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750925 - Morning Walk - Ahmedabad

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750925MW-AHMEDABAD - September 25, 1975 - 29:27 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Society has lost this saṁskāra process; therefore they remain in the animal platform. Janmanā jāyate śūdra saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ. When a person is born even in human society, he remains a śūdra. Śūdra means almost like animal. Now he has to be reformed. That is called saṁskāra. Then twice-born. The first-class twice-born is brāhmaṇa. Second-class twice-born is kṣatriya. And third-class twice-born is the vaiśya. And remaining, who cannot be reformed, they remain śūdra. But there is cooperation between brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and the society makes progress simultaneously for everyone. That is human society. At the present moment mostly all of them remain śūdras or less, caṇḍālas. So how there can be any peace? It is not possible. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, maybe a few vaiśyas only. They are also half-reformed. And European culture, that is caṇḍāla culture, yavana culture. There is no reformation, no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, simply śūdras and caṇḍālas. Mostly caṇḍālas. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is means for thoroughly overhauling the whole human society. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you.

Brahmānanda: They think it is freedom to be able to do whatever you feel, whatever you want.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, where is your freedom? You are kicked out like football from one life to another. Then where is your freedom, rascal? That they do not know. Therefore they are śūdras. He is being kicked out like football from this pole to that pole, and still he is thinking, "I am free."

Brahmānanda: They think reformation is a restriction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reformation means restriction. Civilized means restriction. Āryan means restriction. That is civilized life. Unrestricted life means cats and dogs. Laws are meant for restriction, and they are meant for the human society, not for the cats and dogs. Why the legislative assembly is there? Why the cars are going right or left? It is meant for the civilized person, not for the cats and dogs. So civilization means restriction. A dog can have sex life on the street, but you cannot have. That is restriction, because you are civilized. Civilized means restriction. The more you restrict, more you become civilized. Otherwise you remain animals.

Brahmānanda: They say that these things are simply external.

Prabhupāda: External, but you are animal. (laughs) You cannot understand. You see? Mūḍha. "External." Why external? You violate the laws of nature, immediately you'll be punished. Why external? You infect some disease, you'll be immediately punished. Why external? It is the law of nature. You must have to follow; otherwise you'll be punished. You have got experience. If you touch fire . . . (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you touch fire, then it must burn. Why? Can you restrict the fire? Similarly, laws of nature is so strict, as soon as you violate. . . laws of nature means God's nature.

Brahmānanda: But by our technology we will change the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science—what is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). One sane man should consider that, "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime. . ." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī that, "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality, "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature. Hmm? Can you?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Brahmānanda can. (laughter) He is strong enough. Kartikeya, you can do it?

Kartikeya: No, I can't do it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kartikeya: We depend upon nature, so we can't counteract.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible. It is all foolishness.

Kartikeya: We can go this small park.

Harikeśa: It's a nice park?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Harikeśa: We go through?

Kartikeya: We can go through.

Prabhupāda: Now these rascal Westerners, there the women claiming equal rights. Change that the man will give birth to a child and not the woman.

Kartikeya: Equal right.

Prabhupāda: Equal rights. Make agreement, "Once you beget, once I shall." (laughs) Make this contract. Then it is equal right. If the woman has to give birth to a child and she has to suffer all the pains thereof, then where is the equal right? Eh? Where is equal right? Nature has said: "You must suffer." The husband, the so-called husband, will give birth, er, will utilize you for sex satisfaction, and you will be pregnant, and he will go away and you will suffer the whole life to maintain the child, welfare—"Give me some money"—or this or that. Where is equal right? He is free. He has gone away. Huh? This is general experience in the Western countries.

Brahmānanda: "Unwed mothers."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And she cannot also check that, "I shall not become mother." For sex appetite she will agree, and the man will go away and she will suffer. Is that civilization?

Brahmānanda: Each year there are over one million abortions.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Brahmānanda: In America there are over one million abortions.

Prabhupāda: And they are advanced. They are proud of their being advanced. And they will not suffer? So we are trying to save the whole human society from rascaldom. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You see? This is nim tree. There is many nim trees. If they kindly accept and follow this movement they will be happy. Otherwise they are doomed. Let them suffer. What can I do? Thorough overhauling.

Kartikeya: Small pond they have made, fill up with water.

Brahmānanda: Woman carrying a water jug.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What the women answer about this pregnancy, that the man enjoys her and he goes away?

Brahmānanda: They resent it.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you accept? Why you agree?

Brahmānanda: Well, more and more now the women are not having sex with men anymore. They're having sex with other women.

Prabhupāda: Then the population will stop? Will the population stop anymore? Then where is the proof? Just see how foolishness.

Harikeśa: Sometimes they argue that only a small. . .

Prabhupāda: This is argument. This is argument; that it is not fact. Let them. . . women has agreed not to have sex with man. Then close all these maternity hospitals. That is the only happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The husband and wife, they, I mean to say, mix together only for this, especially in this age. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. They get married only for sex pleasure, not for any other purpose. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. Otherwise the purpose is husband and wife together, they will worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa and become perfect. That is the description given in Puṁsavana. You will get the statement there how the husband and wife is advised to worship Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. Therefore you will find in Hindu culture, every family, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa worship, the husband and wife. Still there are. . . there is some glimpse of human civilization in India. So we can revive it. (pause) In Bhogilal's house there is no dog.

Kartikeya: No, no dog.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Otherwise, in modern civilization, such a nice house without a dog is incomplete.

Kartikeya: He doesn't believe in it. He doesn't keep.

Prabhupāda: Is it not? Yes. There must be a ferocious dog. Then it is complete. I saw in one house in Bombay, Mr. Gupta, he has kept half a dozen big, big dogs. He's a very big man in the iron market.

Indian: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You know him?

Kartikeya: No, we sometimes meet when we. . . meetings are there.

Prabhupāda: We shall go or turn?

Harikeśa: Maybe we should go back to the park again.

Prabhupāda: The European parks, they do not allow to sit down on the grass. Do you know that?

Kartikeya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In Paris I was trying to sit down on the grass floor. Immediately some policeman, "You cannot sit here." Bench. You can sit down on the bench. So here we think we can sit down little, eh?

Indian man: Yeh wali. (This one.)

Prabhupāda: Kyon yeh wali kharab hai? (Why is this one not proper?) There?

Kartikeya: You can go in. (Gujrati conversation) (break)

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break). . . tamarind tree?

Kartikeya: Acacia.

Prabhupāda: Acacia. Gum.

Kartikeya: Gum. These are like imli.

Prabhupāda: Tamarind.

Kartikeya: Tamarind. (break)

Prabhupāda:. . . saṁskāra means education. Saṁskāra means education. (break)

Kartikeya: No water.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Kartikeya: There was water, but they're not started again. (break)

Prabhupāda: There is scarcity of water in Gujarat.

Kartikeya: Yes. Except Surat. Surat city has no problem. Tapti is there. . . (indistinct). . . has got no problem. Narmada is there.

Prabhupāda: No, here is also the river, Sabarmati. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Kartikeya: Here is Mr. Bhagwati. He's. . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, he is our old friend. Tabiyat thik hai? (Are you keeping well?)

Mr. Bhagwati: Aap to nahin padharne wale the. (You were not expected to come.)

Kartikeya: Pehle nahi tha. (It was not there earlier.) It was arranged afterwards. He has come yesterday. Today also program is there.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has got his house, Naranpura

Kartikeya: Naranpura.

Prabhupāda: Naranpura. (break) United Bank, there was one Bengali manager, maybe Mr. Chatterjee.

Kartikeya: In Ahmedabad?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. He's our good friend.

Kartikeya: You must have met last time?

Prabhupāda: No, before that.

Kartikeya: But he must be transferred, I think. Normally they are having the transfer.

Prabhupāda: You can inquire it.

Kartikeya: Chatterjee.

Prabhupāda: Chatterjee or Mukherjee. Maybe Chatterjee. Bengali. So if he is there, you can say that, "Bhaktivedanta Swami wants to see you."

Kartikeya: Correct. Han ji. Aap sab yahin hain kya? (Yes sir. Are you all here?) But can they not come at the function? (Gujrati) (relating answer to Prabhupāda) He says some friends are coming at some time, so can you meet them? We can just go back, and if you want to walk or something?

Prabhupāda: No, no more.

Kartikeya: Okay. (Gujrati) Because we are coming every day morning. The park opens at six o'clock, I think. This park opens at six. (to Prabhupāda) They form a club in the park when they come in the morning. They have morning party of talking. Otherwise they can't meet during the day. Somebody's a doctor, somebody's. . . (break)

Prabhupāda: We can meet if they give us time.

Kartikeya: Tomorrow we shall. If we start little late, we can meet at seven. (break) Lot of parrots. Millions of them.

Prabhupāda: No, as there, in India at least.

Kartikeya: No, here they've got more greenery, more trees. More food available. More agriculture is around.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They're taken care of. (break) This Basu is a Bengali. . .

Kartikeya: B. Vasu.

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Kartikeya: He's a municipal commissioner.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I.A.S, I.A.S, yes, government officer. (break). . . from government side?

Kartikeya: Government side. There is no mayor in Ahmedabad now.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why?

Kartikeya: There is some difficulty, so they have abolished the post for the moment.

Prabhupāda: No post is required.

Kartikeya: Only for applying the people.

Prabhupāda: Simply it is prize post. Nobody does anything. Simply they draw salary. All these ministers, they do nothing. Just like Indira Gandhi is supposed to be very big plan-maker. So what she has done for the people? (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Ayiyega aap shaam ko. (You come in the evening.)

Harikeśa: Whenever we have to go to a government office, there are six men sitting, and only one is doing work, and all are getting salaries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Last time we stayed where? Nearby?

Kartikeya: Mehtabhai Patel's. It is a little bit away from this place, only one mile from here. That Dr. Patel, and another Dr. Patel is there. Mehtabhai.

Prabhupāda: His father-in-law?

Kartikeya: Father-in-law. P. M. Patel. (break) They were trying to arrange if you'll come. (break)

Girirāja: One boy said he wants to join.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should join. All will go to hell. That is not good. At least one or two may be saved. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Viśatā tamiśram. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ (SB 7.5.30). When we say that they'll go to hell, it is not our manufacture. The śāstra says.

Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)