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760520 - Conversation A - Honolulu

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760520R1-HONOLULU - May 20, 1976 - 31:05 Minutes

(audio quality very poor throughout)

Prabhupāda: . . . at any moment . . . (indistinct) . . . and what is the program to get out of it? . . . (indistinct) . . . why you are proud of your so-called rascaldom? . . . (indistinct) . . . what is your insurance to save yourself from the . . . (indistinct) . . .?

Woman devotee (1): My insurance?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Only insurance is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31) . . . (indistinct) . . . that is your only insurance. That is . . . (indistinct) . . . simply by chanting . . . (indistinct) . . . insurance to save you.

Devotee (2):

kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā
śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati
kaunteya pratijānīhi
na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati
(BG 9.31)

"He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kuntī, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes."

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (2): Purport. "This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities—either by accident or intention—be a pure devotee? This question may be justly raised. The miscreants, are stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in the nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature. According to the Vedas, there is a certain regulation that if one falls down from his exalted position he has to undergo certain ritualistic processes to purify himself. But there is no such condition, because the purifying process is already there in the heart of the devotee, due to his remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly. Therefore, the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare should be continued without stoppage. This will protect a devotee from all accidental falldowns. He will thus remain perpetually free from all material contaminations."

Prabhupāda: It is the only process to save yourself.

Devotee (3): You . . . you told a story once about, there was one . . . the devotee of Lord Caitanya, where he had never met Lord Caitanya, but he had some water sprinkled on him from a Muslim, Muhammadan, and that . . . that astrologer told him to pour . . . to drink lead, hot lead. And he said . . . I was . . .

Prabhupāda: Buddhimanta Khān.

Devotee (3): Yeah, Buddhimanta Khān.


Devotee (3): You've also said in the past that there is no reality of this material world save for . . . save Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, save . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, nāma vinā kichu nāhika āra, cauddha-bhuvana-majhe.


Devotee (3): Kṛṣṇa is our only insurance, and you are the . . . you are the insurance representative.

Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they become enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, . . . (indistinct) . . . was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are so . . . (indistinct) . . . what the Christians will ask? Therefore we are . . . (indistinct) . . . and not only that, they have been given this idea that, "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed." Cow-killing is very, very sin. "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.

Devotee (2): They . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): They call it love.

Prabhupāda: This is love? If you say: "Prabhupāda, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you." Please don't love me! (laughter) Please get out. "I love you so much that I will kill you."

Devotee (2): They like to keep the . . . Christ, the deity of Christ, they keep him nailed on the cross. They think that's very . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore you see all the pictures in the church, he is carrying the cross, and he is pushing, pushed by the government men. How miserable condition they show.

Devotee (2): They don't have any . . .

Prabhupāda: They do not have picture, just like we show Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Such rotten things. That is going on in religion. They love . . . they love means they want to see their lovable suffering so much, you see. Only then . . . (indistinct) . . . this, we want to see our lovable object that He is enjoying. Young boy . . . (indistinct) . . . gopīs, and nice night, playing flute, He's enjoying. That we want to see. And they want to see that lovable, he is suffering. How they can see it, if there is love?

Siddha-svarūpa: If they loved him they would not be able to stand to look at that.

Prabhupāda: That is going on in the name of religion. Therefore so many rogues, rascals. Rascals. We say clearly . . . (indistinct) . . . simply rogues.

Siddha-svarūpa: That is the symptom there. If they loved him, they would not be able to see that and glorify that.

Prabhupāda: That there was something . . . (indistinct) . . . one picture . . . (indistinct) . . . there was a competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is . . . (indistinct) . . . of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings . . . (indistinct) . . . that one painter, he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture . . . (indistinct) . . . he got it. So that is real idea. You may paint . . . (indistinct) . . . expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is . . . (indistinct) . . . it is correct. So how the mother can see it? There is . . . (indistinct) . . . being killed. So it is not very easy to . . . (indistinct) . . . cover the mouth, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is . . . (indistinct) . . . all going on in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Simply. They do not know what is God, they do not know . . . (indistinct) . . . what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp, "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ (SB 1.1.2). All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, disobeying the instruction of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? "Therefore I shall kill him." Is that religion? And they are showing how he was killed.

Siddha-svarūpa: One . . . one man once said that to carry . . . to glorify the cross is like they . . . glorifying the revolver.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: If the husband is shot, then you take the gun and you worship the gun.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . yes. Very good example. Are you, are you going to some church . . . (indistinct) . . .?

Woman: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So, the same picture, that Jesus Christ is carrying his cross, and falling, falling. And you go enjoy.

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: In Māyāpur you have seen Yoga-pīṭha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu birthplace? Yoga-pīṭha?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . .

Devotee (2): Oh.

Prabhupāda: . . . and two sides, his two wives. Not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is worshiped as a sannyāsī.

Devotee (2): Gṛhastha.

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha. Gṛhastha with two wives, he must enjoy. This is our process. Why you will see Him as a sannyāsī? Therefore Nityānanda Prabhu broke his daṇḍa. They want . . . do not want to see Him as sannyāsī, . . . (indistinct) . . . renounce. Why He should be renounced? He is gṛhastha. "Oh, well." God must enjoy . . . (break)

Devotee (5): I'm sorry it took so long, but I had a little trouble getting through to them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): First their . . . first the telephone service were not free, and then their line was busy for some time. So I just got through to them a few minutes ago, and he says it wasn't printed by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Devotee (5): He said they did it independently, unauthorized from Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and he already chastised them for using the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust label, 'cause it has nothing to do with the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Devotee (5): Uhhh, I'm not sure. Who sent it? Bahulāśva? That devotee named Bahulāśva?

Devotee (6): Bahulāśva and Bhakti dāsa.

Devotee (5): And who else?

Devotee (6): Jayānanda. But Jayānanda . . . I saw this printed in L.A. before I came here.

Devotee (5): Oh.

Devotee (6): So I don't think it's a San Francisco endeavor.

Devotee (7): The separations were all . . .

Devotee (5): No, he said it was done there.

Devotee (6): Oh, in San Francisco?

Devotee (5): Yeah, they printed it while the festival was going on in India, and he didn't know anything about it until he came back and saw that it was all printed. He said they were going to use it for some . . . something to do with lectures.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (5): They were going to use it to introduce lectures and so forth.

Prabhupāda: So it was not published, so why did he publish unauthorized?

Devotee (5): Oh, I don't know. He said that he was a little upset about it himself.

Prabhupāda: So this should not take place again. They should be informed that without being passed by the authority, nobody should publish any literature. This is already . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (5): Without, without being passed by the authorities . . .?

Prabhupāda: Should not be published.

Devotee (5): Does that mean the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust trustees?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So those who are managing, but why they are . . . (indistinct) . . .? Where does he live?

Devotee (3): I . . . we're still not sure who published it. Uh, Bahulāśva or Dharmādhyakṣa? Has anybody . . . did you mention that?

Devotee (5): Rameśvara told me that they are the ones who did it, from the San Francisco center. Bahulāśva he mentioned, and a Dharmādhyakṣa.

Devotee (3): Hmm. Hmm. He's in LA.

Devotee (5): He mentioned those two. He didn't mention the others. He said they were . . .

Prabhupāda: Bahulāśva published, published?

Devotee (5): He said Bahulāśva and Dharmādhyakṣa.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (5): Dharmādhyakṣa. I don't know who he is.

Devotee (3): It's the colleges.

Devotee (5): Oh. They're, I think, in charge of the college program.

Prabhupāda: The idea is good, but . . . (indistinct) . . . impersonal.

Devotee (5): Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Impersonal is not good.

Devotee (5): So if someone was to receive this, they wouldn't necessarily connect it with you at all. They could think it was anything, 'cause there's no mention of your name.

Prabhupāda: Who published it?

Devotee (5): Uhh, I don't know who printed it.

Prabhupāda: That you did not ask?

Devotee (5): Rameśvara didn't know anything about who printed it or how many copies were printed or anything. He said all he knew was that it was put together by Bahulāśva and Dharmādhyakṣa.

Prabhupāda: So ask them.

Devotee (5): I have to contact them and find out how it was actually . . . should I write them a letter?

Prabhupāda: He just sent one letter. You, you write.

Devotee (5): This letter?


Prabhupāda: So he, he is informed you are going?

Devotee (5): Rameśvara? Oh, yeah. They're waiting.

Prabhupāda: So . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (5): Well, they sent the tickets today, but we have not made the reservation yet. We were waiting for them to . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . that place was selected . . .

Devotee (5): Hmm.

Prabhupāda: . . . for . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (7): Do you want to establish one center there?

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (7): Yeah, I would like to help.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (7): I would like to help.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Devotee (7): . . . (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Especially when there is . . .

Devotee (7): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This Ratha-yātrā is in memory of Kṛṣṇa's coming there with His brother and sister during one eclipse, to take bath, coming from Dvārakā.

Devotee (7): And the gopīs also assembled there?

Prabhupāda: The gopīs got the information that Kṛṣṇa is coming from Dvārakā, so from Vṛndāvana they went to see Him. And when Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī met, the Rādhārāṇī lamented that Kṛṣṇa—He was the same Kṛṣṇa and the same Rādhārāṇī—so "This is not a good meeting place. So if You come to Vṛndāvana, then I shall be happy." So it is inviting Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. That is the feeling of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Ratha-yātrā. He is inviting Kṛṣṇa to Vṛndāvana. So in Jagannātha Purī still the same feelings are there. Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha, from the temple goes to Guṇḍicā. So Lakṣmī is angry that, "Kṛṣṇa is leaving me. He has gone to Vṛndāvana." So she was . . . she is punishing. That is called Herā-pañcamī, punishing the servants of Kṛṣṇa. The maidservants of Lakṣmī chastising them, threatened them, "Why without permission?" (laughs) So they, out of very fearful condition, offering their respect to Lakṣmī, "Mother, you don't be sorry. I am here . . . (indistinct) . . ." So this, this is the play performed, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu associates they saw, and they enjoyed very much when the maidservant of Lakṣmī was slapping the servant of Viṣṇu. That is mentioned Caitanya-caritāmṛta. All the servants arrested, brought before Lakṣmī, and they are punished. (laughs) But they came to invite Kṛṣṇa, Rādhārāṇī and other gopīs. And actually they do not go at that time. But this Ratha-yātrā ceremony means Kṛṣṇa is coming from Dvārakā to Kurukṣetra. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā.

Devotee (5): Do they have any temples of Lord Jagannātha there? They have any temples of Lord Jagannātha in Kurukṣetra?

Prabhupāda: No. Jagannātha, that is another history. King Indradyumna, he wanted to establish a temple of that incidence, and that the deities while being carved would remain unfinished. So he was very impatient to establish, so he established the unfinished Deity. That is Jagannātha.

Devotee (7): The nondevotees cannot understand . . .

Prabhupāda: They are being carved, Kṛṣṇa's wood form, but he was so impatient, he said, "Whatever is done now, establish." It is said that Viśvakarmā was enquiring. So the term was, Viśvakarmā said that "Unless I finish, don't open the door." So this king, he went impatiently, and calling out whether he is finished. Then he forced . . . forcibly opened the door, and it was unfinished. So he said, "Never mind, . . . (indistinct) . . ." Unfinished Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . so Kṛṣṇa, finished or unfinished, is Kṛṣṇa. That is omnipotency. That is Jagannātha form . . . (indistinct) . . . doesn't matter finished or unfinished. (end)