750527 - Morning Walk - Honolulu
Śrutakīrti: (introducing recording) The following is Śrīla Prabhupāda's morning walk conversation in Honolulu, Hawaii, on May 27th, 1975, on Waikiki Beach.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break). . . and the water. (Hindi). (break). . . and one fourth land, and we are puzzled with the increase of population. But there is no puzzle, three-fourths water population. Wherever you go, you get immediately many thousand fishes. So just imagine how many fishes are there. These rascals say "overpopulation." Why not overpopulation there? Huh? The fishes, for want of food they are dying and floating? Why overpopulation? All their calculation are simply bogus. There is no question of overpopulation. Even. . . Just like people simply can live on mango and coconut. Where is the question of overpopulation? It is chastisement. When one cannot get proper food, that is not due to overpopulation, it is due to godlessness. As soon as people will become godless, nature will chastise them—no food, no rain, suffer. This is law.
(break). . . signpost.
Gurukṛpā: Private property.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Everything is private. Nobody. . ., nothing belongs to God. This is their idea. (break)
Gurukṛpā: . . . mountain?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the timiṅgala, they are as big as this mountain.
Gurukṛpā: I wouldn't want to meet one of those.
Prabhupāda: You can go, and you will find in his belly. (japa) (break) You think simply small fishes are there? As the ocean is big, similarly, very, very big fishes are there. (break). . . up. Remain deep in the water. (break)
Gurukṛpā: A very dark condition.
Prabhupāda: Why dark condition? They are living very happily.
Gurukṛpā: It's dark in the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: No, not dark. They have got their light. Everywhere arrangement is there. Otherwise, how they can live?
Gurukṛpā: It's also very cold in the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Cold for you, (laughter) not for them. (laughs) Everything, these rascal scientists consider in relation, relatively. But relative world means every living being is relatively existing with a condition. And he is thinking only his relative condition. That is their foolishness. You cannot fly in the sky; a small bird will fly. That is called relative world. For his condition, it is different from you.
Śrutakīrti: They've done filming at the bottom of the sea, and they've seen many of the fish at the bottom of the sea, in the deep portions, they make their own light. From their bodies they have light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like down this planet there are dark. . . There are many other planets, Talātala. . . They are dark. The sunshine does not go there. But there are serpents who has got big, big jewels on the hood. That makes the light.
Manasvī: Maṇi. They're called maṇi.
Prabhupāda: Ah, ah. (break). . . kim asau na bhayaṅkaraḥ (Nīti Śāstra). "A serpent decorated with jewel, is it not ferocious?" Similarly a bad man, even if he is so-called learned and scientist, he is also ferocious, demons. Bad man means who does not recognize the supremacy of God. Bad. Demon.
Bali-mardana: The scientists say that in the beginning of the planet there were only little bacteria and algae.
Prabhupāda: His father, his great-grandfather. The scientists' great-grandfather, bacteria. Because from that bacteria his father developed and he was born, so therefore the bacteria his great-grandfather.
Bali-mardana: Yes, they say that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Then how you got so much knowledge?
Bali-mardana: From fossils.
Prabhupāda: From bacteria? How rascals they are.
Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda, in the Bhāgavatam it also states that there are nine divisions of creation, and that in the first creation there's the plants and trees.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but these different bodies, and the soul is transmigrating, that they do not know. The soul is getting a different type of body according to his desires, not the body is developing. This I have explained many times, that you get the apartment according to the rent you are able to pay, not that a small apartment is becoming a skyscraper building. That is their theory.
Bali-mardana: But is there a great time period between the different divisions of the creation?
Prabhupāda: No. Everything is there already. It becomes manifest. Just like beneath the water there is land already. And when the water will dry, land will be manifest. Not that the land is created. No, it is already there. (break)
Gurukṛpā: . . . told us last time that actually the earth did not come out of the water, but the water receded, and this is how this Hawaii came.
Gurukṛpā: That there was water covering everything, and then the water receded, and then the land was there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, from creative method, from water, land has come.
Bali-mardana: Yes. Gross to . . . from subtle to gross.
Bali-mardana: But there are different devastations by water as well.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (japa) (break) There is a Bengali proverb, ādār vapare yahare khabor. A man is dealing with ginger. So ginger is used . . . Suppose we take ginger, a few small pieces. You cannot expect ginger selling in wagons. (laughs) Ginger is accepted—you purchase one or two pieces, that's all. So a merchant dealing in ginger is asking, "What is the fare of one big freight? I shall take ginger that." He is selling only two pieces, and he's taking information of a big freighter. Similarly, these rascals, they are dealing with small things and contemplate describing life. What about that moon expedition?
Prabhupāda: No, rocks, that is the last. Now what is the latest news?
Bali-mardana: They want to send a satellite to the other planets.
Prabhupāda: Moon finished?
Bali-mardana: Yes, it is not good for . . . It is too much money. They cannot afford it.
Gurukṛpā: It's nothing but rocks anyway there. They think it is nothing but rocks, so why waste time; go to some other place.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Grapes are sour.
Prabhupāda: Jackal. Jackal and the grapes. The grapes were high. First of all jumped, jumping. Then, when he could not get it, "This is useless. It is sour."
Manasvī: They didn't reach moon at all.
Prabhupāda: At all. Jumping, jumping, the jackal says, "Oh, it is no use. It is sour."
Manasvī: I've seen those rocks, moon rocks. They didn't seem much different than our rocks.
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is all bogus propaganda. I told it in 1968. No, no, not '68—'58, in my book, Easy Journey to Other Planets. All childish. Then I told in San Francisco in 1968, like that. They asked me, the press reporter, "What is your opinion?" "It is all useless waste of time and energy."
Bali-mardana: Now they will have to agree with you. It's so much trouble. But the thing is that the scientists will lose their jobs if they do not make people want to go to . . . useless things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But one thing is the people in general, they are so rubbish and brainless that they believe. They do not use their common sense. I am also one of the member, but I use my common sense. We have read from the Vedic literature the moon planet is influencing the vegetation in this planet—and there is no vegetation. The moon planet . . . These are explained that influencing vegetation in this planet.
Bali-mardana: Some big, big scientists, they had a convention about evolution and geology, but they made a rule at the beginning that during the convention no one could bring up the subject of divine creation or God. And then they will discuss.
Prabhupāda: Now they are going to, I mean to say, hold a convention that life is from chemicals. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara told. Japan it is going to be held. And by their resolution, it will be accepted. But they cannot create.
Bali-mardana: But I had one question. Is it possible to create a suitable environment for life to enter?
Prabhupāda: Life enters into the matter.
Prabhupāda: Life enters into the matter. Then it comes out with a particular type of body. The soul enters in the womb of the mother, and the mother gives the body. The soul comes through the semina of the father, and then the mother's ovum and father's semina mix together, creates a situation for developing a body. This is the science. Without that living entity there is no question of pregnant. Simply a mixture of matter. No, that is not possible. (boys heckling in background)
Boys: Rascals! Cheater!
Gurukṛpā: The all-American family.
Gurukṛpā: The all-American family.
Gurukṛpā: If the moon is illuminating the earth at night, then how come you have brought back dull pieces of rock? They should have also been shiny.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a common sense.
Devotee (2): Did they actually land on the moon, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Did they actually land on the moon?
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot go there. What is the question of landing? They cannot go there. It is far, far away. What you calculated? 1,600,000 miles away, up the sun planet.
Gurukṛpā: After the sun planet.
Prabhupāda: 1,600,000 miles above the sun. According to your calculation, the sun is away from this planet by 93,000,000 miles. And above that, 1,600,000 miles. Then you go to the moon. How it is possible?
Gurukṛpā: How is the moon behind the sun?
Prabhupāda: Not behind; above.
Gurukṛpā: It is a bigger planet?
Gurukṛpā: In other words, to elevate oneself to the moon planet, that is harder than going to the sun planet.
Prabhupāda: That is God's wish. "You can go up on Me? What is this?" Their calculation is that moon is nearer, is it not?
Prabhupāda: But not moon is nearer; sun is nearer. And above, in the proportion, 1,600,000 miles, above moon there is Mercury, Mars, in this way, Venus. It is not so easy.
Śrutakīrti: The planets are not orbiting the sun.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They have got their different orbits.
Gurukṛpā: This is real science, to know these facts.
Gurukṛpā: So how can you prove that?
Prabhupāda: Vedic literature. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti means Vedas. What is that? That is another island?
Devotee: That's the Kaneohe marine base.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?
Gurukṛpā: A marine base, army base.
Śrutakīrti: They have missiles.
Gurukṛpā: In these mountains, and the mountain opens, and the missile comes up. It's ready to be fired, atomic missiles. This whole island is nothing but army bases. The Japanese in the World War II, they first came here and bombed.
Prabhupāda: Pearl Harbor.
Gurukṛpā: Yeah, and this is a very good place to bomb.
Prabhupāda: This is Pearl Harbor?
Gurukṛpā: Yes, here.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Here it is? No.
Gurukṛpā: No, no, this isn't it. This is a very likely place for them to drop their bombs. There's too many marine bases. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Where is a sitting place?
Śrutakīrti: Yes, straight on there . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . introduce that "Why you are, rascal, you are introducing all this nonsense?" Let them read this. They will become human being. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They are reading only all rubbish things and becoming rubbish. Let them read these books, and their human life will be perfect. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ (SB 1.5.10): "The literature which does not give information of the glories of the Lord," tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, "it is just like the pleasure place of the crows." So these books are meant for the crows, without any right information, without any God's information. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ. The swans will not come there. The pleasure place of the crows is not meant for the swans. They have got different place. Our books are meant for swans, and all these literatures are meant for the crows.
Gurukṛpā: The trouble is is that even if we explain these things to most people, factually their only interest is how they can eat and how they can gratify their senses, and they take these other scientists up as the extracurricular activity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is said, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). "Those who have lost their identity, being," what is called, "captivated by women and . . . (indistinct) . . ., they cannot understand." Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām tayāpahṛta-cetasām. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahataḥ (SB 7.9.43). For slight, so-called happiness they are making big, big programs. Māyā. . ., bharam. Bharam means big, big projects. And sometimes they put forward their . . . (indistinct) . . . for the next generation. Now, if Darwin's theory accepted, the monkeys never thought of the next generation, so how you have got this financial . . . (indistinct) . . .? Why you are thinking of your next generation? What is the argument? The monkey cannot think that Mr. Nixon will come, become president of this or that, USA. So how he became president without your thinking of the . . . your forefathers, monkeys? So why you are thinking of your generation? Your forefathers did not.
Bali-mardana: Yes, but by Darwinism they become reduced to just animals, no better than monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is meant for the monkeys, not for any sane gentleman. Sane gentleman will think that "I have become now . . . By evolution I have come to this stage, human being. What is next?" And that is sane.
Gurukṛpā: That is a good argument.
Prabhupāda: He will think, "What is next? Is it finished here?" The rascal says, "No, after finishing, everything is finished." What is this? If there is evolution—you have come to this stage—then what is the next stage? That is natural. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Now you can go to the moon planet if you try. Moon planet, Sun planet, Venus and so many, if you become serious. And you can go to God's planet, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Now you select where will you will go. But there is future. But what is their theory? That after finishing this body, everything is finished. They do not believe in the next life.
Bali-mardana: Therefore their life must be hopeless.
Prabhupāda: Hopeless, yes. (break) Yes, you can send him to India.
Gurukṛpā: But there is no "after" here, because there is so much to plant here.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all.
Manasvī: Yesterday at night we got many plants, and this morning also we got lots of more plants, flower plants.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. But somebody may learn from him and go to India. (end).