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740531 - Lecture BG 04.10 at Maison de Faubourg - Geneva

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

740531BG-GENEVA - May 31, 1974 - 49:37 Minutes

Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ
bahavo jñāna-tapasā
pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ
(BG 4.10)

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Nitāi: Translation: "Being freed from attachment, fear and anger, being fully absorbed in Me and taking refuge in Me, many, many persons in the past became purified by knowledge of Me, and thus they attained transcendental love for Me."

Prabhupāda: (translated into French throughout)

man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ
bahavo jñāna-tapasā
pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ
(BG 4.10)

This is a verse in Sanskrit spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Fourth Chapter, verse number ten. Vīta-rāga means "Freed from attachment." Bhaya means fearfulness, and krodha means anger. So being freed from these material qualities. In the material existence, at the present moment, we are very much attached to the material enjoyment. That is called rāga. And if we cannot fulfill our desire, then there is krodha, anger. And accompanied by krodha and attachment, there is always a tendency of fearfulness. So Kṛṣṇa says . . . "Kṛṣṇa" means . . . when I speak Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means the all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead. So man-mayā, when one becomes attached to God, giving up the attachment of this material sense pleasure, when one becomes . . . attachment must be there, either this way or that way. If we do not become attached to the Supreme Being, then we must be attached to this material enjoyment. Therefore it is said vīta-rāga, "Giving up the attachment of this material world, when you transfer your attachment to Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Being," man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ . . . upāśrita means "taking shelter of Me." Unless you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, there is no possibility of being detached from this material enjoyment. Bahavaḥ. Bahavaḥ means many. Jñāna-tapasā: by knowledge and austerities. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā.

(to translator) Explain. Pūtā. Pūtā means purified. Jñāna-tapasā, purified. Pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ: "They come to My nature."

Mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. There are two natures. Just like you can understand, you are combination of two nature, the material nature and the spiritual nature. This gross body is material nature. It is made of earth, fire, water, air, ether, and mind, intelligence and ego. And the spiritual nature is yourself, the spirit soul, the living force, which is sustaining these material bodies. So both these natures, the material nature and the spiritual nature, they are different energies of God. Just like the fire has got two energies, namely, the heat and light, similarly, God has got two nature. One is called material nature, and the other is called spiritual nature.

So this cosmic manifestation which we experience is combination of material nature and spiritual nature. The material nature is called inferior nature, and the spiritual nature is called the superior nature. The material nature is inferior because the superior nature living entity controls over it. We have got experience: Just like a big machine, computer, or any other machine, it is combination of matter, but it cannot work independently until and unless there is touch of the spiritual nature, a human being. The big airplane is floating in the . . . (break) . . . I mean to say, mechanical arrangement. But unless there is the pilot, it cannot work. Similarly, you try to understand that this material nature, cosmic manifestation, however wonderful it may be, unless there is direction of the Supreme Being, it is useless. So if you have understood the difference between material nature and the spiritual nature, then try to understand that as you have got experience of this material nature, there is another nature, another sky, another planetary system—everything another—that is all made of spiritual nature.

So that spiritual nature is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. You will get information. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That nature is called sanātana. Sanātana means eternal. As we have got this body—your body, my body, or anyone's body—it is temporary, similarly, this material nature is temporary. Temporary means it has a beginning, it stays for some time, then it transforms, then it becomes old and it vanquishes. The spiritual nature, however, is different from this nature. The spiritual nature has no beginning, neither it has end. That is called sanātana, eternal. We living entities, we belong to that spiritual nature. Therefore about us it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "The spiritual spirit soul is never born, neither dies at any time." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is further described that, "This spiritual spark, which you are, I am, it is . . ." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: "When the body is destroyed, the spiritual spark, that does not destroy. That remains eternal."

So it is a great science to understand what is that spiritual nature and what is this material nature, and we have published about eighty books of four hundred pages each for understanding what is this material nature and what is the spiritual nature. So at the present moment, the people, the whole human society, is missing this knowledge of spiritual nature. Therefore they are attached to this material nature, and here is a formula how we can become detached to this material nature and come to our original nature, spiritual nature. We are traveling all over the world, but there is no university, no institution, no school, no college where the education of spiritual nature is imparted. There is none. The greatest scientist, philosopher, they see that a man . . . a great scientist, great philosopher, they are working very nicely, but as soon as that spiritual nature is gone, this material nature body is useless.

So on the whole, this great knowledge is missing at the present moment in the human society. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is specifically meant for educating people about the spirit soul. It is not a sectarian religion. It is a science. Don't take it as a type of religion. It is a course of education which is understandable by the human society, not by the cats and dogs. If I call a dog, "Please come here, read this book," how he will understand spiritual nature? It is not possible for him. But if I call a human being and I ask him, and if he agrees to understand what is spiritual nature, it is possible. That is the difference between dog and a man. A dog cannot understand what is spiritual nature, but a man can understand. Therefore the conclusion is if in this human form of life we do not take advantage of understanding what is our spiritual nature, then we are no better than the dog. It is an opportunity given by the nature or by God to understand this human form of life. We should not miss this opportunity. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. God is personally giving you the information what is the material nature, what is the spiritual nature, how you can transfer yourself to the spiritual nature, and then you come to your original, constitutional position.

Our original position is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. The Supreme Being, Kṛṣṇa, or God, is also sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. He has His transcendental form of eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. So the Supreme Lord, or Supreme Being, is also vigraha. Vigraha means form. As you are form, I am form, similarly, God is also form. He is not formless. So that is described in the Vedic literatures.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
(Bs. 5.1)

"The Supreme Being, who is called Kṛṣṇa, or all-attractive, He has His body of eternity, full of knowledge and blissfulness." Now, compare your this body. This body is not eternal; it is temporary. It is born at a certain date and it will be finished at a certain date. Therefore it is not eternal. Neither this body is full of knowledge. It is full of ignorance. If I ask you how many hairs you have got on your head, you do not know. Similarly, we have got this body. I am claiming my body, but I am not in full knowledge of my own body, and what to speak of knowing your body or other's body. Not only body—the mind, intelligence and ego. What is going on in your mind, I do not know; neither you know what is going on in my mind. We are so ignorant. Therefore this body is temporary and full of ignorance. And what to speak of blissfulness? It is always miserable. Here, because we have got this body, we suffer the pains of cold and heat. This is only one example. It is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Śīta means cold. Just like in winter we suffer. In summer also, we suffer. Both seasons, we suffer. So why we suffer? Because we have got this temporary material body. And therefore Kṛṣṇa says:

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
āgamāpāyino 'nityās
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
(BG 2.14)

The idea is that we should not be disturbed by these material miseries, which come and go like this change of season. It is not permanent. At the present moment, the whole human civilization is simply disturbed by the change of this cold and heat. Our all activities are there—how to stop this miserable condition of the body, which is impossible to stop. So if we simply become affected by the miserable condition . . . the miserable condition in the material world must be there. You cannot stop this miserable condition of material existence. It will come and go away. It will simply disturb you. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ (BG 2.56): one has to be detached from this coming and going, miserable condition of material existence. And how it is possible? That is also said, man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ: "One has to be absorbed in My thought and has to take My shelter." The jñāna means knowledge. Knowledge means one must know that "I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, I have been entangled in this material body."

So we have to cure this disease, material disease, accepting this material body. Our real problem, which is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam . . .
(BG 13.9)

Our real problem is that we are accepting a material body, and after some days, we are giving up the present material body, and we are accepting another material body. How we are accepting different bodies? That you have got experience. Just like you, I, both of us had a small child's body. That is now gone. The boy's body is now gone. The youthful body is now gone. Now I have got a different body. But I know that I had such-and-such body. Similarly, when this body will be useless, I cannot use it, I will have to accept another body. That we have got experience daily, in day and night. When we sleep at night, although we have got this body lying on my bed, I accept another body, subtle body, and I go to another place and dream. Similarly, at night, when I give up that subtle body which took me far away from my bed, again I come and accept this material body and wake up.

Death means to leave this body and carried by the subtle body to another gross body. That is called death. We are carried by the mind, intelligence and ego, subtle body. Just like we can experience a good scent of rose flower is carried by the air—we cannot see, but we know that the flavor is being carried by the air—similarly, although we do not see how the spirit soul is being carried by the subtle body, but it is being carried, and it is being put into the womb of another mother to develop another gross body. So this body is offered by nature. This body is given by the material nature. Similarly, we, or I, the spirit soul, being carried by the subtle body, and the nature is giving me another gross body. In this way we are transmigrating from one body to another. This is called evolution. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies, and we are going through one after another.

So this human form of body is the only chance that we can stop this transmigration of transferring ourself from one body to another and come to our spiritual body. This process is described here as pūtā, purification, existentional purification. That is called pūtā. Just like when you are infected by some disease, you have to purify yourself after the infection and you come to your normal health, similarly, by knowledge and purificatory method, if you come to your spiritual knowledge and spiritual platform, then your life is successful.

So the purificatory process, we are taking the essence of all Vedic literatures, that four principle, namely: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating and no gambling. This is called tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some inconvenience. That is called tapasya. Suppose I am accustomed to smoke or to drink. If I give it up, there will be certainly little inconvenience, but for the better cause, I have to suffer voluntarily. That is called tapasya. Nobody will die if he does not get facility for illicit sex or enjoying intoxicants and meat-eating. Nobody will die. All the members of Kṛṣṇa conscious Society, they have given up. But for that reason we are not dying. It is not difficult. Simply we have to accept in the beginning there may be little inconvenience, but when you come to the platform, there is no inconvenience. So if we actually want to be cured from this diseased condition of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, we have to abstain from this sinful life.

So it is not difficult. It requires little knowledge. As it is said, jñāna-tapasā, little knowledge and little austerities. Then you become purified, and mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ, you can go to the spiritual nature, the kingdom of God. I think this process is not at all difficult, and all the ladies and gentlemen who have come here will accept this process and make his life perfect.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Any question?

Dhanañjaya: There's a microphone . . .

Devotee: Anyone has a question?

Translator: (translating question from French lady) Jesus Christ . . . it is said that he made the miracle of the fish and ate. So why is it that one should not eat meat?

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said: "You shall not kill." Why you are killing?

Translator: But then why did he eat fish?

Prabhupāda: He can eat the whole world, but you cannot do that. You must follow his instruction, "Thou shall not kill." You must have discrimination. You are human being, you are not cats and dog. You must have discrimination, what to eat, what to not eat. Because we have to eat some other living entity, it does not mean that I shall eat my sons and daughters. "Discrimination is the best part of valor." So far we are concerned, we are eating certainly vegetable, but not directly. We eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26): "Anyone who offers Me with love and affection vegetables, grains, milk, I eat." So if there is any sin for eating vegetables, that is Kṛṣṇa's sin, not our sin. We take the prasādam. We are teaching people to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. We are not teaching people to become vegetarian or nonvegetarian. That is not our business. After all, we have to eat, so if we eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam . . . that is stated, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ: "If you accept prasādam which is offered to God, then you are free from all sinful resultant action."

Translator: (translating question from French man) How can one serve Kṛṣṇa in daily life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). Kṛṣṇa says: "Whatever you do," yat karoṣi, "it doesn't matter what you are doing." Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam: "The result you give Me." Now, suppose you are working, you are getting, say, hundred dollars. You give it to Kṛṣṇa, that is service. The practical example is that these European, American boys, they are all qualified, but they have dedicated their life to Kṛṣṇa. They are working, and we are collecting also thousands and thousand of dollars daily, but we are spending for Kṛṣṇa. This is service. You can see by their practical example. They can earn daily hundreds of dollars, but they are not demanding any very comfortable place to sit down or to lie down or to have some palatable dishes. Whatever is Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, they are accepting, and they are living in any condition of life. So far I am concerned, I am Indian. I may be coming from a poor country. But they are not coming from poor country. From their childhood they are accustomed to all comforts of life. How they have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa? That is practical example.

So the point is when one learns how to love Kṛṣṇa, how to serve Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes detached from all material comforts. That is explained, vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ (BG 4.10). If you accept Kṛṣṇa . . . we are serving. We cannot do without serving. But we are serving our senses. So instead of serving our senses, if we serve the senses of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection of life. So you learn how to serve the senses of Kṛṣṇa, you'll be happy. That's all. All right, any other question? (pause)

Then let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, there is question. One question, all right.

Translator: This gentleman says that real wisdom is not manifested by any exterior show, and that it is interior, and the real sage cannot be seen.

Prabhupāda: Cannot be seen? Then why you are taking education, taking degrees? Why you are appearing for examination in the university for degrees? It . . . you cannot be seen? If you are actually qualified in something, it must be manifested. Otherwise, everyone will say that, "I am quite qualified, but you cannot see." What is this? How I shall distinguish between the qualified and the nonqualified? The qualification must be seen. That is the conclusion. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please join with us.

Shall I chant? All right. (break) (end)