760226 - Morning Walk - Mayapur
Prabhupāda: . . . no more desire of material enjoyment, he is fit for sannyāsa. Anyone who sees, "Oh, this car is very nice. This beautiful wife is very . . . very beautiful woman is very nice," he should not think of taking sannyāsa. Viṣa-bhakṣaṇād apy asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8): "Such desires is most abominable, more than taking poison." To commit suicide by taking poison is most abominable thing, because he's going to be a ghost. He'll be punished to become a ghost, those who commit suicide. Or, if one is suddenly killed and he has so many desires, he becomes ghost. Therefore viṣa-bhakṣaṇa, taking poison, and die untimely, is most abominable. Or commit suicide. By the material law also, to attempt to commit suicide is criminal. You know that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is criminal. (Bengali) If you take sannyāsa . . . just like there are so many sannyāsīs, for filling up the belly. Wherever you go they give some alms. But in . . . outside India, who cares for the sannyāsī? Then why you should be eager to take sannyāsa and cheat yourself? You cannot cheat others, but you can cheat yourself.
Hṛdayānanda: Outside India a sannyāsī will starve.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I do not know why our disciples are so anxious to take sannyāsa, at least those who are outside. Everyone comes: "Give me sannyāsa." What is the idea?
Jayapatākā: Freedom from authority.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh? Who cares him, for authority?
Jayapatākā: No, they . . . they don't want to take order as brahmacārī. If they're sannyāsī they think they can do as they feel.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to become leaders.
Prabhupāda: So what kind of leader? If you cannot lead others, what kind of leader?
Jayapatākā: That's why a brahmacārī should . . .
Prabhupāda: If you mislead them, if you mislead them, then what is the use of taking leadership?
Jayapatākā: That's why that system where a brahmacārī is recommended for one year and then he proves himself by doing some extraordinary preaching work is a very good system. Otherwise, anyone just comes and by pressurizing and begging and pleading, then they try to take sannyāsa. Then they don't stay to the path.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means ultimate success, because this human life is meant for becoming disgusted with this material life: "No more." Material life means to take a body and enjoy this material, āhāra-nidrā, sleeping twenty-four hours, eating like elephant, and sex life like a monkey, these animals. This is material life: eating, sleeping, mating, and always afraid of. This is material life. And human life means to take freedom from these four things: no more afraid, no more sex, no more hankering after eating or sleeping. That is success. Everyone . . . you'll see in the sparrow in the morning, they're enjoying sex. So this is material life: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca (Hitopadeśa 25). And spiritual life means to become free from all these nonsense. That is spiritual life. They do not know what is spiritual life. The whole world, they do not know what is spiritual life. This is spiritual life, to become free from these four abominable things.
Hṛdayānanda: They are trying to increase these four things.
Prabhupāda: That means cheating themselves. What is the use of taking sannyāsa and cheat yourself? Material life means punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly doing the same thing. Either as human being or as monkey or as a small ant or the demigods, but doing the business is the same, four things: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. In different scale, doing the same business. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaḥ, "again and again," carvita-carvaṇānām, "chewing the chewed." If one is sober, he thinks that "These four business, I have done many, many lives, as sparrow, or as jackal, or as demigod, and I have got this human form. Again I am doing this? So what is benefit of this human form of life?" This is sense. "I got this valuable life, and I am still doing the same thing as dogs and cats and sparrows? Then what is the difference between me and the dogs?" That is sense. "What is my better engagement?" That better engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then his life is successful. Otherwise what is the use of? Again become a sparrow. Again wait for millions of years to come by evolutionary process to the human form of life. You see? This is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Because they cannot control the sense, they are going in the darkest part of this material existence.
Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it seems that in youth the desire to enjoy is so much stronger than in old age.
Dayānanda: It seems that in youth it is . . . the desire to enjoy is stronger than in old age.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. An old man is still stronger, but instruments are finished. He cannot enjoy, but the desire is there. You don't think that old man has got less desire than the young man. He has got the desire, but his instrument is finished.
Hṛdayānanda: So much frustration.
Prabhupāda: No. He cannot use the instruments for enjoyment.
Hṛdayānanda: So he's frustrated.
Prabhupāda: Frustrated? Everyone. Whether young or not, everyone is frustrated. He says that the desire in old man . . . it is expected, because he has gone through the gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. That's all. It is not needed. But those who are unable to avoid it—"All right, have some for time. Then become sannyāsī." This is the process. It is not needed. So in old age, after going through these stages—brahmacārī is learning how to stop this sex life—and then, if one is still unable, "All right, take concession for twenty-five years, then give up this habit. Then take sannyāsa." So that is the process, one who has gone through the stages, expected that he has no more . . . āra nāre bapa: "I have done . . ." But generally, those who are not trained up, their desire is not diminished. They have got the . . . that you see in your country, Western country. Seventy-five, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub.
Prabhupāda: Paying hundreds and thousands of dollars. Where is the . . .? He has lost all capacity, but still, he'll go. Still, he'll go. This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). In the club, the son is also dancing with the girl, and the old father is dancing, and by chance, they come in contact. The Western civilization is for this, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, eat voraciously, and all become diabetics. They have got diabetes club, association. That means . . . what is this? Diabetes is the result of voracious eating. That's all. In old age it becomes very prominent because he eats voraciously, but he cannot digest. And all these foodstuffs becomes . . . what is called? Glucose?
Prabhupāda: And then diabetes. The beginning—āhāra, eating. That gentleman, that doctor who has given us that review, he has. He's very learned man.
Indian devotee (1): Mr. Shannam?
Prabhupāda: No, no. From France.
Devotee (2): The professor.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. He has mentioned, "From the Vedic standard, we are all uncivilized. We Westerners are uncivilized." He has admitted that. Actually they are.
Dayānanda: Yes. They will be shocked when they find this out, because the idea is that . . .
Prabhupāda: Now, just like a man is suffering from tuberculosis, and if his physician says that "You are attacked with tuberculosis," then he'll shocked. But the fact is there.
Dayānanda: They think that the Vedic culture is uncivilized.
Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swāmījī, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.
Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want . . . become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?
Devotees: Six-thirty. (break)
Jayapatākā: . . . process.
Jayapatākā: So is it necessary to be fixed up to take sannyāsa, or one should take sannyāsa to become fixed up?
Prabhupāda: To become fixed, become sannyāsī, the other three processes are there: to become brahmacārī, to become gṛhastha, to become vānaprastha, stage by stage. But if one is able, he can take sannyāsa. The stages are there, but if one is very competent, he can be given sannyāsa. And that competency is also very simple. If you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can immediately become competent. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as you fully engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately you become more than a sannyāsī.
Jayapatākā: Your Divine Grace is so merciful because the Western people, they are habituated to so many bad habits which weren't existed . . . existing in the Vedic time amongst the higher classes. Still, you are introducing all these things for them. Many times devotees, they don't take that seriously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati (Upadeśāmṛta 3). What is this? (break) . . .our field or some other field, but food must be there. If you don't eat sufficiently, how you'll be able to work? Yuktāhāra-vihārasya (BG 6.17). We are not after dry speculation. Practical. Eat sufficiently. Work sufficiently. Don't be lazy. But the danger is if you eat more than sufficient, then you'll sleep sufficient. Therefore yuktāhāra, as much as you require, take it. Don't take more; don't take less. This is the law of nature. Just like salt. You salt require. But if you take more, it is useless, and if you take less, it is useless. If in the vegetable the salt is more, then it is uneatable; if it is less, uneatable. Take as it is. It is not that "Because there is ocean of salt, let me eat three pounds' salt." That is going on. "Oh, it is available? Now let me eat." And then he becomes sick.
Dayānanda: For somebody who can work more, then he can eat little more?
Dayānanda: If somebody can work more, then he can eat more.
Prabhupāda: No. Work more and work less doesn't matter. If he's actually hungry, he can take. Work must be there. If he does not work, what is the use of eating?
Jayapatākā: This program . . .
Jayapatākā: The difficulty that every person has not got the same mentality. One . . .
Prabhupāda: That . . . that will depend on the preaching of the sannyāsīs. What is this? Frame?
Devotee: It's a hot-iron building, Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: It's the wrong type of renunciation.
Prabhupāda: There is no renunciation. There is sense gratification: "I like this." That's all. He is thinking that "I am so renounced," but he's still satisfying his senses. That's all. As soon as we manufacture something, that is sense gratification. "I want to fulfill my desire. That's all." That is sense gratification. It may be I sit down on the tree, or I may sit down on the palace. That is sense . . . the basic principle is sense gratification. The other day I was talking about hīrā-cora and kṣīrā-cora. Hīrā means diamond. And kṣīrā means . . .
Prabhupāda: "I shall steal. I shall steal one cucumber." And another one thinks, "If I steal, I shall steal diamond." But the stealing propensity is there, hīrā-cora or kṣīrā-cora. "Well, I am stealing one . . . only one cucumber. That is not very dangerous." But . . . but to the eyes of law, both of them are criminal, either you take hīrā or kṣīrā. Big thief and small thief, that's all. Thief. You are thief. So we manufacture concoction, that "Yes, I have got this stealing propensity. So I'll not steal diamond, I'll steal kṣīrā, not hīrā." This is only mental concoction, but he is a thief.
Jayapatākā: I think this side's better.
Jayapatākā: So gṛhastha life is Kṛṣṇa allowing us to steal kṣīrā?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes, kṣīrā-cora. The prostitute-hunter is hīrā-cora, and he's a kṣīrā-cora. That's all. (break)
Hari-śauri: . . . sense gratification that comes from renouncing like that, that's like the Māyāvādīs.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Hari-śauri: By artificial renouncing everything, they're actually simply another form of sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Not artificial. It is a process. We have to give up this sense gratification, go through a process to trained up. Just like sometimes in the club there is artificial swimming. Is it not?
Hari-śauri: Or running.
Prabhupāda: Artificial swimming. That is not swimming, but to practice something.
Hṛdayānanda: Or the . . .
Dayānanda: But sometimes people who renounce like that, they become very proud. What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hmm.
Jagad-guru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are you pleased when your disciples do things like that?
Jagad-guru: Are you pleased when your disciples do things like that . . .?
Jagad-guru: Well, such things as Sharma Prabhu's doing.
Prabhupāda: I do not know. What is that? What is his question?
Devotee (2): He asked if you're pleased if your disciples do things like Sharma, if they, like, go to live in trees and do artificial renunciation.
Prabhupāda: No, he's trying. That's all. But active service is more important.
Hṛdayānanda: Hmm. That is your example.
Prabhupāda: But something is better than nothing. If he goes . . . goes away to practice somewhere else, better give him chance to practice this. He's not doing anything bad. That is good. That is . . . but the better service is to be active servant, servitor.
Hari-śauri: That's your mercy on us.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personally He gives example. He could have done at His home. Why He took sannyāsa and went out of home?
Devotee (3): We have one boy at the temple, Prabhupāda, and he doesn't want to do any work. He simply reads, and he says that "I will not do work now, but when I become realized by reading," he says, "then I will engage in work."
Prabhupāda: No, no, he's reading. That is working. If he's . . . but he is sleeping, that is another thing. In the name of reading, sometimes we sleep. If that is not done, it is all right. He's reading. That's all right. But if he shows that "I am reading," but he's sleeping secretly, that is bad. To see that he's not sleeping, he's actually reading.
Indian devotee (4): He's Life Member also, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Anyway, if he's doing something, that's good.
Hari-śauri: I read where you said that if one simply reads, though, one cannot become realized in the philosophy. One has to actually do something practical, and then the realization will be there from what he has read.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Jayapatākā: . . . are nondifferent.
Jayapatākā: Service and reading are nondifferent?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if one is actually reading. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was reading. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau (Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 2). But he must be expertly reading, not as a bookworm. Expert.
Jayapatākā: And on the other hand, sometimes devotees are only engaged in service, and then, without reading, and then they . . .
Prabhupāda: But every, everyone . . . you cannot expect everyone is capable for reading.
Jayapatākā: They have desire to read, but they have no opportunity. And then in their service, they become . . . they lose sight sometimes, where they, because of fallen condition, they cannot remember Kṛṣṇa in their service. But while reading, one is easily . . ., cannot help but remember Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: If he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa, he will sleep. That is the test. When you have someone is reading but sleeping, that means there is no Kṛṣṇa. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra (CC Madhya 22.31). Sleeping is māyā, so if he's thinking of Kṛṣṇa, so there cannot be sleeping.
Jayapatākā: No, I'm talking not about the reading half, but the service half.
Prabhupāda: Service also. Everything depends on advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa is there, either you read or work as a coolie, the same thing.
Jayapatākā: You instructed that service is as good as reading, but only . . . we see that devotees only doing service without reading, then they become agitated in their mind.
Prabhupāda: That means there is no Kṛṣṇa. The real disease is there is no Kṛṣṇa. So then he'll be agitated, either reading or working.
Jayapatākā: So how can they, the Kṛṣṇa . . .?
Prabhupāda: That, if they . . . one must go through this practice. Everyone must attend the ārā . . . maṅgala-ārātrika. One must attend this. One must attend this. Otherwise no prasādam. If one says, "I am sick," no prasādam. "You are sick. You cannot digest. That's all." And sick, sleeping, and at the time of prasādam, voracious eating, that is not sickness. If you are sick, you cannot take food. Don't take. (end).