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760613 - Morning Walk - Detroit

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760613MW-DETROIT - June 13, 1976 - 27:57 Minutes

(in car)

Devotee (1): . . . use this land here now for our vehicles. We want to purchase it.

Hari-śauri: That's all our vehicles?

Prabhupāda: What price they want?

Devotee (1): We haven't started negotiating yet.

Prabhupāda: But they are willing.

Devotee (1): They're willing, they want to sell.

Prabhupāda: Up to this?

Devotee (1): No, only up to that bridge. I can show you on the way back.

Ambarīṣa: We've got some pictures we can show you later. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . bicycle also?

Ambarīṣa: Made where?

Prabhupāda: Bicycle? Cycle?

Ambarīṣa: Do the car companies make bicycles?

Prabhupāda: No, some companies.

Ambarīṣa: Oh, yes. Some they do here. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . Indian Village?

Ambarīṣa: It's a section, a suburb, Indian Village. Actually, the old temple used to be in Indian Village.

Prabhupāda: That means all residents Indian?

Ambarīṣa: No, it was actually . . . I think it was named for the American Indians.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ambarīṣa: They used to live here. There was a settlement, the street that the old temple used to be on. (break) Did you purchase any land at Kurukṣetra yet, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: The government is promising.

Ambarīṣa: Oh, that's good.

Prabhupāda: We have already applied for twenty-five acres. Mr. Candrali, he wanted to make some profit out of it.

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Devotee (1): I think you won the heart of that government official yesterday by saying that Kṛṣṇa's black and we worship Him. (laughter) He liked that.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Ambarīṣa: Yes, Detroit River, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Big, big ships, they pass under this bridge?

Ambarīṣa: No, on the other side of this island, there's a channel, a freighter channel. That's Canada over there, and this is a small island, Belle Isle.

Hari-śauri: What is that project up ahead? Renaissance?

Ambarīṣa: I guess . . . it's got same problems.

Prabhupāda: What is that problem?

Ambarīṣa: No, he was asking if they are . . . big project, Renaissance Center. They are having some problems building it. (short conversation about where to stop car)

Devotee (1): Yes, this is where we are going to walk.

Ambarīṣa: We should stop, then?

Devotee (1): Yes, I think this is nicer here.

Ambarīṣa: You should signal for him to stop, then. (break)

(on walk)

Devotee (1): . . . attract people back to the cities. It's called the Renaissance Project.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee (1): It's . . . Ambarīṣa's uncle, Henry Ford II, he is building, along with many different companies, a million dollar project.

Prabhupāda: Why not at Māyāpur? Huh?

Devotee (1): Ambarīṣa? I was explaining the Renaissance Project, and, ah, to try to attract people back to the city, they are building a million dollar project. Prabhupāda said: "Why not Māyāpur?"

Ambarīṣa: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Lake here dried up or what?

Hari-śauri: Looks like it. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . attracting men to the city.

Devotee (1): Because everyone is leaving the city.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Hari-śauri: But not from an industrialist's point of view.

Ambarīṣa: The cities are simply becoming for the low-class people. Cities are simply filled now with the low-class people. No respectable people can walk safely in the streets.

Devotee (1): In Detroit, at five o'clock, it becomes like a ghost town. No one walking. They are all afraid. If low-class people move into the buildings, everything becomes rundown, not kept up. So now they're investing millions and millions of dollars to build new buildings, new stores, to make it attractive again.

Prabhupāda: They'll not attain to make the low-class men high class. Huh? Why they are lacking that point?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually the high-class man and the low-class man, their activities are the same. Simply they are living in bigger and smaller houses. They smoke the same cigarettes and they drink the same.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say why not make them high class.

Hari-śauri: There's no high-class men to teach them.

Prabhupāda: We are there.

Hari-śauri: Except for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Just like that congressman yesterday, he was speaking, "I am a lawmaker." But he admitted that they are simply patching up here and there wherever they can. (break)

Devotee (1): Ambarīṣa? Somebody? Know what this building is?

Ambarīṣa: No, I don't know this park very well. It's a casino.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It's a gambling house, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is your news?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I've been visiting your buses, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and managing the book distribution with the buses. It's going very nicely. Ever since Māyāpur all the boys have doubled their collection and distribution. And as soon as all the debts from New York temple are paid, then more and more books can go. We'll try to do everything. (break) The men are just like the army, the van leaders, bus leaders. So everything is very efficient, clean, and very high-powered.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (break)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: . . . just two years ago, when we left India, that you wanted an army of sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs always traveling, distributing books.

Prabhupāda: (looking at plaque) Commissioners?

Hari-śauri: Commissioners of Parks and Boulevards, William Livingston Jr., President; Fred Gunter, Vice-President.

Ambarīṣa: Speramus Meliora . . .

Hari-śauri: . . . Resurget Cineribus. Some Latin inscription on the bridge.

Ambarīṣa: It means to increase their happiness they have built this park. Melior, increased happiness. Melior, like ameliorate, "To make happier." (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . Kṛṣṇa there is no happiness. All imagination.

Hari-śauri: Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇaḥ (BG 9.12).

Prabhupāda: We shall go this way?

Ambarīṣa: This way's okay, this side.

Satsvarūpa: . . . soldier. A hundred years ago when the north fought the south. This is some memorial. (break)

Makhanlāl: . . . devotional service is transcendental to the modes of material nature? That's from the very moment that one first begins to render devotional service? Or gradually? From the first very moment?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Makhanlāl: . . . of devotional service in the modes of material nature, there's no such thing.

Prabhupāda: No. Means if you do not follow the regulative principles, then it is mixed.

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes devotees think that in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, when Lord Kapila teaches there devotional service in ignorance and in passion and in goodness, that that may mean your own disciples, too. But then some devotees say: "No, we're above that designation. It's not mixed devotional service, even though we're neophytes."

Prabhupāda: If you voluntarily do not follow, then you fall down. That is in ignorance.

Makhanlāl: So where that is described in the Third Canto, Part Four, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, where it is described about devotional service in ignorance, passion and goodness and so forth, that has nothing to do with your disciples then?

Prabhupāda: Who is my disciple? First of all let him follow strictly the disciplined rules.

Makhanlāl: As long as one is following, then he is . . .

Prabhupāda: Then he is all right.

Makhanlāl: . . . above those lower levels.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why there is need of regulative principles? He is immediately liberated. If he thinks that, "Because I have taken to, I am liberated," then why the rules and regulations?

Makhanlāl: But as long as he follows the rules and regulations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Makhanlāl: . . . the brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), immediately?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa (BG 14.26), unalloyed. Bhakti-yogena sevate: then he's liberated. If it is vyabhicāreṇa, sometimes falls down, sometimes . . . then it is within sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. The word is māṁ ca yaḥ avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena: pure bhakti-yoga.

Hari-śauri: Without any falldown.

Makhanlāl: Falldown means deviation from the orders of the spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is vyabhicāreṇa, that is not avyabhicāreṇa. If you are subjected to the attraction of māyā, that is vyabhicāreṇa.

Makhanlāl: If somebody is following the instructions, but if there's attraction for māyā . . .

Prabhupāda: That cannot be. Maybe in the beginning due to past habits, but that must be nil very soon. Otherwise he's not following. Just like fan switched off may move for a little, but not that it will go on moving. Must stop, the switch is off. And if it is going on, then the switch is not yet off. (break)

Makhanlāl: A devotee is sometimes subject to hankering or lamentation. That is material, though, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Makhanlāl: In other words, if, at that moment, if he desires something other than Kṛṣṇa, that's a material desire.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to learn it. So, so long one is not competent in that position, he's subjected, he may fall down. What is that temple light?

Ambarīṣa: That's a fountain.

Prabhupāda: It is just like Jagannātha temple.

Hari-śauri: That, right in the distance there, with the light on the top. Yeah, same design.

Prabhupāda: It is like this. (break)

Makhanlāl: . . . after us anymore because they don't have the money.

Prabhupāda: Detroit has got no money? Such a big industrial city, neglected. They have got money.

Hari-śauri: They're not keeping this park up very well.

Prabhupāda: No. Because nobody comes here.

Hari-śauri: Too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Hari-śauri: Many of the big parks in the big cities, they are full of thieves and all kinds of other people.

Prabhupāda: That means they cannot improve the condition of the people. Just like at the airport, everyone is checked. There is no gentleman. Why everyone is checked? That means the whole mass of people, they're all rogues and thieves. Therefore it is necessary to keep an ideal, an ideal class of men, brāhmaṇas. Then people will follow. But there is no such . . . everyone is coolie. That's all. Everyone is. They are making everyone coolie. Coolie civilization. One officer came to see me in Perth, Australia. So I told him, "This is a civilization of fourth-class men." You remember?

Devotee (2): We heard the tape.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Devotee (2): You said there must be an ideal class of men.

Prabhupāda: There is no ideal class of men. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class.

Śrutakīrti: He accepted it also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you were present.

Śrutakīrti: Yes. At the finish he said: "Now I'm going back to my fourth-class friends."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): This man last night also, he admitted.

Prabhupāda: There is no first-class men. All fourth-class. They do not know what is first-class men. If one has got money, then he's all right. That is Kali-yuga. No qualification. If you have got money, then it is all right; you are big man. Money's everything at the present moment. People, they are trying to accumulate money by all means. Doesn't mind first class, second class, third class—bring money, any way. Rather, if one does not drink, he's a third-class man. And if one drinks, he's first-class man, civilized. In India, formerly, any gentleman comes, a glass of water or two sandeśa was given. Now that is rejected. If a gentleman is not offered a peg of wine and some chicken, then it is not proper reception. (break) . . . building?

Devotee (2): It's an office building, a big one in Renaissance Center . . . (indistinct) . . . those ones to your left they are under construction.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that templelike.

Devotee (2): Templelike, but it is an office building. Those are the buildings they are building their Renaissance Center. They're going to be very tall. (break)

(in car)

Prabhupāda: These people waste money. Money and time.

Devotee (1): Frivolousness.

Prabhupāda: Childish. They do not know the value of life.

Hari-śauri: These parks are not very regularly attended.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Hari-śauri: It's very dirty and overgrown. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . the Indian park. (laughter) Not like American park.

Hari-śauri: Living in the city is a very fearful existence. (break)

Prabhupāda: (interference on tape) . . . (indistinct) . . . you have seen, construction . . . (indistinct) . . . claim to 1976? . . . (indistinct) . . . sixty-five years this construction is going on. Nobody knows when it will be finished . . . (indistinct) . . . even in America. Break here; construction. What they will do? They have no engagement.

Ambarīṣa: Now they build a building, now they are building so that they will only last for twenty years or so, and then they will tear it down and build new ones. In Boston, they built a very tall building, and already it's sinking. And the windows are falling out, and it cannot be used. Millions of dollars they spent on this building. (break)

Devotee (1): . . . percentage of unemployment in the city. They are always trying to make new jobs for the people because there are so many people not working. And then they claim welfare, and the state supports them.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): The state supports them by welfare. So they are just idle and getting money from the government, and then they just cause trouble. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . storefront building?

Devotee (1): Yes, this is a black area. The black people move in . . .

Ambarīṣa: This used to be actually the best street in Detroit. About maybe seventy-five years ago, all the wealthy people lived on this street, Jefferson Avenue, and then the black people moved in and took over, and then all their businesses, they went out of business, and now it's all boarded up. Very dangerous place. Yes. All the white people in the suburbs, they live in fear of all the black people in the city.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The government cannot manage?

Ambarīṣa: No. The mayor is black. The police, they cannot do anything.

Devotee (1): The police force is also becoming black. He's putting black men in charge of every department of the city, and they're mismanaging everything.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of another civil war?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Possibly some sort of a race war or something. In Boston, they have a lot of trouble because of this bussing. They bus the black children into the white neighborhoods to go to school to achieve equal education, and the white communities do not like this. And in Boston there have been a lot of violence between the black people and the white people. Very much hatred, very much hate each other.

Prabhupāda: So only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Ambarīṣa: Yes. About a month ago there was a black lawyer, and he was walking out of the City Hall in Boston, and some white people beat him with an American flag. They beat him with an American flag and hurt him very badly, and this caused very much . . .

Prabhupāda: Commotion.

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is hatred within. Artificially they have given equal rights. (break)

Devotee (1): . . . because in bad neighborhood . . . (break)

(continues on bus)

Prabhupāda: . . . two vans.

Satsvarūpa: Besides this, well, we have so many more. Ghanaśyāma and the men in the library party, they have three vans, and then the men who finance their travels, they have two vans, so that's another five.

Prabhupāda: Along with this van, another van goes?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. And since we have this and the Deity worship, the collecting has increased and the book distribution, because now they're more regulated and it's not so difficult.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have a kitchen in the back, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And a shower and toilet, a sink. It's complete.

Prabhupāda: Small house.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, traveling.

Prabhupāda: This is fulfilling Caitanya Mahāprabhu's desire: pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126): "Go to every village and town." So you are doing very nice to satisfy the Lord. He wanted this. Pṛthivīte nagarādi—all over the world. So when He meant all over the world, naturally He meant all the people of the world. Why Indian? Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma, it will include all the villages, towns, all over the world. That means all people of the world should take up this. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra (CC Adi 9.41). The Indians' duty is to carry the message and give it to the other people, and then they'll do. (break) . . . a worldwide movement, not any particular. They may not misunderstand that this is Indian or Hindu. It is not that. Kṛṣṇa is meant for everyone. So, we shall have to go?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First class. Everything is first class.

Satsvarūpa: They have all your books here too, Śrīla Prabhupāda. All your books are here. (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: Yes . . . (indistinct)

Satsvarūpa: . . . full of your tapes. (end)