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740629 - Morning Walk - Melbourne

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

740629MW-MELBOURNE - June 29, 1974 - 14:33 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . in the beautiful tomb. Then how do you go? Either hell or heaven, that doesn't matter. So how do you go there?

Madhudviṣa: They say that the material body and the soul join back together again at the end.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: They say that the material body and the soul join back together again.

Prabhupāda: That is dehāntara-prāpti, another body.

Madhudviṣa: No, they say same body.

Prabhupāda: Same body means same material body. The form may be different. The form is actually different, because this form is lying in your tomb. It is not going. Where that . . . if it has gone, then why the body is here? That is dehāntara, another body. How you can say the same body? The same body is lying here. After death, if the same body is going, then why the same body is not going? Why it is lying here? They must be reasonable, not dogmatic. How it is same body?

Satsvarūpa: I don't understand their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Here nonsense. Same body, how can you? The body is here.

Madhudviṣa: The body is rotting in the tomb, and then they say that the body at the end of the creation is reconstructed and reunited with the soul.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but not this body. Reconstruct.

Madhudviṣa: That they say this body.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. This body, you can say this is material body, that is also material body. But not this body. Just like you change your cloth. The other cloth also made of cotton, and this is also made of cotton. In the same way, you can say: "The same body," cotton body or dress. But you cannot say that this cloth or this dhotī is going with you. How they can say? This body is lying here. "This body" means this material body.

Madhudviṣa: They will say: "Some things you cannot understand. You must simply accept on faith."

Prabhupāda: "You cannot understand"—that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept? They will say "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means . . . this is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days . . ."

Satsvarūpa: Naked. Naked, too.

Prabhupāda: Naked. This is hellish. (japa) (dog barking) Now this, another hellish life. (laughing) His only business is to bark. The master may like to keep a dog, but if he is said that, "You also become a dog," he'll not agree. Eh? Will he agree?

Madhudviṣa: But whether he agrees or not, he will become one, if he is too much attached. (break) . . . the chief engineer of building the chariots, and all of these people are his assistants.

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha will be very much pleased upon you. Yes. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt (BG 2.40). Little service to God is taken as great service. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. So we should try always to give the best service, best energy, and you become liberated. Actually we cannot give any service to Kṛṣṇa. He is unlimited. What is the value of our service? But He takes it seriously, "Oh, he is trying to give Me some service." Otherwise what service He needs from us? Suppose He has created this big universe. What service we can give? By His will, He can create millions of universes. What service we can give Him? No. These are the chances of service, this Ratha-yātrā. God is so great, so big, how we can pack up in the ratha? But this is a chance, that you get Him sit on the ratha and prepare it, manufacture it. Because your energy is engaged for His service, that is accepted.

So this example . . . just like a small child eating lozenges, and out of that, if he offers father, "Father, take it," and father takes it very serious . . . "Ah, very nice." And what is that lozenges to the father? It is nothing. But because the child offers to the father in love, father takes it very seriously, "Oh, you are so nice. Yes, yes. Give me." That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26): "A leaf, a fruit, a little water." What is the value of these? But yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, "Because he is giving Me in faith and devotion, I accept it." And what is this one piece of leaf and a fruit for God? It is nothing. He is being served by many thousands of goddess of fortune. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānam. Then what is this value of this leaf and flower and fruit? But still, He says, tad aham aśnāmi, "Yes, I eat them." And once God eats from your hand, then your life is successful.

Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ (Padma Purāṇa). The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood, this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish consideration. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master; nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brahmin Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that . . ." No. These are forbidden.

Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master . . . they are all transcendental. In . . . of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India . . . just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply . . .

Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that, "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt. This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is, "Stop this animal killing." Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mūḍha. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain, but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duṣkṛtina. Kṛtī, kṛtī means good brain, and duṣkṛtī means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mūḍha. In spite of good brain, they are rascal, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals. Brain is being used for this purpose. Any animal can be killed with ordinary knife, but they're manufacturing latest machinery. Their brain, rascal brain, is being used for that purpose. And what they will understand? They are preparing their road for going to hell. What they will understand about spiritual matters? Nature will not excuse. That is not possible. (break)

That is sufficient for your being killed. Yes, sir. Where from these laws come unless there is God laws? Everyone will be killed. They are thinking that "We are not going to slaughterhouse to kill. They kill; we purchase." The Buddhist says like that. Everyone says like that. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, those animal-eaters, they should kill them personally, so that they can see how much suffering is there, so he will stop. But now the things are being done in the slaughterhouse. They do not see. They purchase very nicely packed. They do not know. And they are becoming implicated. Therefore according to Vedic injunction, if you want to eat meat, you kill yourself in your front, in the front of Goddess Kālī, so that the animal will get next life as human being. He is promoted immediately. He hasn't got to go to the evolutionary process. He gets immediately. And it is given right that "After you get human form of . . . you can kill this person." You see? This is the process of bali-dāna, mantra and everything. (break) . . . regulation that . . . that is not cow. An insignificant animal, goat . . . (break) (end)