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760519 - Conversation - Honolulu

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760519R1-HONOLULU - May 19, 1976 - 13:25 Minutes

(audio very indistinct throughout)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . going to be new form, this human form, you get immediately. Your sacrifice means . . . (indistinct) . . . special place you get immediately. This is the process. So he is not loser. And you have the right to query.

Siddha-svarūpa: (laughing) The fool who would choose . . . say that, consciously . . . (indistinct) . . . really is not very intelligent.

Prabhupāda: This is the process . . . (indistinct) . . . takes all this risk . . . (indistinct) . . . but the animal-killing, he is making.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: He is not loser. This man who is killing, then he is taking the risk of being killed by the . . . (indistinct)

Paramahaṁsa: What if the Christian says that killing plants would also then be prohibited?

Prabhupāda: That is not your business. If you are Christian, your business is first to obey the orders of Christ. That is not your business.

Paramahaṁsa: You mean if, if . . . well, see, he'll, he'll . . . see, if I say that Jesus says "Don't kill," he doesn't say: "Don't kill humans," he says "Don't kill." And if you're killing the animals for food, then actually you're going against this law because you're killing. But then he'll say . . .

Prabhupāda: Does he think that the killing of animals and killing of the plants, the same? He thinks like that?

Paramahaṁsa: Uh, no. But he, he might . . .

Prabhupāda: That he might, but that on the basis that he thinks like that . . .

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . that killing of a big cow and killing of the plant is the same. Does he think like that?

Paramahaṁsa: Uh, he would think like that.

Prabhupāda: So that is also another nonsense. Why in your state, when you kill a man, you are hanged, and when you are killing an animal you are not? Why? Why? You are Christian. If you say killing of animal and killing of man is the same, then why you are hanged? Huh? Why you discriminate? Why don't you kill your own child? Why discriminate?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. So they have to learn discrimination.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Discrimination is the difference between a man and an animal. You can eat. Nature's law: that one life is food for another. And then you . . . (indistinct) . . . that is the nature's law. And you have to obey the order of the Supreme. That is your business. Now, so far we are concerned, we are not killing anyone, either vegetable or animal. We are offering Kṛṣṇa. So if Kṛṣṇa orders that "Give Me patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ (BG 9.26)," and by His order I kill . . . this, this is not killing. If I take a fruit, if I take some flower, take some plant, this is not killing. You may accept it that it is killing; then it is Kṛṣṇa's order. I am not ordering. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Just like the commander says to kill; therefore he kills . . . (indistinct) . . . for duty, and he will, and he . . . (indistinct) . . . to the . . . (indistinct) . . . "Come on, take this medal." But that does not mean that you kill at your whims, and want to get a medal. So he will get the medal by killing in the army, one medal: "Now, give this medal." "No medal. Now you will be hanged. Now you will be hanged, that you wanted by your own." So we have to carry out the order. Now you can kill anyone. That is battle. Even Arjuna. Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa . . . he did not want to kill, but Kṛṣṇa said: "Yes, you must kill." "I shall kill my grandfather?" "Yes!" "I shall kill Droṇācārya, my teacher?" "Yes! You must kill!" That was the whole argument, Bhagavad-gītā. He understood that. He is Vaisnava . . . (indistinct) . . . he did not like. But Kṛṣṇa: "Must kill! Must kill!"

So we have to carry out Kṛṣṇa's order. Even if you think that these vegetables are being killed, it is not killing. If I take the fruit from the . . . (indistinct) . . . but for argument's sake, if you say it is being killed, but that is not our responsibility; it is Kṛṣṇa's responsibility. And so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, in the Vedas, akarma . . . (indistinct) . . . He is never contaminated by any sinful reaction. Even superficially he is not. Literally killing his own countrymen . . . (indistinct) . . . does it mean that he is committing sin? To kill one's kinsmen, relative, father, like that, there is sin. And he is killing another, and another, father, son. So you have to abide by the order. That is your duty. Kṛṣṇa says that to kill a cow and to kill a human being is the same sin . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa does not say. Kṛṣṇa could have killed so many cows—they are tending cows, daily in . . . (indistinct) . . . He said go-rakṣya. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ (BG 18.44). And He actually protected . . . (indistinct) . . . so you have to follow Kṛṣṇa's order, stay in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We shall give protection to the cows, and we shall prepare foodstuff for Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . and we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. In that consciousness . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. We do not do anything which is not ordered. Always do everything by His permission. This is our . . . Kṛṣṇa ordered that bring the cow's . . . (indistinct) . . . we are taking . . . (indistinct) . . . so what is your religion? Your religion, that "Thou shall not kill." As we follow Kṛṣṇa's order, you should follow Christ. Then you are Christian.

Paramahaṁsa: There's . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Paramahaṁsa: There's no possibility of people's understanding Jesus. Simply a matter . . . because there's no, there is . . .

Prabhupāda: They have no knowledge.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . we have no difficulty. All rascals. Like these horses, wild; and intoxication and illicit sex . . . (indistinct) . . . they cannot understand. Therefore the only process is that let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. Then gradually they will be cured. Then . . . (indistinct) . . . first of all business, when they sing and dance, when he sings this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and diet, encourage them, and they will . . . (indistinct) . . . just like fire was spreading, . . . (indistinct) . . . they understand what is to be done.

Paramahaṁsa: Did Yogi Bhajan write you back? Did he respond to your letter to them? Not yet?

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Siddha-svarūpa: Can I be excused? I've . . . I have a . . . I caught an influenza . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Siddha-svarūpa: . . . so I have a slight fever. I will try to break it. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)