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750702 - Morning Walk - Denver

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750702MW-DENVER - July 02, 1975 - 37:20 Minutes

(in car)

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So bullet expected also? (laughs)

Brahmānanda: All great leaders, they live in constant fear.

Prabhupāda: Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt (SB 11.2.37). Everyone, animal up to the king of heaven—always fearful. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca (Hitopadeśa). So fearfulness is one of the qualification of conditioned soul. Yesterday you were putting forward the logic "machine." Machine, we also accept. In Bhagavad-gītā it is mentioned, this body is machine, yantra. Yantra means machine. So at the same time, you said "growing." Do you grow machine, Ford car?

Ambarīṣa: Do they grow? No, they . . . (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Then how the analogy is perfect? Machine it is. That is accepted. Kṛṣṇa says. That is undoubtedly, it is machine. It is nothing but machine. So machine, at the same time, he says, "It grows." How it can be comparable?

Brahmānanda: The body is compared to a machine.

Prabhupāda: Not . . . It is machine, not compared. It is machine. Actually it is machine.

Brahmānanda: But then it cannot grow, because a machine does not grow.

Prabhupāda: No.

Ambarīṣa: So it is changing every second.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this is a car, machine, but if I want a bigger car, that means another car, not this car is growing. Suppose sometimes you get baby car. That is not sufficient; I want big car. So you cannot say that increase the baby car and it becomes a sedan car. That means you require another, big car. A child, a child cannot have sex in that body. The same child, when he wants to enjoy sex, he must have another body. So these rascals, they cannot understand how different machines has been supplied by nature. It is supplying.

Ambarīṣa: Yes, I think it's . . .

Prabhupāda: As soon as you want another machine, immediately it is . . . Svābhāvikī bala-kriyā ca. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8). His potencies, his merit, is acting. Not his merit; means the nature's merit, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27), it is working so swiftly, you cannot see. The same example as I give always, that the movies spool, each is a different picture, but when it is put into the projector, you cannot understand. But actually on the background there are different pictures. So if ordinary, I mean to say, cinematograph, cinema picture, we can make like that, how much nicely and subtle machine is there, it is being done—that you do not know. But each body, each second, you are being supplied a different body.

Brahmānanda: Like each of the different frames.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: On the film, each frame is different.

Prabhupāda: Is different.

Brahmānanda: Each picture. But what appears to be a complete . . .

Prabhupāda: So in one picture you will find hand is here, another picture hand is here, another hand is here. But when they are taken together, it means the hand moves. The example is there. Each picture is a different picture. As soon as you stop it, the hand is here. That's all.

Ambarīṣa: So each second the body is a little different?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Each second the body is different. But what this rascal will do? How they will know? They have no brain. All dull-headed materialistic, mūḍha. They cannot understand this. But this is the process going on. I want, for certain thing, I want a different body. Immediately nature supplies.

Yadubara: Even within this body?

Prabhupāda: Why within? Another body you cannot see. Not within—without. Another body supplied.

Ambarīṣa: Sometimes when people are put into a dangerous situation, they acquire extraordinary strength, just like that, that they never had before. So it's like they . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. You must expect according to your quality. Just like if Kṛṣṇa wants, He can make something else. But you are not independent. You are dependent on nature, and your position is very insignificant. But Kṛṣṇa can, as soon as He wishes—immediately done. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva. Just like in Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation.' There was creation immediately." But you cannot do that. But if you . . . Whatever you are desiring, nature is supplying you. Kṛṣṇa is also being supplied by nature; that is spiritual nature. And you are also being supplied by the material nature. So both nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra . . . (BG 3.27). Each stage is a different form. That is going on.

Ambarīṣa: The scientists say that every seven years the body . . .

Prabhupāda: Not seven years. A medical man says every moment the blood corpuscles are changing.

Ambarīṣa: Are different?

Prabhupāda: Yes. New blood cells are coming into being. So you cannot say machine growing. That is fallacious. A machine, new machine.

Ambarīṣa: New machine, jaya.

(on walk)

Prabhupāda: As soon as I want a smaller car . . . Not smaller car; I want bigger car. Smaller car also—that is change. Whatever you deserve. You desire; at the same time, you deserve. First deserve, then desire. Just like these rascals, "I desire to become God." That kind of desire will never be fulfilled.

Yadubara: It's according to the qualification also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your position is very minute. So you can desire up to that limit, not that you can desire "I become complete, universal." That is the defect of the Māyāvāda. "Because I am equal . . ." So 'ham. "Because I am qualitatively one, therefore I am one in every respect." A drop of ocean water, if he desires, "I become ocean," that is not possible. But a drop of ocean water contains the same ingredients as the big Pacific Ocean. So in your quantitative proportion, if you desire, that is your perfection.

Brahmānanda: Understanding one's position.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: That's sensible. (break)

Devotee (1): Like in the Tenth Chapter it's talking about . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm, not come very near. Yes?

Devotee (1): It's talking about the . . . that Arjuna saw the universal form, all these universes and all that. So does that mean like you were talking that one can't become a universal being, but he can see the whole universe? Can you explain how that is?

Prabhupāda: How is that? You can see the universe; that does not mean that you can become universe. You can see the sky; that does not mean you become as big as sky. (break) . . . small, minute shining sparks, minute combination. So they are also shining, but that does not mean they can become as good, as big, as the sun. (break) . . . the defect of the Māyāvāda philosophy. They think of themselves too much. Therefore they remain here, always in māyā. (break) . . . abuddhayaḥ, means the intelligence is not purified. They are called aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ or viśuddha (SB 10.2.32), "without purification of knowledge." (break) . . . kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmād-aṅghrayaḥ. They fall down. (break) . . . this symbol?

Harikeśa: Some fountain.

Prabhupāda: No, there are some children, symbolic.

Brahmānanda: They're looking at the water. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . written, "Danger." Now they are going to the safety. What is danger, there is that safety. Now, what is danger and what is safety?

Brahmānanda: That means it is relative.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is relative. Therefore it is called relative world. (break)

Brahmānanda: It's according to the body. Because the duck has a particular body, the water for him is safety, and because we have this particular body, it is dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Devotee (1): . . . true that when you become more purified that you will see everything differently with your eyes and hear everything differently with your ears and all these?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): We won't see things the way we perceive them now, right?

Prabhupāda: If you are suffering from cataract, how you can see distinctly? You have to get your eyes operated. Then you can see. So our bhakti process is simply purifying, purifying, more, more, more. When you are completely purified, you see God face to face, eye to eye, talk with Him, play with Him, just like cowherds boys, they are playing, the gopīs are dancing. You get that position. (break)

Yadubara: . . . you said in the Bhāgavatam, speaking about Dhruva Mahārāja, that his senses became enlivened.

Prabhupāda: Senses are there. It is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). The bhakti process is completely, complete process to purify you. Other process are not. Karma, jñāna, yoga cannot purify you cent percent, but bhakti process can purify you cent percent.

Harikeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what's the difference between a Brahmavādī and a Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: That you already questioned. We answered.

Harikeśa: I did?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) . . . vādī means those who are aspiring to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence.

Harikeśa: And Māyāvādīs, they do not attain that impersonal realization?

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī remain fools forever.

Harikeśa: They never leave this material platform.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They have no knowledge. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), always impure. Otherwise how they are thinking, so 'ham: "I am same. I am God. I am moving the sun, I am . . ." Such rascals, they remain always in ignorance. (break) . . . no sense that "If I am the same, then why I have fallen down in this māyā?" They say, "It is my līlā. I have become dog, so it is my līlā. I have become hog; it is my līlā." (laughs) This is their philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Māyāvāda. They are fools, mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, they are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māyāvādī means māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Fools. Either you call them fool or call them lowest of the mankind or the most sinful, whatever way you can call, they are like that. All good qualifications. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169): "If you hear from Māyāvādī, then your spiritual life is finished." It's so dangerous.

Harikeśa: The Brahmavādīs have some possibility of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Harikeśa: What is that thing that enables them to advance?

Prabhupāda: That you will know later on. First of all try to understand this. Don't try to understand everything in a moment. That is foolishness. (break) That argument is clear?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The, if you call it a machine, how the machine can grow?

Ambarīṣa: The machine is changing at every second.

Prabhupāda: You say two things: "growing" and "machine." So that is incomparable. Machine cannot grow.

Ambarīṣa: Jaya. (break)

Brahmānanda: . . . many machines. You get another machine, another one, and another and another.

Prabhupāda: So I have changed so many machines, so death means another machine. Where is the difficulty?

Ambarīṣa: When the spirit soul leaves the body, the body continues to change? It deteriorates?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Spirit soul is changing machine. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So when this machine is finished, and another machine.

Ambarīṣa: The old machine continues to change after the spirit soul leaves? It deteriorates? The old machine deterior . . . it breaks down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. You give up one machine and you take another machine. (break)

Devotee (1): . . . one goes into a subtle machine?

Prabhupāda: That example is given, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like your dress, when it is useless, you throw it away and take another dress. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya gṛhṇāti naraḥ aparāṇi. You accept another set of dress. Clearly explained. (break) . . . also very scientific. Just like according to your last life's desires, you have got this dress, this body. So it is going on, going on, going on. Now you are creating another set of desires in this life. So you require a different dress. Then you begin another satisfaction of your desires.

This is going on. Karmāṇa daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1): by your karma, you are creating a situation. Just like the criminal, he has created a situation; he cannot live anymore outside the jail. "Come on, here." He will go in automatically. So they do not know how nature is working. It is clearly said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). "Nature is working, and that nature is working," mayādhyakṣeṇa, "under My superintendence." Everything is there. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Jagat: it is changing, always changing. How it is changing? Under the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.

Devotee (1): Only Kṛṣṇa is doing everything then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is not like you, that when you are given some business, you become embarrassed. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and you. He never becomes embarrassed.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it true that our advancement in devotional services . . . Is it influenced a lot by our past karma, how many sinful activities we have committed?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Bhakti is not under karma. Bhakti is under your good will. If you accept to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you can do that without being checked by anything else. Simply you have to will, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa. You are asking me. So long I did not do. From this day I do." That will depend upon you.

Devotee (2): Not that if I was more sinful, I would make less advancement than somebody who is more pious.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be, you simply surrender and everything is finished. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ . . . (BG 18.66). Even if you are sinful, Kṛṣṇa will give you release, "All right. You have surrendered. That's all right." That is wanted. If you reserve something and cheat Kṛṣṇa, "Now I am surrendering," Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent: "You have still reservation. No." (break)

Devotee (1): . . . it's easier to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in sattva-guṇa one can see, one can understand his position. (break)

Devotee (2): Does he experience the miseries of the gross body when he's in sattva-guṇa, in the mode of goodness? Does he experience hunger and thirst, those things like that?

Prabhupāda: Gross body means no hunger?

Devotee (2): When a person's in sattva-guṇa, he's not so much feeling the pain . . .

Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) . . . you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you.

Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) . . . hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) . . . world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.

Brahmānanda: In India will you find?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Brahmānanda: Perhaps only in India will you find people in . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, some. That is also deteriorating. (break) The sattva-guṇa . . . The Māyāvādī, they are also supposed to be in sattva-guṇa, but mixed with rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Therefore not pure.

Devotee (2): You were saying that when one is in the mode of goodness, that he is on the mental platform?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Does that mean that he's not . . . He's experiencing the subtle body inside of the gross body, or what does that mean exactly?

Prabhupāda: Mental platform is mixed sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa—not pure. But if you keep always Kṛṣṇa in your mind, then you are purified. The mind has no other opportunity to keep anything else. Kṛṣṇa is sitting there, then guarantee. (break) . . . they keep always seeing Viṣṇu form within the heart. Therefore they keep in sattva-guṇa. Similarly, if you keep Kṛṣṇa, then you are in sattva-guṇa. And when that concentration on Kṛṣṇa is not disturbed, then it is śuddha-sattva. That is spiritual platform. (break) . . . ekādaśī?

Nitāi: It's Saturday, the 6th.

Devotee (2): What does the yogī perceive when he cuts off the outer senses, he finally reaches the . . .

Prabhupāda: Perceive?

Devotee (2): What does he experience when he cuts off the outer senses and is able to . . .?

Prabhupāda: Outer senses, what do you mean by outer senses? Dead?

Devotee (2): His bodily senses.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of outer senses. Senses purified. What do you mean by outer senses?

Devotee (2): The senses with which you perceive the outer, gross . . .

Prabhupāda: So that always remains. But when it is not purified, you perceive material things. When it is purified, you perceive spiritual things.

Devotee (2): So the same gross senses will be able to see spiritual things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is purified. Bhakti is the purifying process. I have already said. Not that the eyes are suffering from cataract disease, "Pluck out." That is Māyāvādī philosophy.

Devotee (2): What does that mean, then, when the yogīs withdraw their senses from the objects, like it says like the tortoise withdraws his limbs within the shell? What does that refer to, then?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that? I do not follow.

Brahmānanda: He asks, in the yoga system, Kṛṣṇa says . . .

Prabhupāda: Yoga system means always see Supersoul. That is real yoga system. Perfection. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yoginaḥ, being meditating and seeing the Supersoul, this is yoga. Not that he does not see. He is seeing Supersoul. He is seeing nothing else.

Devotee (1): He doesn't see with the gross senses . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): He doesn't see the Supersoul with the gross senses, though, does he?

Prabhupāda: Pure senses. He does not . . . Impure senses and pure senses.

Devotee (2): How can you tell when your senses are getting purified?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): How can you tell when you're making progress in purified senses?

Prabhupāda: You will understand Kṛṣṇa more and more. So long your senses are not purified, you will not understand clearly what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) . . . understanding Kṛṣṇa means detestful to the material world, attached to Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). (break)

Devotee (2): Is it true that eventually by this process we'll become purified so we can become like śruti-dharas?

Prabhupāda: That you will see when you become purified.

Devotee (2): Then we will actually attain that condition, then.

Prabhupāda: Try to become purified. Don't imagine and guess, "What will be the condition when I am purified?" This is all nonsense. Try to become purified.

Devotee (2): Then you perceive it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: You tell the story of the potter. He has many pots. (Prabhupāda laughs) And he tries to imagine what it will be like when he becomes very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense, waste time. (break) . . . you are eating you will understand yourself, "Yes, I am eating. I am getting strength, I am getting satisfaction." But simply theory . . . "What will happen after eating? What will happen?" You eat and you see what is happening. What is the use of asking this question? You eat and you will understand. (break)

Brahmānanda: . . . Harrison, he wrote in his Preface that "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So he recommended everyone to take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . daily, guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā, what is that?

Nitāi: Cittete koriyā aikya.

Prabhupāda: Ār nā koriho mane āśā. So guru, your guru has said that "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, observe these rules." Do that, don't speculate, and you will understand everything. (break) . . . daily

guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, ār nā koriho mane āśā

No speculation. Do it.

Devotee (1): Can you explain exactly what speculation means?

Prabhupāda: Speculation means thinking, "What will happen? Maybe like this, maybe like this." That is speculation. (break) . . . speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this. Kṛṣṇa may be like this." That is speculation. When Kṛṣṇa appeared before you, you see, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is like this." That is wanted.

And if you speculate, "Kṛṣṇa may be like this," it is all nonsense. Come to the stage when Kṛṣṇa will appear before you, and you will see what is Kṛṣṇa. Be qualified to that position. Māyāvādīs, they are speculating simply, "God may be like this." Why "God may be like this"? God is factual, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. (break) . . . plane crash took place in John Kennedy?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So such a big . . . Simply by touching the electric wire that becomes . . .

Brahmānanda: Well, they were towers.

Prabhupāda: Uh?

Brahmānanda: They were towers, I think, steel towers, two hundred feet high, so they were pretty sturdy, and it hit four of them.

Ambarīṣa: There was some bad weather.

Brahmānanda: And then it toppled over.

Prabhupāda: No, in bad weather, towers, but simply by touching, such a big machine became in fire. (laughs) Unsafe everywhere. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). Every step, there is danger.

Brahmānanda: One of our devotees, I was speaking to him. He was formerly in the air force, an electrician. And he was saying how there are so many wires in an airplane, and actually, when he was electrician, they would put the wires together very hastily in order to get the job done. And he said one of those wires could go wrong and then . . .

Prabhupāda: Finish everything.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Brahmānanda: He said the tendency is when you have a job is that you try to find some shortcut.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So everyone is looking for that some shortcut, how to do it quicker, faster. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . working sincerely? Nobody. In the material world they cannot work sincerely. (break) . . . experienced when any enterprise goes under government supervision, it immediately spoiled. Nobody work sincerely. When it is a private concern, one is sincere because it is his business. If it goes wrong, he will suffer. But when it is government concern, they become irresponsible. That is the experience. Immediately, "Oh, my service is secure. I cannot be kicked out suddenly. So I may do or not do." This is going on.

Ambarīṣa: In Russia they will shoot you if you do not do it.

Prabhupāda: Well, but there is the tendency, "Do not do." Therefore there is shooting. (laughter) How can you check it? Then communis . . . (indistinct) . . . (end)