750929 - Morning Walk - Ahmedabad
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Kartikeya: The outside of garden may not be open . . .
Brahmānanda: Park gate is closed.
Kartikeya: We can walk on the road.
Prabhupāda: All right. When it is open?
Kartikeya: Normally six. (break)
Prabhupāda: Jo hai mandāḥ. (They are foolish, all bad men.) Mandā sumanda-matayaḥ (SB 1.1.10). And if he is supposed to be a good man, he will manufacture some mata, manda-mata, not approved by the śāstras. This is going on. They will not hear Kṛṣṇa. They will give quotation from the Brahma-kumārī. This is the greatest defect of modern civilization, that they won't accept real authority. They will create some authority. Or rascal, he becomes authority. Especially in India, this is the drawback. In the Western countries they do not know much about this. Therefore they accept what I say. But here they bring so many. So such an important man, he is bringing authority Brahma-kumārī, a house of prostitution. If he is bringing their quotation as authority, then what to speak of others? (break) Just like that Christian convent house. They supply woman to rich men, and they supply money. That's all. This is the Brahma-kumārī. Rich man, the same disease is there—yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). So if they get facility for some maithuna, they will give you money. Aaj kal ladki log ka shaadi hota nahi aao ji idhar aao, chalo bus, vo convent house. (Nowadays girls don't get married—come here, let's go. That's all—that convent house.) Hmm Brahmananda, is a convent house? What is a convent house? It is not prostitution? That's all.
Brahmānanda: Usually it's between the priests and the nuns.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that?
Brahmānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: This is . . . when Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You do not know that?
Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.
Prabhupāda: That what . . Gandhi said: "What is this āśrama?"
Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi . . . he is well known, very well known.
Prabhupāda: He is well known.
Indian man (1): Including Mahadev Desai and all, there were lot of complaints and counter complaints.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It cannot be. You cannot stop the sex unless you are fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. And that is the material bondage. In the material prison house they have got so many means—big, big walls, handcuff, chain—but nature is so perfect that simply give you a beautiful woman and you are all prisoner. Big wall, handcuff and chain—everything is complete. I think I have discussed in my recent purports.
Harikeśa: Oh, yes, yes.
Indian man (2): Even in case of Mahadev Desai, it was a classic incident, that his wife came one day to Gandhiji that, "This man is your personal writer, but he is going on with another woman in your camp."
Prabhupāda: There are so many.
Indian man (2): "And he comes only because of that woman. Otherwise he is not willing to be your personal writer. So I have complained." Then Gandhiji said, "All right, when did you know it?" So she said, "I was thinking for the three months, but fifteen days before I came." "All right, Mahadeva, you come here. You will fast for fifteen days." And one week later Mahadev Desai decides that he wanted food very badly. So after seven days he was about to die. Then that woman, wife, came again, "Mahārāja, I made a mistake. I made a complaint. All right. But now this man will die, and my Sowbhagya. (Fortune (her husband).) will go?" Then she said why have you made a complaint? So you can take over for seven days, but you fast for seven days." So he is relieved.
Prabhupāda: One—there are so many cases. This Lilavati Munshi, this is the same thing. You know that? There is a big history behind this.
Kartikeya: The failures are due to some basic reason. All the big people have failed, and they have not been able to deliver the country or anything because their moral character . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, even they have delivered the country, these physical elements you cannot avoid.
Kartikeya: Correct.
Prabhupāda: You cannot avoid unless you are on the transcendental platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you are on the physical platform, you cannot avoid. It is impossible. Koi bhi ho. Yeh bhi Gandhiji ka mistake tha jo. (Let it be anyone. This was also Gandhiji's mistake . . .) which on physical 'Oh, you have done this fifteen days' fasting? It maybe anyone.
Indian man (1): What is alternative? What do you do when . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, alternative, that alternative will not correct. That is the defect of Gandhi's movement. He is supposed to be reading Bhagavad-gītā, but he has never said, recommended, Kṛṣṇa worship. That is the defect of his education. Rather, he denied the existence of Kṛṣṇa, "I don't believe if any person as Kṛṣṇa ever lived." This is his concept. Gandhi has written in his life that while his father was dying he was enjoying sex with his wife. You know that?
Indian man (2): Yes. Gandhiji said that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has written it.
Indian man (1): It is, after all, only . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. After, he became a great sage. That is all right. But in the beginning everyone is subjected. (aside) Which way we shall . . .
Kartikeya: We can go straight.
Prabhupāda: Dekho na kitna parishram kar rahe hain. subah se cycle lekar ke phata kapada mei kyon utna takleef kha rahe hain, wahi sex, aur kuch nahi. Aur unka happiness kya hai. These boys, milkman, paper wala, kitna parishram. Bahut dukh ka baat hai. Yeh to sex secure karne ke pehle aur phir jab shaadi ho gaya aur sex ho gaya phir to aur double, double cycle chahiye. Aur inka desh mein, paschim me yeh sab dekhke shaadi karna hi chod diya. Shaadi karna chod diya aur baki wo sex jayega kahan to vyabhichar ho gaya sab Idhar to kuch restriction tha ki shaadi karke sex karo kuch restriction hai wo udhar wo sab restriction nahi hai, sab divorces. Woh biwi ka laddoo jo khaya woh bhi pachtaya, jo na khaya wo bhi pachtaya. To jo shaadi kiy wo bhi pachtaya aur jo nahi kiya wo bhi pachtaya, biwi ka laddoo. (Just see. From morning he is working so hard, taking his bicycle in torn clothes. Why is he taking so much trouble? Sex and nothing else. And what is their happiness? These boys, milkman, paperman—so much hard labor. It is a very sad thing. This is before securing sex, and then when marriage is over and sex is satisfied, then double—requires double bicycle. And in the Western countries, they saw all this and gave up marriage. They gave up marriage but still, where will the sexual instinct go? So they became characterless. At least here there is restriction, that you get married and have sex but there, there is no restriction—all divorces. That saying: "Woh biwi ka laddoo jo khaya woh bhi pachtaya, jo na khaya wo bhi pachtaya." So one who gets married, regrets it and one who doesn't get married also regrets, "Biwi ka laddoo"). Brahmānanda, you take this idea. We shall construct the gurukula in this pattern.
Brahmānanda: This building here, double story.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Double or three-storied.
Kartikeya: Most simple type.
Prabhupāda: Very simple type, very nice. Just get a sketch with your work. This will be done like that.
Brahmānanda: I'll ask Bhārgava. He has his camera. He can take photographs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And downstair, all shops. Only the road side. Other side . . .
Brahmānanda: Oh, no. That's the courtyard, and then other side, a building. (break)
Bhavānanda: . . . at the gurukula best thing is outdoors classes. As soon as they're in rooms it gets too hot.
Prabhupāda: As far as possible, outdoors.
Bhavānanda: Best place in Māyāpur is on the verandas of the big building. It's perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice.
Brahmānanda: They have verandas on this building?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is veranda that side.
Brahmānanda: On the inside or the outside?
Prabhupāda: No. No. Inside. Outside closed. (break) . . . no that reinforced concrete. All brick. This is all brick. Pareshan karte hai, loha le aao, cement le aao, wo le aao, uska permit lo, usko nahi milta hai, wo bhi cement me kuch aur cheez de diya aur bada jhanjhat hai. (They are troubling a lot, get iron, get cement and then bring that —take a permit for that. Then he doesn't get it and he also mixes something in the cement—very troublesome.) You have got that brick manufacturing concern near?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Take as many bricks as you like. And we have got one address, you have taken, Agra, they will supply this lime. (break) Aadmi sab patit ho gaya, bade-bade aaadmi, (Man has fallen, big big people, rich men,) still, they are adulterating cement. Shabaab ho gaya. Ye nahi ki garib hi khali chor hai. (It has reached a peak. It's not that only the poor are thieves.) (break) I heard it from very reliable source, my teacher. He was second teacher in my school, graduate, very good gentleman. He said that Edward VIII, er, VII, he was stealing jewels. You see?
Indian man (3): A very bad habit.
Prabhupāda: Emperor of British Empire, and he was a thief. Just see.
Brahmānanda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) . . . one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry, I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. (break) It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?
Kartikeya: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: We can enter. Not the cows.
Indian man (4): Physical world, this earth is there. Are there any other earthly planets of this type where human beings or other beings are staying other than spiritual beings?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian man (4): Why the information is not given about that?
Prabhupāda: Why not? In Bhāgavata there is all information.
Indian man (4): About the other earthly planets also?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All, every each and every planet: Janaloka, Tapoloka, Maharloka, what kind of men are living there, what they are doing—everything is there. Svargaloka.
Indian man (4): But do they not come here sometimes to visit us or we cannot go there?
Prabhupāda: But you cannot see them. Your philosophy is unless you see, you don't believe. That is your philosophy. But you do not consider what you can see. That is the defect of this imperfect world, that people do not think that they are imperfect. With all imperfectness, they think they are perfect. That is the defect. Therefore it is said, andha. One is blind, and he is becoming the leader of other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantrya, by the laws of nature, he is bound up very tight, hands and legs, and he is thinking he is free to think, free to see, free to . . . that is the defect. He is not at all free, completely under the clutches of material laws, and he is thinking that he is free. That is the defect. And when this sense come, that "I am not free; everything is forced upon me," then he becomes human being. Otherwise he's a dog. Just like, you see, if a dog thinks he is free. He is jumping here, there. He is thinking, "I am independent," barking, attacking somebody. Oh, he is thinking he is free to do everything. When one comes to this sense, that he is not free, that is beginning of human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Then the question will be that "Why I am not free? What is the reason?" Then that is, real human life begins. Otherwise he's a dog. Is it correct or not? What do you think? If one is not free and wrongly thinks that he is free, then what is that mentality? A doggish mentality. And if I say: "Yes, you are free. You can think in any way you like, that is correct," then you become more encouraged to become, to remain a fool, to continue. That's all. (aside) So we shall go now? That is the defective part of modern civilization. Everyone is thinking, "I am free." Is it not? Everyone.
Indian man (5): Yes. "I am perfect. I am like this."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (5): He thinks who is living under the delusion.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, Sixteenth Chapter. "I am . . ." Aḍhyo 'smi dhanavān asmi ko'sti mama samaḥ, "Who is there like me, intelligent? I will do this. I will do that." These are all . . .
Indian man (5): Continues delusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has imposed death that, "You may make your plan as free man, but you'll not be allowed to stay. I'll kick you out." These poor men, they did not think of it, that, "I am making so nice plan, but at any moment I'll be kicked out. So where is my freedom?" Dull brain does not think of it. A prisoner, if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? A prisoner, in prison, and if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? So that they do not think. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has grouped them: mūḍha, these rascals, mūḍha. They conduct freedom movement. Just like in our country also, before this British Empire or this Muhammadan Empire there was no knowledge about this freedom. Indian people never thought of freedom. They know that, "We are not free. Where is the question of freedom?" These things have come from the foreign countries, "freedom movement." What is freedom? Where are you free? You are completely under the laws of nature. Where is your freedom? So they were thinking of greater freedom, to get out of the clutches of the laws of nature. That is real freedom. What is this freedom? From frying pan to the fire? (chuckles) Now we have come freedom means from frying pan to the fire. Formerly there was one viceroy. Now in each state three dozen viceroys, and you have to maintain that. So many legislators, so many secretaries, so many ministers. All, they are sucking our poor blood. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you approach them for some grievances, "All right, give me application," and, after six months, "No." So we are maintaining for this purpose? Yes. "I say no." That's all. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) . . . speaking of freedom, but we have no freedom even to stay in this body.
Indian man (6): Yes. That is not our plan.
Indian man (5): Somebody else is controlling that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We learn that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This is my position. I am eternal. So why I am obliged to accept body which is hanyamāna?" These questions do not bother them. And where is my freedom? "I am eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. "I do not die after the destruction of my body." Then why I am put into this body which will be destroyed, which will become old, useless? And where is my freedom? These things do not bother them, and they are reader of Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man (6): Somebody told that they are made to come here . . .
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (6): Is it the sin of some of the . . .?
Prabhupāda: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So why I am put into this body, which is hanyamāna? (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes. Yeh sab question aata hi nahi hai, aisa fool hai. Isliye wo general kar diya 'mudha'. (All these questions don't come at all, they are such fools. That's why it is generalized as mudha.) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative, 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.'" So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do"—here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you see. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things, then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge that, "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi? Then? Where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that, "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt (BG 12.7). Samuddahartā, just to deliver them from this ocean of mṛtyu-saṁsāra. That is not care. Real freedom is given by Him—that you don't care. (break) . . . will be given by Kṛṣṇa. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." Yeh sab sochta hi nahi. (They don't think this.) (break) . . . is there, there is no question of freedom. (end)
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