Oh, they can fight. When Britishers possessed India they organized this military with Sikhs especially, Jats, and Gurkhas. And they expanded their empire—Burma, Ceylon, Africa, all these British Empire possessions. And not only that, they fought two big world wars with these Sikhs soldiers. They conquered over this Mesopotamia, Middle East.

Caraṇāravindam: They worked so hard. It's a pity they weren't doing it for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They like military. They want military jobs. Very kṣatriya spirit.

Caraṇāravindam: They collected so much, but they lost it because they didn't give it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, their bad policy that they wanted India for Britishers' benefit. That is not duty of the government. Government should be for the welfare of the people. Then that government will continue. But they exploited the Indian people for the benefit of their own countrymen. That is the failure. That policy was not good. Therefore they finished within two hundred years. They began their ruling 1775, like that. And 1947... Not even two hundred years.

Caraṇāravindam: And now nothing.

Prabhupāda: Now, after losing India, they have no more British Empire. Because they cannot maintain without Indian soldiers. Therefore they voluntarily left.

Caraṇāravindam: I used to see in my grandmother's house, in her front room she used to keep special...

Prabhupāda: Where? In London?

Caraṇāravindam: That was in Yorkshire, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yorkshire.

Caraṇāravindam: Yorkshire, near his birthplace.

Prabhupāda: You are also Yorkshire?

Hari-śauri: Almost. Just near—Lincoln.

Caraṇāravindam: And in her front room she had many things that Great-grandfather collected...

Prabhupāda: ...from India.

Caraṇāravindam: From India, yes. And then his son, my grandfather, he was also a soldier. He was a captain, and he was in India and in Hong Kong and China, Tensing. And he collected many things. He was also in the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: And your father?

Caraṇāravindam: He was born in Tensing. My father's family was there, where he's serving. Then he became later..., he was a commander in the Royal Navy.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was engaged in the Navy.

Caraṇāravindam: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Practically all your family is military.

Caraṇāravindam: Yes. Now he is retired. He is living in (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Your father is living? How does he like you have become Vaiṣṇava?

Caraṇāravindam: At first he would not even speak to me. Then I used to visit next door, and my mother would come to see me. And then after a while he would talk to me from the other side, and I quickly used to go and see. I would sit down. I would not preach to him. I would just be social.

Prabhupāda: After all, father and son, affection, where it will go?

Caraṇāravindam: Now he likes. He says, "This is better what you are doing than all the other things you were doing." I've not seen him now for three and a half years since I left England. They are a little sick now.

Prabhupāda: What is the age of your father?

Caraṇāravindam: Sixty-five, I think.

Prabhupāda: Grandfather died.

Caraṇāravindam: Yes. (indistinct) when I used to go in the temple there...

Prabhupāda: Grandfather was living at that time?

Caraṇāravindam: No, when I was a little boy I used to see him. We were very close. He used to take me for walks, like this, and then he died. And grandmother lived long time, and then she died. But she would not leave the family...

Prabhupāda: His grandmother is still living. Your grandfather also living?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Caraṇāravindam: A lot of the Yorkshire, they live long time. Much longer it seems than in the south. In the Midlands and Yorkshire, they would quite often live much longer.

Prabhupāda: His grandfather is of my age. I think two-three years older.

Hari-śauri: He's the same age as yourself, about eighty-one.

Prabhupāda: Here, all my disciples, they're of my grandson's age. Their father may be my sons' age, father, mother. My grandson is thirty-two years old. Granddaughter, she is also about twenty-five.

Caraṇāravindam: It seems strange. Life seems to go by so quickly. A few years ago it seems to my mind I was a little boy. Now I'm thirty-two and my father and mother are sixty-five, and they will soon leave their body, and it is all going rush, rush, rush. It will seem, a few more years' time I will look back, "Oh, when I was thirty-two and walking round."

Hari-śauri: At least we're not wasting our lives now.

Caraṇāravindam: Yes.

Prabhupāda: My granddaughter, she came to see me in Māyāpur.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So I was remembering just the other day she was child and walking, catching my hand. Now she is mother of two children. (someone walks by) Who is this?

Hari-śauri: He's the carpenter.

Prabhupāda: That man.

Caraṇāravindam: Very good fellow.

Prabhupāda: Carpenter. So it is nice. (referring to the bamboo and thatch shelter built in his garden) When there is rain I can lie down here. When it is raining, to lie down in a cottage like this is very pleasing. At least in this country. Tuk-tuk-tuk-tuk raining, not very forcibly.

Caraṇāravindam: A little shower.

Prabhupāda: Shower, yes. Oh, it is very pleasing. So this place is very nice.

Caraṇāravindam: You like this...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have got idea. You have all done nice. Nobody (laughs) got this idea. You have done nice.

Caraṇāravindam: I wanted to make you a beautiful palace.

Prabhupāda: If you can fix up a little fan, then this labor can be saved.

Caraṇāravindam: You would like electric fan or hand-pulled. Hand-pulled?

Prabhupāda: No, no, electric. A small table fan. Just like in the railway carriage. Let them fix up. Small ceiling fan.

Hari-śauri: You can get very small ones that they fasten on the front of motorcars on the inside for fanning the driver. Just a small unit.

Caraṇāravindam: I was wanting to, in the future, build you a very beautiful construction here.

Prabhupāda: No, it is all right.

Caraṇāravindam: You like this. I thought you would also...

Prabhupāda: This is made simple. It is very nice. Rather, you can... No, it is all right. There is no space. In India, on the roof, we allow to grow squash.

Caraṇāravindam: You would like some growing?

Prabhupāda: Very small.

Caraṇāravindam: I plan to grow mālatī up this side.

Prabhupāda: You grow, on the thatched roof, they grow squash.

Hari-śauri: I think they were doing that in Māyāpur. There was one big plant growing on the...

Prabhupāda: So that the family can get one squash, that is sufficient for family. Vegetable.

Caraṇāravindam: I have seen that.

Prabhupāda: People used to live formerly without any worries. Everything was so easily available, at least foodstuffs. They had no anxiety.

Caraṇāravindam: Little effort, just basic, a little work and...

Prabhupāda: They got their own paddy from the field, milk, some vegetables. Those who are fish-eaters, they have got small lake, fish. Whole family without any money. "Where I shall get money?" "How shall I eat?" These things were absent. Even the poor man.

Caraṇāravindam: Actually, I have seen that even in all these villages in Africa and India, they have no real connection to the city politics. Because if the city breaks down they could move back to... They have their cow, they have field, their vegetables...

Prabhupāda: If there is war, they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Muhammadan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen, and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves, and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight, and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown, now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced. I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." That's all. Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.

Caraṇāravindam: It was similar in old England in the knights' time.

Prabhupāda: That is the whole world history. Now they have made encumbrance.

Caraṇāravindam: It was a good system. Very effective.

Prabhupāda: Naturally, a class of men, they became soldiers. They were trained up, and...

Caraṇāravindam: Whenever I visited a village in India, people were always very friendly. No worries, like that.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Caraṇāravindam: When I visited a village in India, they're very friendly: "Sit down, take some meal." Or if I walk through a field they will pick something from a tree, some tomatoes or some vegetables, and give it to me. So friendly.

Prabhupāda: You can grow some tomatoes here. That is a very easy thing.

Caraṇāravindam: I have also some strawberry seeds and some different seeds to plant.

Prabhupāda: Tomato, squash.

Caraṇāravindam: You would like to see growing in your garden a little sabjī?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very... Cucumber. These things can be grown very easily. And zucchini. Called zucchini?

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's like a small marrow, zucchini.

Caraṇāravindam: I would like to get. I don't know...

Prabhupāda: No, there is not much place here.

Caraṇāravindam: Some things we can grow.

Prabhupāda: But this green banana, if we get that will be nice.

Caraṇāravindam: These should flower soon, these bananas. They are one year old now. Within the next six months they should give some flowers.

Prabhupāda: So it is very pleasing spot. You have done nice. I'm feeling nice.

Caraṇāravindam: I'm pleased to do this service for you.

Hari-śauri: Your pleasure is our pleasure.

Caraṇāravindam: It is your mercy. It is ecstasy to come in here and do something on the garden for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very good. I want to see lotuses growing. Then I will be happy. Nice lotuses. When I can pick a lotus and give to you, then it is nice. Then it is finished. Lilies, lotus, nice bushes, very happy inside. This grass has just been laid, and I think after two weeks it will be very first class.

Prabhupāda: Nobody should walk.

Caraṇāravindam: No. I have still this section here to finish of nice turf. And then watering twice a day.

Prabhupāda: And due to this fountain it will be very nice, green always.

Caraṇāravindam: And I will sprinkle it with gobar water. Gobar mixed with water and sprinkle. That will be good for...

Prabhupāda: Is there any good painter here?

Caraṇāravindam: What sort?

Hari-śauri: Artist?

Prabhupāda: Artist? Who is here?

Caraṇāravindam: Devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Caraṇāravindam: One new boy that just came.

Prabhupāda: So I want his service. I want to paint that picture which is published in that French Back to Godhead.

Hari-śauri: Oh. The portrait?

Prabhupāda: Not portrait. That I was beating on my... What is called? That dundubhi we call it. What do you call this? Bango? Bang?

Hari-śauri: Oh, gong?

Prabhupāda: Not gong. It is one side covered with skin.

Caraṇāravindam: Like a tambourine.

Hari-śauri: No, it's... You mean a drum...

Prabhupāda: Drum. Not two-sides. One side.

Hari-śauri: Like a tom-tom drum.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that picture is very nice. If somebody paints, it will be...

Caraṇāravindam: I wish I could make the mālatī grow faster, and the ratnavani.(?) I wish I could make it grow faster to give perfume. It is not like painting a picture. You can paint the flower and the creeper and the tree very quickly, but when you are growing it and you have the idea and no plant, it takes so many years for it to come to its finish.

Prabhupāda: And who is growing it? That is Kṛṣṇa's hand. His hand is working invisibly. Kṛṣṇa's hand is there. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10): "I am giving direction to the nature, and she is manufacturing." That's a fact.

Caraṇāravindam: And He paints wonderful flowers, with perfume.

Prabhupāda: Anything, anything. Kṛṣṇa is giving dictation, "Do like that." Intelligence is of Kṛṣṇa.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
(BG 9.10)

Caraṇāravindam: Lord Caitanya, He had the mango tree grow almost instantly with His direction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He can do that because He is Kṛṣṇa. Immediately He can do.

Caraṇāravindam: First-class mangoes.

Prabhupāda: That is His inconceivable energy. Now, by medical treatment man is made into woman and woman is made man. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes, there was that article in the Blitz the other day.

Prabhupāda: So formerly, by simply desire of very exalted person like Lord Śiva and others, they could turn a man into woman, woman into man.

Hari-śauri: I heard a story, Viśvāmitra, once he grew people from trees. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Everything is possible by Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. It is called therefore "inconceivable." You..., we cannot conceive how it is done. Our intelligence is very little. We cannot conceive. Therefore we say, "Oh, this is all mythology." Because we cannot conceive of it. Whatever we cannot conceive we take it as mythology. Nothing is mythology. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. But they cannot understand what is inconceivable. Unless it is conceivable by them, they do not accept. That is their foolishness. We can see at night worms or flies so small. Just like if you divide one grain of rice into one hundred divisions, one division—such a small fly. They are independently walking, flying. Freedom. Now just imagine how their anatomic physiology is manufactured within that small (indistinct) of life. But he's exactly doing everything like a big fly. How it is doing? Therefore I said in that, my interview.

Hari-śauri: Oh. "They can manufacture a Jumbo Jet, but they can't make a mosquito. Neither can they supply the pilot."

Prabhupāda: And the mosquito is with the pilot. They are manufacturing Jumbo 747 plane. It requires a pilot separately. But Kṛṣṇa is manufacturing an airplane, mosquito—everything complete, with pilot. This is inconceivable. You can manufacture a big aeroplane; the pilot is separate. You cannot manufacture the pilot. Kṛṣṇa is manufacturing not only the smallest aeroplane, but with a pilot. This is inconceivable.

Caraṇāravindam: Also he makes those... You wrote in the Bhāgavatam there are those giant birds that fly in space.

Prabhupāda: And there will be hundreds and thousands mosquitos, they will fly, there will be no accident.

Hari-śauri: No collisions.

Prabhupāda: No. Anywhere it will be... Not only flies. The birds, when they flock together, so there is no collision. And they very forcibly go like this, this, this, this, all together, but you won't find one accident. And this is Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. What you can do? You cannot fly hundreds of planes at a time. There will be at least three, four accidents.

Caraṇāravindam: They have great difficulty doing these air displays. Many planes flying together, these air displays, there is so much difficulty for them. And often they have accidents. Also...

Prabhupāda: Formerly I used to see three, four, more than four flies going together. Nowadays I do not see.

Caraṇāravindam: Flies.

Prabhupāda: No, aeroplanes. During wartime when they used to come to bombard, they used to come in four, five together because the enemies, they used to shot down. So if one is shot down the other will be bombing.

Caraṇāravindam: You wrote in the Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that in outer space there are those giant birds like eagle. Very, very big. Giant size. Enormous.

Prabhupāda: They go from one planet to another.

Caraṇāravindam: It is like a big plane. Bigger than jet.

Prabhupāda: And while flying they lay down eggs. And the eggs, while falling down, they become birds, by the..., what is called?

Hari-śauri: Friction?

Prabhupāda: No, no. When they, what it is called. Velocity of falling down, it becomes fomented, and then the birds come out. Just like parasites. No? Parachute?

Hari-śauri: Yes, parachute.

Prabhupāda: While falling down, it opens. (break) This is God's creation. Inconceivable. And that aeroplane, flying machine, is so perfect.

Caraṇāravindam: And it will find its own food.

Prabhupāda: There are birds who can take away the elephant for eating. Such big birds. They can carry elephant like a small rat.

Caraṇāravindam: Is such a bird the bird that was a servant of Sītā?

Prabhupāda: And monkey-eating birds I have seen in Los Angeles(?). They go very high on the top of a tree and capture a monkey, and take him high and drop him. As soon as he falls, he dies, then again comes down and eats it.

Caraṇāravindam: We need one of those birds here to capture these monkeys. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: There are so many wonderful creations. That is God's inconceivable energy. (end)