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760709 - Morning Walk - Washington D.C.

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760709MW-WASHINGTON DC - July 09, 1976 - 19:41 Minutes

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He wants to help us. He has many degrees—in chemistry, in pathology, in engineering. He said if we have an institute like this . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . it would be very easy to defeat Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they claim that they are Vedāntists . . .

Prabhupāda: They are nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . but they have no bhakti. So we are in the line of Bhaktivedanta, so he said that this is the way to counteract the so-called Māyāvādīs or Vedāntists.

Prabhupāda: They're atheist. More than atheist. They have been described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu as more dangerous than the atheist. Vede nāmāniyā bauddha hoila nāstika, vedāśraya nāstikavāda bauddha ke ādi. They take the shelter of Vedas and preach atheism.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they do not accept what it is all said in the Vedas. They accept something and they reject something.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes they say that whatever they say must be supplemented from the Vedas. It's contradiction.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They support the proposition that in different Vedas different things are stressed, therefore . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should accept Bhagavad-gītā, the summarized Veda. Or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Or Vedānta-sūtra.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a mystery why they don't accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot poke their nose there. Then it will be cut off. (laughter) But still they are attempting to cheat by reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Although, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's somewhat easy for us to convince that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the summary study of all the Vedic literatures, how can we take that Bhagavad-gītā is the summary study?

Prabhupāda: It is preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhagavad-gītā ends; from there Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins. (break) Publish your book gradually in the magazine Sa-vijñānam.

Rūpānuga: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: In the journal, by . . . step by step.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Then publish in a book.

Rūpānuga: That's good. Like we did with your Bhāgavatam one time, we made little chapter editions. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . when they mention that the trees, the trunk of the trees we'll use for clothes. Barks of trees?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How would they do that? Would they take the same type of . . .

Prabhupāda: They knew how to do it. (break)

Rūpānuga: . . . question about geology.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) What do I know about geology?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In geology, there are certain rocks, especially in the West Coast, they found out that the top layer in the rock is older than the one in the bottom. Upside down.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And they have several explanations, mostly based on speculation.

Prabhupāda: Everything speculation. The down portion is older, no?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, the . . . in these rocks, the upper one is older according to their calculation by dating method, geological dating method, and the younger one is at the bottom. First I wanted to contact our prabhu at the . . . Bob?

Hari-ṣauri: Bob Cohen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, Bob Cohen, our geology . . . sometime Prabhupāda had trouble with this boy?

Devotee: In a Back to Godhead article.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are going to contact him, get some more information. So how do we explain these things?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How do we explain from our point of view? The upside-down of the rocks.

Prabhupāda: I cannot. First of all, we do not bother about these things.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are going to bring up these points, and the . . . (indistinct) . . . should say something. But we must know something how to counteract them. One point is that the . . .

Prabhupāda: It can be explained, that when there is devastation . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . the rock . . .

Devotee: Turned over.

Prabhupāda: . . . rolled. It was like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Catastrophism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the whole thing will be filled up with water. So water course is very heavy. So it can turn even big, big rocks, mountains rolling.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That happens when there is devastation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: At the end of Manu's day, when there is flood?

Prabhupāda: End of the day of Brahmā. End of fourteen Manus.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At that time is the earth destroyed, or is it simply covered by water?

Prabhupāda: Covered by water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That can explain many facts, because they're having great difficulty in finding these old fossils, in Siberia and all these other places. They find some very strange fossils, which are not supposed to be there according to their theory.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But if we accept this catastrophism, that can explain many facts.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The rocks also have offspring, if they're living?

Prabhupāda: That offspring is mouse. (laughter) There is information the rocks were flying.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, flying. Mountains, some mountains are flying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Indra cut off their wings. (break)

Devotee (1): . . . it's true that people are getting disease and sicknesses as the result of their past activities, pious or sinful. Why is it that it appears that when there is a flu many people are inflicted with that flu? Practically everyone, indiscriminately.

Prabhupāda: All of them? Hmm. "Birds of the same feather flock together," see.

Devotee (1): (laughs) What about when it happens amongst the community of devotees or some . . . hepatitis or malaria, or something of that nature?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? It is also past sins.

Devotee: Purification?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Well the materialists will say: "You're just accepting it that way. The reality is that you're becoming sick just like anyone else."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): The scientist or materialist will say: "You're just becoming sick like anyone else, but you're saying it's just . . . that you're becoming purified."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Well? What we have to do?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact, though, when people are suffering they're neutralizing their sinful reactions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the wrong there? (break)

Devotee (1): . . . becoming purified from this suffering, then why isn't it when we're sick, why is it that we forget Kṛṣṇa, we become disgusted, and after we are sick we don't feel any more advanced than before? (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . purified, you will not be sick. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . the difference between the materialist and the transcendentalist.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Materialist always thinks that they will try to overcome the laws of nature, and when the laws of nature catch over . . .

Prabhupāda: Śudhyeta satya. Sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer for the sinful activities of his disciples. (break) . . . this suffering is shortcut. For the karmīs it would have been a huge suffering, but devotee is . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (2): So then if he is sincere, then he should not be so sick in due time; his health should be good if he's practicing. If a devotee is practicing principles, then he should become healthy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, you cannot avoid sickness.

Devotee (2): No, but I mean overall, generally.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Devotees are generally healthier than karmīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: Once there was this brahmacārī, he used to complain to you about how sick he was all the time, and you said: "Are you not brahmacārī? Are you not following the brahmacārī principles?" which implied that if he were doing it sincerely he would not be so sick all the time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Devotee is sick, and he also knows that this is the mercy of the Lord so he doesn't complain in its real sense. But the material body is bound to suffer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) . . . you are convinced that you are not this body, then there is no suffering.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, that's the clue.

Prabhupāda: As you identify with the body, then you suffer. (break) . . . body is damaged, you are not damaged, but because you have got attachment for the motorcar, you suffer. (break) . . . song by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, yāhā smṛti nāhi yār, saṁsāra-bandhana kahata. One who has forgotten that he is this body, he has no suffering. (break)

Devotee (1): Then, Sanātana Gosvāmī had all those infections in his body, and Lord Caitanya embraced him, he felt so distressed and so lowly.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, so instructs us that even Sanātana Gosvāmī had to suffer. What you are, nonsense? You should not be sorry for suffering. That is the instruction. Why you are trying to avoid suffering? That is the instruction.

Devotee (1): Sanātana Gosvāmī, he accepted this sickness as a result of his own sinful past activities, he was so humble.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotee: So we should follow that example and accept like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the instruction. Tat te 'nukampām (SB 10.14.8). "It is Your mercy, my Lord, that I would have suffered hundred times more than this; You are giving me little suffering." That is devotee's view that, "I am so sinful, I would have suffered hundred times more than what I am suffering. But You are so kind that You are giving me little suffering and adjusting the account." (break) . . . thinks like that, for him, back to home, back to Godhead, is guaranteed. That is the bhagavata-dharma. Muktipadeśa dayābhāk. One who lives like that, doesn't care for suffering, goes on with his duty, that person is sure to go back to home, back to Godhead. Just like a son is sure to inherit the father's property. Dayābhāk, this word is used. Muktipadeśa dayābhāk. Legally heritage. Hah? What is called?

Devotee: Inheritance.

Prabhupāda: Inheritance, yes. Legally inheritance. (break) . . . we're afraid of suffering. Let there be so many, what is that? Let me do my duty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From these sufferings actually we know that this material world is full of misery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So how to get out this misery, that is the point, next step.

Prabhupāda: And those devotee, he is not hankering after how to get out of the misery. They do not care for misery.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Isn't it in the sense the material concept?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Devotee (2): . . . have to cultivate this tolerance, not only a physical pain, but sometimes other pains.

Prabhupāda: Tolerance . . . tṛṇād api sunīcena. Tolerance when they grasp everyone is . . . (indistinct) . . . he doesn't change. Taror api sahiṣṇunā. You have to learn these things.

Rūpānuga: Lord Caitanya says if we are tolerant then we can chant the holy name of the Lord purely.

Devotee: But the scientists, they'll laugh at us, and they'll say: "We are helping to . . ."

Prabhupāda: And we laugh at us, so what is the wrong? We laugh at them. We tell them. So that struggle will go on.

Rūpānuga: But we will laugh last.

Devotee (1): No, they'll say: "You're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I can give you this pill and I'll take away your pain," or "I can give you this medicine and correct your disease. You're chanting, but I am not seeing a practical result."

Prabhupāda: No, I will say: "Because I'm chanting you, you are my servant, you have brought the pill. (laughter) Because I am chanting, therefore Kṛṣṇa has sent the pill through you."

Rūpānuga: "You're simply working . . ."

Prabhupāda: "You're simply working as my servant, that's all."

Rūpānuga: They can make . . . we'll chant and dance, and they can make the car to take us on kīrtana, make the pills so we can keep healthy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The best pill is this hari-nāma.

Rūpānuga: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are the great physician. Everyone should come under your treatment. They're taking this hari-nāma as a bitter pill. But we are tasting it now, and after chanting and chanting, we're tasting, it's becoming sweeter and sweeter.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is all of our cars?

Devotees: Oh, yes. (end)