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750204 - Lecture BG 16.08 - Honolulu

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750204BG-HONOLULU - February 04, 1975 - 39:58 Minutes

Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
jagad āhur anīśvaram
kim anyat kāma-haitukam
(BG 16.8)

(break) (02:09)

"They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust."


asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
jagad āhur anīśvaram
kim anyat kāma-haitukam
(BG 16.8)

This is the verdict of the asuras. We have discussed the characteristics of asuras for the last two days. Now, gradually, Kṛṣṇa is explaining the demonic characteristic. He has explained the divine characteristic extensively before this. Now He is explaining what are the demonic characteristic. So, nāpi cācāraḥ. They even do not know how to live nicely. That verse we have already discussed last night:

pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca
janā na vidur āsurāḥ
na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro
na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate
(BG 16.7)

Pravṛtti and nivṛtti means which one, which path, we shall take and which path we shall reject. That they do not know. And na śaucam, not cleanliness. Even ordinary things, cleanliness, that is very hygienic. That also they do not know. Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ. They do not know how to behave also. Na satyam: and no truthfulness is there. This verse we have already discussed.

Now, the next characteristic is asatyam: "This world is simply phenomenal; it has no foundation." The Māyāvādīs, they directly say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. So Māyāvādī, at least they say that "There is Brahman. He is truth. But this phenomenal world is not truth. Manifestation of material energy, that is not true." So according to our philosophy, Vaiṣṇava philosophy, we don't say that this māyā, or the . . . māyā means this temporary manifestation. This material world is fact, but it is temporary, not false. We cannot say it is false. Just like I am sitting on the seat or you are sitting on the floor. We are sitting on something. It is not false; it is fact. I am not sitting on the air. You are not sitting on the air. So how we can say it is false? No. Therefore our philosophy is . . . that is fact. One may consider. One who is philosophically inclined, he can judge the statement of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī says,

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo
phalgu vairāgyaṁ kathyate
(Brs. 1.2.256)

He says, "The material things . . ." Prapañcikā means material. So this house is material. It is made of wood, stone. So we are giving up all material connection. Then why shall we live in this house? This is material. So prapañcikata. Prapañcikā means considering something as material. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Vastu means substance or thing which has connection with Hari. This stone, wood, air, fire, water—five gross elements—it has connection with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). These eight kinds of material elements, five gross and three subtle, namely the earth, water, air, fire, sky—these are gross elements—and the subtle elements—mind, intelligence, and ego . . . so these are subtle elements. Mind is also material, and intelligence is also material, and ego, the false ego, that "I am this material body," that is also material. And above this, that is spiritual. Above this, the soul, the spirit, that is spiritual.

Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām (BG 7.5). Kṛṣṇa says, "These gross and subtle elements, they are inferior energy. That is My energy, but that is inferior energy." Itas tu . . . apareyam itas tu viddhi prakṛtiṁ me parām: "There is another, superior energy." What is that superior energy? Jīva-bhūta, the living entity. Jīva-bhūtāṁ yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). That is superior, because this superior energy, living entity, he is trying to utilize this inferior material energy for his sense gratification. Dhāryate jagat. Whole world is going on just like a motorcar. It is combination of gross material—iron, steel, copper, glass, like that, and cotton and fiber. The car is combination of some material things, but it is operated or it is manufactured by the man. He is controlling this; therefore he is superior. Both of them are energies. The superior energy, living entity, is managing how to collect this iron, copper, this, that, and make nice car. And he is riding on. And this material supply is given by the material energy. The intelligence is given by Kṛṣṇa.

Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ (BG 15.15): "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "From Me he's getting the intelligence." So if you analyze the whole thing, the manufacturer of the car and the car itself and the ingredients of the car, the platform on which the car is running—everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the ultimate analysis. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says that in everything there is relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. So why shall I reject it? I am concerned with Hari, Kṛṣṇa; therefore anything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, I am also interested. Property of Kṛṣṇa, things of Kṛṣṇa . . . we are taking care of this house. Why? Because it is temple. What is temple? Temple means Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but because we have got now our limited knowledge—we are not advanced—therefore we take a spot, the temple, and always think of Kṛṣṇa, that "This is Kṛṣṇa's place. This is Kṛṣṇa's temple. We must take care of it." Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mār janādau (Gurv-aṣṭaka 3). These are the process of devotional service, that we worship the Deity, śrī-vigraha, nicely dressed, nicely worshiped, first-class food offered. This is called śrī-vigrahārādhana, worshiping, arcanam. Arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). Tan-mandira-mārjanādau, and again cleansing the temple very nicely everywhere. So this is our process - that we take everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. We don't find that this material energy is false. We don't say.

But the asuras, those who have no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, they say asatyam: "This is all false." Why it is false? If the source of energy is fact, brahma satya, then the energy of the satya must be satya. If the cause is fact, then the effect is also fact. Just like cotton. If cotton is fact, then the thread is also fact. How you can say that thread is false and cotton is fact? That is not possible. If the cotton is fact, then the thread, effect of cotton, that is also fact. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says that prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ (Brs. 1.2.256). Anything which has got connection with Hari, Kṛṣṇa, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ. Mumukṣu, those who are aspiring after liberation, mumuk . . . mokṣa. The Māyāvādīs, they are aspiring after mukti. Mukti. A devotee does not care for mukti. Mukti's not very important thing for them because, actually, one who is pure devotee, he's already mukta, liberated. He doesn't care for mukti. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā that,

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

"Anyone who is engaged in My devotional service without any adulteration, pure . . ." Pure devotional service means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11): no other desire, no duplicity, pure—"I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, and it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa," not "I am serving Kṛṣṇa with a motive. As soon as I get the opportunity, I shall utilize." That is not pure devotion. Pure devotion means without any motive: "Kṛṣṇa is my Lord. I am His eternal servant. It is my duty to serve"—no motive. That is pure devotion. So if one is on the platform of devotional service, māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate (BG 14.26). Anyone who is serving Kṛṣṇa without any motive, without any alloy—pure devotional service—he's already liberated. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītya etān.

Liberation means not to be under the influence of the modes of material nature, not to be infected by the modes of material nature, especially passion and ignorance. That is mukti. Mukti is not very wonderful thing. It is difference of consciousness. Everyone is conscious materially: "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." This is one consciousness. And when this consciousness is purified, tat-paratvena nirmalam . . . nirmalam means completely cleanse. That is the bhakti platform. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one becomes purified completely from all this designation . . . the body is designation. So according to the body, we are placed in different designation: "I am human being," "I am cat," "I am dog," "I am demigod," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya"—so many designations. So bhakti platform is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11).

Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not a kṣatriya. I am not a vaiśya. I am not a śūdra," because the material human society designation is the varṇāśrama according to Vedic civilization. Even those who are not on the varṇāśrama platform, they are animals. That is Vedic civilization. So to come to the platform of truth, one has to know what are the defects of material life, how it is taken by the asuras. That is being described by Kṛṣṇa, asatyam, asatyam apratiṣṭham, apratiṣṭhaṁ te. Te means these asuras. Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). It is controlled by the Supreme.

In the material stage we think that it is being controlled by the laws of material nature. That is also fact. But behind the laws of material nature there is Kṛṣṇa. The material laws of material nature is not working blindly. That is a fact. Combination of material thing, a big, nice airship, is moving. It is combination of material things. There are iron, aluminium, wood and petrol, so many other things, the combination of material things. But this combination of material things, if it is kept in one place, in many thousands of years it will not fly. It will not fly—the petrol is here; everything is there—unless the pilot is there. When the pilot comes, he pushes the button. Then it becomes.

So these foolish, these atheistic persons, mūḍhas, they cannot see: there must be a spiritual touch. In spite of all electronic arrangement, unless there is a spiritual . . . the pilot is spiritual being. Unless he touches his finger, it is not moving. So how this gigantic material manifestation can work independently? They have no sense. Therefore they say, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Anīśvaram: "There is no pilot. It is moving automatically." This is asuric conclusion. How it can move? Where is your experience that simply combination of material thing can move the machine? Where is your experience? How do you say like that? It is very common sense. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said these rascals, these demons, they say, jagad āhur anīśvaram: "There is no controller." He's thinking, the scientist thinking, he's practically doing in the laboratory, that he is a spiritual soul. He is mixing the chemicals, hydrogen, oxygen, acid and alkaline. He's mixing, and there is reaction. Then something is coming out. He's doing that. Still, he says, "There is no God." What is this foolishness? Why do they say like that? Therefore they are asuras. They do not admit the existence.

Big, big chemist . . . recently there is a book, Chemical Evolution. He wants to prove it, that by combination of chemicals the life has come in. That is not the fact. The fact is, life has come from life. You cannot manufacture life by combination of chemical. Chemical comes from life. In our book . . . what is that book?

Devotee: Life Comes From Life.

Prabhupāda: Life Comes From Life. I have given this reason, that even though you think that chemical combination brings the living force, but the chemical is coming from life. Just like citric acid. The citric acid we see practically. There is a tree, lemon tree. This is life. The lemon tree is life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā (Padma Purāṇa). They are sthāvara life, non-moving life, but it is life. So from an insignificant lemon tree, tons of citric acid is coming. You have got experience. This lemon means citric acid. This chemical is coming from life. Without the tree, you cannot get this chemical, citric acid. From . . . sometimes you have got experience: the perspiration is water, is coming from my body. The body is active so long I am there. So how you can say the chemical is coming from matter? No. Chemical is coming from life. Even if you accept that life is combination of chemicals, then chemical also coming from life.

So therefore life is the original source of everything, both matter and life. The body is coming from life, and the soul is coming from life, the supreme life, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7): "These living entity, they are part and parcel of Me." So Kṛṣṇa is the supreme life. Therefore He says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So Kṛṣṇa is the source of both life and matter. There are two energies. One is superior energy; another, it is inferior energy. The material elements, they are inferior energy, and the superior energy—jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). So how you can say jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8)? How you can say that without the control of the Supreme Lord this material world has come into being? There is no sufficient reasoning.

They say because they are not very intelligent. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says mūḍha. Mūḍha. That is stated in the Seventh Chapter. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are duṣkṛtina . . . duṣkṛtina means very intelligent, but the intelligence is being misused in mischief-mongering. They are called duṣkṛtina. Kṛti. Kṛti means very nice brain, but duṣkṛti—the brain is used for creating misgivings. They will explain like that. But we should be very much careful not to become their victim. So although the atheists say there is no God, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8), but we are convinced that God is the origin—janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1)—of both matter and spirit.

So aparaspara-sambhūtam (BG 16.8), they simply explain that it is the result of combination only. Just like acid and alkali combine together. Just like soap. Soap is combination of acid and alkali The caustic soda is alkali, and the fat is acid. So you mix this acid and alkali—there is another product. This is chemical science. So the acid and alkali, they also come from the, I mean to say, life. Or if it does not come from the life, the product is made by another life. Acid and alkali does not mix together. Unless the chemist or the soap-maker brings them together and mixes, the soap does not come. So how you can say that the chemical combination is the source of life? No, that is not possible. This is right conclusion.

But these rascals, they conclude like that. Aparaspara-sambhūtam: "By combination of two or more material things produces another third or fourth thing." Aparaspara-sambhūtam, kim anyat kāma-haitukam (BG 16.8). They give example. This is the atheistic Sāṅkhya philosophy, atheistic Sāṅkhya philosophy: combination, permutation. But the example is given, kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Kāma. Just like a man and woman becomes lusty and their combination brings forth a child, a third matter. They think like that. They are thinking everything is matter. No. There is good brain within the combination. That is explained in the Vedic literature. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). This body is not coming accidentally by the sex intercourse. That is not the fact. The fact is karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. Otherwise, why the same kind of body is not coming by material combination and permutation? Why there are different types of body? Why there is rich body? Why there is poor body? Why there is cat body? Why is dog body? Why there are varieties? That they cannot answer.

If you say that "Simply by combination of matter the secretion of the man and woman emulsify and takes another shape, and that secretion, discharge of matter, is due to lust," that is all right. But unless there is the living spark, soul, within that material combination, there is no pregnancy. The pregnancy will take place when there is actually living soul within this material creation, material combination, emulsification. That is the knowledge we get from Vedic sources. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). Jantuḥ, the living entity, is getting a type of body by the karma. It is not simply lusty combination. Because the living entity has got his karma, therefore one is born as Mr. Ford, and one is born something else. It is due to karma. Otherwise, why he's born one rich and poor? There must be some consideration.

So that they do not find. They do not . . . they have no eyes to see. They simply see the superfluous combination, permutation. No. That superintendence is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). The Bhāgavata also says daiva-netreṇa. Daiva-netreṇa means "under the leadership of the Supreme." As soon as one dies, gives up this body—he does not die; he changes the body—now, the next body . . . here is a duration of changing body. Say for a hundred years the changing is going on. Then, after that, when he changes this body, then there is daiva-netreṇa, the judgment: "What kind of body should be awarded this living entity." That is called daiva-netreṇa. And when it is decided that "He has done such and such thing; therefore he should be promoted," "He has done such and such thing; he should be degraded," "He has done such and such thing; therefore he should go back to home, back to Godhead"—all these judgments are taken. Then he's offered.

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

There is the judgment, supreme judgment: "He has done like this. All right, let him be promoted in the heavenly planet." He goes there. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Ābrahma-loka. The highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, he can go. That is also required superior judgment, what he has done for being promoted. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhiḥ (SB 1.8.26). Janma, to take birth in high-class family, to become very rich—they are not accidental. There is background, daiva-netreṇa, by the superior judgment. There are so many things to be learned. Simply to become blind, without any knowledge, and give some verdict, asatyam, that is nonsense. That is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa is guiding us. Don't be victims of these rascals. Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is God. There is supreme controller. And God says, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10): "Under My superintendence."

The material power is very gigantic, undoubtedly. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). This material energy is called Durgā. Durgā means . . . duḥ means very difficult. When we are within this material world it is very, very difficult to get out of it. You see the sky is covering the whole material universe, and there are different layers. It is not so . . . you cannot go even to the nearest planet. Durgā, very difficult. You cannot . . . you are conditioned soul. You cannot go. You are thinking, "I have got now, discovered this." It is not discovered. The aeroplane was long, long ago. So you cannot go. That is our conditional life. They are trying to go to the moon planet, unsuccessful. They cannot go. Therefore we are conditioned. I am conditioned to live on this planet. I cannot go to other planet without permission. It is common sense. Just like India. One cannot come to America without proper visa. So how you can go to the other planet without proper visa? So they do not think. That is, therefore, asuras, demons. They are simply thinking that they are perfect, they can do everything. That is not possible. That is not possible.

Therefore a devotee knows how to do things. He knows not automatically, but he learns from the spiritual master, the representative of God. Then he becomes perfect. Otherwise asura. Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7). The asuras, they do not know what is cleanliness, what is proper behavior. That is the asuric quality. So we have explained: by asuric quality we remain conditioned with this material world. But daivī qual . . . by divine quality, we can become free from this material bondage and go back to home, back to Godhead. So these things are very elaborately explained in this chapter, Sixteenth Chapter. So let us know who is demon and who is divine.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya . . . (end)