760805 - Lecture BG 15.15 - New Mayapur
(class held outside, in the evening)
Prabhupāda: So read something. (indistinct)
Hari-śauri: (indistinct) Where is Pradyumna?
Jayatīrtha: Panditjī? Haben sie ein buch? (do you have a book?)
Devotee: Pradyumna pick a verse.
Prabhupāda: You can read, anyone can read.
Hari-śauri: Get the verse and read.
Jayatīrtha: (leads devotees in chanting)
- sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
- mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
- vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
- vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham
- (BG 15.15)
(French and English synonyms read) (03:38) "I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas." (French translation read by Jayāntakṛd)
Prabhupāda: Now it is explained, purport. (break) (translated throughout by Jayāntakṛd) Knowledge given by Paramātmā from within the core of the heart is explained by the modern scientist as intuition. They do not know wherefrom the intuition is coming. And that is coming from God. Therefore it is stated mattaḥ, mattaḥ, "from Me," smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. A small cub, dog, it has not opened the eyes, but still, immediately after birth it is seeking the nipples of the mother. So wherefrom the knowledge comes? From his within. And that is from God. The other day I explained, Vedas means just like this dictaphone machine is manufactured along with one literature is also compiled, so customers, they are given the delivery of the machine as well as the literature how to use it. That is the Vedas. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that vedānta-kṛt, "I am the compiler of the Vedas." Because if He does not give the literature, then how he will use the machine? The manufacturer of the machine, he knows how to use it, what for it is, how to manipulate it. Everything is there. The Vedic knowledge means that. We have come to this material world. So just like we have purchased this machine for some enjoyment, similarly, we are fallen down to this material world for some material pleasure. So Kṛṣṇa has given, God has given, a literature. If you'll be guided by the literature, that, your propensity to enjoy this material world, will be fulfilled, at the same time you'll again be able to go back home, back to Godhead. So now you discuss this point, that why we have come to this material world, what is the purpose. These things are mentioned in the Vedas. Vedas gives you knowledge about your relationship with God. That is the first knowledge. And then, according to that relationship, if you act, then you are rightly directed, and ultimately the goal is to go back home, back to Godhead. So discuss on this point if you have anyone any doubt, any question.
Devotee: I have a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes we try to meditate on Kṛṣṇa, when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, sinful memory from our past life is coming. How is this to be understood that Kṛṣṇa says, "From Me the memory comes."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Memory comes to remind you that you were in this condition, in this condition. Whether you are to continue this condition or to make improvement, that is up to you. So if you take instruction from the Vedas then you'll understand that these conditions of life are not very pleasing. So we have to make progress in a different way. (question asked in French)
Prabhupāda: Explain? What is his question?
Bhagavān: (rephrasing the question) The question: how does our love for Kṛṣṇa somehow or other get transformed into lust?
Jayatīrtha: In contact with the material energy.
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. One has got his wife or husband, but he or she transfers the love towards somebody else, how does he look?
Jayatīrtha: Personal choice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is happening every moment. Natural love is between the husband and wife, but the wife goes somewhere and the husband goes somewhere else. Why? The basic principle is enjoyment. He or she thinks that "I shall be able to enjoy more in this way." So this misguided spirit puts him into trouble. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. He does not know the aim of life, and therefore his energy is transferred to something else misleading.
The difficulty is when a person is missing the aim of life, his energy is diverted in different misleading ways. Just like for our bodily necessities of life we require to eat, we require to sleep, we require some sense pleasure or sex pleasure, and we require some defense. So that is arranged—you eat, you sleep, you have wife or husband, enjoy, and properly defend yourself—but the business is different. Business is different means living peacefully he has to realize God, his relationship with God. That is his real business. But because people are not educated to the real business, he thinks that these four principles of bodily necessities of life, eating, sleeping, sex and defense, that is my business. Therefore he's transferring from this eating to that eating, from this sleeping to that sleeping, from this sex to that sex, from this defense to that defense. Because he has no other idea. This is the difficulty. He's thinking that sex life from this person to that person will be nice. But that is not. Sex life by the dogs, by the hogs or by the man, the same pleasure. That I have repeatedly said, that any nice, tasteful eatable, either you keep it in the golden pot or in iron pot, the taste is the same. But he, rascal, does not know. He thinks that "If I put it in the golden pot it will be more tasteful." This is going on. The sex life is the same. He's thinking in the human form of sex in a very nice apartment, so many, so many, decorated, it will change the quality of the sex between dogs and dogs. No, that will not change. The same taste. But because he has no other engagement, better engagement, therefore he's trying to improve these things, the tendency for these things. That is his trouble. He's becoming entrapped. Sometimes he's enjoying as a man, sometimes he's enjoying as a hog, sometimes he's enjoying as a dog, as a demigod, but the enjoyment is the same. But that he does not know. He has to go beyond this, transcend this enjoyment. That information he has not. That is the difficulty.
So God gives us all facility. We wanted to enjoy in a particular situation, and God gives us facility of that situation and gives also instruction, "Now you wanted." Just like one is very much addicted to eat flesh or blood. So God gives him the chance to accept the body of a tiger, and he's given all facilities, the nails, the jaws, and gives instruction, "Now you can enjoy." So He'll give us all facilities, but if you want His instruction, that what will be good for me, then He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66): "You give up this business, simply surrender unto Me. I'll take protection." So if we are intelligent we shall take His final instruction and follow it and be happy. That's all.
Jayāntakṛd: (question asked in French) The question is: Did we fall in this material world to find some highest pleasure? His question is: Did we fall in the material world to experience something which is higher?
Prabhupāda: I do not follow.
Yogeśvara: I think his question is that the husband will leave the wife because he is dissatisfied. But if our love for Kṛṣṇa originally is perfect, why should we have left?
Prabhupāda: You have left... Just like somebody is daily eating purīs and halavā, and he wants to eat puffed rice. (laughter) So that tendency is there. That is also a side of enjoyment. "I am eating daily this; let me eat this." What is the difficulty? That tendency is there. That is also enjoyment. After all, we are hankering after enjoyment, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). So different taste we desire, that "Let me taste this, let me taste that, let me taste that." So the real basic principle is enjoyment, sense enjoyment. That's all.
Jayatīrtha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you mentioned the principle of intuition, that this is coming from Kṛṣṇa. There's another principle called conscience, which means the feeling that something is right and something is wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is from Kṛṣṇa. Everything. Mattaḥ, "From Me everything is coming."
Viśvambhara: Sometimes a materialist, he's thinking he's doing good, but he's not. Is that...?
Prabhupāda: He does not know what is good. He wants to do something, but he does not know what is good. The good is said by Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). That is good. Or everything bad. Whatever he does, everything bad. That's all. Just like this child: he wants to do so many things. He does not know what is good, what is bad. But the good thing is if he works according to the direction of his father, then it is good. And otherwise, whatever he'll do, that is childish, that's all. It is neither good nor bad, it is childish.
Jayāntakṛd: (translating question from devotee) The question is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday you told to that gentleman that the scientists, they thought that they have been on the moon planet, but does that actually mean they went to another planet than the moon planet?
Prabhupāda: They might have gone to hell. I do not know. (laughter) We have no interest in such things. What profit will be there? Who is asking this question?
Hari-śauri: This boy from Africa.
Prabhupāda: So what gain we'll get? You are here in this France and... (laughter) Don't be, I mean to say, subject to this unnecessary... What is the profit? Be practical man. What is the profit there? Suppose they have gone to hell or moon, but what is the profit? Why don't you study practically? What profit do we get? If, after spending millions of dollars, if you have brought some sand, the sand is available so much here. (laughter) So what is the profit? Just like the moon planet is there in such a vast sky. That is one corner, an insignificant corner it is occupying. So even if you go there, then what about the vast sky? What can you do? So be practical. What is the use of wasting time in that way? But as we say, that you can go to the moon planet. For that you have to prepare in a different way. Not that you get a small tricycle and go to the moon. (laughter) That is foolishness. So in our childhood also we were imagining, "I have got this tricycle. I shall go to Europe, I shall go to the West, or..." It is like that.
Devotee: You said that Kṛṣṇa speaking through intuition. Is it therefore possible to follow Kṛṣṇa by following the intuition?
Prabhupāda: There are two kinds of following. You want to do something by your whim, and you could not fulfill that whim in one life. So Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives opportunity to fulfill that desire in the next life and gives you, "Now you wanted like this. Here is the opportunity, do it." But that is not good for you. You wanted it, so Kṛṣṇa gives you the opportunity. The best thing would be that what Kṛṣṇa says, you do that; then you'll be happy. Otherwise, you'll have to go life after life and fulfill your whims and desires. Kṛṣṇa will give you opportunity, but that will not solve your problems.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda mentioned that everyone is looking for pleasure. So when one comes into devotional service, how is it possible to know if one is actually looking for his own pleasure or really in search of God?
Prabhupāda: So long you'll seek your own pleasure, you'll suffer. And when you'll seek Kṛṣṇa's pleasure, you'll enjoy. The example is given: Just like you catch up some sweetmeat, the fingers. If the fingers say, "We shall enjoy it," you spoil it. But if the fingers put it to Kṛṣṇa, then you'll enjoy it. Unless you know this art: that we cannot enjoy independently, that is not possible. If we enjoy through Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, then we'll be happy. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness art. Directly you cannot enjoy. That is not possible. They are making this mistake. They want to satisfy their senses directly. That is not possible. That is spoiling your life. And if you satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, then through Kṛṣṇa you satisfy yourself. This is the technique. The same analogy, that the fingers directly cannot enjoy the sweetball, but when the sweetball is put into the stomach, these five fingers enjoy, also these five fingers enjoy. These five fingers, whole body will enjoy.
Ādiśekhara: When someone reads your books, we can see that someone will take a book and someone will not take a book. So does Kṛṣṇa give beneficial instruction to someone and not to someone else—intuition in the heart to take or not to take the book?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If one has to suffer more, Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, now you enjoy. Why you read that?" (laughter) Better go to the restaurant and spend money for that.
Indradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Jayāntakṛd: I have to translate. (translates)
Indradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you've mentioned several times in recent lectures that a pure devotee can see Kṛṣṇa everywhere, that He's never out of your vision, and at the same time in Śikṣāṣṭaka prayers Lord Caitanya explains that "Govinda, I am feeling Your separation to be twelve years or more. I'm feeling the world vacant in His absence." Could you explain this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's playing how you can become mad without seeing Kṛṣṇa. That is higher stage. It cannot be explained, but when you gradually go higher and higher you'll understand.
Jayāntakṛd: (translating question from devotee) The question is: We have all faith in you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and if we want to follow your instructions, we want to follow your instructions word by word. But sometime we can find some difficulty. In a case of difficulty, what should we do?
Prabhupāda: You should be patient. Utsāhān dhairyāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). Dhairya means patience. Just like a girl is married and she wants a son. You cannot expect today is marriage, and tomorrow is child. That is not possible. You have to wait.
Harikeśa: (explaining) Like a woman gets married, and the next day she wants to have a son. You cannot expect that today you get married and tomorrow you have a son.
Devotee: Yesterday you have said that Kṛṣṇa says that He is the taste in water. In the Koran it is also said that Allah you can taste in the taste in water. We also see Kṛṣṇa is in temple. Does this mean also Allah is in the temple? And why are all these religions so different? Because essentially they are all the same.
Prabhupāda: You make difference, we don't make. We allow everyone. But you think you are Muhammadan, "We shall not go." That is your discrimination. We say "Come everyone." You make discrimination. We don't make.
English Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The defense propensity is there in all the living entities. Also in karmis, and also it manifest in devotees sometimes. And the devotees are all trying to serve your lotus feet. But sometimes a devotee may have a bicycle, and two devotees want to use the bicycle—one to go to Scotland and the other to go to England to distribute your books. But because of their imperfection they disagree who should use the bicycle to go and preach. Now, how would they come to some conclusion?
Hari-śauri: (rephrasing the question) Sometimes there's some discrepancy, two parties, they may both want to serve you, but they have different ways, different ideas how to execute the same order, so there may be some argument.
Prabhupāda: Service means you must take order from the master. That is service. Otherwise it is mental concoction. Actually, the servant requests, "How can I serve you?" So when the master orders, "You serve me like this," then you do that. That is service. And if you manufacture your service, that is not service; that is your sense gratification. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. You have to see how he is pleased. Now if he wants a glass of water and if you bring a nice glass of milk, you can say, "Milk is better than water. You take it." That is not service. He wants water, you give him water. Don't manufacture better thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna to fight, and he became a nonviolent saint, "No, Kṛṣṇa, I'll not fight." That is disobedience. Kṛṣṇa says fight, you must fight. Don't bring philosophy of nonviolence. That is nonsense. What He says, do it. That is service. That he did later on. Sometimes they misunderstand Bhagavad-gītā, that Arjuna is not willing to fight and Kṛṣṇa is inducing him to fight. They misunderstand that Arjuna is better than Kṛṣṇa. But that's not the fact. What Kṛṣṇa says, we have to execute that. We should not manufacture our own ideas. That is not service.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses and not our own senses, that is the principle of renunciation. How can one develop and cultivate renunciation?
Prabhupāda: Renunciation means you must first stop your sense gratification. That is renunciation. If you engage in your sense gratification, how you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses? So you have to stop this nonsense sense gratification, you have to adopt the real sense gratification. That is renunciation. Renunciation does not mean you become idle. Renunciation means you have to stop nonsense things and then begin real thing. That is renunciation. The Māyāvādī philosophy is "Stop everything." Stop everything, what is the gain? Stop nonsense; do something sensible. That is wanted. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66): "Give up everything." Does He say, "And then stop"? No. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, "Come here." That is wanted. Just like the dictaphone. Stop recording cinema songs; record kṛṣṇa-kathā, discussion of Kṛṣṇa. That is utilization properly. So everything has got utility. When it is used for Kṛṣṇa, that is proper utility. When it is used for other purpose, that is māyā.
Adiśekhāra: If we don't finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life, how we come in contact with the guru in next life?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dān dilo jei janme janme prabhu sei. One who has opened the eyes, he'll remain my master life after life.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!
Umāpati: (rephrasing question from devotee) The question was that Kṛṣṇa had said that He would not take part in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, but later on He did. So He had actually changed His word. So does the devotee also sometimes do that—say one thing but later on change his mind?
Prabhupāda: You are not Kṛṣṇa. (laughing) You are servant of Kṛṣṇa. Don't try to imitate the master. That is folly. You are servant, you remain always servant. Don't try to imitate the master. Kṛṣṇa has lifted the hill. Can you do that (laughing) by imitation? Don't try to imitate. Follow His instruction. That is wanted. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. He is God.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Why God gave to man free will if He knew the man would fall down in the material world?
Prabhupāda: If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must be, must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone. That is not life.
Jayāntakṛd: (rephrasing a question) If the artistic inspiration, like the intuition, is also coming from Paramātmā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you want to become something, Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. But that will not be good for you. But you go on manufacturing ideas, Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam (BG 15.15), how to... Just like a scientist is trying to manufacture something. Kṛṣṇa is giving intelligence, "All right, do like that, do like that, do like that."
Viśvambhara: Why is it sometimes if we are sincerely trying to serve Kṛṣṇa we still make mistakes? We make in our service some mistakes.
Prabhupāda: You must always remember that service means by the order of the master. So if you should always be ready to take order from the master, there will be no mistake.
Devotee: So that would mean that all mistakes come from the false ego?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you disobey the order of master, that is mistake.
Devotee: Sometimes in our practical dealings we have to make a decision, and there is no possibility to refer to our authority. Shall we then try to understand what Kṛṣṇa wants us to do?
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa will give you. That is intuition. If you are actually sincere, the correct intuition will come. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti (BG 10.10). If it is for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, then He'll give you intelligence, "You do like this."
Devotee: There is a question I have wanted to ask for many years now. The Vedic culture and the Islamic culture have many similarities.
Prabhupāda: So take Islamic culture. Just finish. If you are interest in Islamic culture, take it to it. Just finish. What is the use of comparing, this and that? Why you waste your time? You like Islamic culture, you take it. There is no question of...
Devotee: There are so many similarities.
Prabhupāda: That's very nice. You take to Islamic culture. That's very nice. But what is the use of comparing?
Devotee: When one's tasted the higher taste, then how it is possible that he'll fall down in material sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: When one's tasted the higher taste in devotional service, how is it possible that he can fall back again in material sense gratification?
Harikeśa: (rephrasing the question) When one has tasted a higher taste, how is it that one can fall back down again into material sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: There is that possibility always. Just like the fire spark. Because it is spark, some way or other, if he falls down from the fire it is extinguished. That possibility is always there. Because it is small, there is possibility of being extinguished.
Jayāntakṛd: (rephrasing question from devotee) He's asking, can we stop mental speculation immediately?
Prabhupāda: You must stop immediately. (laughter) Mental speculation is simply nonsense. That's all right.
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol! (end).