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760102 - Morning Walk - Madras

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760102MW-MADRAS - January 02, 1976 - 24.51 Minutes

Prabhupāda: What is the time now?

Pañcadraviḍa: (indistinct) . . . 6:35.

Prabhupāda: (break) . . . fire, explain.

Harikeśa: Oh, because people can't see life in fire, they think there's no life in it, so therefore there's no life in the sun. But it's just like the Tata factory. When you see it from a distance there's many flames and fires, but inside there's many people who are working. Therefore just because you can't see life in fire doesn't mean it's not there. We see life in the earth, we see life in the water, we see life in the air, so why not in the fire? Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Now question, answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, one question is that the people in the Tata factory are not actually in the fire.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not actually in the fire.

Prabhupāda: So they are also not in the fire. I say even if it is in the fire, there is no harm, because the living soul is not burned to fire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Adāhyo 'yam (BG 2.24). Dāhya. Dāhya means burned. It is not burned. These are wrong conception. Because they have no conception of the soul, they think bhaṣmi bhūtasya dehasya: "When the body is burned, then the soul is also burned." If the soul is burned, then where is the question of tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? How? In the Hindu system they burn the body. So if the soul is also burned, then where is punar janma? You?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can accept that the soul is not burned, but what about the body?

Prabhupāda: Body is burned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can anybody live in the sun?

Prabhupāda: So they are . . . no, if . . . they have got fiery body. As your body is made of earth, the fish body is made of water, and the so many others, different elements, so similarly, there the body is made of earth . . . er, fire, fiery body. The so-called scientist, educationist, they . . . everything they conclude according to his own position. Therefore avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). They think Kṛṣṇa also "like me."

Acyutānanda: The fish is in the water, but the fish is not water.

Prabhupāda: No, fish is not water, but he has got a body suitable for the water.

Acyutānanda: So the people on the sun have earthly bodies . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: . . . who can tolerate heat?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no heat. They live . . . just like . . . they are not suffocated. They don't feel any inconvenience. They enjoy. Against the waves they enjoy. You cannot go against the waves. They can go, even small fish. You'll find within this there are so many animals, so many. How they are living?

Acyutānanda: Also, science cannot explain how it is burning. Where is the fuel supply?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Acyutānanda: And there is no smoke, no waste.

Prabhupāda: Nothing. They are all . . . therefore we say simply "rascals." We have given this title to them everlastingly. All rascals, mūḍha. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). How Kṛṣṇa is working, they do not know. This is Bay of Bengal. Other side is Burma. (break) . . . they are so strong, it will never be drowned. Eh? Kabhi dubta nahi. (It does not get drowned.)

Indian man: Ye drown ho jata hai . . . (It gets drowned . . .)

Prabhupāda: Pani bhar jata hai baki dubta nahi. (It gets flooded but does not go underwater.)

Indian man: Dub jata hai ye. (It goes under the water.)

Prabhupāda: Dub jata hai? (Does it get drowned completely?)

Indian man: Ha. (Yes.) (break) The scientist says there is no life. Just disagree with them.

Acyutānanda: No life?

Prabhupāda: Scientists, yes, they say there is no life in the sun.

Acyutānanda: In the sun.

Prabhupāda: No, they say in every planet there is no life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, only the earth planet.

Acyutānanda: Well, they have to qualify. They say: "Life as we know it."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: They say, "There is no life as we know it," but there's some forms of life that they don't know.

Prabhupāda: So, but no, no. "As we know," but what do you know? You are rascal.

Devotee: They are trying by radio waves to reach people.

Prabhupāda: Sab jagah pe jiv hai. Sab jagah. (There is life everywhere. Everywhere.) Sarva-ga, this word is. Sarva-ga. Jivatma sab jagah hai. (Living entities are present everywhere.)

Devotee: (break) . . . sending radio signals to faraway galaxies.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of their radios? Do you think that their radios are perfect? Do you think so? What, Acyutānanda Mahārāja? Radio perfect? It is not perfect.

Acyutānanda: And I think the demigods and higher beings, they can disturb all their radio attempts.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that . . .

Acyutānanda: Because they don't want trespassers.

Prabhupāda: . . . how you can accept their radio machine are perfect? Because it is made by imperfect person, so how it can be perfect? If the manufacturer is imperfect, how he can make perfect machine? Nothing is perfect.

Acyutānanda: Actually, the United States government has a whole agency for unidentified flying objects that people have seen that they keep secret so as not to frighten the whole America thinking that visitors from other planets will come. But there are many incidents of pilots who fly around in airplanes who see other strange-looking objects coming at them, flying at them, or people from the ground have seen many.

Devotee: One guy testified that he was picked up and taken away for four days.

Acyutānanda: Well, that was . . .

Prabhupāda: What they are? They are police? No. Mounted police?

Acyutānanda: Yes, mounted police.

Prabhupāda: A mounted police here?

Acyutānanda: Saber. Sword.

Devotee: Oh, it's a stick.

Acyutānanda: Oh, yes, lāṭhī, made like a stick. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why they are guarding here?

Acyutānanda: I think for the horses.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're exercising the horse.

Acyutānanda: (break) . . . house in Bengali. Is this where Swami Vivekananda . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. After coming back from foreign countries, he made his position here in Madras.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Beautiful building.

Acyutānanda: In Calcutta we have a Life Member, Veni Shankara Sharma? You stayed at his house?

Prabhupāda: Hmm, yes.

Acyutānanda: So he wrote a book called An Unknown Chapter of the Life of Swami Vivekananda. And in there he openly says that he smoked a hookah and ate meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is known to everyone.

Mahāṁsa: He also had one boy who supposedly . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was he praising that?

Acyutānanda: It was . . . you know . . .

Yaśodānandana: In Hyderabad there is a cook who used to cook for the Ramakrishna Mission, and he said they used to cook any kind of meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: I said: "Did you ever cook human meat?" He said, "If they told me, I would have done that also." There was nothing beyond their diet. "Anything they told me to cook . . ."

Prabhupāda: This building belongs to Vivekananda's society, no? Vivekananda House.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that?

Acyutānanda: That's Bengali. "The house of Vivekananda."

Prabhupāda: Ye gadi ap kaha se kharida tha? (Where did you buy this car from?)

Indian man: Ye mera nahi hai. Ye dusre ka hai. (This is not my car. It belongs to someone else.)

Prabhupāda: Accha, dusre ka hai. (Oh, it belongs to someone else.)

Acyutānanda: They say Swami Vivekananda walked barefoot all over India at some stage of his . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: That . . . this statue here is his life as a wandering sādhu.

Prabhupāda: Who is a sādhu? Then question is who is a sādhu? Who is a sādhu? You cannot say?

Acyutānanda: One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Api cet sudarācaro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Unless one is cent percent Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is not a sādhu. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇa.

titiksavaḥ karuṇikaḥ
suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām
ajāta-śatravaḥ santaḥ
sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇaḥ
(SB 3.25.21)

This is sādhu.

Yaśodānandana: This is the vehicle in which we travel.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yaśodānandana: This vehicle is the vehicle in which we travel to all the different cities for making the Life Members and arranging all the programs in South India, this vehicle.

Prabhupāda: This is your own?

Yaśodānandana: We are renting.

Prabhupāda: When I was in South Africa . . .

Indian man (1): South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Johannesburg. This beach reminds me of that beach. You were with me?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All statues are crying here.

Acyutānanda: This is Annie Besant. No?

Prabhupāda: (break) . . . avatāra here, and she also came from Ireland to become avatāra here.

Acyutānanda: I heard how she became interested in the Gītā. She was Christian, and her infant died. So she asked priests, "Where will this soul go, to heaven or hell? And why? Because he hasn't done anything." So she was never satisfied with their answers. So then she heard that there is transmigration of the soul. Then she became interested in the Gītā, India.

Prabhupāda: So did she understand?

Acyutānanda: Well, only up to transmigration of the soul.

Prabhupāda: She admits.

Acyutānanda: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: It was open? Is there are any doubt? (break)

Indian man (2): . . . all practical things . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (2): . . . political things. Two and two will always be four. But we people don't agree so far.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You want five.

Indian man (2): (laughter) We want five, correct. Four to make it five.

Prabhupāda: There is a story that a grocer's son was doing business, and when he was given a five rupees note, so he was giving four rupees. So the customer said, "Why you are giving me four rupees?" "No, I do not know what is the exchange." "No, it is six rupees." So "No, father will be angry." (laughter) Means he knows perfectly well what is five rupees, but he is innocent when he was giving four rupees. And when the customer wanted six rupees, he, "No, my father will be angry." (laughter) (break) . . . created a havoc by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, all people. According to their whims, "Five rupees note means four rupees," by imagination, they have created havoc all over the world. Otherwise everything is there. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). If we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then whole world becomes immediately happy. But they will not take it. They will manufacture their own: "Two plus two equal to five" or "three," not exactly to four.

Indian man (3): So all anxiety and duḥkha have been created by the man himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have created.

Indian man (3): Nobody else is doing for him, but he created himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): And then he said; "I am in misery. I am in trouble." Trouble is created by you. Nobody has else created.

Prabhupāda: So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that mind is the enemy and mind is the friend. So we created our mind, enemy or friend, and we suffer for that.

Indian man (3): Mind is very, very powerful. How to make use of that? Actually, mind is using the man; man is not using his mind.

Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata it is said, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). In another line . . .

Harikeśa: Harāv abhakta?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇaiḥ: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asato dhāvato bahiḥ: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahiḥ. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world.

Indian man: Naam japan se bhi man pe control to hota hai. Naam japan . . . (The mind can be controlled by chanting the holy names of the Lord. By chanting the holy names . . .)

Prabhupāda: To naam japta hai do minute or twenty-four hours? (Is someone chanting only for two minutes or twenty four hours?)

Indian man: Wo alag hai . . . (That is different . . .)

Prabhupāda: . . . alag hai. To usme kya hoga? (. . . different. What is the use of that?)

Indian man: Concentration hona chahiye. Japan me bhi . . . (indistinct) . . . naam me bada fayda to hai . . . (There must be concentration. In chanting . . . (indistinct) . . . there is tremendous benefit in chanting the holy names of Lord . . .)

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes. Naam japne se to hota hai baki kirtaniyah sada harih. (Chanting the holy names is beneficial but kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.)

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
(CC Adi 17.31)

(break) . . . Nectar of Instruction. Abhi recently publish hua. Usko thoda padhiye . . . (It has been published recently. Please read that . . .)

Indian man: Kal pustake apki bikri hogi bol rahe the, kahi dekha nahi. (You were saying yesterday that your books are going to be sold but I did not see anywhere.)

Prabhupāda: There were no book for sale?

Indian man (4): Book was not in sale yesterday.

Mahāmṣa: That book is not available in India, Prabhupāda.

Acyutānanda: It's a brand new-book.

Prabhupāda: No, no, other books, they are not . . .

Mahāmṣa: Other books were there. They were on the book table. There was a book table.

Indian man (4): Where it is?

Mahāmṣa: Many people were purchasing books. Ap gaye the na bich me na. (You went there once.)

Indian man (4): (indistinct background discussion) . . . chalo aj bhi to hai, aj hai. (. . . no problem, it is there today as well.)

Prabhupāda: Prominent place me rakho. (Keep in a prominent place.) Keep in prominent place so that others can see.

Yaśodānandana: Should be right at the entrance.

Prabhupāda: And any book which is not in stock, you can note down his order so that you can send him later on.

Indian man (5): He will come every day.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (5): Mostly he approaching every member.

Prabhupāda: No, recently we have published very important book, Nectar of Instruction. For common man it is very nice. (break) Yesterday's lecture you liked?

Indian men: Yes. Kitna digest kar sakta hai us pe depend karta hai. (It depends on how much one is able to digest.)

Prabhupāda: Saral bhav se to bola tha. I presented it in a very simple way.)

Indian men: . . . ha lekin phir bhi to mind . . . itna also concentrate nahi . . . (. . . that's true but still the mind . . . concentration is little weak . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ha, disease hai na. Kuch bhi . . . pani bhi hazam nahi hota hai. Kabhi kabhi aisa hi ho jata hai. (Yes, the disease is there. Sometimes even water cannot be digested. Such is the severity of the disease.) (break)

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: . . . sleep on the streets. They've arranged this housing. It is very minimal. So what many of these slum-dwellers do when people are living on the streets is they come here, and they go back and live on the streets, but they rent out the apartment that the government has given them, and they keep the money. They go back and live on the streets.

Indian man (1): This houses there? This is all rented by the government and given free of charge to the poor to clear the slums.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
kālena sarvatra gabhīra raṁhasā
(SB 1.5.18)

Jisko dukh bhogna hai, wo makan kar dene se kya, wo bhogega. Yehi foolish attemp chalta hai. Jo duniya me . . . (One who is destined to suffer, will not be able to enjoy even if provided with a house. This is the foolish attempt going on. In this world . . .) three classes of men are there: upper class, middle class . . . you cannot change it. It is laws of nature.

Indian man (1): Upper class ho kar bhi dukh to hum bhogte hi hai. Mansik klesh bhogte hai. (In spite of being upper class people, we have to suffer. There is mental distress.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, nahi. Dukh to sabhi ko bhogne hi padhega. Ye jo jaise . . . Vivekananda philosophy hai, daridra-narayana. Daridra ko Narayana bana diya. Narayana aise ban gaya ye. Ye sab manufacture hota hai. Samjhe na. Ap dekhiye na, isko Narayana nahi, gentleman bana nahi sakta aur ye Narayana bana diya. Dekhiye kitna bada murkh hai. Ek gentleman nahi bana sakta. Je accha ghar me raho, rasta me kyu padhe ho. Wo sab Narayana ban gaya. (No, no. Everyone has to undergo suffering. Just like Vivekananda's philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa. He made a poor man into the Supreme Lord Nārāyaṇa. Such things are being manufactured. Do you understand? Just see, they cannot make him into a gentleman but they are branding him as Nārāyaṇa. What a fool he is. He can't make the poor man into a gentleman by convincing him to stay in a proper house instead of lying on the street. Such people are turning into Nārāyaṇa.)

Indian man (1): Naam dene me to mushkil ka baat nahi hai par lekin usko badalna padhega. (Giving a name is not difficult but the person has to be actually transformed.)

Prabhupāda: Yehi sab murkhta chal raha hai na. Jo vastavik baat nahi hai, wo sab deta rehta hai. (This foolishness is going on everywhere. Instead of speaking the truth, they are manufacturing this nonsense.)

Indian man (1): Man ko badalna, wo to shastra hi de sakta hai, guru . . . (Changing the mind is possible only with the help of scriptures, spiritual master . . .)

Prabhupāda: Idhar ka baat chodh dijiye, humara India ka government. Europe, America me hippies, wo bhi rasta me sota hai aur usko government kitna bolta hai, tum kyu rasta me sote ho, ao accha jagah me raho. Wo jata hi nahi. (What to say about our Indian government, even in Europe and America, the hippies are lying on the street. The government is telling them to live in a nice place instead of sleeping on the roadside but they won't go.) He is destined.

Indian man (1): Unke paas paisa kami thode hi hai. (They have no shortage of money.)

Prabhupāda: Uske paas paisa kam nahi hai America me. Ye hippies log ko government kitna khushamadi karta hai, acchi tarah se raho. Wo nahi jayega. (They have no scarcity of money. The government flatters these hippies so much to make them live nicely but they won't go at all.)

Indian man (2): Wahi baat hai. Ye log makan . . . (This is the problem. These people take the apartments . . .)

Prabhupāda: Wahi hai. Jaise vistha ka kira hoti hai, usko udhar se la karke accha jagah me rakh do, nahi, wo udhar hi jayega. (That is the issue. Just like a worm in the stool will again go back to the stool even if it is kept in a nice place.) How you can change this?

Indian man (2): Ye bhi log isko dusre ko bhare me deke phir apni jhopri me a jate hai. Ap jo baat rahe the . . . (These people are also renting out their apartments to others and returning to the slums.)

Prabhupāda: Phir bhara ka jo rupaya milta, wo sharab piyega. Isliye to . . . (Then they will drink wine with the money obtained as rent. That's why . . .) first duty is, first of all enlighten them with knowledge. That is required, not by external bodily comforts. Jisme dukh hai, usko zabardasti koi sukh nahi de sakta. (Nobody can artificially supply material comfort to a person who is destined to suffer.) (break) duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ . . . aiye baithiye (. . . please come and take your seat.) (gets into car) (end)