760318 - Morning Walk - Mayapur
Haṁsadūta: ...yeah. That's auspicious?
Haṁsadūta: That's auspicious?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Gaura-Nitāi!
Gurudāsa: Gaura-Nitāi. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...moon is going around the earth.
Gurudāsa: (aside:) Three.
Prabhupāda: So why the moon is..., particularly rises from the eastern side? The moon, according to the...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Scientists.
Prabhupāda: The moon is going round like this. So why the moon is rising from the eastern side? It is going around. Why it appears from the eastern side?
Devotee: They say because the earth is spinning on an axis.
Pañcadravida: 'Cause the earth is turning.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a very good question. (laughter)
Gurudāsa: What's the answer, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: So you answer. He has understood.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: According to Bhāgavatam, the moon is not going around the earth. It is revolving around Mount Sumeru. Isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. According Bhāgavata, that is a different thing. But this...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But why the moon should simply follow that same pattern...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...going east to west, east to west? Why not...?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At random. Sometimes rising from the south.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes, perhaps, from the north.
Haṁsadūta: Well, they say it has a fixed orbit around the earth.
Haṁsadūta: It has a fixed orbit around the earth.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who fixed the orbit?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chance.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Chance." Wonderful question.
Prabhupāda: And the sun is also rising from the east. But sun is fixed up, and moon is moving. So why they are coming from the same side?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Wonderful questions. These are wonderful things.
Hari-śauri: Well, they say that the moon..., the moon is actually moving around the earth.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Hari-śauri: And the earth is rotating, and the sun is..., only appears to move around the earth.
Prabhupāda: Is that question answered?
Pañcadravida: Well, they both appear that way because of the turning of the earth.
Prabhupāda: The sun is fixed up.
Pañcadravida: But the earth is turning.
Prabhupāda: Earth is turning, and moon is turning. But why the sun and moon rises from the same side?
Pañcadravida: 'Cause the earth turns in that direction.
Prabhupāda: Just talk if it is proper answer.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why doesn't the moon sometimes rise in the south? Or the north?
Pañcadravida: Because the sun... Because the earth is not turning in the opposite direction.
Prabhupāda: What he is doing on the roof?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no.
Hari-śauri: He's taking photographs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. This boy joined us... (break)
Gurudāsa: ...rather than the chaos.
Pañcadravida: What is the Vedic explanation, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Vedic explanation is that moon is not going round the earthly planet. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is very revolutionary thought.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because children all over the world, in schools, they're taught simply that the moon is going around the earth. They shouldn't question it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they say, "You should not question"?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, should not question it. It's taken as fact.
Prabhupāda: My point is: If the moon is going round the earth, beginning from here to there, similarly, the sun is also going around earth, because we see the similar way, it is rising and going that way. So how you can say one is fixed, one is standing? The process, we find the same. How you can say that this is fixed and this is going around? Why is...? If the process is the same, then the result will be the same. (break)
Hari-śauri: ...accepted the sun was moving, then they wouldn't be able to prove that...
Prabhupāda: And the... And the moon is not seen also for fifteen days in the month (?). As a layman, we should say that as the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, the sun is also rising from this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.
Pañcadravida: If that's true, then how does... What about the changes in the moon's face? Sometimes...
Prabhupāda: True or nontrue, I am layman. I am saying that if the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, so sun is also rising from this side and going to this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Common sense.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, I am a layman. Actually sun is moving, but they say fixed up. (break)
Pañcadravida: ...moving the same, though, the sun..., the moon would always appear full, and it goes through changes, or phases.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why it, the moon, is...? (break)
Jayapatākā: They say that everything is moving. Both the earth is moving, sun is moving and the moon is moving, but everything has got its own time. Moon is moving once around in twenty-eight days, and our earth is moving around in 365 days, and sun is also moving in its own time.
Prabhupāda: But they say sun, fixed up.
Jayapatākā: No, they don't say fixed up.
Pañcadravida: They say there's a point called the galactic center of the universe, and everything is moving around that point.
Trivikrama: They say like that.
Prabhupāda: So what is that center?
Jayapatākā: That they can't find out.
Balavanta: Somewhere near the sun. They've just imagined it. It's close to the sun, but not exactly the sun. It's the center, they say.
Prabhupāda: So our Bhāgavata says the whole planetary system is moving like this...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...centering the polestar.
Jayapatākā: They admit that there's some center of the universe. Everything is going around that, including the sun. But they don't know exactly where it is.
Prabhupāda: That is polestar.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's admitted, that the polestar, the stars are revolving around, everything. They take photographs.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Of the... Everything revolving around the polestar, the constellations.
Gurudāsa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rāhu, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Gurudāsa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rāhu?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The phases of the moon—quarter moon, half moon, full moon.
Gurudāsa: Waxing and the waning of the moon.
Pañcadravida: What's it due to, then?
Prabhupāda: That I should not exactly immediately say.
Gurudāsa: We don't accept.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. Prabhupāda just said, "Not right now."
Prabhupāda: But moon is far away from the sun. That is from Bhāgavatam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Further away. Prabhupāda, there's another question I have. I remember on a walk... I have read in your books that the moon's glowing is due to reflecting the sun. Then I remember on a walk in Vṛndāvana you said that the moon is fiery just like the sun, but there's a cooling atmosphere around it. So is it actually fiery glow, or is it simply a reflecting glow?
Prabhupāda: That is stated in Bhāgavatam.
Gurudāsa: It says reflection in the Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: No, it is also a fiery place. But it is because it is far away from the sun, it is not so glowing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's not a question of reflection only.
Prabhupāda: The reflection theory is the modern theory.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because sometimes in the books it's stated...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes I have said or taken this modern theory.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just so that people will understand an example. I see.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another question is, "How do the different seasons come about—winter, summer, spring?"
Prabhupāda: That is due to the movement of the sun.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The...?
Prabhupāda: Movement of the sun.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Movement of the sun.
Prabhupāda: But they say sun is fixed up.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they say the earth is tilting back and forth like this.
Prabhupāda: That is always doing, but it takes little time. But the movement of the sun, uttarā and dakṣiṇā, what is their explanation?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that the earth is tilting like this. The sun is fixed. When the earth tilts like this in the northern hemisphere there is summer, and when it tilts like this, the southern hemisphere, there's summer. It's tilting back and forth as it revolves around the sun.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they say it is...
Pañcadravida: Well, they say the earth is on a tilted axis.
Trivikrama: Twenty-three degrees from the north pole.
Pañcadravida: So, as it revolves around the sun...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's another theory too.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's two different theories.
Haṁsadūta: It's simultaneously going around the sun, and also, in itself, it is turning. And then it's sometimes tilting on a particular axis. It's simultaneously moving around the so-called central sun...
Prabhupāda: But for six months that, it tilts?
Haṁsadūta: And then it also spins—the globe spins—and then it also...
Haṁsadūta: It has different tilts. It takes different degrees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The tilt is always the same.
Haṁsadūta: And when the sun's rays hit the earth at a particular angle, it becomes cooler or hotter. This is their sum and substance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: While it's spinning, it's not just spinning straight up and down; it's on an axis. So it's spinning like this.
Lokanātha: Yes. It's going around like a ball.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not like this. Like this.
Pañcadravida: It's on an angle.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah. And then it is tilting.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But how does that explain summer and winter?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it's close to the sun in...
Pañcadravida: Because it's close to the sun and... No, it's not closer.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It spins. Every twenty-four hours it's turning. Why should that matter?
Pañcadravida: No, but the orbit around the sun is...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Elliptical.
Pañcadravida: Yes. Elliptical.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, for instance, in Sweden, they have a certain part of the year when it is always dark. So they say this is because the earth's axis has shifted, so that... Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So your work is going to begin today? No?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The work? When will it begin? Begin?
Jayapatākā: Maheśvara told me the work is going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's going on?
Devotee (1): He said some men are coming today.
Jayapatākā: Yes. More are coming today.
Prabhupāda: So they are having no difficulty?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems to be they are enjoying themselves.
Haṁsadūta: On the whole, the devotees don't appear to be falling sick as they have in previous years.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Haṁsadūta: They seem to be well and happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arrangements are getting better every year.
Trivikrama: The devotees are getting better every year.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Pañcadravida: The devotees aren't eating so much and sleeping so much this year.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they don't sleep at all. They get up at one-thirty.
Pañcadravida: Yeah, they're very good. (break)
Jayapatākā: ...make a suggestion before they leave, have a little meeting, how things could be improved. Then next year we could even make it better.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Yes. Make that suggestion.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the earth also spinning?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or is it simply the sun's movement that causes the day and night, everything?
Prabhupāda: No planet is fixed except the sun. All are fixed up. But the whole thing is moving. That is Bhāgavatam. And that you can see at night.
Gurudāsa: What'd he say?
Pañcadravida: No planet is fixed. The earth and sun, they're all moving.
Gurudāsa: The sun is fixed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but they're all moving.
Hari-śauri: But they're all moving.
Prabhupāda: It is like a tree, just like this. This is moving, and the sun is moving, and all other planets, they are fixed.
Hari-śauri: How is it we see the moon coming in every day, then?
Hari-śauri: How is it that we see the moon moving?
Prabhupāda: Moon, that is... Of course, I do not remember, but (laughs) the whole planetary system is moving.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the sun is fixed, but the whole, it's also moving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sun is also moving.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everything is revolving around that polestar?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Everything is moving around the sun, and the sun is moving around the polestar.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. Everything is not moving around the sun.
Hari-śauri: Like that tree, if the tree revolves by itself, like that, then the sun is going around the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: This is also another intelligent.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Hari-śauri: The tree is just moving like that, and the different branches, they remain in the same position in relationship to the center of the tree.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the sun has it's own...
Hari-śauri: But the sun has an orbit around the whole thing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's own course.
Hari-śauri: So the whole universe moves around. Every twenty-four hours it does one rotation. And then the sun goes round all that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Every twenty-four hours?
Prabhupāda: The moon...
Gurudāsa: It seems to be one and different simultaneously.
Prabhupāda: No, no, not like that point. (laughs)
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are the planets shaped liked balls or more like plates? Because it's..., it's hard to understand, 'cause they're called dvīpas, "islands." Their roundness is the roundness of a plate or like a ball?
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Satsvarūpa: The earth planet?
Prabhupāda: If it is like a tree, then these things can be as dvīpa, island.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. You know...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The scientists are getting smashed to bits by your statements, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This destroys their whole theory. Orbs, round spheres. I think that this Māyāpur building, we must build a big planetarium in it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that I am going to do, Vedic planetarium.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, boy. You're going to bring a lot of... A lot of scientists will come here just to dispute this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Wonderful attraction.
Prabhupāda: World people will come to see the way the planetary systems...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should advertise it very widely that this is the actual, factual explanation of the universe.
Prabhupāda: This will be automatically advertised. As soon as the temple is finished, people will come like anything.
Hari-śauri: They're going to need somebody to...
Prabhupāda: The thing is, on principle, we shall only go against them.
Prabhupāda: On principle. (laughs) Whatever they say "Yes," we say "No." (laughter)
Pañcadravida: What is the explanation of an eclipse?
Prabhupāda: Eclipse are... So that Rāhu planet comes to attack the sun and the moon. And when it comes, it becomes dark.
Pañcadravida: How does it attack?
Prabhupāda: How do I attack you?
Pañcadravida: When we see part of the moon disappear, what is actually happening?
Prabhupāda: Happening, that attack... Suppose if I come to attack you and if I am in front, then you cannot see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Like now I can't see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Just like Prabhupāda's... I'm standing behind him, and when he attacks you, I can't see you.
Nanda-kumāra: By the scientists' calculation of what's happening with the revolving, they can predict an eclipse.
Nanda-kumāra: They can say in advance when an eclipse will come.
Prabhupāda: Well we can also predict.
Pañcadravida: Yeah. They predicted Lord Caitanya's appearance.
Balavanta: And five thousand years ago, in Kurukṣetra, they predicted when Kṛṣṇa went...
Pañcadravida: So apparently they can predict Rāhu's attack also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all right.
Gurudāsa: Actually, even the scientists say there is astrological reasons behind Rāhu the planet.
Pañcadravida: So they're predicting five thousand years before the scientists. This is explanation.
Prabhupāda: No, when there was no civilization.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh? They...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is no civilization five thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Three thousand years...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All cavemen.
Prabhupāda: ...before, there was no civilization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I just... I read that recently in an anthropology book, that 3000 B.C., means five thousand years ago, everyone was living in... Especially in this part of the world, people were simply living in caves.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: English propaganda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: English propaganda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had very crude tools for making their things. Practically they were all like animals.
Prabhupāda: So how this literature came?
Hari-śauri: Well, they say that it's not older than 1,000, 1,500 years old.
Prabhupāda: One thousand.... But where are other literatures like that, 1,500 years, in Europe and other places?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No such thing.
Prabhupāda: So only the literatures were here in India?
Pañcadravida: No, they have them. They also have mythology in Greece, and Roman mythology too.
Prabhupāda: Mythology maybe, but so purposeful verses, where is in other country?
Balavanta: Bhagavad-gītā's philosophy...
Pañcadravida: That they can't match anywhere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can a caveman make it, then?
Trivikrama: Each verse, so...
Prabhupāda: Each rich... Is it impossible to compose verses by the cavemen? How foolish they are. Not only that; in Mahābhārata there are 100,000 verses. In Bhāgavata, there are 18,000 verses. In the Purāṇas... Where is such rich literature? If they were cavemen, wherefrom this literature came?
Satsvarūpa: They also said Kṛṣṇa was a tribal chief. But how could He speak such philosophy?
Prabhupāda: How rascal they are.
Pañcadravida: There are a few flaws in the theory. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The best class of men, the Āryans, and they were worshiping a tribal chief. And what was Arjuna? He was also a tribal chief? Arjuna said that "I become Your disciple." So what was he, that he is submitting to a tribal chief? Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And He's teaching Bhagavad-gītā?
Lokanātha: Which is being read after five thousand years.
Prabhupāda: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?
Haṁsadūta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.
Haṁsadūta: What to speak of understanding the content. (break)
Jayapatākā: ...exhibit the farce of modern science.
Jayapatākā: Farce of modern science, and every philosophy and science group, where they are just cheating the public. Then exhibit how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is showing the real way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So do that in this planetarium.
Pañcadravida: That will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: That is.
Gurudāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, a few years ago I presented an exposition, and in that was a planetarium, and also there was an exhibit called "Man's Relationship with God," which was the alternative to modern anthropology, showing how anthropology is not valid and man's relationship with God is the valid thing, and then regulation is the preventative of the disease, is the alternative to psychology or behaviorism, like that. All these exhibitors can be there, showing how science is false and Kṛṣṇa consciousness...
Prabhupāda: So whatever thoughts are coming, you note it. Keep it. We shall utilize it with reference, with reference to the śāstra.
Gurudāsa: Jaya. (break)
Jayapatākā: This special exhibition building?
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata. Take every page of Bhāgavata. And I think every year there should be change.
Haṁsadūta: New exhibit.
Prabhupāda: New exhibit.
Haṁsadūta: Otherwise it will become stale.
Haṁsadūta: 'Cause we have so much material.
Gurudāsa: It should be done very easily.
Gurudāsa: By conveyor belts and...
Prabhupāda: No, here, the doll-makers, they can make dolls within fifteen days—finished. They can do, so expert.
Gurudāsa: That should be life-size.
Gurudāsa: It should be life-size, like walking into the forest of Naimiṣāraṇya.
Prabhupāda: Life-size or not life-size. Three feet, four feet, that will be...
Haṁsadūta: The old exhibits can be sold to the visiting temples. They can take them back to their...
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.
Jayapatākā: BBT... BBT did such nice packing with this modern styrofoam that they could easily move even fragile (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) What is that?
Jayapatākā: They brought the glasslike thing, and they didn't break it, with this plastic foam.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. That plastic bullet is now in motorcar. Even if you fire, it will not enter, the bullet. Is it not?
Gurudāsa: Windows? Plastic in the motorcar?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bullet-proof glass.
Pañcadravida: Yeah, they have bullet-proof glass.
Gurudāsa: They have something in regular cars that if it hits, it won't break.
Hari-śauri: It shatters.
Gurudāsa: And in the cars of big men they have bullet-proof glass. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees... Śatadhanya was asking if there could be a group photograph on the grass this morning after class, for five minutes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...that we are killing vegetables, but actually we are not killing. They are already dead. Hmm?
Gurudāsa: Also there's a verse in the Bhāgavatam that says that there may be a fire on the ground, but the seed underneath the ground is still living. The tops may be cut, but the seed is still living. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...painting he has made?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he would complete it today.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And he'd like to show it to you tomorrow.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Jaya. (break)
Rādhāvallabha: They keep putting their pictures there. I keep taking them off.
Rādhāvallabha: ISKCON Amsterdam keeps putting their pictures up in front of the books. I keep taking them down. They keep putting them up again.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Why you are taking?
Rādhāvallabha: They can't see the books.
Rādhāvallabha: It's not possible to see the books with the pictures up. They can put them down at the end where there is some room. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're dressed in peacock feathers?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're dressed in peacock feathers?
Prabhupāda: The dress, (indistinct).
Gurudāsa: Jaya. Kṛṣṇa Balarāma ki jaya.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Where is that bābājī gone? He's not... (break) (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali conversation) (break) What is this? (Bengali conversation about parikramā) (end)