760427 - Lecture CC Madhya 20.98-102 - Auckland

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760427CC-AUCKLAND - April 27, 1976 - 52.16 Minutes



Prabhupāda: So this evening I shall speak to you about Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he resigned from his ministership in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah in Bengal and joined Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So there is a long history how he resigned. He was the trustee of the government. Formerly, although the government was Muhammadan, the best Hindu personality was engaged to take charge of the ministership. Even in Akbar's time the same principle was done, Mahārāja Jai Singh. Even Aurangzeb, he was a very rigid Muhammadan, still, his principal minister was Mahārāja Jai Singh. Similarly, Sanātana Gosvāmī and his brother Rūpa Gosvāmī, they accepted the government service coming from a very respectable brāhmaṇa family. But they were rejected by the brāhmaṇa community because they accepted the service of Muhammadan. Formerly, the Hindu society was very strict. Brāhmaṇas would not accept anyone's service. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, after joining Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he left Bengal. And when Śrīla Caitanya Mahāprabhu was residing in Benares to deliver the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, at that time, his bavarṇasi (?)... So after he was clean-shaved... This is one of the items of our movement. If one wants to be initiated, he must be clean-shaved. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was clean-shaved. And after becoming a regular Vaiṣṇava, then he is asking like this:

tabe sanātana prabhura caraṇe dhariyā
dainya vinati kare dante tṛṇa lañā
(CC Madhya 20.98)

So he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu in a very humble manner. That is the way of approaching a guru. The Vedic instruction is,

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet
samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
(MU 1.2.12)

Samit-pāṇiḥ, taking that short grass, kuśa. It is called, in Sanskrit, it is called kuśa. So Sanātana Prabhu approached Him very humbly. That is the way. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

We must approach a bona fide guru for enlightenment. And samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam: one who has received knowledge by hearing, not by speculating. Nowadays it has become a fashion to speculate. The Vedic injunction is, "No. By hearing." You have to approach the right person and hear. Therefore the whole Vedic literature is called śruti. One has to learn very intelligently by hearing from the authority. The same example we find in Bhagavad-gītā. In the battlefield, where time is very valuable, still, Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is instructing, and Arjuna is hearing.

So this hearing process is our Vedic process. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, according to, of course, Vedic injunction: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ (SB 10.14.3). You haven't got to change your position. It is not necessary that you have to take sannyāsa from gṛhastha life, you have to give up your occupation. No. That is not very important thing. The important thing is... This verse was submitted by Lord Brahmā:

jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva
san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām
sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir
ye prāyaśo ajito 'py asi tais...
(SB 10.14.3)

If you want to understand God... That is the business of human life. Human life is specially... That is the chance. Because we are in the cycle of birth and death, changing, migrating from one body to another. This is our position. So except human body, lower than the human body we can understand how they are suffering. Suppose a tree. Here we are sitting so comfortably. A few yards off from this place, there is a tree, and it is standing for thousands of years. Is not that punishment? If I tell Mr. Such-and-such, "You stand up here for five hours," he'll become mad. That is a sort of punishment to the children. Formerly, the punishment was... The teacher in the class, a naughty boy, he's asked, "Stand up on the bench." Therefore, half an hour to stand up on the bench becomes a very, very intolerable pain for him. So just imagine that the tree, this is punishment, standing in one place. I saw one tree in San Francisco, they say it is seven thousand years old.

So except human form of life, there are eight million different forms of life. And there is little idea in the Darwin's theory of evolution. That is only imitation of the Vedic literature, and he wanted to credit for himself. He presented it pervertedly. But actually, in the Padma Purāṇa the evolution theory is there. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu (Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa). There are 8,400,000 species of forms in jīva-jātiṣu, the living entities. They're passing through. So this is the chance, human form of life, to get out of this cycle of birth and death. Actually, this is our miserable condition. Kṛṣṇa presents these four things as actually miserable condition. We are trying to remove miseries and get happiness. This is called struggle for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣthānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūto jīva-loke sanātanaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that "These living entities, they are My part and parcels, qualitatively as good as I am." So the Vedānta-sūtra says, "The living entities or God, they are meant for enjoyment." Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature ānandamaya. So "Why I am put into this miserable condition?" This is the questions by intelligent human being. And if he remains satisfied with the miseries of this material life, then he's no better than the cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

So this is intelligence, to inquire about the miserable condition of life. So Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says,

nīca jāti nīca saṅgī patita adhama
kuviṣaya-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama
(CC Madhya 20.99)

"My dear Sir, although I was born in brāhmaṇa family, but now I am rejected. I am counted amongst the Muhammadans." Because their name was also changed, these two brothers. And even they were rejected by the brāhmaṇa community, and their association was these big, big zamindars, most of them viṣayīs, only concerned with pound, shilling, pence. So about him it is said by Śrīnivāsa Ācārya, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. These Gosvāmīs, they were very exaltedly posted as minister and were associate... Minister means associated with big, big men, big businessmen, big zamindars, like that. So maṇḍala-pati. And big men, maṇḍala-pati, who controls a very big circle, especially the zamindars, landholders. So tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. He gave up the association of these big, big men. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. Tuccha means, "Eh, what is this? It has no value." So this is not ordinary thing, one can give up. But by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one may think of this material enjoyment very insignificant. (child making noises) (aside:) The child may be taken out. So he gave up the association and... (break)

...the birds, they have no problem. Early in the morning they rise up, and they are certain somewhere there is some fruit. They will eat and sleep in the top of the tree. They haven't got to make arrangement, economic development. It already is there. But it is very difficult to understand that these material necessities of life is already arranged. You cannot get more, cannot get... Suppose some of our Indian friends, they come to this country, far away. Does it mean that simply by coming here he has become millionaire? No. In Bengali it is said, yadi gar baṅge kaphala yabe saṅge(?): "Wherever you go, your this fate will go with you." If you are meant for getting ten thousand, you'll never get ten thousand one hundred. You'll get, either you remain in your country or go to hell. Destiny. This is called destiny. Therefore śāstra says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā
(SB 1.5.18)

Just like nobody hankers after distress, but we have experienced, distress is forced upon us. So similarly, śāstra says that whatever happiness you are destined to get, wherever you remain, you'll get it by destiny. So there is no need of trying for suppressing distress and getting happiness. Don't waste your time in that way. But you try for that thing which you never got in other different forms of life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This life is meant for this purpose, to understand Kṛṣṇa and God, or God. Yes. That is the only... Athāto brahma jijñāsā, this is meant, not for wasting our time simply with the animal propensities. The modern civilization, modern education, has no information about this. Nobody is trying to understand what is the actual aim of life. There is no such civilization. Therefore he is presenting himself, kuviṣaya-kūpe paḍi' goṅāinu janama (CC Madhya 20.99): "Simply in the matter of searching after false happiness I have wasted my time." That he has condemned.

Then he says,

āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jān
grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni
(CC Madhya 20.100)

Because brāhmaṇas in India, it is a custom is still: whatever he may be, because he's born in a brāhmaṇa family, he's addressed as paṇḍitjī. Paṇḍitjī. So here Sanātana Gosvāmī says, grāmya-vyavahāre. Grāmya-vyavahāre means in village transaction. "Actually I am not paṇḍita, but these villagers, my neighbors, they call me paṇḍita. And because they call me paṇḍita, I also think that I am a paṇḍita." I have seen it in Calcutta. One man was pulling on thela with a sacred thread, and another man, maybe he's village man, he "Paṇḍitjī, pala ela(?)." And he's pulling on thela, he said, "Betaji kag amar(?)." Now this is going on. What is the value of his āśīrvāda, blessing, who is engaged in pulling on thela? But this is grāmya-vyavahāre. This is not actual fact. So Caitanya Mahā, by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Sanātana Gosvāmī has learned it that "They called me paṇḍita. It is false address. I am not really paṇḍita." "Why you are not paṇḍita? You are educated. You are very good scholar in Sanskrit and Parsi." And as in these days English is considered to be very important subject - and actually it is. So unless one is educated in English, he's half-educated, still. So he was educated, certainly. As a brāhmaṇa he was educated in Sanskrit, and as government officer, he had to learn, in those days, Urdu and Parsi. So he was educated. So... But he says that "Although they call me paṇḍita and I am, maybe I am little educated, but the difficulty is that I do not know what is the ultimate goal of life, or my real position of happiness." Āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni (CC Madhya 20.100).

Ask any learned scholar in these days that "What is the ultimate goal of life?" They will say, "Oh, there is no particular aim(?). Let us live very happily, and after death everything is finished." I have consulted many men, big, big professors, Indian and foreign. They have no idea of the first education in the Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). There is change of body. There is already change of body. I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. Now this body is changed—I have got this wretched body, old man's body. So all these bodies... That is simple, logical. Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning—that is the first lesson of Bhagavad-gītā—that,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Dehinaḥ means the proprietor of the body. But every one of us thinking "I am this body." They have no first lesson of Bhagavad-gītā. First lesson only, A-B-C-D, that "You are not this body." This is the first lesson. When Arjuna was talking in bodily relationship, so, and he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). "There is perplexity. I cannot understand, Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa was his friend, but he accepted Him guru. Accepting guru means if you accept somebody guru, then whatever he will say, you have to accept. Śiṣya. Śiṣya means one who is ruled. So if you voluntarily accept somebody, that "I shall be ruled by you," that is guru. Not that "I shall rule over you by giving some money." Then it is not accepting guru. Guru means in all circumstances. Guror hitam. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). Therefore the first training is to live in gurukula, to learn how to respect guru, how to abide by the orders of guru. So Kṛṣṇa is guru. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham (BG 2.7): "I am Your now disciple. Now give, teach me." Then Bhagavad-gītā was begun. Not before that.

So teaching should not begin unless one accepts the teacher as the ultimate guru. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching the same thing as Caitanya Mahāprabhu will teach Sanātana Gosvāmī, the same process: tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So the teacher, Kṛṣṇa, first of all chastised Arjuna. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhasase: "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned scholar, but you are engaged in such a thing which is not at all lamentable."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"One who is learned, paṇḍita, he has no business to consider about this body." Now see, the whole world is concerned with this body. But this is condemned. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is accepting this body, which is nothing but combination of tri-dhātu... Or you take the material elements: earth, water, air, fire. Or more explicitly: the skin, blood, bone, urine, stool. You'll find these things. But do you think such intelligent person is created, manufactured, by bone and blood and skin and urine and stool? It's common sense. It is something else, spirit soul. That they do not understand.

So Sanātana Gosvāmī is also placing that grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni (CC Madhya 20.100): "These fools and rascals call me paṇḍitjī, and I accept, 'Oh, I am paṇḍita.' But actually my position, āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: I do not know what I am and what is the goal of my life. I am thinking, 'I am this body, and the body is finished then everything is finished.' This is my knowledge." So just compare. This knowledge is going on all over the world, "I am this body." And anyone who is thinking that he's this body, he's no better than cats and dogs. The dog is also thinking like that, "I am this body." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu (SB 10.84.13)... It is not my manufactured word; it is stated in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body is made of these elements. Either call earth, water, air, fire, or you can, blood, bone, and so many things. So if we take this combination of blood, bone, muscles and veins and urine and stool is the life, then he, you are no better than the cats and dogs. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and kharaḥ means ass. So the ass is also thinking like that; a cow is also thinking like that. If you are thinking like that, then you are... So one has to learn what he is.

Then Sanātana Gosvāmī said,

kṛpā-kari' yadi more kariyācha uddhāra
āpana-kṛpāte kaha 'kartavya' āmāra
(CC Madhya 20.101)

"My Lord, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, very kindly You went to my place and You have delivered me, so that after Your visit I decided to resign from the government service, and I have come to You. So You have delivered me from the pitfalls of this materialistic way of life. Now tell me what is my duty." This is student. This is disciple. Approach a bona fide guru, a spiritual master, and abide by his orders and do accordingly. Then your life will be successful. And if you keep yourself in the darkness, that "I am very rich man, I am very learned man, but unfortunately, I do not know what I am," so what is the use? The Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura: vidyā-kule hi karibe tāra. So if you do not know yourself, then what your so-called education and high family, high nationality, will help you? Nature's law is different. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). If you do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, if you remain like cats and dogs, then prakṛti, nature, will give you the cats' and dogs' body next life. Suppose you become very big businessman and you have got nice, very big balance and so on, so on, but by your activities you remain like a dog mentality is, then you are going to get the body of a dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). The test is at the time of death. At the time of death, if my mentality is different, so according to that mentality I shall get the body. This is called transmigration of the soul. There is no teaching of this science throughout the whole world, and we are trying to educate people. Of course, it is very difficult to understand, but this is the science, that there is transmigration of the soul. And if we do not take care of this, that "What I am going to become next life?"—if you simply waste your time simply on the matter of eating, sleeping, mating and defense, then we are wasting our time. This is the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Then he asked,

"ke āmi", "kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya"
ihā nāhi jāni—"kemane hita haya"
(CC Madhya 20.102)

So this is the proposition to the spiritual master, that one must submit that "Actually, I do not know what I am. Am I this body or something else?" I am not this body, that I can understand, because I say, when somebody asks... Even a child, you ask, "My dear child, what is this?" he will say, "It is my finger." He'll never say "I finger," what to speak of others. If every one of us, we say, "This is my hair, this is my nose," then where is "I"? He doesn't inquire "Where is I?" Then there will be analysis of the body, where is that "I"? Everyone knows "my," but who knows "I"? That is education. That is being submitted by Sanātana Gosvāmī, ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. So tāpa-traya means three kinds of miserable condition: ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. Ādhyātmika means pertaining to the body and mind. Sometimes we are feeling some ailments in the body; mind is not in good order. This is called ādhyātmika. And ādhibhautika. Ādhibhautika means miseries inflicted by other living entities. Just like there are mosquitoes, there are flies, there are birds, there are other animals, or other enemies in the human society: my friend has become enemy, so he's trying to give me some displeasure. So this kind of. This is called ādhibhautika. Ādhyātmika: even nobody gives me any distress, my body will give me distress. If I cannot sit comfortably, if there is some pinching, I am feeling pain. So these things are going on, ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. And other miseries inflicted by providence. Just like there is no rain, excessive heat, excessive cold, famine, pestilence, earthquake. We have no control over. These are ādhidaivika. So we are suffering. Although we may foolishly say... If somebody asks his friend, "How are you?" he says, "Oh, yes, everything is all right." Where is "Everything is all right"? You are suffering and... This is called māyā. He's suffering, but he will say, "Everything is all right." A man is dying on the deathbed, and his friend comes, "How you are feeling?" "Yes, I am all right." (laughter) Now he's going to die, and he says, "I am all right." So this is called māyā. They're suffering, but they are accepting, "I am all right." Full of anxieties always: "What will happen next?"

So this is the position. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is placing this plain fact, that ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa (CC Madhya 20.102)... "I do not want to suffer. So there is suffering." That's a fact. Ihā nāhi jāni kemane. "So how I can get out of this suffering, kindly give me lesson." And this is human life. Go to a bona fide guru, try to understand the problems of life, what is the aim of life, how actually we can become happy. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra philosophy, therefore, the first instruction is athāto brahma jijñāsā, Kena Upaniṣad. "Why?" And that is human life. If you remain silent, never ask "Why I am suffering?" then you are in the category of cats and dog. And when this inquiry begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā, then your human life begins. Otherwise you remain in the category of cats and dog. If you are satisfied with all miserable condition of life... In this country, the Western country, they present television, simply presenting problems. That's all. You have got experience. And they are making plans how to solve these problems. This is going on, whole day and night, and twenty-four hours. But actually, we are in a place with problems only. And intelligent man must inquire how to solve these problems. But they are inquiring, some of them, but not in the right channel. That should be in the... Just like Arjuna had problems: whether to fight or not to fight. So he approached Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa," śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7): "Kṛṣṇa, I know that the problems, You can make solution." Arjuna knew that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although He's acting as my friend." But he knew what Kṛṣṇa is, and therefore he asked.

So we are in face of so many problems. Why not approach Kṛṣṇa? What is wrong there? And take Kṛṣṇa's instruction and be happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are opening centers everywhere. Take advantage of this movement and be happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Gurukṛpā: Questions, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Anybody who would like to address some question to His Divine Grace, please raise your hand and stand up, any questions.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: Everything is solved? (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You had a question?

Guest: Is it possible to see Kṛṣṇa right now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to see Kṛṣṇa right now?

Prabhupāda: Why don't you see Him, in your back?

Guest: But can't I just see Him?

Prabhupāda: Well, you have no eyes to see.

Guest: Can't I see Him within?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Why? Why is it not so easy? Why can't each one of us...?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it so difficult to see Kṛṣṇa? Why can't each of us see Him within?

Prabhupāda: You have to become qualified.

Guest: Why do I have to become qualified? Why?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose if there is a big man before you in some big meeting, can you talk with him?

Guest: Why...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all answer this. Suppose there is a big meeting going on, and some big man is present. Suppose the President is there. Can you talk with him? Why? Why you cannot talk? For talking we think you require some qualification. It is not that He's so cheap that you talk with Kṛṣṇa immediately.

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmād
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
(CC Madhya 17.136)

So if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, then you have to qualify yourself to talk to Him.

Guest: By His grace, Kṛṣṇa will show Himself to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you read Kṛṣṇa book and if you believe, then you see Kṛṣṇa. He's not different from the book.

Guest: But we could read words till the cows come home. What good is that going to do?

Devotee: You have to accept what you read. You can't read with an argumentative attitude, or you can't ask questions in an argumentative attitude. You'll never learn.

Guest: I can only accept what I experience.

Prabhupāda: What is your experience?

Guest: My experience is that I have seen Kṛṣṇa with my own eyes.

Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's very nice. (devotees laugh)

Guest: It hasn't been hard.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Guest: I haven't had to read any words.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then you are perfect.

Devotee: Are there any other questions please?

Prabhupāda: Sit down. You are perfect. (laughter)

Guest: We are all perfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Give a chance to someone else.

Guest: I must speak.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But please, you can speak afterwards. Please sit down.

Prabhupāda: You have already spoken. Don't take the whole time. Let others question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Others also want to see Kṛṣṇa. Are there any other questions, please?

Girl: How can we stop speculating?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can we stop speculating?

Prabhupāda: Stop speculation? Don't manufacture ideas. You take what Kṛṣṇa says, then it will automatically stop. Speculation, the question of speculation comes when you do not accept what Kṛṣṇa says. If you accept Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa says, then there is no scope of speculation. That is our movement, that "Accept Kṛṣṇa's teachings as it is. Don't speculate; then it is lost." This is our movement. Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "I am the origin of everything. Everything emanates from Me." If you accept, then it is all right. And if you speculate, you can do that. But our movement is to accept Kṛṣṇa. Brahma means janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), the origin of everything. Here is the person. He says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Accept it. Very simple thing. You are searching after who is the origin of everything, and Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the origin of everything." So if you accept, your question is solved. If you don't accept, go on speculating. There is no difficulty. Difficulty is when you do not accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Then difficulty is. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. And why people do not accept? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gīta: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births' speculation, when one actually comes to the platform of knowledge, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So we don't find many such jñānavān. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā. One who's accepted Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, as everything, that kind of mahātmā is very, very rare to be found. It is not very ordinary thing.

So anyone who's accepted Kṛṣṇa as everything, he is the greatest mahātmā. Most fortunate. And we can practically see in these modern countries, four or five years or utmost ten years, who never heard what is Kṛṣṇa. Now thousand, they are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). You accept blindly or knowingly, the result will be the same. If you touch fire knowingly or unknowingly, it will burn. This is the position. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), the origin of everything, then the action will be there. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. You'll become the greatest mahātmā. And what is the sign of mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). That is mahātmā. He is under the control of daivī prakṛti. As we are controlled by this material nature, a mahātmā is controlled by the spiritual nature. And what is the sign? Bhajanty ananya-manaso, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. This is the sign. Without any deviation.

So these young boys, girls, they're always chanting. That you'll see: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa. They are mahātmās. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). These things are there. Very simple thing. You accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme, you follow instruction, you become a great mahātmā. And if you don't accept,

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
(BG 9.3)

If you don't accept aśraddadhānāḥ, then you'll never understand what is God, and you'll be rotating in the cycle of birth and death. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. You have to accept this path. There are two paths. Either you accept Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead, or you accept the path of repetition of birth and death. Two alternatives in this human life. Now it is up to you to make your choice which way you want to go. (break)

Guest: ...Rupa Gosvāmī and sometime after his demise...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gurukṛpā: After if one becomes purified, is it possible when he becomes transferred to the spiritual world that he can meet Rūpa Gosvāmī and other great...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided you are pure, purified, you can meet everyone. The condition is purified. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. That is stated in the... That is purification. No more sinful life. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). A person is always engaged in pious activities. Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So, so long one is infected with sinful activities, he cannot understand, neither he can surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is also explained by Kṛṣṇa:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

This is the signs. And one who is free from all sinful activities, mahātmā, mahātmānas tu māṁ prāptam daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). This is the signs. If one is not accepting Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa means God—as the Supreme, he's placing himself as the Supreme. Just like so many rascals: "I am God." So such persons are called duṣkṛtina, sinful. Mūḍha. If one is claiming, "I am God," how much foolish he is just you can consider. He is under the clutches of māyā, being kicked up by the material energy in so many ways, and he's thinking he is God. So they are duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. That has been explained.

So this simple language is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. If we actually accept, then our life is...

janma karma ca me divyam
yo jānāti tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mām eti...
(BG 4.9)

So we are trying our bit to understand Kṛṣṇa and to make others to understand Kṛṣṇa. And therefore we have published about eighty-two books, big books and small books. So we request that you either accept Kṛṣṇa without any hesitation, or try to understand Kṛṣṇa by reading all these literatures. And they are being well received all over the world by big, big professors and other exalted persons. So you can take advantage. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Many people have brought dakṣiṇā and things like that. Should they bring now?

Prabhupāda: When they want to do?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking that maybe they could do... It was a little bit too crowded for everyone to come up earlier. Perhaps we could have a kīrtana and I could ask those devotees who brought some offering to bring them.

Prabhupāda: As you say. (end)