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760628 - Conversation A - New Vrindaban, USA

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760628R1-NEW VRINDAVAN - June 28, 1976 - 45.56 Minutes

(Conversation After Film)

Ṛṣi Kumāra: It was very beautiful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: Very nice film. Very pleasing.

Prabhupāda: Now make Indian Bengali edition. It will be very much appreciated in India. Yes. Is it not?

Ṛṣi Kumāra: Yes, everything looks so pleasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will very much like this movement. Make some Hindi version, Bengali.

Kīrtanānanda: I think it will be a great success in India.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kumbha-melā we can show. You had been in Kumbha-melā?

Ṛṣi Kumāra: No, I haven't. Last time it was Kumbha-melā, I was in Bombay. I had to do some business with books and stuff.

Prabhupāda: So you begin this preaching work in India with this film. With few assistants go village to village. They'll appreciate very much. Here also they will appreciate. Hmm? What do you think? School, college, university. They'll get an idea of new life.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. There are many colleges that give courses now in alternate life-styles.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this a . . .

Kīrtanānanda: This film, they will love to show this in class.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the alternative life-style. It is not that . . . this is the only. The other thing is fictitious. That's nice. Keep it. Any other film? No. Make similar films. And I was anxious about food preparation. That is there, already there.

Kīrtanānanda: Could have been a little more, but . . .

Prabhupāda: No, it is . . . in nutshell everything is there. Our agriculture, our temple, and food growing, and everything is there. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship. The sum and substance, everything. And you are living practically for the last . . . eight years? Here?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have no difficulty. You are happy more and more. Immense land. You can come, hundreds. We can provide. There is food. There is shelter.

Kīrtanānanda: They are worried that by protecting the cow it would not be economic, that they would lose. But actually we have proof—the more we protect cows, the more we gain in opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical. We have got enough food grain, we have got enough . . . that is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, paramānna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains—oh, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require . . . if you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take—bās. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy. That logic even I have given? Andha-paṅgu?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Blind and lame.

Prabhupāda: India could not improve on account of poverty—lame. And America? Blind for want of culture. So let the blind man carry the lame man on the head, and the lame man give direction that "Go this way," and he walks. So both men's work is done. There is no hampering because one is blind and one is lame. Combined together, they get the benefit. Andha-paṅgor nyāya.

Rādhā-vallabha: The book distributors use that example sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: It works, too.

Prabhupāda: Do it very sincerely. Don't spoil life. Be very sober and do this work. Whole world will be happy. After all, they are seeking after happiness. So there is happiness here. So our Ṛṣi Kumāra is very intelligent boy. He can do so many things. Don't spoil him. Whatever is done is done. Sometimes māyā is strong. He bewilders even Lord Śiva. That is . . . but Śiva immediately came to his senses—"What I am doing?" So things are going on nice. Continue this program. People will be happy. And I think America is the only place who can spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement happily for the benefit of the whole world. You have got everything sufficiently. Now get the Kṛṣṇa intelligence. Now here, in this quarter, sun also rising very nicely nowadays. Formerly it was not so bright. Due to this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting, sun is giving light. Is it not?

Kīrtanānanda: It is a fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The more people will be sinful, the place will be dark with cloudy. Nature will always disturb. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). They will not be happy. It is not possible. This is the only way to become happy. So, so far as possible, I have given you some framework. Now you fill up. Make it a nice building. Yes. All right. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Viśākhā was wondering who . . . if you have any idea or choice who should do the Hindi translation or Bengali translation and speaking for the film like this. Did you have anyone in particular in mind? Or inquiry should be made?

Prabhupāda: It requires some professional man. Laymen cannot go with the film.

Hari-śauri: It needs a trained speaker.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: Needs someone who's trained to speak nicely.

Prabhupāda: Anyone can do. We can do also.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But it may not come out so nice.

Prabhupāda: But it may not be perfect. (break)

Ṛṣi Kumāra: Prabhupāda, is it all right if I remain a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Stay for some time. You'll get sannyāsa. Stay for some time.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: Okay. I don't want to get married. It's just being kicked by māyā. I can see that.

Prabhupāda: At least you have got already experience. (laughs) Don't be misled. Stay for sometimes. You will be given sannyāsa. And now Mr. Punja, has he written any letter?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Punjasai? He wrote a letter recently. He mentioned the business about the books, that Gurukṛpā said he was supposed to some give books from Australia, and he wasn't getting them.

Prabhupāda: So you can write him—note down—that "We are managing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by GBC. We have got about twenty GBCs for looking after the whole world affair, and above the GBC, I am there, and under the GBCs there are president, treasurer, secretary in each and every center. So the president is responsible to the GBC. GBC is responsible to me. In this way we are managing. But why you are proposing a separate trustee for Fiji? We have no separate trustee till now, but if for security, if it is required, you can adopt it. So this is our management going on. Now, if you have got some new idea, so please explain to me how you want to manage. But I think Fiji temple cannot be managed in a separate idea. But still, I shall entertain if you have got some idea to manage. The deed should be given to the founder-ācārya, in the name of founder-ācārya, like 'A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Founder-Ācārya, International Society.'"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The deed?

Prabhupāda: The deed, yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Should be . . .?

Prabhupāda: "It cannot be dedicated to any of the office-bearers."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's one thing . . . I wanted to ask . . .

Hari-śauri: Should be in there, "Founder-Ācārya."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The deed should be . . .? I wanted to clarify that earlier this afternoon . . .

Prabhupāda: "Deed should be made in favor of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Ācārya, International Society. But it cannot be dedicated to any office-bearer. So I suggest that you become the president of the temple and Upendra become the secretary, and either your brother or your wife can become the treasurer. There is no need of trustees. But in any circumstances, the temple cannot be a private property in the name of ISKCON. That is not possible."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "A private property in the name of ISKCON."

Prabhupāda: "If you want to keep it a private property, then the ISKCON name should not be utilized." Here you have understood that he's trying to utilize ISKCON's name . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: To collect.

Prabhupāda: . . . to collect, and he'll be keeper. That should be frankly disclosed, that "This is not possible." So we shall write our Upendra? No, I have already written that he should be the secretary. No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You mentioned earlier today that he was supposed to be one of the trustees, but now this is different, so . . .

Prabhupāda: So we are not going to make any trustee.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, no trustee.

Prabhupāda: That is wrong.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So in this way write him, "I am very much anxious to get your clear reply to this thing." Is that all right?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I . . .

Prabhupāda: So many things, "push-push-push-push," is going on. Let it be clear. If he wants to keep it private property, then we shall withdraw ISKCON name. Let him do it privately.

Hari-śauri: And he should send copies of the deeds also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Because he has not yet produced the deeds.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's what I wanted to ask, request a copy of the deed.

Prabhupāda: You understand Hindi?

Ṛṣi Kumāra: Not really. A little bit, but I can't follow it. Do you want me to go to India, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Wherever you find suitable.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: I was thinking about going back to Los Angeles for a while, because there's good preaching to be done in Los Angeles and Laguna Beach, too. I know a lot of people there.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles or New York. New York is your old place. But you don't want to go there?

Ṛṣi Kumāra: New York? I can go there, I guess, but . . .

Prabhupāda: No, you can remain in Los Angeles for the time being.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: Because I know a lot of people in Laguna Beach who can be preached to. I think they'd be receptive, people who are . . .

Prabhupāda: Reception is everywhere if we manage nice.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: And there are a lot of artists and people who have everything, and they're living in the nicest . . . that's about the nicest place to live, and they're all unhappy. My brother's living there. He's a psychiatrist, and he's beginning to understand that the more he thinks, the more confused he gets. And I've been preaching to him, and he understands. There are also a lot of devotees who aren't in the temple now. They like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but they also could be preached to, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching constantly required to keep them in balance. As soon as the balance is overloaded on the māyā side, then everything is finished.

Hari-śauri: They get a bit overwhelmed sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That is possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very strong. But if we also become equally strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no . . . that . . . just like in the beginning, a seed sown, it requires very careful attention. Then it grows up. And when one grows a tree, then that is all right. But so long it is not a tree—it is a plant—one has to take . . . and the watering is śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. That is required. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. I think, Nineteenth Chapter of Madhya-līlā.

Hari-śauri: It's a very good description how the bhakti tree grows, the creeper of bhakti.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana? Nineteenth Chapter, Madhya-līlā.

mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa,
śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana
(CC Madhya 19.152)

"When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of śravaṇa and kīrtana, hearing and chanting, the seed will begin to sprout."

Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the śravaṇa-kīrtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of śravaṇa-kīrtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who engaged in the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in śravaṇa-kīrtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees. The word guru-prasāda indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called gurukṛpā. It is kṛṣṇa-prasāda, Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord.

"Bhakti-latā-bīja means 'the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bīja, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-latā-bīja, or seed of devotional service. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Other seeds are called anyabhilāṣita-bīja, karma-bīja and jñāna-bīja. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-latā-bīja from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bīja, jñāna-bīja, or political and social or philanthropic bīja. However, bhakti-latā-bīja is different from these other bījas. Bhakti-latā-bīja can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-latā-bīja: yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. Bhakti-latā-bīja is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bīja, or root cause, of karma, jñāna or yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-latā-bīja.

"This bhakti-latā-bīja is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana—hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting, kīrtana. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana (BG 2.41). One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master."

mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa
śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana
(CC Madhya 19.152).

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (offers obeisances) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . there were a funny man. Name was Gopal Bhan. So formerly kings, they used to keep some funny men because they are always full of anxiety, and one funny man would give them joke.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They call them jesters, court jesters.

Prabhupāda: Jester.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Court jester.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Court jesters, yes. So there was a man, court jesters, in Bengal. So the Muhammadan governor asked one Gopal Bhan, jester . . . he was jester in the court of Raja Krishnachandra. So he asked him, nawab, that "Gopal Bhan, I have heard that you are very expert. Can you write a similar book, Mahābhārata, about my kingdom?" (laughter) "Oh, yes. Why not? That is not . . ." So he took some hundred thousands of rupees and again come: "Give me another ten thousand," "Another ten," in this way. "When the book will be finished? You have taken so much money." "It is just on the verge of being finished." Then, when he saw that no more money can be taken—"I have taken so much money"—then he one day said that "Now, sir, one information is very essential. That is wanted. You give me, and the Mahābhārata will be finished. Everything is there." "What is that information?" "Now, your wife, how many husband she has got?" "This is nonsense!" "Eh? Well, that is the main subject matter of Mahābhārata. Draupadī had five husbands, so you are such a great person, your wife must have at least one dozen. Otherwise, how Mahābhārata will be . . .?" "It is the subject matter of?" "Yes, that is the only subject matter, that Draupadī had five husbands. So you are such a big nawab, your wife must at least have one dozen. So give me their names." So he became very angry: "Don't talk all this nonsense." "Then I cannot finish your Mahābhārata." "I have already invested . . ." So he took another ten thousand rupees, and he said, "Stop all this nonsense. That's all right." So these rascals, they are writing Gopal Bhan's Mahābhārata, and the rascal government is paying them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not producing anything.

Prabhupāda: They'll never be able. Challenge. "That we cannot say." As soon as you say, "Make an egg," "That we cannot say." And they'll chant, "Chemical evolution, chemical evolution" and get Nobel Prize. Rascals. But how the people are so foolish that they believe in this?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Without spiritual master there is nothing they can say.

Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform, it is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals. Combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, that's too good.

Prabhupāda: Hundreds of men demand them, that "Do it; otherwise don't talk nonsense. If you talk nonsense, then we will beat you with all our shoes." Then they'll stop all this nonsense talk. There is no punishment for their cheating and taking money.

Hari-śauri: That's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Your Back to Godhead article in this last magazine, "They can make a 747 jet, but not a tiny mosquito." Very thought-provoking.

Prabhupāda: With pilot. 747, you have to pay expert pilot, but here with pilot. Make this. Simply talking. Not only mosquito: at night we see so many, just like full stop, the same mechanical, flying from here, there, from here moving. Aeroplane, exactly in the form of . . . similarly standing and . . . that is our challenge. Challenge this. Go in public meeting. Bring these so-called scientists, "Why don't you make any . . .? Why do you talk all this nonsense and cheat people?" Simple. Why first of all Sunday? There is no Monday first. I think never this question's raised, anybody. Fool's paradise. The Western world is fool's paradise. Actually this is the time they are getting enlightenment. Otherwise they are all fool's paradise. No social life, no religious life, simply get money somehow or other and enjoy wine, women, meat. That's all. This is their civilization. Do live comfortably; there is no harm. But why misconception?

Hari-śauri: At least be honest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How can you deny God? All the scientists, they deny God. This simple fact that there is . . . (break) . . . is mother, and beginning from grass to the highest form of human being there are children. The mother is there; the children are there. Who is the father? How you can say there is no father? If the mother is there, then child is there, there must be father. I do not know how they can deny a supreme father. Anyway, this New Vrindavan life will attract people gradually, this peaceful life. They are searching after alternative.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yeah. In the Vedic culture did they have sheep? Sheep herds? Did they keep sheep?

Prabhupāda: Who?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For making, you know, the wool, woolen garments like the cap and cādara. Sometimes it's made out of wool. They would get from sheep?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, the meat-eaters cannot be stopped. They will eat meat. So they can kill the small animals, unimportant, not cow. Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. He never said lamb-rakṣya or hog-rakṣya. (laughs) You can eat hog. If it is decided that you must eat meat, then you can eat a nonimportant animal. We have no objection.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or at least, as you said this morning, wait until the cow dies naturally.

Prabhupāda: That is another. Otherwise, if you want to kill, you kill less important animal.

Hari-śauri: Chickens and rabbits. Like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But give protection to the cow, the source of milk.

Hari-śauri: In most rural districts formerly, even just sixty or seventy years ago, they used to do that. The used to keep a hog or some animals for killing. They would fatten them up and kill them.

Prabhupāda: Still in India, the low class, they keep hogs for killing. And they publicly kill the hog by burning outside the village skirt.

Hari-śauri: I can remember when I was a child that my grandfather, he had one pigsty. And the house that we were living in, that also had a pigsty at the back. There were no pigs by the time I came, but only just a few years before they were doing that.

Prabhupāda: Why the government should keep slaughterhouse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You asked them that in Mauritius, I remember. The government started a chicken slaughterhouse. You said, "Why the government should have slaughterhouse?" And they replied, "They will kill them anyway. There are so many Muslims." Prabhupāda said, "Let them kill, but why the government should support this slaughter?"

Prabhupāda: Let them kill at their house. Especially chicken, anyone can kill.

Hari-śauri: The government's idea is that "The people are going to do these activities, so we may as well cash in, make money."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: The government, their idea is that "If they are going to do this activity, then let us make money."

Prabhupāda: And as soon as I heard that prime minister went to open this, I immediately . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda didn't want to meet him.

Prabhupāda: "Oh, he's a rascal."

Hari-śauri: In Mauritius the prime minister opened a chicken factory.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's a Hindu, too.

Prabhupāda: Immediately I gave up the idea of meeting this rascal. (break)

Hari-śauri: Well, of course, they'll always try to claim . . .

Prabhupāda: From our estimation it is failure. They have not gone there.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: But what is their standard of failure and success?

Hari-śauri: Well, they don't . . . they're establishing a standard now. They don't have a standard. They are always going to try to claim that it is beneficial. Otherwise, if it's judged a failure, then they won't get any money.

Prabhupāda: That way they are successful—in getting money.

Hari-śauri: So they have to say it's a success. Just like this Mars thing. If they can land a spaceship that takes a few photographs, supposedly of Mars, then that's considered a success.

Prabhupāda: Photograph you can take anywhere.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Could they actually send . . .? Are they actually sending these spaceships to another planet, or . . .?

Prabhupāda: That they know. According to our calculations, they have not gone.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: It is false propaganda. They cannot go.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can go on a morning walk now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can go now, if you like. (end)